AVCHD Lite on a Intel Mac

[dalvin200]

i have the panasonic tz7, and do not record video in avchd lite mode yet... i did try but imovie 09 recognised the camera but failed to import any clips at all - even though the apple support articles say it will import but playback at double speed.

so i just record in motion jpeg at the mo, which is 30fps .mov.. all seems fine with that.. ok, so it takes up twice the storage space on your memory card, but not overly fussed at the moment..

but hoping apple kick out an imovie update which will handle avchd lite soon

 

[jjjcoop23]

Any news? any updates? hows it going? is it all working ok?

cheers

yup- everything is working just fine. I have made my 1st DVD now, and its great!

 

[flopticalcube]

i have the panasonic tz7, and do not record video in avchd lite mode yet... i did try but imovie 09 recognised the camera but failed to import any clips at all - even though the apple support articles say it will import but playback at double speed.

so i just record in motion jpeg at the mo, which is 30fps .mov.. all seems fine with that.. ok, so it takes up twice the storage space on your memory card, but not overly fussed at the moment..

but hoping apple kick out an imovie update which will handle avchd lite soon

What are your impressions of the camera? I had a TZ1 and now a TZ5. I may move up the food chain, again.

 

[MrMister111]

i have the panasonic tz7, and do not record video in avchd lite mode yet... i did try but imovie 09 recognised the camera but failed to import any clips at all - even though the apple support articles say it will import but playback at double speed.

so i just record in motion jpeg at the mo, which is 30fps .mov.. all seems fine with that.. ok, so it takes up twice the storage space on your memory card, but not overly fussed at the moment..

but hoping apple kick out an imovie update which will handle avchd lite soon

Thats the exact camera I'm wanting the TZ7, whats it like? I was hoping to record in AVDLite and I thought that iMovie 09 supported it direct, via the camera when you plug it in.

Ive been told it does support this, what issues are you getting? I dont think you can import form the memory card plugged in, but if you plug in the camera it should work

can you try again, see what happens, whats issues/errors etc please

Also how did you pay for it, the TZ7? Its looking about £319 online for me, is it worth it? a lot of money, but I want an all in one camera/camcorder.

cheers

 

[justin-shedworx]

AVCHD Lite and Apple

Apple doesn't support AVCHD Lite yet.

AVCHD Lite has a minor difference to straight AVCHD in the way the video stream is encoded. AVCHD Lite is always 1280x720p in resolution.

I have been using using the Panasonic DMC-FT1 (DMC-TS1 in the US) this weekend and it is a great little camera.

Good luck with it! These new cameras are fantastic and I recommend them to anyone looking for a new point-and-shoot camera. Video is up to the level of a dedicated AVCHD video camera, but its way ahead of any point-and-shoot that I've ever seen before.

 

[dalvin200]

Apple doesn't support AVCHD Lite yet.

AVCHD Lite has a minor difference to straight AVCHD in the way the video stream is encoded. AVCHD Lite is always 1280x720p in resolution.

Our software - VoltaicHD - has been out for a month or so now with AVCHD Lite support.

Good luck with it! These new cameras are fantastic and I recommend them to anyone looking for a new point-and-shoot camera. Video is up to the level of a dedicated AVCHD video camera, but its way ahead of any point-and-shoot that I've ever seen before.

Hey Justin - yes, I am using your software to convert the mts files to mov right now

I agree with all you say about the camera.. its fantastic for a P&S!

Thats the exact camera I'm wanting the TZ7, whats it like? I was hoping to record in AVDLite and I thought that iMovie 09 supported it direct, via the camera when you plug it in.

Ive been told it does support this, what issues are you getting? I dont think you can import form the memory card plugged in, but if you plug in the camera it should work

can you try again, see what happens, whats issues/errors etc please

Also how did you pay for it, the TZ7? Its looking about £319 online for me, is it worth it? a lot of money, but I want an all in one camera/camcorder.

cheers

Its a really good camera.. and the 12X zoom is definitely cool i hardly take my dslr and canon hf100 out with me now... i have been using the tz7 which has proved to be excellent.. ok, it does have its faults and it can't replace a true video camera, but for small clips of the kids etc.. its fantastic.

