Not in California. As long as you are in the intersection on the yellow you can legally remain there on the red to complete the turn or exit.
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Bad Drivers
- Thread starter eyoungren
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Not in California. As long as you are in the intersection on the yellow you can legally remain there on the red to complete the turn or exit.
I think this is a pretty common rule. The point is you must CLEAR the intersection so traffic can flow. It still doesn’t mean people should be entering on a red.
No, not in California. A driver can’t enter the intersection (cross the limit line) on a red. They can be in the intersection finishing a turn or going straight on a red. The only issue is where exactly the car was when the light cycled to red.
If there is congestion in the same direction as the driver is traveling preventing them from exiting the intersection (and now they’re blocking traffic) then they might be in violation of an anti-gridlock section.
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I think that’s what I said. It’s a common rule not exclusive to Cali. I was just commenting on the why. I know someone who was in an accident in an intersection and was found at fault because they hit a car that was already in the intersection when the light changed. That car MUST clear the intersection and MUST be allowed to do so by the other direction of travel.
You say “clear the intersection” which means your vehicle has exited the intersection. If, to you, “clear the intersection” means to lawfully enter the intersection (the front of a car crosses the limit line) then we are indeed saying the same thing. Again, “clear” typically means to have exited.
And every state has their own definition of failure to yield on red and specifically when the violation is complete. I am discussing California law because it was the topic.
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Since you quoted the OP I have to add some thoughts to that old post. BTW, I wish many more people would ride around on bicycles and motorcycles. They’d be much more conscientious drivers.
Anyway, I completely disagree with the idea that people must always drive aggressively. A speed limit is just that, a LIMIT. Conditions and situational awareness prevail. In addition, there are rules that permit you to overtake slower traffic in most areas. There is farm equipment, bicycles, horses, and all sorts of other things sharing the road. People need to get over themselves.
Cars have become too isolating and too safe, combined with more distractions than ever. Phoenix is one of the deadliest places for pedestrians because drivers can’t be bothered with anything going on outside of their Twitter or FB feed. In fact, the majority of these incidents have been attributed to distracted driving.
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No, I’d say exited if I meant that. A car that enters an intersection on green or yellow must then clear it so as to not impede traffic. Not sure how this can be stated more clearly.
I agree there are different interpretations of red threshold but morally I’d say a law should require a safe stop on red. You may technically enter an intersection on red if it changed when you were a couple meters away but there would have been no way to safely stop so the law should acknowledge that.
What really boils my blood is when a car crosses the opposite direction after my direction has green. I know the other direction was red for at least two or three seconds. That’s attempted murder IMO.
This is one of the things I do miss from Cali here in AZ. There is no anti-gridlock law here so intersections and entrances/exits may be blocked by traffic. Where AZ or municipalities don't want a specific area blocked a sign is erected - which few people pay any attention to.
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I think there are some PHX pedestrians however that bear responsibility. Just as no one around here likes to stop at red lights, very few pedestrians adhere to crosswalks.
We have an epidemic of pedestrians who think it's okay to cross in the middle of the street any damn time they feel like it. The city of Glendale has gone so far as to put in a pedestrian crosswalk and light just east of 67th Ave on Glendale Ave (to the east of the apartment complex by Sonic). Very few people living in those apartments use that crosswalk. I go by all the time and there are people standing in the center turn lane because they can't be bothered to use the designated crosswalk that is literally ten feet away from them.
This is just one example. Pedestrians around here just can't be bothered with crosswalks for some reason.
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Lol, if you meant “clear” to mean “enter” then you should have used “enter”. “Clear” does not appear in the California Vehicle Code in this context, nor does it have anything but an ambiguous meaning in California court.
Once again the term “clear the intersection” will pretty much be universally interpreted to law enforcement and the court as exit the intersection.
I hope that was clear. Lol!
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That is frustrating to me too. It commonly occurs in St Paul where I’m living now. Jeeez.
Yeah, totally. Yesterday I was trying to be nice and stopped short of an intersection (at that crosswalk I mentioned above) so a guy making a left in front of me could turn. Traffic got moving and I was holding people up so I didn't wait too much longer. But the moment I moved this person, who I had more than given ample time to turn and had not done so, decides to turn right in front of me.
Yesterday was just generally not a day to be driving anyway. Multiple reasons for why I created this thread were evident in just about every driver on the road.
Sounds like we have the most perfectest driver around the flat earth, during lunch break at least.
It’s true the pedestrians are also responsible but we have a larger problem than the rest of the country by over 60%. Cyclists in the bike lanes get mowed down. Heck, people on the freaking sidewalk get mowed down. The aggressive and inattentive driving is rampant here maybe partly due to the huge grid. I don’t know, but people need to wake up and take driving more seriously. If people want autonomous cars, that’s fine, but we’re not there yet.
I agree. As I may have mentioned in an earlier post I blame a lot of that on the fact that most people here migrated from other states with less stringent licensing laws.
As I've said before, I learned to drive under California rules. I have discovered that Arizona's driving rules and licensing standards aren't the same as California's. I can only imagine what other, less populous states require.
I tend to try and give drivers a break, much like you were trying.
One thing I've learned from years of experience though, to avoid confusion you must make eye contact with said driver and then I use a hand signal to indicate my intentions and wave him on.
It's very easy to create confusion doing the unexpected at an uncontrolled intersection, and most folks are not expecting courtesy, at least not these days.
I hate people who sit in the fast lane going at most the speed limit when the other lanes are open.