Bad Drivers

[Gutwrench]

Yellows lights are 3-4 seconds long. In Cali, if you get a yellow you better damn STOP because red is one second away.

Signal timing is designed to meet changing travel patterns and distinct intersection characteristics. Signals can be: preset timing, semi-actuated, and fully actuated. The phase intervals are based on certain parameters such as: change period, perception and reaction time, speed on approach, deceleration rate, grade and conditions, width of intersection, and vehicle size.

California MUTCD guidelines are 3-6 seconds yellow with red clearance intervals no longer than 6 seconds. Most red clearance intervals at .5 to 2 seconds.

If you’re seeing one second yellows commonly then it’s a head scratcher.

 

[eyoungren]

Signal timing is designed to meet changing travel patterns and distinct intersection characteristics. Signals can be: preset timing, semi-actuated, and fully actuated. The phase intervals are based on certain parameters such as: change period, perception and reaction time, speed on approach, deceleration rate, grade and conditions, width of intersection, and vehicle size.

California MUTCD guidelines are 3-6 seconds yellow with red clearance intervals no longer than 6 seconds. Most red clearance intervals at .5 to 2 seconds.

If you’re seeing one second yellows commonly then it’s a head scratcher.

Well, things may have changed. But this was pretty much the way it was from 1986 (the year I got my license) to 2000 when I left California.

Or at the very least it's what it appeared to be. I've been back several times over the last 18 years though and it doesn't seem like the yellow light timing has changed at all.

Regardless though (and not to invalidate your facts), Arizona drivers tend to treat yellow lights as a suggestion rather than a command. Out here it means "Go faster!" California drivers tend to hit their brakes when they see a yellow light while Arizona drivers tend to hit the accelerator.

I can't quote you statistics, but as I may have mentioned somewhere in this thread, Phoenix alone is one of the red-light running capitols of the US. And that's due to Arizona's less stringent "limit line" rules compared to California as well as the longer yellow lights which tend to encourage this sort of thing.

 

[TechZeke]

Signal timing is designed to meet changing travel patterns and distinct intersection characteristics. Signals can be: preset timing, semi-actuated, and fully actuated. The phase intervals are based on certain parameters such as: change period, perception and reaction time, speed on approach, deceleration rate, grade and conditions, width of intersection, and vehicle size.

California MUTCD guidelines are 3-6 seconds yellow with red clearance intervals no longer than 6 seconds. Most red clearance intervals at .5 to 2 seconds.

If you’re seeing one second yellows commonly then it’s a head scratcher.

Well, things may have changed. But this was pretty much the way it was from 1986 (the year I got my license) to 2000 when I left California.

Or at the very least it's what it appeared to be. I've been back several times over the last 18 years though and it doesn't seem like the yellow light timing has changed at all.

Regardless though (and not to invalidate your facts), Arizona drivers tend to treat yellow lights as a suggestion rather than a command. Out here it means "Go faster!" California drivers tend to hit their brakes when they see a yellow light while Arizona drivers tend to hit the accelerator.

I can't quote you statistics, but as I may have mentioned somewhere in this thread, Phoenix alone is one of the red-light running capitols of the US. And that's due to Arizona's less stringent "limit line" rules compared to California as well as the longer yellow lights which tend to encourage this sort of thing.

Gutwrench's info is correct. (I graduated this past March with a BS in Civil Engineering with an emphasis on transportation/traffic)

I live in the Inland Empire, and the Yellow times seem fine to me. I've seen some pretty long yellow times.

 

[eyoungren]

Gutwrench's info is correct. (I graduated this past March with a BS in Civil Engineering with an emphasis on transportation/traffic)

I live in the Inland Empire, and the Yellow times seem fine to me. I've seen some pretty long yellow times.

Interesting. I'm not arguing his facts though. I just don't remember it that way. Perhaps it may have been the places I lived, worked and played in, IDK.

I was in the IE for 20 years. Riverside County. Lived in Cherry Valley, worked and played west and east of that as far as Indio and Ontario.

 

[907]

Signal timing is designed to meet changing travel patterns and distinct intersection characteristics. Signals can be: preset timing, semi-actuated, and fully actuated. The phase intervals are based on certain parameters such as: change period, perception and reaction time, speed on approach, deceleration rate, grade and conditions, width of intersection, and vehicle size.

