Australian Regulators Targeting Apple Over '4G' Marketing Claims on New iPad

[babyj]

The keyword is upto 4g. Clear as day. And they're not in "trouble". They're about in as much trouble as they were when cr said the ipad overheats.

Chicken little scenario. It'll blow over in a week, and we'll have a new thing that is supposed to spell the end for Apple.

Did you actually read what this thread is about? They are already in trouble with regulators in Australia and it's likely other countries will follow.

Here's a page from Apple UK;

http://www.apple.com/uk/ipad/4g/

They've got 4G in the url and in big letters at the top of the page. Then tiny print at the bottom saying it might not actually have 4G in your country. Why are they even mentioning 4G on a UK page when the iPad they are selling will never provide a 4G service in the UK?

Who said anything about it being the end for Apple? They'll simply end up having to rewrite their marketing material the same as they have on numerous other occasions for making misleading claims. Maybe give some refunds as well.

 

[gerjbol]

When I bought mine on a plan from Telstra, they told me that it wasnt compatiable with the Australian 4G network, which, although annoying, didnt stop me from buying it - I just really wanted the new iPad. I am a little dissapointed that we didnt get to see an increase from say 64Gb to say 128Gb, or an upgrade to the forward facing camera, but apart from that Im happy.

Also - to the fool who said our 4G network only reaches 2% of the population, I found this on the Telstra website:

"Customers using this device in the central business districts (within 5kms from the GPO) of all Australian Capital CBDs, and within 3kms of the GPO in selected regional locations2, will experience the benefits of 4G."

I think that would include a little more than 2% of the population.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

Doesn't say that in the advertisements, which is what the whole issue is about.

Does Australia require fine print disclaimers at the bottom of their commercials?

If not, they better get on it. Otherwise, Apple is not misleading as at the time of sale the product disclosure information is readily visible to the consumer.

 

[TheBronx]

Did you actually read what this thread is about? They are already in trouble with regulators in Australia and it's likely other countries will follow.

Here's a page from Apple UK;

http://www.apple.com/uk/ipad/4g/

They've got 4G in the url and in big letters at the top of the page. Then tiny print at the bottom saying it might not actually have 4G in your country. Why are they even mentioning 4G on a UK page when the iPad they are selling will never provide a 4G service in the UK?

Who said anything about it being the end for Apple? They'll simply end up having to rewrite their marketing material the same as they have on numerous other occasions for making misleading claims. Maybe give some refunds as well.

they ACCC is alleging that they misled their customers. if you think an allegation means they are in "trouble", then ok hehe. A little dramatic though...nothing has even become of this yet, and the doomsdayists are already saying apple is in trouble!

second, i dont know why they're mentioning the 4g. but they do mention that its not available everywhere. so, its no biggie.

refunds? why? return your iPad if you were silly enough to not research the product you're buying. this whole thing is just silly. there was no misleading. apple clearly states everywhere that you can read it that LTE is only available in the us and canada. just a case of some australians crying foul because they didn't read what they were buying. nothing more nothing less

 

[TomP80]

Just to clear things up (as others have previously) for the non-Aussie's commenting here:

Australia has 3 x "serious" mobile phone carriers - Telstra, Optus & Vodafone. None of these carriers have ever attempted to market HSPA+ services (or anything else other than LTE) as "4G" as they did in the US - so this is not an issue in Australia.

In Australia, 4G = LTE in the eyes of all Australian consumers. There is no confusion about this over here.

There is only one 4G service available in Australia currently:

http://www.telstra.com.au/mobile-phones/coverage-networks/network-information/4g/

It is not unreasonable that if an Australian consumer purchases a "Wifi + 4G" iPad in from an Apple store in Australia, that they be compatible with Australian 4G networks.

It is completely unreasonable to expect that an average consumer should have to be an expert on exact country-specific carrier-specific LTE transmission ranges in GHz so that they can make an informed purchasing decision.

