AVCHD or HDV Tape - About to get Camcorder

[nutmac]

Although AVCHD camcorders have been rightly criticized in the past, 3rd generation AVCHD camcorders from Canon (VIXIA HF100 and HF10) and Sony (HDR-SR10, HDR-SR10D, HDR-SR-11, HDR-SR12, and HDR-TG1) are significantly improved, on par with comparable HDV camcorders.

They sport higher bitrate (17 Mbps for Canon, 16 Mbps for Sony), full HD resolution (1920x1080), and most importantly, significantly improved video quality overall.

In my experience, Canon camcorders are better performer, particularly under low light, and they feature 24p and 30p modes. On the flip side, Sony has xvYCC, more effective image stabilizer, and higher end models (HDR-SR11 and HDR-SR12) have super amazing 3.2" 1920x480 LCD viewfinder.

For my money, I would avoid Sony's 1/5" image sensor offerings (HDR10, HDR-10D, and HDR-TG1).

 

[Full of Win]

Our office uses a Canon HV20 and it's working out really well. The only limitation I've really found is breaking long lectures, meetings, presentations etc into 62 minute segments to switch tapes. Of course the harddrive cam we were using before took sooooo long to offload video that you needed at least one full day of notice that something else needed to be filmed so you could dump the footage and make room; once you got it off you had 7 hours of space.

Have you ever thought of getting a HDMI capture card? You can get a full progressive picture IIRC this way - and use your hard drive, thus decreasing the time to edit you video.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Have you ever thought of getting a HDMI capture card? You can get a full progressive picture IIRC this way - and use your hard drive, thus decreasing the time to edit you video.

You'd still want to run tape though for when, not if, the computer freezes and you lose the entire capture.


Lethal

 

[vistajumper]

I haven't thought about the expansion card since it's an iMac. I'm very new to the mac world and not terribly sure what the expansion options are...mostly because I'm pretty lazy and just haven't looked into it. The real-time capture doesn't really bother me, since I don't ever get a chance to sit and nurse it; I'm the only computer support in an office of over 450 real estate agents! I never really get to sit in one place for very long, but I digress. Anyway, we've had really nice results from the canon and since there are only very rare instances that something needing to be filmed is much more than 45 minutes or so, the tape does't bother me either - not to mention, getting real estate agents to pay attention to anything for longer than 50 minutes (and that's stretching it) is next to impossible so the break to change tapes would be a welcome one.

On a side note, I am thinking of getting an express 34 SATA card and external HD for my mbp since I sometimes edit audio/video on it and I'm currently down to 20G of my 120G drive. I don't know why I mention it, but there it is.

Best

 

[hotshotharry]

Lethal,

Is this true? I was looking at FCE 4 on Apple's site and based on some of the tutorials and such, it seems like it implies that FCE 4 can; edit AVCHD directly. There's some blurb about how quickly that you can start editing after copying over the AVCHD files to the Mac's HDD.

It would be nice to be able to natively edit AVCHD (and HDV for that matter). It would keep the HDD requirements down.

ft

This is taken directly from the final cut express 4 user manual

another quote

 AVCHD footage is not captured natively but is transcoded to Apple Intermediate Codec.


Note: Final Cut Express does not have native editing support for AVCHD footage.
However, the Log and Transfer window automatically transcodes AVCHD footage
during transfer.

Copied and pasted directly

http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/Final_Cut_Express_4_User_Manual.pdf

 

[madmaxmedia]

My impression from reading around is the same as nutmac's. The AVCHD camcorders are getting better, but even with MPEG4 compression still aren't delivering as clean results as HDV. But pretty close now.

The Canon HG10, HV20, and HV30 all use the same CMOS sensor, apparently pretty big for this class, and combined with 24p delivers great low-light performance (again, considering the class of camera.)

I bought an HV20 recently and have just started playing with it. I love the CMOS sensors in the Canon DSLR's, and similarly like the HV20 a lot too.

There are pro's and con's to both tape and HD. For me personally, I will be making shorts and the low price of DV tape is very appealing to me. I don't mind having a small box full of tapes, since that can be literally hundreds of hours of footage and not really cost all that much either. In my mind DV tape is at least as reliable as a HD as well in terms of mid to long term storage.

OTOH if I was using the camera mainly to catch memories of my family, an HD-based system would be appealing.