California MUTCD guidelines are 3-6 seconds yellow with red clearance intervals no longer than 6 seconds. Most red clearance intervals at .5 to 2 seconds.

If you’re seeing one second yellows commonly then it’s a head scratcher.

Cities have been caught shortening the time on yellows to increase revenue from red light cameras. One second yellows seems like a bit of an exaggeration, but you shouldn't be too surprised to see yellows that are too short to safely stop or make it through the intersection because some towns want the ticket revenue.

 

[eyoungren]

Cities have been caught shortening the time on yellows to increase revenue from red light cameras. One second yellows seems like a bit of an exaggeration, but you shouldn't be too surprised to see yellows that are too short to safely stop or make it through the intersection because some towns want the ticket revenue.

I had a CHP officer pull me over late one night when making a right turn at the end of an offramp close to home. "No Right on Red" posted sign and I knew it and all that.

Thing was that when I made my turn the light was yellow. And the officer knew it. When he pulled me over I didn't shut the car off which annoyed him so he told me to do that.

THAT annoyed me because I had an iffy battery at the time and I wasn't going to shut the car off that close to home to find out I couldn't start it again. So I told him that. Then he proceeds to tell me what I already know about the no right on red and the damn sign.

I growled back at him ('cause I was annoyed he pulled me over for no reason) "The light was YELLOW when I went through it!"

He looked at me and the only response I got was "Have a good night!"

I'm not stupid. I knew the cop was behind me when I got off the freeway and I lived in that area so I knew about the sign and the prohibition. Had it switched to red by the time I got to the end of the ramp I would have made a complete stop and waited for green to turn.

 

[907]

I had a CHP officer pull me over late one night when making a right turn at the end of an offramp close to home. "No Right on Red" posted sign and I knew it and all that.

Thing was that when I made my turn the light was yellow. And the officer knew it. When he pulled me over I didn't shut the car off which annoyed him so he told me to do that.

THAT annoyed me because I had an iffy battery at the time and I wasn't going to shut the car off that close to home to find out I couldn't start it again. So I told him that. Then he proceeds to tell me what I already know about the no right on red and the damn sign.

I growled back at him ('cause I was annoyed he pulled me over for no reason) "The light was YELLOW when I went through it!"

He looked at me and the only response I got was "Have a good night!"

I'm not stupid. I knew the cop was behind me when I got off the freeway and I lived in that area so I knew about the sign and the prohibition.

He was probably hoping you wouldn't put up too much of a fuss, and he could get one more towards his quota for giving out tickets that shift.

 

[eyoungren]

He was probably hoping you wouldn't put up too much of a fuss, and he could get one more towards his quota for giving out tickets that shift.

Yeah he was. And that in large part was why I was pissed about it. He was looking for an easy mark.

 

[Gutwrench]

I had a CHP officer pull me over late one night when making a right turn at the end of an offramp close to home. "No Right on Red" posted sign and I knew it and all that.

Thing was that when I made my turn the light was yellow. And the officer knew it.

I wasn’t CHP or a motor unit but it’s common knowledge in California LE yellow is not violation. (I could not chase tail lights as a career.)

A driver may enter an intersection during the entire yellow interval and may remain there in the red indication as long as they entered on the yellow. 21452 & 21453 VC

 

[eyoungren]

I wasn’t CHP or a motor unit but it’s common knowledge in California LE yellow is not violation. (I could not chase tail lights as a career.)

A driver may enter an intersection during the entire yellow interval and may remain there in the red indication as long as they entered on the yellow. 21452 & 21453 VC

I used to work with a guy who's dad was a CHP officer. Growing up, we lived catty corner to a CHP officer and I had a friend that became a Riverside County Sheriff's Deputy.

I've spent quite some time fighting tickets in court, much to my wife's indignation, because I've picked up a few things here and there through all of these associations. I've also caught a few breaks here and there.

The one that gets my wife the most is the right on red in Redlands. The city had just put the no right on red sign up on a corner that had never had it and city cops had gone so far as to set up cones that led right to a parking lot where a waiting officer would issue you a ticket.

I took that one before the judge and got it dismissed for Lack of Prosecution. Saved us $300.

On the other hand, my first ticket was for 80mph in a 55mph zone (I-15 near Barstow). But both the cop writing the ticket and I knew I was doing 90mph at the time. He was nice enough to cut me a break.

