Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Kinda makes me mad if NFC happens on the iPhone, because NFC should have been part of iPhone 5 and 5S already. I thought it was because Apple had something completely different in mind (iBeacons and such).
Don't worry, it's the same lame rumor we hear about every year. NFC will never happen to the iPhone.
I'm surprised since you live in Europe.
Since when has Europe a reputation for adopting new technologies with limited initial utility first?
NFC is becoming increasingly popular, it's good for low cost and fast payments.
More wishful thinking. NFC does nothing over BLE. With Cellular, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth there are already three different wireless technologies present in the iPhone. Apple will never add another one, unless it can replace one of the others.
Because Apple with it's abundance of iphone users in the US will make it successful!
Because Apple with it's abundance of iPhone users in the US will prevent further NFC adoption! :p
 
That's because what this guy said about Germany and credit cards is not true. I am from Germany and you can pay alot with credit cards. It might be not as popular as in other countries but most places accept credit card.

That's rather amazing..... When I lived in Frankfurt am Main 30 years ago I used to pay for lunch and all kinds of stuff with credit cards daily.

What happend?
 
Baloney. Security is not achieved through the medium of data transfer (WiFi vs NFC vs BT). It's achieved through not sending anything sensitive over the airwaves in the first place.

NFC is far easier to hack BECAUSE of the short range. Crooks can install a reader directly under (or even inside) the POS terminal in the store and capture EVERY single NFC transaction.

With BT or WiFi there's a lot more "noise" going on. How do you tell which packets of data out of the hundreds flying around from various devices are actual transactions (with credit card or other useful information) and which are just garbage (people sending messages, checking mail, browsing, getting info from iBeacons and so on)?

With a sniffer under a terminal you know that EVERY SINGLE NFC data transfer you capture is an actual transaction. That information is going to be far more useful to crooks.



or it will fade away if Apple comes out with an alternate payment system based on BT LE.

In the UK, our debit cards now have "contactless" technology.

What that means is that if you have a contactless card and buy something in a shop that has a contactless reader, all you have to do is place the card on top of the reader and voila, you've paid.

There's a maximum amount of £20, but the issue is the thieves already have "skimmers" on their phones that work in the same way, but what they do is hold it close to the back pockets of guys in a packed tube train (because that's where guys invariably have their wallets).

All of a sudden, you've just bought £19.99 worth of nothing, without even knowing about it.

The crooks are raking it in, so the idea behind any "contactless" forms of payment still needs work.
 
Look, if you're not an expert on these issues, you're not adding to the discussion by throwing out uniformed opinion.

While I don't know how qualified you may be, and what your education or work experience in this field is, flaming someone else without knowing their background is uncalled for.

(a) The fact that you have slow internet at your house does not change the fact that there are OTHER usage scenarios that can utilize higher bandwidth. One set set of these is public situations (for example conferences, workplaces) where base stations try to connect to every device as fast as possible, and where high internet bandwidth has been arranged.

I don't disagree, however, how many iPhone users (who don't even know what version of iOS is on their phone unless a genius tells them) will benefit from 802.11ac? ac is backwards compatible with n, meaning that you don't need an ac chip in order to connect to a network with ac, so we're in the clear there.

I agree with your point about bandwidth constraints for "conferences, workplaces" but again, where do we see iPhone 6's being used as routers for these scenarios? I'm not saying 802.11ac is useless in totality, but the user experience from having n -> ac in their iPhone won't be noticeable, if at all, different (after all, this topic is about ac in the iPhone, not about the ac standard in general)


(b) Adding to (a) there are features in 802.11ac that further improve the conference type situation by allowing multiple devices to communicate simultaneously with a single base station. These features (MU-MIMO) may or may not be part of the new iPhones, we don't know yet. (Broadcom announced some months ago that they will have an MU-MIMO phone chipset ready in a few months, but gave no more details. It is not inconceivable that Apple has arranged to be the first purchaser of that chipset.)

So as you stated yourself, MU-MIMO isn't actually ac itself, but a feature that Broadcom could incorporate. It's likely not even going to be incorporated into the "first draft" of ac from what I've read, and comes with plenty of caveats.

(c) Adding to (b) there are features in 802.11ac (in particular beam-forming) that allow you to maintain higher bandwidth at much larger distances (or through thicker walls) than 802.11n. There are plenty of people constantly whining about how 802.11 gives them lousy speeds in their basements or gardens or whatever, who will see improvements from 802.11ac.

I'll await real world demonstrations of beam-forming before drawing any conclusions on this. Initial observation seem to suggest it has potential to not extend the distance a router can drive a signal, but rather better permeate physical obstructions.