Although AVCHD camcorders have been rightly criticized in the past, 3rd generation AVCHD camcorders from Canon (VIXIA HF100 and HF10) and Sony (HDR-SR10, HDR-SR10D, HDR-SR-11, HDR-SR12, and HDR-TG1) are significantly improved, on par with comparable HDV camcorders.

They sport higher bitrate (17 Mbps for Canon, 16 Mbps for Sony), full HD resolution (1920x1080), and most importantly, significantly improved video quality overall.

In my experience, Canon camcorders are better performer, particularly under low light, and they feature 24p and 30p modes. On the flip side, Sony has xvYCC, more effective image stabilizer, and higher end models (HDR-SR11 and HDR-SR12) have super amazing 3.2" 1920x480 LCD viewfinder.

For my money, I would avoid Sony's 1/5" image sensor offerings (HDR10, HDR-10D, and HDR-TG1).

 

[harcosparky]

Tape is outdated and cumbersome.

Tell that to all the pros who shoot on tape.

I have an extensive library of video we shot over the years on tape, going back as far as Analog 8 --> HI-8 --> D8 --> MiniDV. I also have equipment on hand to play the older format tapes. Even have some home movies on old VHS tapes.

I am probably going to buy Canon HV30, because it is TAPE and tape is much more convenient. I can shoot video on tape, pull the tape and hand it off to another person to start post work .... pop in another tape and keep on shooting. My shooting time is limited only by the number of tapes on hand, not by the fixed media inside the camera.

I'd rather carry around a few batteries and tapes and not have to lug around a laptop. I do the same with digital cameras, carry batteries and several 8GB CF cards.

Also I have not seen any threads where people are having trouble importing HDV video via tape. Can't say the same for AVCHD.

Maybe, just maybe one day the Flash based camcorders will be as good as tape and HDV .... but for now that is not the case.

 

[Squelch]

I am probably going to buy Canon HV30, because it is TAPE and tape is much more convenient. I can shoot video on tape, pull the tape and hand it off to another person to start post work .... pop in another tape and keep on shooting. My shooting time is limited only by the number of tapes on hand, not by the fixed media inside the camera.

I'd rather carry around a few batteries and tapes and not have to lug around a laptop. I do the same with digital cameras, carry batteries and several 8GB CF cards.

Wait, you negate your own argument. The beauty of a camera like a Canon HF100 is that you can bring along a bunch of SD cards to record onto. I haven't used tape in about 7 years, but if I remember correctly, a miniDV tape is about 1 x 2 x 3 cm. An SD card is about 1.5 x 2 x .03 cm. So... You could carry a lot more SD cards than tapes in the same amount of space.

And, I believe you can also just pull the SD card out and "hand it off to another person to start post work..." Correct me if I'm wrong, because I haven't actually played with one yet. But it seems that it wouldn't be too difficult to switch SD cards "in the field".

And if you don't want to lug around a laptop, how do you expect to get the video off the tape?

 

[madmaxmedia]

Not that I care about this as an argument, but DV tapes are much cheaper than SD cards. $20 will buy you 10 hours or so of DV tapes, I'm not sure how much AVCHD shooting time you can get for $20. Neither format is particularly large or bulky to handle.

But each has its advantages, I'm just glad we have all the options. I do think DV is more practical now for many because of cost, but as with iPods this will change over the mid to long run. In a pro environment handing off high capacity SD cards may not be a big deal though.

Wait, you negate your own argument. The beauty of a camera like a Canon HF100 is that you can bring along a bunch of SD cards to record onto. I haven't used tape in about 7 years, but if I remember correctly, a miniDV tape is about 1 x 2 x 3 cm. An SD card is about 1.5 x 2 x .03 cm. So... You could carry a lot more SD cards than tapes in the same amount of space.

And, I believe you can also just pull the SD card out and "hand it off to another person to start post work..." Correct me if I'm wrong, because I haven't actually played with one yet. But it seems that it wouldn't be too difficult to switch SD cards "in the field".

And if you don't want to lug around a laptop, how do you expect to get the video off the tape?

 

[harcosparky]

Yes tapes are cheap, but can stretch and have been known to get damaged.

If the camcorder has a hard drive, the original footage is left unaltered on the hard drive if you need to re-edit, but yes it is advisable to back up to DVD

I do not consider AVCHD to be inferior in any way.

I have tapes video on HI-8 that was done so long ago I forgot shooting it.