 

[Gutwrench]

I had a judge pro tem dismiss a red light cite because the lady claimed she was pregnant and had to pee. I don’t recall her saying anything like that at the time. Lol! Good for her tho.

I cited a neurologist for exhibition of speed and reckless (both misdemeanors). I could have cited evading too but didn’t. He fought it and became argumentative with the judge.

The judge was annoyed and told him the possible sentence could be $5000 and six months in jail. Then he said “And that’s the sentence I prescribe. How do you like that?” The doctor stuttered saying “I’m I’m overwhelmed.”

The judge reduced the fine to $1k and suspended the jail sentence saying he would impose the jail if (and I don’t recall the condition today).

I used to work with a guy who's dad was a CHP officer. Growing up, we lived catty corner to a CHP officer and I had a friend that became a Riverside County Sheriff's Deputy.

I've spent quite some time fighting tickets in court, much to my wife's indignation, because I've picked up a few things here and there through all of these associations. I've also caught a few breaks here and there.

The one that gets my wife the most is the right on red in Redlands. The city had just put the no right on red sign up on a corner that had never had it and city cops had gone so far as to set up cones that led right to a parking lot where a waiting officer would issue you a ticket.

I took that one before the judge and got it dismissed for Lack of Prosecution. Saved us $300.

On the other hand, my first ticket was for 80mph in a 55mph zone (I-15 near Barstow). But both the cop writing the ticket and I knew I was doing 90mph at the time. He was nice enough to cut me a break.

 

[eyoungren]

I had a judge pro tem dismiss a red light cite because the lady claimed she was pregnant and had to pee. I don’t recall her saying anything like that at the time. Lol! Good for her tho.

I cited a neurologist for exhibition of speed and reckless (both misdemeanors). I could have cited evading too but didn’t. He fought it and became argumentative with the judge.

The judge was annoyed and told him the possible sentence could be $5000 and six months in jail. Then he said “And that’s the sentence I prescribe. How do you like that?” The doctor stuttered saying “I’m I’m overwhelmed.”

The judge reduced the fine to $1k and suspended the jail sentence saying he would impose the jail if (and I don’t recall the condition today).

Ahhh…you are one of those officers I fear!

Meaning…you show up for court when the ticket is being fought.

As a routine, I plead not guilty and set a court date. If my officer doesn't show I'm fortunate. But if the officer DOES show, it's been my experience that the judge if often more lenient with fines than what the fine would be if I had actually just paid it.

Other times, traffic school has been the only real option for me then.

I had a CHP officer pull me over outside of Blythe for speeding when we were returning to Phoenix once. As you probably know, CHP tends to show up.

I did my best by rescheduling twice but he was there, LOL!

I didn't even get to the explanation though. There was some sort of SNAFU and both the judge and the bailiff were under the assumption that I had not paid the fine ahead of time. The bailiff was actually approaching me with handcuffs out before I was able to tell the judge I'd already paid!

The clerk of the court got busy, told the judge "Yes, he paid" and only then did the bailiff back off.

But it turned out ok. There was a difference of about $150 between what I'd paid and the fine the judge imposed so I got that back.

I've never been so glad I paid my fine up front though. Would have been tough explaining to my wife and my boss how I was in a Blythe jail 2.5 hours away from Phoenix!

 

[Gutwrench]

I didn’t always show up but usually did. I worked graves so 8 or 10 am traffic court was easy to make for a 4 hour minimum. The 2 pm traffic hearings were a beast to make because I lived 45 minutes away.

I spent more time in superior court and those are true subpoenas which you can’t FTA on. I’ve seen judges issue warrants on cops for not showing up in muni or super court.

Everyone I knew ran a warrant check on people before court, even traffic court. We all knew the judges well and they knew us too well too.

We’d meet the traffic judge in his/her chamber ahead of court to let them know the defendant had a warrant. After the judge decided the case s/he would address the defendant saying ‘there’s one other matter.’ Then s/he say something to the effect ‘officer, I understand the defendant has an outstanding warrant. Please take him/her into custody in a manner prescribed by law.”

They’d get hooked up and escorted out of court. You could hear a pin drop from the other defendants waiting for their case to be heard. Lol kinda cruel but amusing. Traffic court was usually a blast. It was often hard to keep a straight face in court with some of the behind the scene antics going on.

