CBS 5
[NSFW/GRAPHIC VIDEO of the shooting]
Video Two (Better Video)
makes me sad too see this. very stomach churning...
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BART Police kill unarmed man [video]
- Thread starter BittenApple
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CBS 5
[NSFW/GRAPHIC VIDEO of the shooting]
Video Two (Better Video)
makes me sad too see this. very stomach churning...
well isn't that just delightful. do you know at what point in the video the gun is actually fired? it's long and some points are loud so i don't know if i missed the gunshot or not.
EDIT: i think i found it, it's around the 3 minute mark...
EDIT: i think i found it, it's around the 3 minute mark...
I hope there is a thorough investigation - from the video it appears to practically be an assassination. Be interesting to hear what/if there are extenuating circumstances that caused the officer to take those measures.
Here's a text news article summarizing....
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_11363911
Some people at the SF Bay Guardian are pointing to some past apparent uses of unnecessary lethal force by the police at the BART stations...
http://www.sfbg.com/entry.php?entry_id=7799
Apparently the police at BART have limited accountability to the public... I don't completely understand how/why they're different from other SF police in this regard:
http://www.sfbg.com/blogs/politics/2009/01/beware_the_bart_police.html
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_11363911
Some people at the SF Bay Guardian are pointing to some past apparent uses of unnecessary lethal force by the police at the BART stations...
http://www.sfbg.com/entry.php?entry_id=7799
Apparently the police at BART have limited accountability to the public... I don't completely understand how/why they're different from other SF police in this regard:
http://www.sfbg.com/blogs/politics/2009/01/beware_the_bart_police.html
I bet they officer in question will be exonerated. Trust me. This isn't the first nor the last time something like this will happen.
The only thing that will happen, is the taxpayers will have to pay as a result of a lawsuit other then that, business as usual.
The only thing that will happen, is the taxpayers will have to pay as a result of a lawsuit other then that, business as usual.
The officer involved was only working there two years - where was he before that? Could be an inexperienced newbie, an Iraq War vet with PTSD, or just a bad cop...could have been an accident, or something more sinister.
Either way it's a tragedy. As long as we have armed police in this country this kind of thing can happen from time to time - it's rare, fortunately, and I'm not sure the alternative is better. Hopefully the authorities can get to the bottom of this and if there have been abuses, to deal with it appropriately.
Either way it's a tragedy. As long as we have armed police in this country this kind of thing can happen from time to time - it's rare, fortunately, and I'm not sure the alternative is better. Hopefully the authorities can get to the bottom of this and if there have been abuses, to deal with it appropriately.
I've been horrified watching this all day. That BART "police officer" essentially executed him. This is why BART Police shouldn't be carrying lethal force. I can't tell you how many times I've seen one of them threaten to use their gun when a real police officer wouldn't have even dreamed of doing so.
I'm not saying the guy they were arresting wasn't making trouble - gods know we've got enough punks on BART as well. But making trouble and being arrested for it is one thing, being killed by a glorified rent-a-cop is quite another.
I'm not saying the guy they were arresting wasn't making trouble - gods know we've got enough punks on BART as well. But making trouble and being arrested for it is one thing, being killed by a glorified rent-a-cop is quite another.
Call me scared?!
BUt ... I think the right to guns has gone a little overboard.
1> What the FRAK are you transit enforcement officers carrying guns!? There is no REASON for them to carry guns even to breakup a fight. Its on the subway train, trains use glass or plexiglass windows. Train can be stopped midway between stations and the REAL police called in to trap suspects and deal with it.
Couple of shady things.
1> The girl that recorded the incident did as best she could, given the pandomonium. However there is a quick glimpse that the man just prior to being shot raised his two hands JOINED as if twisty tied. So why was he shot?
2>
3> BART spokesman Jim Allison
Hmmf! RIIIIGHT! Counterterrorism ... if that actually happened how the FRAK is homeland security going to get evidence or any leads on anything occuring if NO RECORDING is being done?! Shady!
4>
- ILLEGAL! No probable cause or right to confiscate any personal artificates of ANYONE not involved. BAR NONE!