It has not stretched.

For a tape to get stretched that one tape has to have been played over and over and over and over and over again. My oldest son is 20, I have him on tape at age 1 and those tapes are fine.

I have had more hard drives get damaged and fail over the years than I have had tapes get damaged.

I consider tape to be far safer in that regard.

 

[harcosparky]

Wait, you negate your own argument. The beauty of a camera like a Canon HF100 is that you can bring along a bunch of SD cards to record onto. I haven't used tape in about 7 years, but if I remember correctly, a miniDV tape is about 1 x 2 x 3 cm. An SD card is about 1.5 x 2 x .03 cm. So... You could carry a lot more SD cards than tapes in the same amount of space.

And, I believe you can also just pull the SD card out and "hand it off to another person to start post work..." Correct me if I'm wrong, because I haven't actually played with one yet. But it seems that it wouldn't be too difficult to switch SD cards "in the field".

And if you don't want to lug around a laptop, how do you expect to get the video off the tape?

yeah but if I am not mistaken the SD card has the video in some sort of ACVHD format where as the tape will be in MiniDV or HDV formats. I consider those formats to be more useful at this time because of compatabilty issues with editing systems.

How do I expect to get the video off the tape without lugging around a laptop?

That's easy ... I do the post work when I get back to my shop, where I do all my photo/video work. Unless you want to edit in the field, there is no need to remove the video from the tape in the field.

Same thing with photography ... pics stay in the CF cards until I get back to the shop, where I download and edit them.

I will be buying a tape based HDV camcorder over the next few days as they seem to be much more versatile and universally compatible.

Yes I know SD cards are smaller than tapes, but should I need to hand off video to another party I won't have to worry about them not being able to read it.


I was close to buying an ACVHD HDD camcorder with an SD card slot until I was reading about compatibility with Mac apps. It's like Camera A will work with FCP is it has ACVHD on it and ACVHD alone .... if you have any video on the HDD in a lower format , none of the video can be viewed until the lower res stuff is removed. Camera B is compatible with one app but not the other. Who needs that sort of headache?

Maybe in a year the quality of ACVHD will catch up to HDV's quality today!

Maybe in a year ACVHD will be as compatible with editing packages as HDV is today!

I am buying a camcorder to use TODAY, not next year.

So far the Canon HV30 gets the nod .... but this is because nobody has the Sony units in stock.


EDIT: Brought home the Canon HV30 today ..... hopefully will get a chance to use it on Sunday, mounted to a motorcycle for a charity ride.

 

[highjumppudding]

hdv

stick with hdv for now. avchd will take over in the future but at the moment is under-developed. hdv has been around much longer and has had enough time for improvements over the years. stick with hdv.

 

[guyholmes]

All well and good and some excellent responses. But .............

It would seem HDV is on the way out. Sony and Canon whilst both making HDV products, seem to now be biased toward AVCHD and HDD camcorders which I guess are easier to produce. Nobody on this forum seems to dispute that tape will eventually give way to hard drive based media.

My concern is that I do like to archive all my footage and I think tape is great. Easy to edit, and still keep a perfect easy to store backup in a shoe box. Trouble is, there is lots of footage of me as a baby and my parents wedding, all in perfect condition, stored on reels of 'Standard 8' in a shoebox in my folks house, and you guessed it, nothing around that will play it !! I see this same issue happening with DV Tape, not even in the far distant future.

Sure, for an important event like the wedding, you can pay some company a fair bit to put it onto DVD for you, but not with hours of footage as I have. Hard disk storage, certainly has its own problems, not least of all because I feel it would all need to be backed up regularly across 3 different drives in order to ensure I had a robust failure protection in force, but at least it will future proof the delivery of that material for future generations.

How long do you see DV / HDV tape drives being in existance, that will continue to play these precious archives of material - 10 years maybe ?? However long we can keep the camcorder working ?? And of course when the inevitable day is near, and the decision has to be made to transfer our tapes onto something that will see us out, how are we going to transfer hundreds of hours of material, in real time onto some sort of hard drive ?

For my own approach, I think I'm biting the bullet. HDV so ensure some continuity and quality. Plays my old DV tapes, and works better with my Mac than AVCHD at a better quality. But gradually undertaking the process of putting my old tapes in original format onto a hard drive at about 12GB per hour of footage. At the moment I don't feel the need for the 3rd backup (!) as I still have the tapes, but hopefully storage space will get ever cheaper and maybe even more reliable, but at least I'll feel secure !

