B&W Powermac G3 Cpu upgrades

Discussion in 'PowerPC Macs' started by Haemoglobin, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. Haemoglobin macrumors member

    Haemoglobin

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Location:
    England, inside a house, sitting on a chair
    #1
    I never really looking in to this, but out of curiosity does anyone know what CPU options are available for ye old blue & white G3? :p
     
  2. d-oost macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
  3. Haemoglobin thread starter macrumors member

    Haemoglobin

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Location:
    England, inside a house, sitting on a chair
  4. d-oost macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    #4
    Yeah, those use the CPU Connector introduced with the PowerMac G4 Sawtooth. The B&W G3 and very first model G4 (Yikes! as Apple dubbed it) used a different CPU ZIF socket. They usually are rectangular cards like show below, and have pins on the bottom in a square lineup:

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Haemoglobin thread starter macrumors member

    Haemoglobin

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Location:
    England, inside a house, sitting on a chair
    #5
    Thanks, I'm trying to find a G4 upgrade for my B&W.
     
  6. d-oost macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2016
    #6
    If you want just a G4, you could install a CPU from the Yikes! PowerMac G4. After installing this, you should be able to drop one in and use it.
     
  7. bunnspecial macrumors 604

    bunnspecial

    Joined:
    May 3, 2014
    Location:
    Kentucky
    #7
    Not the best option in my experience, especially if it's a Rev. A. I've attempted installing them in both beige and B&W G3s, and get some really weird, buggy, and inexplicable problems(like only wanting to boot with one RAM stick installed).

    I've had a handful of ZIFs from the major players, and most work without much trouble once the firmware is patched to allow for a G4. Where possible, I always point people toward Sonnets. Among other things, many upgrades require you to tweak the jumpers to get the processor running at its rated clock speeds, while Sonnets are(mostly) plug and play.

    The 700mhz-1ghz Sonnets are very "sexy"(and often quite expensive) but I'm not wild about using them in B&Ws. The reason is that they require you to drop the bus speed to 66mhz. I've actually run one in a B&W(the only one I have is in a beige tower) but this gets rid of a lot of the inherent speed advantages of the B&W as compared to the beige.

    I'm actually a really big fan of the Powerlogix/PowerForce high speed G3 upgrades. I'm running a 1ghz one now in a Rev. B B&W tower, and it's faster than my 1ghz Sonnet ZIF(admittedly in a beige, but remember the 66mhz bus speed) for anything that DOES NOT make use of Altivec. It also runs cool with the stock heatsink and no extra fans, while the Sonnet has a huge integrated heat sink with a couple of fans(plus needs extra power).

    On the whole, though, one of the nicest G4 ZIF upgrades I've used is a little 500mhz Sonnet that is plug and play(again, patch the firmware on a B&W to allow a G4) and works with a stock heatsink. I have it in my beige AIO, and it just works-that computer proved especially cantankerous with a couple of other CPU upgrades.
     
  8. Haemoglobin thread starter macrumors member

    Haemoglobin

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Location:
    England, inside a house, sitting on a chair
    #8
    I suspect that is what i have in it atm, I've not used my B&W for some time. I actually prefer my PM8500, as I found the B&W a bit slow and sluggish. I did install an PCI ATA card, due to the 10gb limit on the onboard motherboard.
     
  9. Project Alice macrumors 6502a

    Project Alice

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Location:
    Post Falls, ID
    #9
    The 8GB boot partition limit? The B/W G3's onboard ATA bus supports up to 128GB.

    Also following this thread; I have been scouring the web for a ZIF G4 as well.
     
  10. Haemoglobin thread starter macrumors member

    Haemoglobin

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Location:
    England, inside a house, sitting on a chair
    #10
    Was it 8gb? I just recall swapping out the old 10gb drive and it corrupting my 20gb drive.
     
  11. bunnspecial macrumors 604

    bunnspecial

    Joined:
    May 3, 2014
    Location:
    Kentucky
    #11
    The onboard ATA controllers of OWR Macs than can run OS X generally require that it be installed in the first partition on the drive, and that partition can be no larger than 8gb. Of course, there's also a global limit that caps the drive size at 128gb on all PowerMacs before-I think-the Quicksilver 2002. This can be worked around with software tools, but you still have to have the first partition be 128gb or smaller as the computer can't read it otherwise. I take care of a "mission critical" G4 at work(now a Sawtooth, although it's been a couple of other boxes, including at one point a Quicksilver with a 466mhz processor card). Probably two years ago, I fitted an NOS 160gb drive(the smallest I had) to try and curb a bout of "salvage" HDD failures-it's ticking along just fine formatted to 128gb.

    The 8500 and 8600 didn't have on-board ATA controllers, and I don't THINK the limit is there on the SCSI controller. Good luck finding a 50 pin drive where you run into that limit, although if you adapted 68 or 80 pin drives you certainly can. Most folks(myself included) do just run ATA drives on these computers, though, when running OS X since the available bootable ATA cards(both Sonnet and Acard) both remove the 8gb OS X issue and the 128gb drive cap. ATA drives are also a LOT easier to find. If it weren't for the fact that I have better uses for my bootable SATA cards, I'd run SATA drives in my 8600. The only beige computer I have that boots OS X off SCSI was not set up by me, and it uses a 68 pin drive run off a factory "Jackhammer" card.