As an Australian consumer, if you are sold a "Wifi + 4G" iPad within Australia, you should expect compatibility with Australian 4G neworks. End of story.

In my opinion, Apple has made a pretty large mistake here. They should have either:

1. On a world-wide level, called the device "Wifi + Mobile" rather than "Wifi + 4G" or:
2. Marketed the producted differently in different countries, based on local LTE compatibility.

I don't think a refund program will fix this. This is not a situation of consumers returning a faulty product. This is a pretty clear-cut case of misleading advertising, and the ACCC has every right to protect Australian consumers from this by making Apple change their advertising going forward.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Apple products and admire them as a company, but they have made a mistake here.

 

[erangaj]

Technically since they said "4G connects to fast networks around the world" and it didn't say Australia specifically I think they are in the clear.

Is around the world = US & Canada?

Is Australian 4G LTE not included in "fast networks around the world"?

----------

Apple to refund Australians over 'false' iPad 4G

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/technology/t...im/story-fn6vigfp-1226311693352#ixzz1qN1OajVJ

 

[torontocitycab]

Wirelessly posted

This is really fast I m using it in Toronto speed and stream is remark able thanks to apple again
Http://www.torontocitycab.ca

 

[MattInOz]

Does Australia require fine print disclaimers at the bottom of their commercials?

If not, they better get on it. Otherwise, Apple is not misleading as at the time of sale the product disclosure information is readily visible to the consumer.

Well Yes but disclaimers and fine print don't always protect the seller from a misleading advertising claim.

In contrast, in Australian Competition and Consumer Commission v Telstra Corporation Limited [2007] FCA 1904, Telstra made various claims about its Next G mobile network, including that it had "coverage everywhere you need it". In its defence, Telstra argued that some of the advertisements directed consumers to its website, where various disclaimers about the extent of its network's coverage could be found. The court held that this disclaimer did not prevent the conduct from being misleading or deceptive, as it did not sufficiently communicate the information to potential customers.

 

[torontocitycab]

Wirelessly posted

Hi this 4g.ipad is really nice and cool machine just loved it thx to Steve jobs may God bless him
Http://www.Goofwipe.com

 

[torontocitycab]

Wirelessly posted

Hi this 4g.ipad is really nice and cool machine just loved it thx to Steve jobs may God bless him
Http://www.Goofwipe.com

 

[OziMac]

I don't think a refund program will fix this. This is not a situation of consumers returning a faulty product. This is a pretty clear-cut case of misleading advertising, and the ACCC has every right to protect Australian consumers from this by making Apple change their advertising going forward.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Apple products and admire them as a company, but they have made a mistake here.

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2012/03/apple-will-offer-refunds-to-4g-misled-customers/

It seems Apple at this stage will offer refunds to customers who believe they were misled (no real concession, seeing as they're still within the 14 day return window), will increase their efforts at point of sale to clarify the reduced functionality, but will not issue corrective stickers for the boxes.

The SC representing Apple raises one point that I think is difficult to refute - that there was significant press prior to the release of the iPad noting its incompatibility with Telstra's '4G' network. However, it seems at trial they would still fall back on the argument that HSPA+ meets international standards as to what constitutes 4G, something that I don't think will find a sympathetic ear from the judge with respect to Australian consumer law.

I've seen my share of Apple doomsayers and critics over the years too - Apple is frequently criticised unreasonably, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be called out for their mistakes. I know stickers are messy, but when you're producing two different models for two different US carriers (in three capacities and two colours), surely you have to start recognising that different markets that bring in significant revenue need to be addressed properly as well (not claiming this for Australia, but the rest of the world as a whole). I mean, they're not even selling the 4G iPad in Hong Kong for whatever reason, so it's not like they're completely against regional fragmentation.

As noted by others earlier, the more elegant solution is not referring to '3G' or '4G' but simply the fact that one iPad has mobile data while the other does not, however that may be appropriate. You can't name a product then backpedal from one of the integral features contained within its name - it's the same thing with 'unlimited' or 'capped' data, which we all complain about, and that the ACCC for once had some success in getting the carriers to be upfront about.