 

[madmaxmedia]

I think you basically answered your original question, which is to say there is no clearcut answer regarding backups and 'future-proofing'.

If this were a discussion of analog vs. digital, then obviously digital is the way to go. But we're talking about purely digital data in both cases. Whether you shoot AVCHD with a HD-based camcorder, or HDV with a tape-based camcorder, you will want to store backups on a separate hard drive (or multiple hard drives for redundancy.)

As far as HDV goes, I do like that the tapes are cheap and can be kept as an additional backup. But over the long term, the DV format will become obsolete and so cannot be a long-term storage or backup solution.

 

[harcosparky]

What about motor noise from the tape cams? I have a 5 year old camcorder that records the noise of the drive mechanism. It is really annoying. Has that become better with newer cameras?

I'm also looking to get a camcorder soon and that is my major complain against tape. NOISY!!!

I just got back last night from taping ..... yes i said TAPING a high school concert.

Tape transport NOISE??????? I have not had that issue since the days of VHS camcorders!!!!!

We used two camcorders for the concert, one with the internal mic and one with a wireless mic. ( we had a wireless mic up on stage )

Both camcorders were HV30 from Canon - oh and we had an old MiniDV Camcorder from Sony.

I love how people recommend the HDD/DVD camcorders with .....

" I recommend you got with AVCHD and a Hard Drive because .... well I have one! "

I have digital video on MiniDV tape going back over 8 years, maybe more. Even some on Digital8 that may be older showing no signs of degredation.

Tapes STRETCHING ????

Sure that happened with BETA and VHS when people put them on PAUSE while PLAYING.

Most camcorders today are designed to prevent any stretching, even during rewind when stretching can occur the speed of the rewind slows down during the last minute or so.

Before I bought my HV30's I did a lot of research, and some of my posts in the past bear this out .....

I even came here to see what was going on, I saw some posts explaining how HDV was superior in quality to AVCHD, saw a lot of posts saying ...
" Go with AVCHD because I bought one. " Sorry but I find that AVCHD argument to be humorous.

What happens when the HDD in a AVCHD camcorder fails?

At least with a tape based unit, if the camcorder fails ... your video is still on the tape.

 

[AviationFan]

Tape transport NOISE??????? I have not had that issue since the days of VHS camcorders!!!!!

Well, motor noise CAN sometimes be heard on a recording, depending on the circumstances. Needless to say: if top audio quality is one of your goals and you rely on a microphone on the camera (or, worse, built into it), then you are doing something wrong to begin with.

- Martin

 

[Lupusik]

To all who say tapes are cheaper than HDD...
Well, that was true, but now, in fact HDD is cheaper than a tape.

You get 500GB HDD for 80$. That's enough for storing 45 hours of video in 25 Mbps.

For 80$ you will get 40 mini-DV tapes. That's 40 hours of 25 Mbps video.

And guess what? HDDs will get cheaper and cheaper, while tapes will not. Thus, the best backups already are on hard drives.


Some said that when you record on tapes you are limited only to the amount of tape you take along... Well, OK, but you can take with you an external hard drive as well!

If you can take 20 tapes with you for a trip, you can as well take a laptop and an external 250GB HDD.

 

[guyholmes]

But trouble is, yes $ / min, I know Hard Drives are now working out cheaper, but I could never commit 45 hours of footage on to one HDD. With the failure rate of drives (which isn't high, but you know they are going to corrupt or fail at some point) you would really need two back up drives, the original 500GB and a separate one, or RAID setup. I would say, thats probably a minimum, so basically doubles the cost.

 

[harcosparky]

To all who say tapes are cheaper than HDD...
Well, that was true, but now, in fact HDD is cheaper than a tape.

You get 500GB HDD for 80$. That's enough for storing 45 hours of video in 25 Mbps.

For 80$ you will get 40 mini-DV tapes. That's 40 hours of 25 Mbps video.

And guess what? HDDs will get cheaper and cheaper, while tapes will not. Thus, the best backups already are on hard drives.


Some said that when you record on tapes you are limited only to the amount of tape you take along... Well, OK, but you can take with you an external hard drive as well!

If you can take 20 tapes with you for a trip, you can as well take a laptop and an external 250GB HDD.

