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Seems like this should create a market for tinfoil (Faraday cage) wallets. Anyone in that business?

I think there is already a thriving market - even my office hands out copper mesh lined credit card envelops for our company travel cards!

Personally, I use a HuMn wallet with my cards sandwiched between the two plates. Fairly expensive but a great minimalist wallet.
 
Don't worry, it's the same lame rumor we hear about every year. NFC will never happen to the iPhone.
Since when has Europe a reputation for adopting new technologies with limited initial utility first?
More wishful thinking. NFC does nothing over BLE. With Cellular, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth there are already three different wireless technologies present in the iPhone. Apple will never add another one, unless it can replace one of the others.
Because Apple with it's abundance of iPhone users in the US will prevent further NFC adoption! :p

NFC is still doing the same things it always has... I look forward to your rage when apple finally implements it.

Limited initial utility baha.. No I meant Europe is generally more progressive with implementation of payment technologies...

A fourth wireless tech is bad because?... NFC doesn't even show up in my battery stats...
 
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I don't want to pick on you, but where you're in a hole, stop digging.

(a) NO-ONE is talking about using phones as routers (I assume you mean base stations). The issue is that, even if your phone's 802.11ac doesn't benefit you at home, it benefits you if you visit other environments that offer ac and that simultaneously serve a large number of users.

Right, the topic is concerned with the iPhone 6 and how ac will impact the day to day user. Not ac technology in an enterprise environment (I'm sure there is a WiFi forum on another site, though).

An ac router can still work with my iPhone 5S' chipsets. Still not sure how having an ac chip versus n changes MY iPhone experience, barring beam-forming, depending on how it's real world improvements actually are. It can't possibly provide faster speeds, because unless you're in an environment with hundreds of users plugging at a single base station, bandwidth is never going to be an issue (unless your company has a useless IT department). Every company I've consulted at, has various base stations on each floor, with important hardware hardwired. Bandwidth saturation is last on the list of their issues.


(b) MU-MIMO IS a feature of 802.11ac. The spec (something produced by a quasi-governmental organization) contains a few optional features. To co-ordinate the use of these optional features (which are useless if no-one uses them) the WiFi alliance (a trade organization) organized the introduction of ac chips in two stages. The first (which has already passed) incorporated all the mandatory features. The second stage (called 802.11ac Wave 2) is currently under way.

Right, well aware. Wave 1, which would be in the iPhone 6 (should it receive ac, as it likely will), is not going to have MU-MIMO. In Wave 2, MI-MIMO is marked as an optional feature, which isn't due out until 2015 at the earliest. Please see press release from Qualcomm (who is pretty much guaranteed to provide the chipset in the next iPhone):

https://www.qca.qualcomm.com/thewir...-wi-fi-capacity-via-802-11ac-multi-user-mimo/


EVERYTHING in technology happens in stages. And because of that, you can ALWAYS whine, if you're a short-sighted idiot, that some new feature is useless because it isn't universal. But you know what --- in five years it WILL be universal. My first iPhone only had 802.11g. Does that mean that it was stupid to add 802.11n because, at the time it was added, most base stations were 802.11g only?

No need to be condescending or call people idiots. Again, I'm not saying iPhones shouldn't have ac, I'm just trying to make a point that ac chips aren't going to change real-world experiences for consumers today. From upgrading to a 5S to a 6, WiFi performance won't change - period, with the exception of beam-forming, as discussed above. I understand technology must progress for the sake of technology, but the last thing we need is more ignorant Apple fans running around praising a standard, without understanding it.

(c) If you are in an environment where the existing tech (by which I assume you mean 2.4GHz rather than 5GHz) works better for you, then WTF are you complaining about. Keep using the existing tech. But don't imagine that the world revolves around you and that nothing should ever be changed even if it improves things for other people because it doesn't solve YOUR personal problem.

The difference between n and g is more than 2.4GHz and 5.0Gz, but surely as you know everything about ac, you also know this to be the case. Also not sure where "personal problem" comes into play here.

"ac really won't make a difference to iPhone users on WiFi"
Are you truly so damn egocentric that you cannot see the stupidity of this claim?
It's one thing to say "ac really won't make a difference to MY iPhone use"; it's another to claim (even after I have given you a list of reasons why ac help a certain set of users) that EVERY iPhone user uses their device in exactly the same way that you do, that your experiences represent the experiences of 300 million people.

Please provide a real-world example of how ac will benefit a consumer who purchases an iPhone 6. We've pointed out beam-forming, which I do agree should be an improvement, but I'd really like to see real-world test results before praising it as the second coming of christ. We've already established MU-MIMO isn't part of Wave 1, so that's off the table until the 6S at the earliest. And we have discussed that due to extra bandwidth throughout, enterprise environments can deploy less ac base stations.

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The crooks are raking it in, so the idea behind any "contactless" forms of payment still needs work.

My theory on this is simple. People always think of the current system and how to improve it, all the while keeping the basic paradigm the same:

- You transfer credit/debit information from you (chip card, swipe, contactless or phone) to the POS terminal in the store which verifies the information and then processes the payment.

My thought on this is: why do I have to give my information to the store?

What I think Apple will do is make your iPhone the POS terminal. Instead of you providing financial details to the store, the store will pass their merchant number and purchase amount to your iPhone, which will process the transaction.

This makes it useless for crooks to scan the airwaves because no credit/debit information gets transmitted. Only a merchant ID number, a dollar amount and a reference number of the transaction.
 
My thought on this is: why do I have to give my information to the store?

You don't. These machines belong to banks, it processes the money and the only thing the store receives is your money and the last 4 digits of your card. At least that's how it is in Quebec.
 
Am I the only one who's more excited for 802.11ac instead of NFC? :cool:

Nope. As I understand there are still several flavors of NFC out there and who knows which will be the winner. So Apple diving into that front may be less likely.