I think I paid £300 for it on Amazon UK... you can probably get it cheaper from like SunDigital or somewhere, but they're not as reputable as Amazon either... it is expensive, but it is also worth it imo. And the screen is really nice!

Still waiting for Apple to natively support avchd lite which will come soon..

What are your impressions of the camera? I had a TZ1 and now a TZ5. I may move up the food chain, again.

if you're after the HD movies then TZ7 is good... there's also the TZ6 too if you're not that fussed with movies...

 

[MrMister111]

Just for the record, the AVCHD Lite footage from the ZS3 (aka TZ7) is somewhat compatible with iMovie. However, there's an issue where imported footage plays at 2x the actual frame rate.

See the following links for details.

DC Resource Review

Apple Support KB

regarding the Apple KB, what are the incompatibilities then? and are they being looked at for a fix? is it the 2x speed issue?

@ dalvin200

can you record any short movie on your TZ7 using AVCLite, then connect your TZ7 to you Mac and using iMovie 09 what happens? does it import yet after the iMovie 8.02 update or anything?
still awaiting confirmation on these issues
cheers

 

[DoNoHarm]

adobe premere using avchd

guys sorry for not picking this up if it's already addressed here but if I'm about to buy a DMC-ZS3 and i'm just getting into the video blogging world. Are you saying that if I have a DMC-ZS3 + MBP 2.4ghz intel, then I'll be able to edit the format without any extra steps if i use adobe premere? what if i'm using final cut? the DMC-ZS3 seems like a really good camera, is this the point and shoot camera/video camera solution for someone like me doing a travel blog who will need a very small solution? Thanks for your advice!

Apple doesn't support AVCHD Lite yet.

AVCHD Lite has a minor difference to straight AVCHD in the way the video stream is encoded. AVCHD Lite is always 1280x720p in resolution.

Our software - VoltaicHD - has been out for a month or so now with AVCHD Lite support.

I have been using using the Panasonic DMC-FT1 (DMC-TS1 in the US) this weekend and it is a great little camera. I've posted a quick blog entry here

Good luck with it! These new cameras are fantastic and I recommend them to anyone looking for a new point-and-shoot camera. Video is up to the level of a dedicated AVCHD video camera, but its way ahead of any point-and-shoot that I've ever seen before.

actually the page on your blog was pretty helpful. so if i'm understanding correctly from the info you posted here:
http://shedworx.com/hd-information/avchd

adobe premere can't handle avchd at all. If i get a camera that uses this format, I'll have to decompress it to avi if I want to work with it. Is this a big disadvantage compared to mov? If you were going to travel around the world and blog about it, which camera would you take that is extremely portable, small, and can video and stills? Thanks everyone for the advice.

 

[justin-shedworx]

adobe premere can't handle avchd at all. If i get a camera that uses this format, I'll have to decompress it to avi if I want to work with it. Is this a big disadvantage compared to mov?

There is no major quality loss going to AVI instead of MOV, but I think you're better off with iMovie than Premiere, if you have a choice. There's always Final Cut Express on the Mac too, which is reasonably priced and very capable.

If you were going to travel around the world and blog about it, which camera would you take that is extremely portable, small, and can video and stills? Thanks everyone for the advice.

I'm no camera expert, but I do think these new cameras from Panasonic are very good. I've personally moved from lugging around my Canon HF11 and Canon point and shoot to usually just taking the FT1 now. I still use the HF11 when I want the 10x zoom and full HD.

There are other small cameras that can shoot 1280x720 HD video, (e.g. the Flip) but they don't have good still image capabilities.

I think the HD angle is important because even YouTube and others like Vimeo are now support HD uploads and playback.

 

[DoNoHarm]

yeah, i think i've decided on going with a point and shoot panasonic, probably the tz7. i had a recent trip where I took along a nikon d70 slr and while the average picture quality was high, it was so large that taking a smaller point and shoot with reasonable capabilities will result in a much higher number of high quality images. the video recording capabilities also enable totally new forms of documenting trips, etc. I think we're about to experience a shift towards video becoming the main tool people use to document their memories.... finally.

 

[Habakuk]

VoltaicHD needs about 10 min to convert a 1 min AVCHD Lite file into .mov.

MovieConverter Studio-1.501 needs about 3 min for the same job and the output seems to be technically a bit better, file size even smaller. And the best: It does it for FREE (although there are some nag screens).

