IMO, it should be simple: If you need a passport to fly there, it's international, no checked bag fee. If you don't need a passport, it's domestic, and there's a checked bag fee.
Haha, at least I'm not the only one who found this odd.
IMO, it should be simple: If you need a passport to fly there, it's international, no checked bag fee. If you don't need a passport, it's domestic, and there's a checked bag fee.
I guess if you are flying with one of those super budget airlines then it is to be expected.
But if this becomes standard for carriers such as British Airways or Virgin for their long haul that'd be outrageous.
I still think the best solution is to go back to the "early" days of aviation and still use for commercial helicopter flights:
You and your bags get on the scale.![]()
I was referring to the overnight partnerships with FedEx and other couriers that many airlines offer at rates slightly lower than their 3+ bag fees. Ground shipments, of course, will almost always cost less. That's why I included "at similar speed." But yes, in some cases alternative couriers are better choices.It appears you're trying to be humorous in making your point, but I've done this exact thing and saved money. Instead of paying for an extra bag at $20 - $30 or an even higher overweight fee, I've shipped items to a destination at a cheaper price. You gotta explore all of your options.![]()
It's not quite that simple. While I'd prefer Airline 2 since they don't have terrible policies like Airline 1, it's going to come down to the time of the flights, if it's nonstop, if it's not nonstop, where is the stop at (like I avoid ORD when possible), what kind of plane it's on (I avoid regional jets if I can too), the airline's reputation for being on time and whether or not they're known for losing bags, etc. Baggage fees only make up part of the reason I choose an airline.
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The combined weight of passengers and their luggage determines the amount of fuel the airline needs to transport this cargo from source to destination, and fuel is by far the largest variable operational cost to airlines.
With this in mind, the fairest approach (but not politically acceptable) would be to charge for combined weight. That is, you pay for your weight, just like you pay by weight to transport a package through the post office. Everyone gets on a scales together with their luggage and pays by the pound. Why should I pay the same as some obese person or someone with 2 heavy bags? Along the same lines, I would expect to pay more than a small 10-year-old or someone with less baggage.
I know someone's going to jump on the opportunity here to be "offended", but really, paying by weight is the most logical in the transportation industry.
I like your logic..
Movie theaters should charge by weight for wear and tear on their seating.
Toll Roads should charge by weight for your car and passengers for wear and tear on the roadways.
We should pay auto license plate fees by the weight of our automobiles/motorcycles/suv's/pickups etc. (We probably already do in a broad category sense).
Schools should charge by weight for the amount of space your child takes up in a classroom.
Buffets should charge by weight for the food you place on your plate (I was in a country recently that does that).
After all, my Water district charges for the amount of sewage that I flush. They gage it on the amount of water I use.
The list could go on and on. It WOULD be the fair way to do things....... by your logic.......
I like your logic..
Movie theaters should charge by weight for wear and tear on their seating.
Toll Roads should charge by weight for your car and passengers for wear and tear on the roadways.
We should pay auto license plate fees by the weight of our automobiles/motorcycles/suv's/pickups etc. (We probably already do in a broad category sense).
Schools should charge by weight for the amount of space your child takes up in a classroom.
Buffets should charge by weight for the food you place on your plate (I was in a country recently that does that).
After all, my Water district charges for the amount of sewage that I flush. They gage it on the amount of water I use.
The list could go on and on. It WOULD be the fair way to do things....... by your logic.......
Don't forget that when you buy clothes.
S M L XL XXL - usually all the same price.
The combined weight of passengers and their luggage determines the amount of fuel the airline needs to transport this cargo from source to destination, and fuel is by far the largest variable operational cost to airlines.
With this in mind, the fairest approach (but not politically acceptable) would be to charge for combined weight. That is, you pay for your weight, just like you pay by weight to transport a package through the post office. Everyone gets on a scales together with their luggage and pays by the pound. Why should I pay the same as some obese person or someone with 2 heavy bags? Along the same lines, I would expect to pay more than a small 10-year-old or someone with less baggage.
I know someone's going to jump on the opportunity here to be "offended", but really, paying by weight is the most logical in the transportation industry.
This is completely false in the context being discussed. The majority of the costs of baggage handling are incurred on the ground. The issue of luggage weight is typically concerned with infrastructure at airports not being able to handle abnormally heavy bags or cargo with odd shape, thus requiring additional attention.and fuel is by far the largest variable operational cost to airlines.
This is completely false in the context being discussed. The majority of the costs of baggage handling are incurred on the ground. The issue of luggage weight is typically concerned with infrastructure at airports not being able to handle abnormally heavy bags or cargo with odd shape, thus requiring additional attention.