That said, maybe you are forgetting that there are actually quite a few scenarios where the older standard 802.11g outperforms 802.11n due to physical barriers (walls) or distance between routers and devices? I'm not saying ac will be a downgrade, but I'm more anxious to see how this performs in real life before labeling it a game changer.


Louis CK does a whole routine about how people who don't have a clue how cellphones work feel happy to complain about how lousy they are. But whenever 802.11ac comes up, we see something even weirder --- a chorus of people saying "I don't want it to get better, nothing should change, all the engineers are stupid for trying to improve WiFi".
I mean, seriously, WTF? What is driving these bizarre complaints?

I'm all for having the latest technology, but aside from the potential of beam-forming (yet to see if this is actually going to work as well as theory suggests), ac really won't make a difference to iPhone users on WiFi. We aren't downloading/streaming 40+ megabytes of data to our iPhones, and as ac doesn't promise "further" distance performance compared to n, I'm skeptical of how much greater it will actually be in practice.

Responses in bold.
 
I couldn't care less for NFC (since it isn't as secure as it should be), but I do wish more companies would use Passport as a means for payments.
 
In the UK, our debit cards now have "contactless" technology.

What that means is that if you have a contactless card and buy something in a shop that has a contactless reader, all you have to do is place the card on top of the reader and voila, you've paid.

There's a maximum amount of £20, but the issue is the thieves already have "skimmers" on their phones that work in the same way, but what they do is hold it close to the back pockets of guys in a packed tube train (because that's where guys invariably have their wallets).

All of a sudden, you've just bought £19.99 worth of nothing, without even knowing about it.

The crooks are raking it in, so the idea behind any "contactless" forms of payment still needs work.

Agreed. I now keep my cards inside a metal mesh inside my wallet. NFC is the last thing I want. Chip and PIN does just fine for me.

----------

That's a pretty big security hole then. It sounds like NFC sniffers will be just as bad as card skimmers.

What's the remedy?

.

Don't use NFC

----------

I like your sarcasm at the end.

NFC is becoming increasingly popular, it's good for low cost and fast payments. If NFC is used more in phones, both the iPhone and others then I can see it changing as a default way to pay without cash as ultimately the purchase limits will be lifted.

Considering all the security problems with NFC that's the last thing I want near my phone.
 
What that means is that if you have a contactless card and buy something in a shop that has a contactless reader, all you have to do is place the card on top of the reader and voila, you've paid.

There's a maximum amount of £20, but the issue is the thieves already have "skimmers" on their phones that work in the same way, but what they do is hold it close to the back pockets of guys in a packed tube train (because that's where guys invariably have their wallets).

Seems like this should create a market for tinfoil (Faraday cage) wallets. Anyone in that business?
 
Responses in bold.

I don't want to pick on you, but where you're in a hole, stop digging.

(a) NO-ONE is talking about using phones as routers (I assume you mean base stations). The issue is that, even if your phone's 802.11ac doesn't benefit you at home, it benefits you if you visit other environments that offer ac and that simultaneously serve a large number of users.

(b) MU-MIMO IS a feature of 802.11ac. The spec (something produced by a quasi-governmental organization) contains a few optional features. To co-ordinate the use of these optional features (which are useless if no-one uses them) the WiFi alliance (a trade organization) organized the introduction of ac chips in two stages. The first (which has already passed) incorporated all the mandatory features. The second stage (called 802.11ac Wave 2) is currently under way.

EVERYTHING in technology happens in stages. And because of that, you can ALWAYS whine, if you're a short-sighted idiot, that some new feature is useless because it isn't universal. But you know what --- in five years it WILL be universal. My first iPhone only had 802.11g. Does that mean that it was stupid to add 802.11n because, at the time it was added, most base stations were 802.11g only?

(c) If you are in an environment where the existing tech (by which I assume you mean 2.4GHz rather than 5GHz) works better for you, then WTF are you complaining about. Keep using the existing tech. But don't imagine that the world revolves around you and that nothing should ever be changed even if it improves things for other people because it doesn't solve YOUR personal problem.

"ac really won't make a difference to iPhone users on WiFi"
Are you truly so damn egocentric that you cannot see the stupidity of this claim?
It's one thing to say "ac really won't make a difference to MY iPhone use"; it's another to claim (even after I have given you a list of reasons why ac help a certain set of users) that EVERY iPhone user uses their device in exactly the same way that you do, that your experiences represent the experiences of 300 million people.
 
what if you only pay for 40mbps speed for internet. Or is this a totally different thing? way too confused on that.