Ayup .... HDD is cheaper and the FAILURE RATE is much much higher.

I'd rather carry 40 tapes, than have to lug around a laptop and an external HDD.

When you carry around a Laptop, an HDD, and an HDD based camcorder you now have yourself dependent upon 3 HDD's that have a higher failure rate than a MiniDV tape.

Things never go wrong, until you are out in the field.

Oh and in the event a tape should fail, usually it is a break in the tape, much easier to repair and recover from than should a HDD fail.


And then of course there is video quality - Tape still wins out over AVCHD

We have now added another HV30 to our 'stable'

 

[willywilly99]

Yes tapes are cheap, but can stretch and have been known to get damaged.

If the camcorder has a hard drive, the original footage is left unaltered on the hard drive if you need to re-edit, but yes it is advisable to back up to DVD

I do not consider AVCHD to be inferior in any way.

I'm getting an 8 core Mac Pro (when the new ones hit in the new year) 4GB Ram, 3 or 4 HDs that will be running Final Cut Studio2.
I've heard that video editors don't handle AVCHD too well, but would that Mac Pro really have a problem?
I would like to edit in the original 1080 25p (PAL) without having to convert to SD.

 

[harcosparky]

I'm getting an 8 core Mac Pro (when the new ones hit in the new year) 4GB Ram, 3 or 4 HDs that will be running Final Cut Studio2.
I've heard that video editors don't handle AVCHD too well, but would that Mac Pro really have a problem?
I would like to edit in the original 1080 25p (PAL) without having to convert to SD.

I do not believe the problems are with computer hardware, but with the software being compatible with the various AVCHD formats, some ACVHD camcorders are compatible, others may not be.

The issue will be a possible conflict with Final Cut Studio2 and the camcorder, or any other editor for that matter.

That is not an issue with tape based HDV, and this is one of the reasons I opted to go with tape.

I was honestly on the cusp of going AVCHD in a Sony unit, but changed my mind at the last minute. Backwards compatibility with MiniDV and cross computer platform/software compatibility was also a major consideration.

 

[madmaxmedia]

The only good backup (tape, HDD, optical, whatever) is a redundant backup.

The question of whether tape or HDD is cheaper is irrelevant. But tapes are much cheaper than solid state memory though, for original capture. Whether that matters depends on the user.

After original capture, you would ideally have multiple backups of archived footage, whether it be multiple HD's or DV tape + HD. DV tape just happens to be cheap enough that you can keep your tapes for archive, rather than re-recording on them as with solid state memory.

To all who say tapes are cheaper than HDD...
Well, that was true, but now, in fact HDD is cheaper than a tape.

You get 500GB HDD for 80$. That's enough for storing 45 hours of video in 25 Mbps.

For 80$ you will get 40 mini-DV tapes. That's 40 hours of 25 Mbps video.

And guess what? HDDs will get cheaper and cheaper, while tapes will not. Thus, the best backups already are on hard drives.


Some said that when you record on tapes you are limited only to the amount of tape you take along... Well, OK, but you can take with you an external hard drive as well!

If you can take 20 tapes with you for a trip, you can as well take a laptop and an external 250GB HDD.

 

[willbrink]

One issue I didn't see mentioned here regarding tapes is moisture. It's been very rainy here and the moisture sensor in my Sony DCR-HC28 kept going off, often right in the middle of filming. Run a low set/warm hair dryer over it and it would be fine. Real PITA. That's one reason I was leaning toward a cam with an HD. Anyone experience that problem?

 

[CMD is me]

Anyone experience that problem?

With HDV? Yep.

Now the longer version: I had a problem with a minDV several years ago. I figured it was due to dirty heads, rollers, etc. but did loose the ability to shoot our entire Florida summer vacation. I bought another miniDV (16:9 native) and never had an issue in 3 yrs.

When it came to upgrading to HD I opted for a Sony HDV. I REALLY wanted to go tapeless, but between AVCHD issues and reading "HDV is still the best" posts I decided to keep it old school... well... just took a trip to FLa again and guess what... ... on our last day got up early to shoot the sunrise, but the camera had a condensation error...... Of course we had the A/C on and it was hot/humid outside (which is everywhere in the south in the summer). Every morning I set the camera near the screen door to climatize it. But that morning was too much I guess. I took it inside and put a hair dryer on it for a minute. Nothing. Another minute. Nothing. Set it aside (open) for 10 minutes then blow-dried. Nothing. Finally I pulled the battery out which must have reset the error code. Worked fine.... but half hour had passed and sunrise was well gone.