You were discussing the matter of charging for combined weight, when in reality the weight of a passenger/luggage load is minimal to costs of handling the flight compared to the weight of the aircraft and cargo loads (on widebody routes). Passenger and baggage weight are not considered when fueling an aircraft; a full load is always assumed and kerosene is added based on distance, weather and winds, not the quantity fat people in the back.I wasn't talking about costs associated only with baggage handling. I was talking about overall costs involved with transporting both passengers and their luggage from source to destination.
I thoroughly agree, but would be inclined to set a baseline weight (passenger+baggage) of say, 150lbs. Anything over that and you pay extra, if less, then bully for you. Beyond a certain point, the basic costs remain the same per passenger, and also you'd save a lot of paper-pushing for children/smaller people. As an added incentive for first/business class, keep no restrictions beyond what's already in place there--most of the people flying up there are a) on business accounts, b) wealthy, or c) don't fit properly in coach seats. The first two won't really be affected, and the third shouldn't have their extra size/weight subsidized by the rest of the passengers anyways.
You were discussing the matter of charging for combined weight, when in reality the weight of a passenger/luggage load is minimal to costs of handling the flight compared to the weight of the aircraft and cargo loads (on widebody routes). Passenger and baggage weight are not considered when fueling an aircraft; a full load is always assumed and kerosene is added based on weather and winds, not the quantity fat people in the back.
And those loads are accounted for in fuel loads and accounting.First, the cargo you mention is also priced by weight.
Sure, it burns more fuel. But the increase in amount used is so small that it doesn't matter. Adding, say 500kg for an abnormally high number of obese passengers, to an A319 is less than 1% of a difference and fuel burn will thus probably not be affected by even half of a percent. It isn't accounted for and trying to do so would be inefficient.Second, a full load may be assumed, but the fuel actually used will depend on the overall weight (including the obese Americans and the overweight/extra luggage).
It does to the accountants. This "extra fuel" from weight issues exists in such low quantity that it's irrelevant.The extra fuel not used doesn't just disappear at the end of the flight.
And those loads are accounted for in fuel loads and accounting.
Sure, it burns more fuel. But the increase in amount used is so small that it doesn't matter. Adding, say 500kg for an abnormally high number of obese passengers, to an A319 is less than 1% of a difference and fuel burn will thus probably not be affected by even half of a percent. It isn't accounted for and trying to do so would be inefficient.
It does to the accountants. This "extra fuel" from weight issues exists in such low quantity that it's irrelevant.
The airline industry of 1950 was much less dynamic than it is now; today, planes are more efficient, have much increased MTOW, etc. The figures of average passenger+baggage weight are recalculated on a relatively frequent basis and implemented into the fare system, anyway. With modern, lighter planes, the total weight divided by number of passengers is, I am sure, far less. Add in cargo revenue, and it's a nonissue. 1950 came and went. Now is now and that's where the focus need be.However, your 500kg example would not come even close to covering the difference in weight between a plane load of 1950's Americans and a plane load of today's Americans.
Collecting the data from each flight for accounting purposes, overhauling the system to a weight-based fare structure, adding necessary infrastructure and staffing to enforce such a policy, et al, would far outweigh the additional revenue. The resources would be better spent/invested in other ways.Sure, maybe it's insignificant for each flight, but it adds up when you're talking about 50,000 flights operated by an airline in a year.
The airline industry of 1950 was much less dynamic than it is now; today, planes are more efficient, have much increased MTOW, etc. The figures of average passenger+baggage weight are recalculated on a relatively frequent basis and implemented into the fare system, anyway.
With modern, lighter planes, the total weight divided by number of passengers is, I am sure, far less.
Add in cargo revenue, and it's a nonissue.
Collecting the data from each flight for accounting purposes, overhauling the system to a weight-based fare structure, and adding necessary infrastructure and staffing to enforce such a policy would far outweigh the additional revenue. The resources would be better spent/invested in other ways.
I am simply saying that the weight of the plane per passenger is less today than say, fifty years ago. Indeed, an added pound today is more significant in marginal percentage than it would have been in 1950, but it's added cost is less significant.Hmm, actually this tidbit would actually support my argument because you're essentially saying that with modern planes, the proportion of passenger weight to the lighter fixed weight of the aircraft is greater.
They are completely different markets and are charged in different ways. It is in a way subsidizing passenger costs; airlines could simply raise ticket prices and forgo cargo to lower the amounts of needed fuel. Cargo doesn't cost more to transport due to increasing human weight. Human weight is billed to human airfare, cargo weight is billed to the shippers.You're basically suggesting that cargo subsidizes passengers. Maybe it does, but that gets back to the "fairness" argument (why does cargo cost more to transport just because people are getting larger), although that is certainly at the airlines' own discretion.
As mentioned earlier in this thread, it is indeed being paid for by someone else; that someone else paid for a more expensive, less restrictive ticket.You may very well be right about this. My main point was about the fairness principle, since someone is most definitely paying for that (real) extra fuel to transport thousands of kilograms of extra fat and baggage on each flight...