5>
A) I don't care if the officer actually pressed the trigger or not he is at some fault (manslaughter II at the least). Why is he withdrawing a gun to a man, lying on his back on the floor?! Officer can use his foot or his body to "supress" the "assailant" to keep him at bay.
B) EVEN if the assailant is armed you do NOT FIRE until the assailant
- Takes a hostage and threatens lives; EVEN not right away!
- Is a danger to himself that affects OTHER lives!
- Officer's life is in danger; and even THEN should a warning be presented IMMEDIATELY, LOUDLY, and other officers can present threatening FORCE to persuade the assailant to reconsider. **** don't officers in the USA say "FREEZE" anymore?!
Either way officers are TRAINED and TAUGHT that their jobs they put their LIVES on the line and not to just simply fire in such a situation.
An autopsy by two coroners less influenced by BART or related city police, should be conducted. A REAL police investigation should also be conducted and if any of those confiscated cellphones where deleted of videos ... then suspicion to hide facts should be considered (is it not called abating and abetting criminal investigation).
Fight or no fight ... kids on NewYears Eve, morning of NewYears Day do stupid things! But they don't deserve to die because an officer cannot follow proper training or thought process correctly. Heck the BART officers looked like they had suspects all under control.
BUt ... I think the right to guns has gone a little overboard.
1> What the FRAK are you transit enforcement officers carrying guns!? There is no REASON for them to carry guns even to breakup a fight. Its on the subway train, trains use glass or plexiglass windows. Train can be stopped midway between stations and the REAL police called in to trap suspects and deal with it.
Couple of shady things.
1> The girl that recorded the incident did as best she could, given the pandomonium. However there is a quick glimpse that the man just prior to being shot raised his two hands JOINED as if twisty tied. So why was he shot?
2>
Thats fine, they don't legally have to respond, but I think just simply stating that we're taking a statement and co-operating with authorities would be sufficient.
3> BART spokesman Jim Allison
Hmmf! RIIIIGHT! Counterterrorism ... if that actually happened how the FRAK is homeland security going to get evidence or any leads on anything occuring if NO RECORDING is being done?! Shady!
4>
- ILLEGAL! No probable cause or right to confiscate any personal artificates of ANYONE not involved. BAR NONE!
5>
This is FRAKING 2009 not 1899!! Guns don't just randomly "discharge" in the HANDS of an officer. If by chance it honestly DID, then the officer is at fault for not maintaining firearm care & maintenance and thus manslaughter (no intent to kill) should be charged or similar.
A) I don't care if the officer actually pressed the trigger or not he is at some fault (manslaughter II at the least). Why is he withdrawing a gun to a man, lying on his back on the floor?! Officer can use his foot or his body to "supress" the "assailant" to keep him at bay.
B) EVEN if the assailant is armed you do NOT FIRE until the assailant
- Takes a hostage and threatens lives; EVEN not right away!
- Is a danger to himself that affects OTHER lives!
- Officer's life is in danger; and even THEN should a warning be presented IMMEDIATELY, LOUDLY, and other officers can present threatening FORCE to persuade the assailant to reconsider. **** don't officers in the USA say "FREEZE" anymore?!
Either way officers are TRAINED and TAUGHT that their jobs they put their LIVES on the line and not to just simply fire in such a situation.
An autopsy by two coroners less influenced by BART or related city police, should be conducted. A REAL police investigation should also be conducted and if any of those confiscated cellphones where deleted of videos ... then suspicion to hide facts should be considered (is it not called abating and abetting criminal investigation).
Fight or no fight ... kids on NewYears Eve, morning of NewYears Day do stupid things! But they don't deserve to die because an officer cannot follow proper training or thought process correctly. Heck the BART officers looked like they had suspects all under control.
Because TASERs are dangerous.
Yeah I know. Do you think this kids death would've caused this much suspicion if the BART officer used a taser and the kid died? How could you prove any intent to cause bodily harm of any kind??