You would not see an increase of internet speed. It would only help with getting the bits from your router quicker if your router a router with an AC wifi antenna.
 
I hope NFC really does happen! Will help with adoption in USA

NFC adoption has been basically zero, even with all of the Android phones using t. Once Apple adopts it, it'll explode. Android users will whine that Apple "copied" them, but in reality they should be thankful Apple actually makes NFC useful on their phones.
 
You are going to notice little to no difference having 802.11ac in your phone. There is nothing you are doing on your phone, that requires the kind of speeds 802.11ac can provide.


NFC has the potential to change your experience on the phone much more than having the capabilities of higher wifi speeds. I think it's great that Apple pushes the wifi standard forward by including these expensive wifi chip into our phones, but ultimately you should be more excited for NFC in my opinion. 802.11ac will be more important to you in the coming years.

Sigh, the inverse of speed is power consumption. Have a high data rate wireless link? For a fixed amount of data, takes less time to transfer that data. Less time to transfer that data means more time radio spends sleeping. More time radio is sleeping = better battery life.

Also means less congestion of the airwaves, again increasing speeds (see previous point).

Also means access to more 5 Ghz spectrum from FCC expansion (see previous two points).

It is not simply just about the raw data rate.
 
NFC adoption has been basically zero, even with all of the Android phones using t. Once Apple adopts it, it'll explode. Android users will whine that Apple "copied" them, but in reality they should be thankful Apple actually makes NFC useful on their phones.

I think a big part of it is the bank's slow adoption in the US. Every Visa and Debit card from a Canadian bank basically has contactless payment thru NFC over the past 18 months, and chips are prevalent over the last couple of years. I think a lot of it comes down to what is available as a payment option with a lot of businesses. Once banks said, 'look - get a chip reader, or we will increase your debit card fees', businesses didn't budge.
 
So you want the screws put to you, eh?

Screws are SO last year...We'll be seeing the adhesive instead!

FASTENERphoto.png


For those of you who want all the details :D
 
It is the newest WiFi standard. Its much faster the 802.11n

802.11n and probably ac for cell phones is overrated. except for iPhones you always end up getting only 1 spatial stream and the fastest speed possible with 1 spatial stream is like 56 or 64 mbit , and the speed 300 to 450 megabit which you are paying for you never get because you don't have the necessary antennas.

my iPhone 5 and iPad air is only 4 feet from my airport extreme (802.11n) and i'm only connecting at 6 mb/s
 
Just a couple of thoughts,

1) Doesn't NFC mean wireless charging? As per what a waterproof (re: iTime) would possibly need?

No they are not related.

2) Doesn't NFC, it being a standard, help out with manufacturers who want to pare their device; such as medical or fitness; with the hub-device (the iPhone)

Not really - NFC is about short transactions, medical and fitness devices are mostly Bluetooth for long-term data transfer and that has plenty of discovery options not requiring NFC.

3) Wouldn't they want it it in Laptops and Desktops, as per that mysterious gizmo the other month?

No - what would be the point, NFC is an inherently mobile solution, laptops and desktops have other ways to quick connect with them and don't have a use for NFC.
 
That's because what this guy said about Germany and credit cards is not true. I am from Germany and you can pay alot with credit cards. It might be not as popular as in other countries but most places accept credit card.

tell me one grocery store in germany that lets you pay with a credit card. cant think of a single one. i always have my credit card with me but i always have to use my EC card. no credit card at media markt either

(online shops is a different story)
 
tell me one grocery store in germany that lets you pay with a credit card. cant think of a single one. i always have my credit card with me but i always have to use my EC card. no credit card at media markt either

(online shops is a different story)

Can't think of any store either. Every time I visit Germany, the only place I can make use of my credit card, is the car rental company.

Went to a Media Markt near Stuttgart and wanted to buy a nice set of Headphones. Couldn't believe that I couldn't use my credit card :eek:
 
NFC adoption has been basically zero, even with all of the Android phones using t. Once Apple adopts it, it'll explode. Android users will whine that Apple "copied" them, but in reality they should be thankful Apple actually makes NFC useful on their phones.

Not outside the us. It is used in Bluetooth products as well for easy pairing. Most (all?) CVS in us have NFC, some other stores do too, you just probably don't notice it. Its just part of the card swiping POS unit.

Of course I'm happy apple is finally adopting it. Standards are good, anyone who says otherwise is foolish. I'm very glad they aren't implementing some proprietary, dividing tech
 
Last edited:
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.