Ahhh…you are one of those officers I fear!

Meaning…you show up for court when the ticket is being fought.

As a routine, I plead not guilty and set a court date. If my officer doesn't show I'm fortunate. But if the officer DOES show, it's been my experience that the judge if often more lenient with fines than what the fine would be if I had actually just paid it.

Other times, traffic school has been the only real option for me then.

I had a CHP officer pull me over outside of Blythe for speeding when we were returning to Phoenix once. As you probably know, CHP tends to show up.

I did my best by rescheduling twice but he was there, LOL!

I didn't even get to the explanation though. There was some sort of SNAFU and both the judge and the bailiff were under the assumption that I had not paid the fine ahead of time. The bailiff was actually approaching me with handcuffs out before I was able to tell the judge I'd already paid!

The clerk of the court got busy, told the judge "Yes, he paid" and only then did the bailiff back off.

But it turned out ok. There was a difference of about $150 between what I'd paid and the fine the judge imposed so I got that back.

I've never been so glad I paid my fine up front though. Would have been tough explaining to my wife and my boss how I was in a Blythe jail 2.5 hours away from Phoenix!

 

[eyoungren]

Traffic court was usually a blast. It was often hard to keep a straight face in court with some of the behind the scene antics going on.

Yeah, it always surprised me how many people plead guilty or no contest and waived their right to trial. The explanations were often hilarious to hear and most of them didn't understand that the first appearance was just for entering your plea.

I've seen more than one person arrested right in court precisely because of warrants (as you indicate).

 

[TechZeke]

Yeah, it always surprised me how many people plead guilty or no contest and waived their right to trial. The explanations were often hilarious to hear and most of them didn't understand that the first appearance was just for entering your plea.

I've seen more than one person arrested right in court precisely because of warrants (as you indicate).

For the one time I went to traffic court, if you plead guilty the judge would half your fine, extend your fee deadlines or give you a break if you failed to appear or had a previous infraction before. A lot easier for everyone, and I was definitely happy to pay the $150 instead of $350 and/or having to go to trial. It was just a single speeding ticket, so after doing the online traffic school I didn’t get a point on my record anyway.

 

[Gutwrench]

For the one time I went to traffic court, if you plead guilty the judge would half your fine or give you a break if you failed to appear or had a previous infraction before. Allot easier for everyone, and I was definitely happy to pay the $150 instead of $350 and/or having to go to trial. It was just a single speeding ticket, so after doing the online traffic school I didn’t get a point on my record anyway.

Ouch. I’m not sure I’d plead not guilty and request traffic court only to change my plea at the bench when my case is called. Of course if the cop fta’s you’ll likely get it dismissed.

Tickets are expensive in California. The fine the judges handed out in court usually seemed less than the bail on the ticket if someone had just paid it by mail. But the defendants had a shock coming when they arrived at the counter to pay the fine down the hall. Once the court fee and country charges are added on to the fine levied by the judge in court they’re paying about double than what they expected.

The deputies in that room were high visibility to keep the peace. Lol

Edit: I just saw “Allot easier for everyone, and I was definitely happy to pay the $150 instead of $350 and/or having to go to trial.“ I realize now that the process is different in your state. Sorry.

And by the way, congratulations on your engineering degree. That’s huge!

 

[eyoungren]

For the one time I went to traffic court, if you plead guilty the judge would half your fine, extend your fee deadlines or give you a break if you failed to appear or had a previous infraction before. A lot easier for everyone, and I was definitely happy to pay the $150 instead of $350 and/or having to go to trial. It was just a single speeding ticket, so after doing the online traffic school I didn’t get a point on my record anyway.

Yeah, it's always a balancing act.

Usually it went like this for me. With no points on my license a violation would cause me to ask for traffic school. But you can only take TS every 18 months (at least back in the 90s). So, a second violation had me debating. Most of the time, in my area, I could count on city cops not showing up and dismissal of my fine (no points). But if it was highway patrol I'd go trial and the judge usually would find in the cops favor, but my fine wouldn't be as much. Still points, but not paying as much.

With an offer such as you had I'd probably have taken it.. Everyone wins in that case and I'm going to end up with points on my license anyway so I'd rather take the offer of a reduced fine in the deal.

Usually by the third speeding ticket though I was cutting things very fine so it modified my behavior. There were several times where I had 4 points on my license though just because of speeding.