    In Apple's mind, I'm sure that the 8gb OS X thing wasn't really an issue for computers like the beige G3 or Wallstreet/PDQ since those computers didn't generally ship with drives that large(most of my beige G3s that came to me with their factory drive had a 4gb WD Caviar). Also, the computers didn't officially support anything newer than 10.2, and 8gb is passable for that. IMO, 8gb is "tight" for 10.4.11(which you can on a beige G3 with Xpostfacto) and unacceptable for Leopard(which needs a G4 and a lot of tweaking).

    In any case, the 8gb issue isn't there in B&Ws. As a side note, the factory drive that I've seen in a decent number of them is a 12gb Quantum Fireball. You can feel free to use the on-board controller to run any drive up to 128gb, or even larger if you either want to just forget the extra capacity above 128gb or make the first partition that size or smaller and use a software tool to enable the extra capacity.
     
  12. Haemoglobin thread starter macrumors member

    Haemoglobin

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Location:
    England, inside a house, sitting on a chair
    #12
    Thats probably where I ran a foul. When I replaced the 10gb drive in my rev 1 B&W, I put a 20gb drive in its place with just a single partition. After an hour the system started acting weird, errors etc. I think I was on 68kmla when I was told the rev 1 boards have a drive capacity limit. I installed a PCI 133ATA card which not only bypassed the issue but also gave me a quicker data transfer speed.

    Bare in mind all of this happened in about 2004-5 and I've had a few sleeps since then :p

    I would some day like to swap out the rev 1 board out the later rev 2.
     
  13. bunnspecial macrumors 604

    bunnspecial

    Joined:
    May 3, 2014
    Location:
    Kentucky
    #13
    Rev. A B&W G3s are weird computers. I have a couple kicking around, but I tend to use the Rev. Bs when I want to do special projects.

    @LightBulbFun has a real dislike of Rev. As. A while back, two popped up on Ebay UK that I really wanted-one had a 1ghz PowerLogix G3, and the other a Voodoo 5 5500 GPU(both rare upgrades). Since it would have cost a fortune to ship both across the pond, and I'd have ended up with a pile of broken plastic when they got here, I asked him if I could have them shipped to him and then have him relay JUST the parts I wanted over here for me to assemble into one of my B&Ws. He was happy to do it, especially since it meant him getting to play with two pieces of rare hardware for a few days, and also got two B&Ws out of the deal. The only problem was that both were Rev. As, and I got to listen to him complain about me dumping two more Rev. A computers on him :) (I should mention that he and I are good friends, and his "complaining" was all in good fun-plus he was doing me a huge favor).

    In any case, there's not to my knowledge any kind of 8gb restriction on any B&W. I don't want to speak ill of other fora, but 68kmla is not exactly my favorite place to turn for information on PPC stuff, especially NWR systems. It's hard to have productive discussions when one of the administrators is quite vocal about his dislike of those particular systems both from when they were current and any attempt at their continued use.
     
  14. Haemoglobin thread starter macrumors member

    Haemoglobin

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Location:
    England, inside a house, sitting on a chair
    #14
    I guess that's probably going to be the best way of finding an upgrade for my system. Occasionally i swap around my 8500 for my B&W. Having read more online, I'm beginning to think the HD corruption cropped up when I added the new HD as a 2nd drive. Which apparently the Rev A's don't like.

    As I said I've slept since I had all these issues and forgotten some of the details. I know buying the PCI ATA card really sped up the system. Still my G3 500 Pismo wipes the floor with it.
     
  15. LightBulbFun macrumors 68020

    LightBulbFun

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Location:
    London UK
    #15
    one of which ended up donating its MPC106 Grackle "North bridge" to a G3 beige https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ige-xpc106-memory-controller-upgrade.2119510/ :D

    It is worth mentioning the ATA16 Optical drive channel on a G3 BW/Yikes! uses the same Heathrow ATA controller that the G3 Beige and iMac G3 Tray loader use so MAY have the same 8GB Boot partition limit but its not something I have actively tested.

    indeed on Rev A G3 BWs you cant have a Master slave configuration on the main HDD ATA channel.
     
  16. Haemoglobin thread starter macrumors member

    Haemoglobin

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Location:
    England, inside a house, sitting on a chair
    #16
    Just reflecting on the conversation thus far and a comment made about another vintage mac forum I visit. Since joining here, I have to say the experience has been great, everyone seems more animated to interact and discuss :)
     
  17. Project Alice macrumors 6502a

    Project Alice

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Location:
    Post Falls, ID
    #17
    Totally. I love macrumors. I have an account at macos9lives, but other than that I don't care to have an account anywhere else. Just finding other forums from googling an issue that ends up somewhere other than here (ie mac-forums) usually leads the OP in the wrong direction or just very vague answers that are unhelpful.
     

Share This Page

16 December 5, 2018