The proper reasoning is that with a Taser you cannot control the incapacitation of an assailant. You cannot target a shoulder, leg, arm, knee, etc. However, how many times (heck even in movies), do you see a police officer trying to stop a bank robber, gang banger, etc by shooting them in the leg or the arm? Don't give me the excuse that the chest is a larger target - that is negligable with the many months of firearm, eyesight, and targeting training ALL officers receive with firearms.
Do you
You really think homeland security is real?
They were at a crime scene. I think it is legal.
lol, see post #9. I have no idea what country you live in, I'll I know is in the good Ole USA, this officer will be cleared of ALL charges. I'm fully aware of these types of 'incidents' and their outcomes. Nothing new. Business as usual.
I'm in Canada. At any rate I think in the end you'll be right. Which is a very sad thing.
{QUOTE=cantthinkofone]They were at a crime scene. I think it is legal. [/QUOTE] Sure it may be legal, but why should transit officers NEED to carry firearms? In Toronto, only transit officers that ride with the cash box on wheels, carry them. And who wants to try to run with a wheel barrel full of change (120Lbs+)??
I disagree with quite a bit of what you're saying, but I'll just deal with this minor point. They say the gun "discharged" because the events have not yet been legally established; to say that the officer "shot" him or some such before that is established could foul up legal proceedings for various reasons. It's a minor point, but a significant one.
Oh, and BTW, even in 1899 it would be very unusual for a handgun to randomly discharge.
Oh, and I hereby arrest you for excessive use of "frack", unecessary use of capital letters and misspelling of "frack".
I think this incident shows that these particular cops are not recieving enough training in the use of deadly force. They should stop carrying handguns until they are re-trained.
I agree. It's very sad. This is the realtiy.
This kid (22 years) didn't deserve to die like this. Who cares if he was part of some fight, he was handcuffed. It shows his life meant nothing to this officer. No cameras working at the station, lol. Then we wonder why black folks distrust the boys in blue....
just think if this wasn't recorded with a camera phone, we'll be saying well maybe the officer had a reason.
maybe the cop was reaching for his taser instead...that's possible. right?
This kid (22 years) didn't deserve to die like this. Who cares if he was part of some fight, he was handcuffed. It shows his life meant nothing to this officer. No cameras working at the station, lol. Then we wonder why black folks distrust the boys in blue....
Many of the "boys in blue" happen to be black, especially in urban areas. Police brutality is often linked with racism, and to say it isn't would be wrong, but if you assume that such brutality is always racially motivated you would be muddying the waters. The real problem is the quality of recruitment, vetting and training.
What? I don't want this wannabe cop with a gun ever again. Everyone else gets a gun. This guy gets nothing and patrols with a baton and a cool pair of aviators to keep his ego from falling too low.
Exactly. That's the scary thing. We'd be reading about this on the news.....that a young man got shot by a police officer for threatening him. I doubt they'd let us know that this guy was cuffed, and by the looks of it, was lying on the ground (from what I see in the video).
Instead, we get the wonderful Scooby-Doo ending. Thank goodness for that girl and her camera.
When I said re-trained, I meant that particular police unit as a whole, not the idiot who shot the victim. Assuming the shooting was due to gross negligence (or worse) on his part, he should never wear a badge again.
Some new info
Here: http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_11369405
Also, the local news channel that broke the video, KTVU, has a "BART Shooting" tab on their home page. It's flash, so I can't post a direct link, but http://www.ktvu.com is the station.
Several folks in the police world have come forward to say that the officer who did the shooting appears to have mistaken his gun for his tazer (which BART police also carry). However, the officer in question still hasn't made any statement regarding the shooting, which is unusual this many days later.
Frankly, I don't give a damn that BART police attend the same academy as regular police - they shouldn't be carrying guns, plain and simple.
Here: http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_11369405
Also, the local news channel that broke the video, KTVU, has a "BART Shooting" tab on their home page. It's flash, so I can't post a direct link, but http://www.ktvu.com is the station.
Several folks in the police world have come forward to say that the officer who did the shooting appears to have mistaken his gun for his tazer (which BART police also carry). However, the officer in question still hasn't made any statement regarding the shooting, which is unusual this many days later.
Frankly, I don't give a damn that BART police attend the same academy as regular police - they shouldn't be carrying guns, plain and simple.