Fortunately the few times I could have been hauled in for reckless driving I was never caught. I once turned a normally 45 minute trip by freeway into a 20 minute drive (late for work).

But California handles reckless driving in relation to speed differently than Arizona (on the freeway at least). 100mph or more is reckless driving in CA, whereas in AZ anything 25mph above the speed limit is reckless driving.

So, 95mph and under in CA on the I-10 through the desert is (technically) a very expensive ticket whereas you cross into AZ where the speed limit on the I-10 is 70mph from Ehrenberg to Tonopah it's reckless driving.

All of this is academic now. I have two kids and way more to lose now financially so I stay within the limits I know law enforcement generally tolerates.

Legally I've never been in an accident from 1986 to present so I've never had to worry about the points that brings and the last time I had any trouble was over insurance and registration.

So my "system", such as it is hasn't been used for a very long time.

 

[TechZeke]

Ouch. I’m not sure I’d plead not guilty and request traffic court only to change my plea at the bench when my case is called. Of course if the cop fta’s you’ll likely get it dismissed.

Tickets are expensive in California. The fine the judges handed out in court usually seemed less than the bail on the ticket if someone had just paid it by mail. But the defendants had a shock coming when they arrived at the counter to pay the fine down the hall. Once the court fee and country charges are added on to the fine levied by the judge in court they’re paying about double than what they expected.

The deputies in that room were high visibility to keep the peace. Lol

Edit: I just saw “Allot easier for everyone, and I was definitely happy to pay the $150 instead of $350 and/or having to go to trial.“ I realize now that the process is different in your state. Sorry.

And by the way, congratulations on your engineering degree. That’s huge!

Interesting, I figured the process would be the same across all states.
Anyway, thanks!

Yeah, it's always a balancing act.

Usually it went like this for me. With no points on my license a violation would cause me to ask for traffic school. But you can only take TS every 18 months (at least back in the 90s). So, a second violation had me debating. Most of the time, in my area, I could count on city cops not showing up and dismissal of my fine (no points). But if it was highway patrol I'd go trial and the judge usually would find in the cops favor, but my fine wouldn't be as much. Still points, but not paying as much.

With an offer such as you had I'd probably have taken it.. Everyone wins in that case and I'm going to end up with points on my license anyway so I'd rather take the offer of a reduced fine in the deal.

Usually by the third speeding ticket though I was cutting things very fine so it modified my behavior. There were several times where I had 4 points on my license though just because of speeding.

Fortunately the few times I could have been hauled in for reckless driving I was never caught. I once turned a normally 45 minute trip by freeway into a 20 minute drive (late for work).

But California handles reckless driving in relation to speed differently than Arizona (on the freeway at least). 100mph or more is reckless driving in CA, whereas in AZ anything 25mph above the speed limit is reckless driving.

So, 95mph and under in CA on the I-10 through the desert is (technically) a very expensive ticket whereas you cross into AZ where the speed limit on the I-10 is 70mph from Ehrenberg to Tonopah it's reckless driving.

All of this is academic now. I have two kids and way more to lose now financially so I stay within the limits I know law enforcement generally tolerates.

Legally I've never been in an accident from 1986 to present so I've never had to worry about the points that brings and the last time I had any trouble was over insurance and registration.

So my "system", such as it is hasn't been used for a very long time.

I got the one speeding ticket and after that I won't go over 9 above the speed limit on surface streets unless the speed of surrounding traffic is faster. I have never speeded in school zones. I've had to slam on my brakes for careless children while going UNDER the 25 mph limit. Freeways in California are fair game(80-85mph is my cruising speed) as long as CHP isn't around. In other states, I won't go over 10 above on freeways because even local police are doing speed traps on freeways. That said, in a place like Texas the speed limits are also way more realistic to begin with (70-80mph vs 65mph in all but the most rural areas of California) so there's way less need to speed anyway.

 

[Gutwrench]

In other states, I won't over 10 above on freeways because even local police are doing speed traps on freeways.

That’s my habit too. I’ll travel 8-9 over on the freeways, but stick to the limit on surface streets.

On most city streets I travel at what my gut says is comfortable...and most of the time I’m at the posted limit. There’s a street by my home that is shockingly posted at 45 and 50 and it just feels too fast.