A local camera shop was willing to loan me their demos. I had the chance to shoot with a HC9 (HDV) and SR12 (HDD). The video looked nearly the same. I'd give a very slight edge to the HC9, but the SR12 was more fun to shoot with -- perhaps just the perception of new technology, but it was pretty slick (instant capture, playback, etc).

Then I shot with the HC9, a Canon HV30 (HDV) and SR10 (HDD) and the HV30 looked best of the 3 (SR10 uses a smaller sensor than the 11/12), but it felt cheap and again the tapeless was more fun to use.

The HF100 (SDHC) is said to be nearly identical to the HV30 during playback. To some, the HV30 has a slightly better image, but many also complain about motor noise (google it). The HF100 is also flash based so no issues of bad hard drives! I just bought a HF100 but have yet to try it. I hope to try it against a HV30, but frankly the A/B testing is a lot of work (not to mention driving across town to the shop).

One more note re: tape vs tapeless... I also had major dropouts when using your standard Costco 4 pk miniDVs with Sony (not so with the Canon). I researched it and it appears Sony does like Sony brand HD tapes. BUT it is also advised to only let the tape pass the heads twice -- once for recording and once for capture. That way you ensure less chance of particle loss. I did and no dropouts in 4 hours... again, why tapeless is fun to shoot with -- instant replay without the issues of metallic evaporative material.

 

[willbrink]

With HDV? Yep.

Now the longer version: I had a problem with a minDV several years ago. I figured it was due to dirty heads, rollers, etc. but did loose the ability to shoot our entire Florida summer vacation. I bought another miniDV (16:9 native) and never had an issue in 3 yrs.

When it came to upgrading to HD I opted for a Sony HDV. I REALLY wanted to go tapeless, but between AVCHD issues and reading "HDV is still the best" posts I decided to keep it old school... well... just took a trip to FLa again and guess what... ... on our last day got up early to shoot the sunrise, but the camera had a condensation error...... Of course we had the A/C on and it was hot/humid outside (which is everywhere in the south in the summer). Every morning I set the camera near the screen door to climatize it. But that morning was too much I guess. I took it inside and put a hair dryer on it for a minute. Nothing. Another minute. Nothing. Set it aside (open) for 10 minutes then blow-dried. Nothing. Finally I pulled the battery out which must have reset the error code. Worked fine.... but half hour had passed and sunrise was well gone.

A local camera shop was willing to loan me their demos. I had the chance to shoot with a HC9 (HDV) and SR12 (HDD). The video looked nearly the same. I'd give a very slight edge to the HC9, but the SR12 was more fun to shoot with -- perhaps just the perception of new technology, but it was pretty slick (instant capture, playback, etc).

Then I shot with the HC9, a Canon HV30 (HDV) and SR10 (HDD) and the HV30 looked best of the 3 (SR10 uses a smaller sensor than the 11/12), but it felt cheap and again the tapeless was more fun to use.

The HF100 (SDHC) is said to be nearly identical to the HV30 during playback. To some, the HV30 has a slightly better image, but many also complain about motor noise (google it). The HF100 is also flash based so no issues of bad hard drives! I just bought a HF100 but have yet to try it. I hope to try it against a HV30, but frankly the A/B testing is a lot of work (not to mention driving across town to the shop).

One more note re: tape vs tapeless... I also had major dropouts when using your standard Costco 4 pk miniDVs with Sony (not so with the Canon). I researched it and it appears Sony does like Sony brand HD tapes. BUT it is also advised to only let the tape pass the heads twice -- once for recording and once for capture. That way you ensure less chance of particle loss. I did and no dropouts in 4 hours... again, why tapeless is fun to shoot with -- instant replay without the issues of metallic evaporative material.

My MinDV is in the shop now as the moisture sensor finally got worse and worse and simply would not shut off 4 days after the warranty ended. Been very rainy in the New England area. I have to have a cam for work related reasons, and the moisture issue seems more common then some may realize. Really screwed me up the other day. Now I can't figure out what the hell to do, get another tape set up (with potentially the same issue) or an HD set up?

Purchased a Sony SR10 only to find out the AVCHD does not work with a Mac G5 series comp. Taking it back to the store shortly. Now what???!!!