But 802.11ac is basically decided on so it makes sense that they would move everything over to it. Including iOS devices.

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Yeah especially with Passbook, Touch ID and the fact that iOS 7 can store credit/debit card info ... Apple has been planting the seeds for some time now .

Can't wait .

Or they will do all those things without using NFC. Look at Starbucks and how they use QR codes on the screen of your phone. Could be more of the same
 
But, but, but NFC is dead........at least according to 3/4 of the posters on this site a year ago when the 5 and 5s didn't have it.
 
You don't. These machines belong to banks, it processes the money and the only thing the store receives is your money and the last 4 digits of your card. At least that's how it is in Quebec.

Irrelevant. The point is I have to give my card number to the "store" where it could be captured any number of ways. Here in Vancouver organized criminals actually modified POS terminals to capture card data. They still worked normally, except for the recording of cards.

There's no reason for me to expose myself by giving this information to the "store". Which is why I think Apple will reverse things and make the iPhone the POS terminal. No more card data will be transferred.
 
But, but, but NFC is dead........at least according to 3/4 of the posters on this site a year ago when the 5 and 5s didn't have it.

It's not dead, but it's far from taken off, possibly because Apple hasn't jumped on it yet, and various companies blocking one another in an attempt to secure a piece of the pie.

I personally don't really care. If anything, I would rather Apple spearhead its own mobile payments standard rather than NFC, if only to wipe that smirk off the face of Android users when iBeacon or whatever new Apple standard proceeds to do to NFC like what Apple did with Flash.
 
Where do I apply to get an analyst job? All I have to do is guess and when I'm wrong I say that the previous predictions were wrong.

My prediction:
The next iPhone is expected to have 2 displays, holographic keyboards, 4k display, ultra retina display, beats onboard speakers, in addition to bullet resistant and water resistant features.
 
I personally don't really care. If anything, I would rather Apple spearhead its own mobile payments standard rather than NFC, if only to wipe that smirk off the face of Android users when iBeacon or whatever new Apple standard proceeds to do to NFC like what Apple did with Flash.

Any possibility you are taking smartphones a little too seriously?
 
NFC is a technology that does NOT include 802.11ac in its standard. So I am kinda curious how 802.11ac works OVER NFC. I think that's what several people on this board are asking.

Nowhere did anyone say NFC works over 802.11ac because it doesn't. A commenter mentioned they are more interested in "802.11ac over NFC" as a comparison, not a feature.

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Addition of NFC => Admission of withholding features from 5/5S by intent or mistake..

How do you arrive at that? Is Apple supposed to support every standard now or else they're withholding those standards? Supply chains, pricing, engineering and just general advancements dictate the hardware included in each generation of iPhone.
 
Am I the only one who's more excited for 802.11ac instead of NFC? :cool:

I honestly don't see how 802.11ac can be all that useful on a mobile device such as this. It's not as if most folks are transferring large files where 802.11n threshold is being reached.

I'm legitimately curious, what do you do on your phone that has you excited for this new standard? Maybe you're excited for the increase in range?
 
NFC is the US is the only thing that matters to me, because it's where I live. In the US, no one even knows what it is, really. Even Android users I know. You can guarantee if Apple adds it, it'll be HUGE within two years.

I have worked on many NFC projects over the years. In short, there is a huge security issue with NFC that could be easily handled with the right hash table encryption. Problem is the houses that make the NFC tags are so damn cheap, they are not willing to design in the security circuitry and code in an NFC tag that eats in at a margin.

The market is currently uneducated on the security holes of ID theft via NFC. With the right wearable reader, you can "bump" into someone and scan their entire wallet fold with all their card data and charge it up. 'Til that is handled, we will not see any consumer implementation of NFC regulating it to verticals.
 
NFC is the US is the only thing that matters to me, because it's where I live. In the US, no one even knows what it is, really. Even Android users I know. You can guarantee if Apple adds it, it'll be HUGE within two years.

I've been saying this for ages (the general sentiment in this site seems to be that NFC is a waste if time).

There are NFC stations all over the place. I lived in rural Iowa for four years and they had them there too. Most chain gas stations have them. Some targets. Walmarts. Radio shack. Just a few places off the to of my head.

If Apple didn't bismuth it could be huge.

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Don't worry, it's the same lame rumor we hear about every year. NFC will never happen to the iPhone.

iPhone was also never going to have a screen larger than 3.5". That "certainty" has already been smashed. If we are to believe the highly credible rumors, it's going to be smashed again with this next launch.

Never day never. Will we see it next refresh? Maybe. Maybe not.

I personally always saw passbook as a way for apple to test the waters and see how popular mobile payments and cards might be for their users (and of course how willing third parties are to incorporate them). Had it been a flop, it's just software that could have been phased or altered. With hardware it is much more difficult to do that.
 
Baloney. Security is not achieved through the medium of data transfer (WiFi vs NFC vs BT). It's achieved through not sending anything sensitive over the airwaves in the first place.

NFC is far easier to hack BECAUSE of the short range. Crooks can install a reader directly under (or even inside) the POS terminal in the store and capture EVERY single NFC transaction.

With BT or WiFi there's a lot more "noise" going on. How do you tell which packets of data out of the hundreds flying around from various devices are actual transactions (with credit card or other useful information) and which are just garbage (people sending messages, checking mail, browsing, getting info from iBeacons and so on)?

With a sniffer under a terminal you know that EVERY SINGLE NFC data transfer you capture is an actual transaction. That information is going to be far more useful to crooks.

Unless you decide to send a bunch of garbage data as well. But realistically, with proper encryption (something I understand is lacking with NFC stands currently, it's all somewhat moot, no?
 
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