 

[eyoungren]

I got the one speeding ticket and after that I won't go over 9 above the speed limit on surface streets unless the speed of surrounding traffic is faster. I have never speeded in school zones. I've had to slam on my brakes for careless children while going UNDER the 25 mph limit. Freeways in California are fair game(80-90 is my cruising speed) as long as CHP isn't around. In other states, I won't over 10 above on freeways because even local police are doing speed traps on freeways. That said, in a place like Texas the speed limits are also way more realistic to begin with (70-80mph vs 65mph in all but most rural areas of California) so there's way less need to speed anyway.

At some point I settled on three speeds…

35mph in residential (which is what it was in California when I learned to drive) except where that may be unwise due to conditions (not necessarily weather).

45mph on surface streets. That seems to be a good speed that the cops won't pull you over for even in 35mph zones and I have never seen a 50mph zone on major surface streets.

70mph on freeways, slower under bad conditions.

If I am going from AZ to CA or CA to AZ I usually choose 80mph for the same reason I choose 45mph on surface streets.

Of course all of this is subject to any condition that dictates a slower speed. These are just my general speed choices.

So far it's worked for me. If I am late already I still stick to my speeds because I can't afford a speeding ticket on top of already being late.

However, sometimes I make the cops work for me. If a cop is speeding all you need to do is maintain a reasonable distance behind the cop while matching their speed. It's amazing how many people see a police vehicle in their rearview mirror and get over. Using the officer to break traffic for you like that is very useful to getting places faster.

 

[Gutwrench]

However, sometimes I make the cops work for me. If a cop is speeding all you need to do is maintain a reasonable distance behind the cop while matching their speed.

Just a word of caution...there is a term called reverse pace. It’s where a car is following and pacing a traffic cop (car or motor). The cop speeds up to see if you’ll increase your speed to match theirs. At 10 or 15 over they yield to the right then swing back in behind you and make the stop.

Im not a fan of it. I’ve heard of it three times in traffic court. The judge dismissed it once and allowed it twice.

 

[eyoungren]

Just a word of caution...there is a term called reverse pace. It’s where a car is following and pacing a traffic cop (car or motor). The cop speeds up to see if you’ll increase your speed to match theirs. At 10 or 15 over they yield to the right then swing back in behind you and make the stop.

Im not a fan of it. I’ve heard of it three times in traffic court. The judge dismissed it once and allowed it twice.

Oh yes, I'm aware of that. But other than the freeway (and even then not so much) if I see a cop going an excessive amount above the speed limit that's not anything I want to be a part of. A cop in that much of a hurry has an agenda and very often isn't alone.

I am extremely wary when I see a lone motorcycle officer. These guys patrol in pairs so if you are only seeing one, his partner is the other guy that's going to nail you.

 

[scubachap]

I think this elderly lady qualifies as a bad driver...

Reported quite widely here - took a wrong turn at a level crossing, drove along the tracks and only realised when she got to the train station. (I do sometimes wonder if there shouldn't be some sort of basic medical assessment beyond about say 75 etc)

 

[Matz]

That’s my habit too. I’ll travel 8-9 over on the freeways, but stick to the limit on surface streets.

On most city streets I travel at what my gut says is comfortable...and most of the time I’m at the posted limit. There’s a street by my home that is shockingly posted at 45 and 50 and it just feels too fast.

Pretty much my practice, also. In my area of VA, the interstate speed limits are 70. I’ve driven past many a speed trap doing 79, and they have yet to bat an eye. But if you go 80 (maybe it’s 81), it’ll earn you a reckless driving ticket. Cruise control is my friend.

Not to say I haven’t gone faster, but it’s rare that I do. Not worth that kind of ticket.

In residential areas, I tend to do the speed limit or a few over. certainly out of caution, but mostly out of respect. When I lived in the ‘burbs, I did not appreciate people speeding through the neighborhood, and I act accordingly.

Now, if someone speeds past my house, it is because they are well and truly lost. If not, that’s a topic for a different thread.

 

[I7guy]

I wasn’t CHP or a motor unit but it’s common knowledge in California LE yellow is not violation. (I could not chase tail lights as a career.)

A driver may enter an intersection during the entire yellow interval and may remain there in the red indication as long as they entered on the yellow. 21452 & 21453 VC

Then there’s the running a red light depending on the law if your front or back wheels were in the intersection at the time the light was red.