My settings: Input file *.MTS from Panasonic Lumix ZS5/TZ7. Target Standard: PAL. Output format: *.DV. Quality: "Superior". Switched off "Normalize". Bitrate: 8,000. Opens and imports fine in QuickTime and iMovie '09.

Input file size: 123 MB
Output file size MovieConverter: 238 MB
Output file size VoltaicHD: 297 MB

The software produces a folder with the DV file and a text file inside:

You converted a video PAL-50fps (50.00 FPS) to PAL 25.00 FPS.
Your audio is (re-)synchronize.
(and insert the .DV file in the 'Media' folder inside your iMovie project)
--------------------
SETTINGS

decoder : FFmpeg
field order : none/progressive
audio : wav
encoder : FFmpeg
bitrate : 8000 kbits/s
quality : superior
output : DV

date : 2009/05/30

I've downloaded it from here:
http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/25944/movieconverter-studio

Manufacturer's website:
http://movieconverter.online.fr/intl/home.php

 

[Habakuk]

iMovie '09 8.0.3 now imports and displays (preview not full quality) AVCHD Lite files. I've made a quick test -- details here.

 

[MrMister111]

iMovie '09 8.0.3 now imports and displays (preview not full quality) AVCHD Lite files. I've made a quick test -- details here.

That is fantastic news!! The icing on the cake!!

I have just got my Red TZ7, cant wait to use it, the stumbling block was iMovie 09 support for the video, was hunting for best export/import/conversion solution, now looks like Apple have provided it!!

So can you edit it etc fine after importing? what about exporting? any format? which is best for best resolution and quality

I have an Intel Alu Mac, with 2GHz , and 2Gb RAM is this sufficient?
cheers

 

[Habakuk]

the stumbling block was iMovie 09 support for the video, was hunting for best export/import/conversion solution, now looks like Apple have provided it!!

Okay. Motion JPEG format (double file size) worked even before the update and I used it until today. Maybe I'll switch now to AVCHD Lite.

So can you edit it etc fine after importing?

Yes. No difference as with all other files. After a quick test.

what about exporting? any format?

You can choose all formats. I tried high definition *.mov and it looks and sounds great when I play the exported file with QuickTime.

which is best for best resolution and quality

What do you mean? Record, import or export? ;-)

The important question is: What has the better record quality? Motion JPEG or (more compressed) AVCHD Lite? In the camera viewfinder I can see no difference on playback.

My edited and exported testing *.mov (recorded as AVCHD Lite) seems to have less shutter artifacts in quick pans than a file recorded as Motion JPEG when I watch it on MBP display. I'll have to make more tests on that topic.

For import and export in iMovie simply choose the highest resolution/quality/"full size"/"HD".

I have an Intel Alu Mac, with 2GHz , and 2Gb RAM is this sufficient?
cheers

Should work but represents the boundaries at the lower side of technical performance I would say.

 

[MrMister111]

--which is best for best resolution and quality--
What do you mean? Record, import or export? ;-)

Sorry I meant for importing and exporting what should I choose to import at best? and then again, if I want to keep the best resolution and quality for wider format support whats best for export


--I have an Intel Alu Mac, with 2GHz , and 2Gb RAM is this sufficient?
cheers--
Should work but represents the boundaries at the lower side of technical performance I would say.

Oh dear, This is my 1st ever Mac, I bought it in Xmas 2007. It was cuting edge then! I couldnt afford any of the better models, you think it wiill struggle mine?
cheers

 

[neutrino23]

Coen, thanks for the very lucid explanation. I've been reading a lot on this topic and you put the most information in the least space I've seen yet.

I use a Canon HG20 which records to a HD or to flash. I don't connect the camera to the computer as you have to copy over everything and I'd rather have the option to copy individual clips. Perhaps there is a way to do this but it is complicated as Canon does not provide a convenient directory structure.

Instead I copy individual clips to the internal flash card and move that to the computer. I store all video clips in AVCHD on an external 1TB hard drive (mirrored for safety). This way I can safely delete individual clips from the camera. If I did this manually from the computer I might screw it up.

In iMovie I ask it to import a clip, iMovie recognizes Canon's goofy directory structure, shows me the clip(s), plays them and lets me choose which to import and whether to import at full or medium resolution.

