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How can you dictate something when you have no idea how it works?

Because policy isn't based on technology it is based on societal goals.

Take this mandate as an example. Currently that is impossible. However, if this is pushed, then Apple has a choice of making it possible or not doing business in the country.
 
Because policy isn't based on technology it is based on societal goals.

Take this mandate as an example. Currently that is impossible. However, if this is pushed, then Apple has a choice of making it possible or not doing business in the country.
That’s fine, but how do you expect politicians to make good choices when they don’t understand something. It’s like me making rules about a car. Now if I never used one, know nothing about them, how can I make a rule/laws? I can make a rule “a car can’t weigh no more than 10 pounds and can’t have an motor no more than a 5 horse power”.

Most of these poltians are old enough to remember stuff written on stone tablets.
 
That’s fine, but how do you expect politicians to make good choices when they don’t understand something. It’s like me making rules about a car. Now if I never used one, know nothing about them, how can I make a rule/laws? I can make a rule “a car can’t weigh no more than 10 pounds and can’t have an motor no more than a 5 horse power”.

Most of these poltians are old enough to remember stuff written on stone tablets.

Understanding the underlying technology it is irrelevant.

They want access to information. They will pass a law to compel companies to allow access to that information.
The mechanics behind it is 100% irrelevant to their goals.
 
If I remember correctly part of Google pulling out in China was China pushing them out to make room for native companies to control the local market.

I think Apple and Google should stand their ground. Then when 97% of Australians don’t have a phone that works correctly they’ll be pretty unhappy. It would probably take years for competition to swoop in and save the day.
 
Understanding the underlying technology it is irrelevant.

They want access to information. They will pass a law to compel companies to allow access to that information.
The mechanics behind it is 100% irrelevant to their goals.
How is it irrelevant? There is no such thing as only the good guys having access. Once the good guys have access, it’s only a matter of time for the bad guys to get it too. Then the bad guys gets the politicians/world secrets info (may not be a bad idea...) and we have a bigger problem.

This is why they need to understand technology.
 
"of suspected criminals" = of technically still innocent people until proven otherwise..

The switch to "guilty until proven innocent" should never be seen as a good thing by anyone..
 
They don't understand what encryption means. It means no one has access to the data, except its owner. Not even Apple has access to the data on your iPhone. And in Internxt, data is not hosted by any individual server, it's encrypted, then broken into bits, and distributed among thousands of servers, so it cannot be accessed or taken down. Good luck fighting it.
 
I'm not sure what the market is here in Australia, but it can't be massive. Heck a lot of people I see here are using old old old phones . A lot of the electronic shops don't seem to sell much if anything apple related.
 
I'm not sure what the market is here in Australia, but it can't be massive. Heck a lot of people I see here are using old old old phones . A lot of the electronic shops don't seem to sell much if anything apple related.

Apple has a pretty big market share in Australia, but we have a relatively small population.
 
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How is it irrelevant? There is no such thing as only the good guys having access. Once the good guys have access, it’s only a matter of time for the bad guys to get it too. Then the bad guys gets the politicians/world secrets info (may not be a bad idea...) and we have a bigger problem.

This is why they need to understand technology.

You seem to be arguing something totally different. You are arguing that this new Australian law is bad policy. The OP is arguing that just because something is bad policy, it doesn't mean the government can't implement. You are absolutely right that this law is poor policy. However, the Australian government is still allowed to pass bad laws.
 
They don't understand what encryption means. It means no one has access to the data, except its owner. Not even Apple has access to the data on your iPhone. And in Internxt, data is not hosted by any individual server, it's encrypted, then broken into bits, and distributed among thousands of servers, so it cannot be accessed or taken down. Good luck fighting it.

So it juat means data now need unencrypted... Simple is that.
 
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I don’t know how big of a market Australia is to these companies, but seeing them all pull out of the country over this would send quite a message.
Amazon is halting sales to Australia* next month due to a (different) law change. The Australian market isn't huge on a global scale, so Amazon's chosen to take the easy way out. It'll be interesting to see whether this encryption law causes other companies to act similarly.

*Amazon.com.au will continue to work, but Amazon.com, Amazon.co.uk etc will no longer ship to Australia. The local site apparently doesn't have a very good selection, so a lot of people are up in arms about it.
 