 

[WhoNet]

Would that mean that Vividwireless (www.vividwireless.com.au) who advertise
they are 4G are also misleading the Australian public ? I have read they are a
3.9G network.

I am with Vividwireless in Perth.

 

[tjxism]

Wirelessly posted

Wirelessly posted

My TV says HD but I don't get HD channels I'm suing..

The world is full of greedy morons.

Because of idiots like these we need to put warnings on frozen pizzas DO NOT TAKE Pizza out of oven with bare hands.

Makes me thinks Australia is run by idiots now

Your hd example does not stand a point.

Australia has 4G (and it is LTE which apple claim to support), just apple new ipad does not compatible.

The frequency resources are limited and it won't be surprised that different regions will use different frequencies. If apple new iPad supports only certain of them, why apple advertise world compatible?

Apple is not always right.

 

[kalsta]

Wirelessly posted

My TV says HD but I don't get HD channels I'm suing..

The world is full of greedy morons.

Because of idiots like these we need to put warnings on frozen pizzas DO NOT TAKE Pizza out of oven with bare hands.

Makes me thinks Australia is run by idiots now

Mate, now you're just embarrassing your smarter American compatriots—those who can actually read and comprehend the issue before opening their mouths.

The situation is nothing like your HD TV example. We DO have 4G networks in Australia, but they are incompatible with the networks in the USA and Canada.

A better analogy would be the situation with DVD regional coding. A DVD you buy in Australia will not play on the DVD player you bought in the US, because that's the way they designed it (part of the ridiculous digital-rights management system for DVDs.) So imagine a huge DVD reseller in the US started selling DVDs that were regionally coded for Australia… You come home with a brand new DVD. Technically, it was correctly advertised as a 'DVD', because that's exactly what it is! But when you try to play it, you quickly discover that it doesn't work on your player. Wouldn't you feel a little bit ripped off? Would we be right to call you a 'greedy moron' if you tried to take it back to the shop for a refund? Then imagine the shop points to the tiny icon on the back cover which says that it's coded for region 4, not region 1. Would that cut it?

No, I didn't think so. Neither should Apple be marketing the new iPad as '4G' in Australia when it's simply not compatible with our 4G networks. That is misleading advertising, and the ACCC has every right to jump on it to protect consumers. That's their role.

 

[Zimmer62943]

I love this! the ACCC sit on the asses and say that coles and wollies arent killing competition and also that the petrol prices arent rigged, but they jump and take apple to court over a minute issue regarding 2 characters, '4G'

 

[daffy67]

Wirelessly posted


Makes me thinks Australia is run by idiots now

IT IS run by idiots, unfortunately.
ALL politicians are idiots to some degree, hell they gave us a 'CARBON TAX' FFS.

4G or no 4G, the new Ipad gets better speeds than my ipad 2 and Iphone 4S so it's an improvement.

 

[John.B]

It's no good to say "HEY LOOK WE HAVE LTE"
*LTE doesn't work.

I call bull***.

From the iFixit teardown done on an Aussie iPad sold the day they were released:

Not one of the Aussie crew here on MR copped to it, but it turns out every "4G" iPad sold downunder has that label attached.

Every. Single. Box.

 

[TheBronx]

I call bull***.

From the iFixit teardown done on an Aussie iPad sold the day they were released:

Image

Not one of the Aussie crew here on MR copped to it, but it turns out every "4G" iPad sold downunder has that label on every box.

Wow, really? At first I was giving these Aussies the benefit of the doubt, but come on if its plainly written on the box like that, then they bought it and still whine, they are truly fools

This is a non-issue...

 

[daffy67]

I love this! the ACCC sit on the asses and say that coles and wollies arent killing competition and also that the petrol prices arent rigged, but they jump and take apple to court over a minute issue regarding 2 characters, '4G'

YEP.
ACCC=the toothless tiger.
Once the aussie consumer wakes up to what is going on it will be too late.
Argue semantics or technical speculations all day long 4G/LTE/ etc I like me new Ipad.