I keep backups of everything in AVCHD format. When iMovie imports these and converts them you can store them in that format in the iMovie project.

After editing is complete you have to share the result somehow. iMovie gives you a number of options from iPod size through web sizes all the way to full HD (1920x1080).

I've yet to do much sharing. My plan is to share 720P QT movies. The intent is to play them on computers. I'm not trying to be artistic. I'm making teaching videos about a scientific instrument. Just being a step up from DV will be fantastic.

My suggestion is to try something similar. Work with medium size conversion and 720P output in QT. When you're comfortable with that you can try full resolution.

 

[Habakuk]

Oh dear, This is my 1st ever Mac, I bought it in Xmas 2007. It was cuting edge then! I couldnt afford any of the better models, you think it wiill struggle mine?

I depends on that what you want. If you want to make short clips for YouTube HD without too many bells and whistles your equipment will work although some workflow steps will get processed slower than with more powerful computers.

If you want to make really long videos of family events maybe switch down resolution for a better and faster workflow (no high definition but standard definition maybe).

If you want to produce movies in DVD length, quality and with full loaded post processing features you will struggle with your 1st ever Mac.

A drawback for AVCHD Lite in my personal workflow:

I loved to "import" a first and quick raw cut of my records (let's say made in a day) directly via QuickTime. Just dragging one clip after the other from the cardreader into QT and delete unwanted sections. A perfect backup for later editing and you get your precious SDHC cards free for new recordings.

That is only possible with "QuickTime Movie JPEG" format (supported by Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ7/ZS3). QuickTime does not support direct AVCHD Lite assembling. It was just an iMovie '09 update two days ago.

 

[MrMister111]

I depends on that what you want. If you want to make short clips for YouTube HD without too many bells and whistles your equipment will work although some workflow steps will get processed slower than with more powerful computers.

If you want to make really long videos of family events maybe switch down resolution for a better and faster workflow (no high definition but standard definition maybe).

If you want to produce movies in DVD length, quality and with full loaded post processing features you will struggle with your 1st ever Mac.

A drawback for AVCHD Lite in my personal workflow:

I loved to "import" a first and quick raw cut of my records (let's say made in a day) directly via QuickTime. Just dragging one clip after the other from the cardreader into QT and delete unwanted sections. A perfect backup for later editing and you get your precious SDHC cards free for new recordings.

That is only possible with "QuickTime Movie JPEG" format (supported by Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ7/ZS3). QuickTime does not support direct AVCHD Lite assembling. It was just an iMovie '09 update two days ago.

Any updates? still not had chance to test. I know that iMovie 09 not supports AVCHD Lite, but it still converts it to AIC when importing, so still large file sizes.

Ok heres what I want to do..

I bought my TZ7 as a camcorder replacement (for my Mini DV), and updated digi still cam.

I now what to be able to edit the movies (sometimes even just cropping)

So what is the best way to export/do this/store my files. Basically I want to make up a library of movies like I have with photos with iPhoto.

in the future I may want to join a lot of the movies and make a DVD for example, or do the fancy stuff in iMovie

cheers

 

[spice weasel]

I use a Canon HG20 which records to a HD or to flash. I don't connect the camera to the computer as you have to copy over everything and I'd rather have the option to copy individual clips. Perhaps there is a way to do this but it is complicated as Canon does not provide a convenient directory structure...

If you are talking about importing into iMovie, you don't have to copy all your clips at once. Just select "manual" when importing and you can choose which clips to import. If you are talking about archiving footage on a computer, then yes, unfortunately it's an all or nothing proposition unless you use an SDHC card.

 

[Mhaddy]

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I just picked up the TS1 a few days and have been playing around with it - love it so far, but have a few questions:

1. In the camera's screen, particularly with sunny shots, I'm noticing a purple ghosting around dark objects. This does this appear on the shots, only on the screen. Has anyone else experienced this?

2. Recording in AVCHD Lite, after importing the videos to my Intel Mac Pro, I see a lot of artifacts in the video. Motion JPEG, while twice the file size, doesn't appear to have these same artifacts. Just wondering if the artifacts in the AVCHD Lite videos are just the result of its compression or if there is something wrong with my camera?

Thanks!