Sure they can try.. lol
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I believe there is a special version of iOS for China, and I know some other countries have specific laws that Apple makes special versions to comply with (for example I once bought a used iPhone that originally was from Korea and apparently there Apple has to make it so you can not turn off the camera shutter sound, and they comply) so I would think it would work. Unless of course you are referring to my suggestion that if they comply they include a pop up warning users that their data is not secure, that is something the government could ban.

That's the Japanese one, its hardly an architecture change, just a default sound being silent lol.
 
I love when politicians that have no clue how tech works propose these kind of laws.

Oh that this were true! While not a techie, the Australian Prime Minister funded one of the first ISPs in the country. He thinks he's a tech genius, rapidly passing laws to GIVE away government collected data to ANYONE who wants it.

He know what's what, and that actually makes him MORE dangerous. If you think an ignorant politician can be manipulated, when they know how tech works, it makes them positively Machiavellian. They know how to turn anything to their advantage, and (naive, optimistic & trusting) tech delivers them a hand grenade on a plate - and they're gonna use to to blow themselves and all of us to smithereens!

The Australian Prime Minister is already on record as saying he doesn't care about the laws of physics, in Australia we follow Australian law! It would be funny if he weren't serious and the consequences diabolical.

What is going on here is the Hillary Clinton line of - we want access, tech companies say it can't be done safely "I'm sure we can work something out". Just do it for us and tell your customers you haven't, like the telephone companies have been doing for 80 years. The golden POLITICAL solution.

Just as we hear daily about more tech companies abusing the data they've TAKEN from their customers, politicians are rubbing their hands with glee about how cheaply the population hands over their personal data, identity and more… about themselves and everyone they know, including their children!

Wake up people, just because you can, doesn't mean you should! Personal privacy starts with you, not your tech company!!
 
"It's not appropriate to have a world where we can do this for analogue data, analogue communication...

I agree. The ability to spy on citizens has always been ****ed up.

Technology dosesnt dictate policy.
Policy dictates technology.
How technology “works” is 100% irrelevant and technology can always be changed to keep up with policy.

If policy dictated technology, then it would take 3 years for every .1 software update to be released. Governments are full of bloated, power hungry yet inept individuals. You don't want policy dictating technology, otherwise our current devices would be at the DMV level of efficiency.

Regarding the topic in general, it's fairly interesting to see how these various countries think they can write policy and expect the world to have to cater to their specific desires (GDPR, I'm looking at you). A bit of an effect from the world being so connected now, but honestly, it's not my country. The major companies of the world are American. Which Australian company has managed to be a global leader? Any of them? The country should **** off if their politicians want stupid rules. Their economy doesn't add anything, they shouldn't have any leverage dictating how other country's companies conduct their business.
 
Amazon is halting sales to Australia* next month due to a (different) law change. The Australian market isn't huge on a global scale, so Amazon's chosen to take the easy way out. It'll be interesting to see whether this encryption law causes other companies to act similarly.

*Amazon.com.au will continue to work, but Amazon.com, Amazon.co.uk etc will no longer ship to Australia. The local site apparently doesn't have a very good selection, so a lot of people are up in arms about it.

I think we’re at a point where people and companies are finally tired of being pushed around by the governments. It’s a delicate balance being able to encourage free market and political shifts. With a global economy the money can be made elsewhere.
 
How is it irrelevant? There is no such thing as only the good guys having access. Once the good guys have access, it’s only a matter of time for the bad guys to get it too. Then the bad guys gets the politicians/world secrets info (may not be a bad idea...) and we have a bigger problem.

This is why they need to understand technology.

Its a cost/benefit and the benefit outweighs the cost according to Australia.
 
Technology dosesnt dictate policy.
Policy dictates technology.
How technology “works” is 100% irrelevant and technology can always be changed to keep up with policy.

What?

So if a legislator wants all future cars to fly, technologists "can be changed to keep up" with such new policy?

Technology is what's possible. Policy is what reigns it in. Sometimes, policy is misguided and over the top; sometimes, it doesn't go far enough; sometimes, it's just right. But in none of those cases does policy make technology happen, especially not when it's clearly uninformed.
 
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