 

[aristotle]

I really don't give a rat's arse what the Australians think is 4G or not. All of the following:
HSPA+ (14.4 Mbits/sec), HSPA+ (21 Mbits/sec) and DC HSPA (42Mbits/sec) have a theoretical maximum that is well into the range how what people on LTE 4G networks in other countries get on a daily basis.

Canada has several carriers to choose from for LTE that deliver anywhere from around 10 - 54 Mbits/sec and most of the time the speed is around 25 Mbits/sec instead of the higher end.

If EVDO at maximum of 3 and typical 1 Mbits/sec is considered 3G and 7.2 HSPA is also considered 3G then 14.4 and above should be considered "4G" full stop.

If this is not acceptable then I demand EVDO to be demoted to 2.5G.

At the bare minimum, 21Mbit/sec and up should be defector 4G.

 

[OziMac]

I call bull***.

From the iFixit teardown done on an Aussie iPad sold the day they were released:

Image

Not one of the Aussie crew here on MR copped to it, but it turns out every "4G" iPad sold downunder has that label attached.

Every. Single. Box.

Source? If this were confirmed that would certainly go some way towards addressing the issue. But this is a box from Telstra who are definitely stickering their 4G iPads, whereas my understanding is that Apple itself are not stickering the ones sold through their stores (though they do have notices in store clarifying this, which is what the ACCC is alleging is insufficient).

And while I think this is the least they should do (and probably sufficient for most people) that isn't necessarily enough for the product name 'iPad WiFi + 4G' to not be misleading.

 

[SurferPup]

Idiots In My Country - Australia

The ACCC are idiots to pursue action with Apple as Apple is not to blame for our backward predominately regulated monopolised telecommunications industry. An LTE capable iPad 3 doesn't mean that mobile carriers around the world instantly start transmitting on American 4G frequencies. Any Australian whom purchases an iPad 3 LTE enabled tablet believing they will have 4G speeds is also an idiot and doesn't deserve to have one - they should go back to using a stone tablet and rock. The ACCC should take a look at anti competitive closed market practices in Australia and themselves before they criticise a world IT leader like Apple.

 

[TheBronx]

Source? If this were confirmed that would certainly go some way towards addressing the issue. But this is a box from Telstra who are definitely stickering their 4G iPads, whereas my understanding is that Apple itself are not stickering the ones sold through their stores (though they do have notices in store clarifying this, which is what the ACCC is alleging is insufficient).

And while I think this is the least they should do (and probably sufficient for most people) that isn't necessarily enough for the product name 'iPad WiFi + 4G' to not be misleading.

How is it not necessarily enough? This is what I said about being spoonfed earlier hehe. If that sticker is on every box, then this "investigation" is a bigger joke then I originally thought hehe

 

[AidenShaw]

If the Prius were marketed as it is now in the U.S., but you could only charge it using the Japanese electrical grid, Toyota would be sued to bankruptcy by American consumers.

The Prius runs on petrol, it does not have a charging connector.

Fail.

I figured apple to be one not to promote misleading adverts; Steve would never have allowed it.

Apple produced many misleading adverts during the reign of the turtlenecked overlord, for example "first 64-bit desktop".

Every. Single. Box.

But Every. Single. Ad. says 4G - even the name of the product says 4G.

It's "misleading" to say one thing in the title font, and then to have a fine-print footnote or sticker on the back of the box that completely reverses the bold message.

 

[Monkey Butler]

I call bull***.

From the iFixit teardown done on an Aussie iPad sold the day they were released:

Image

Not one of the Aussie crew here on MR copped to it, but it turns out every "4G" iPad sold downunder has that label attached.

Every. Single. Box.

And yet it still has '4G' written on the box. The Trade Practices Act prohibits misleading or deceptive conduct. If the box says that it's both 4G and NOT 4G, I'd call that misleading. Apple just got sloppy.