 

[omnirune]

So now that iMovie 09 natively supports the ZS3, does the imported AVCHD movie stay in AVCHD format when brought onto the hard drive, or is it still transcoded into the Apple Intermediate Codec?

What does the source file inside of the iMovie Events folder look like for the imported AVCHD files from the ZS3? Are they MP4 format? AIC? MTS?

The bottom line is I want to know if these video files will explode in size upon import. Thanks


UPDATE:
Based on another forum, it looks like it WILL be converted to the AIC format:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=32136523

That is unfortunate. I'm sure these files will be huge. Does anyone else take the files from the camera, process it through handbrake to convert into a H.264 file, and then import that into iMovie (to avoid creation of AIC and thus massive loss of HD space?) Or is there a method to prevent iMovie from conducting the AIC conversion?

 

[soosy]

So I've been looking into the ZS3 and just to be clear, with AVCHD Lite clips straight from the camera card...

- They can be imported into iMovie.
- They can't be played in Quicktime player.
- They can be played with VLC.
- They can't be imported to iPhoto. (if they could, they could at least be dragged to VLC for playback.)
- They can be converted with VoltaicHD or possibly other 3rd party software.

Just wanted to confirm. Lack of Quicktime/iPhoto is a big drawback to me. But being able to play them in VLC could be good enough.

Apple updated iMovie so perhaps they will update Quicktime/iPhoto eventually.

I'm also considering the Canon SX200IS, the only major drawback to me being no zooming during movie recording.

Edit: I was able to download an .mts file from Vimeo to test and looks like everything above is correct. Got an error when trying to import into iPhoto. Not recognized by Quicktime. Played in VLC. Actually couldn't get it to import into iMovie but I'm not that familiar with iMovie so I'm sure I was just doing something wrong. Or maybe it only works straight from the camera card with its directory structure. *shrug*

 

[omnirune]

You can choose between AVCHD Lite and Motion JPEG (stored in a MOV container).

I did 2:10 second clip comparisons between MJPG and AVCHD Lite. I found that on average, the AVCHD Lite clips would be at least twice as large as the total size of MJPG files upon import into iMovie 09 (and Final Cut Express 4) due to conversion into the Apple Intermediate Codec. The non-converted AVCHD Lite clip is vastly smaller (about 70 MB/minute).

The file size for the AVCHD Lite converted into AIC was 909 MB, and the unconverted (since it can be used natively with iMovie 09 and FCE4) MJPEG file was 480MB. Big difference on your computer's HD space.

That aside, from my intial testing, I cannot visually see a difference between motion jpeg and avchd lite, nor the converted AIC against the motion jpeg.

 

[147798]

You can choose between AVCHD and Motion JPEG (stored in a MOV container).

I did 10 second clip comparisons between MJPG and AVCHD. I found that on average, the AVCHD clips would be at least equal to or slightly smaller than the total size of MJPG files upon import into iMovie 09 (and Final Cut Express 4). The non-converted AVCHD clip is vastly smaller (about 70 MB/minute).

Thus, upon conversion from AVCHD into the Apple Intermediate Codec, the size of the converted file is roughly similar (and often times smaller) than the motion jpeg file contained in the MOV container. We're looking at approximately 200 MB / minute for the AIC file or the original motion JPEG (which does not need conversion upon import in FCE4 or iMovie).

That aside, from my intial testing, I cannot visually see a difference between motion jpeg and avchd, nor the converted AIC against the motion jpeg.

To my eyes, in low light situations, the AVCHD puts out much cleaner video -- a lot less noise, which is worth the intermediate step for me. It seems most of my videos are in low light, so having the camera put out a cleaner video to start is useful for what I do. ymmv.

 

[Habakuk]

I did 10 second clip comparisons between MJPG and AVCHD. I found that on average, the AVCHD clips would be at least equal to or slightly smaller than the total size of MJPG files upon import into iMovie 09 (and Final Cut Express 4).

Thanks for your tests but don't let us mix up things here. This thread is about AVCHD Lite file format and it's not supported (yet) by FCE 4.0.1 (and QuickTime btw). You can view it in FCE "log and transfer" window but not direct import.

AVCHD Lite is supported only by iMovie '09 (v 8.0.3 or newer) and some third-party converters.