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BART Police kill unarmed man [video]

Officer quits:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/07/BA2N155BAH.DTL

Protests turn to riots in Oakland:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/07/MN2N155CN1.DTL

Here's a choice quote:

Nia Sykes, 24, of San Francisco, a protester who was with the group, said, "I feel like the night is going great. I feel like Oakland should make some noise. This is how we need to fight back.
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Nothing wrong with protesting, but you fight The Man by destroying your own community?? :confused:
 
me_94501 said:
Officer quits:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/07/BA2N155BAH.DTL

Protests turn to riots in Oakland:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/07/MN2N155CN1.DTL

Here's a choice quote:


Nothing wrong with protesting, but you fight The Man by destroying your own community?? :confused:
Click to expand...



The roving mob expressed fury at police and frustration over society's racial injustice. Yet the demonstrators were often indiscriminate, frequently targeting the businesses and prized possessions of people of color.
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I couldn't agree more.
 
Here is another video (a much more clear one) showing the officer going for his gun (and not the taser!) standing up and shooting him.

Video Two
 
I believe in innocent until proving guilty, so I won't accuse the cop of anything. Because I wasn't there and it's not fair with hearing the whole story from both sides, or in this case, one side and the evidence. But the cop isn't looking to good at the moment. But we do not know much about the events before the videos. Most people would start the camera after the confrontation started.
 
BittenApple said:
Here is another video (a much more clear one) showing the officer going for his gun (and not the taser!) standing up and shooting him.

Video Two
Click to expand...

guy only been there 2 years. No history of shooting people in the back. BART police just started using tasers. Watch his motions in the video. There is no way he thought he was using deadly force.

Should he have been trained better? HY. Should he even have been deploying his taser at that time? Doesn't look like it, but I wasn't there.

"execution, is the killing of a person by judicial process for retribution and incapacitation" (courtesy of wikipedia)

It also SAH was not an execution, no matter how much people want to incite anger.

Double standard? You bet. Anyone outside of law enforcement fires that shot, they're in custody instantly. Many people don't connect the double standard.

For all that, this was a tragic freaking accident.
 
I remember back in the day when police were actually friendly. You saw them and thought good things. Now they act all arrogant, their vehicles are designed to be intimidating and when you see them you think "Am I speeding?" even if you are stopped at a red light.

I feel no sympathy for law enforcement. I dated a cop once. She was the biggest head case out there and to think, thats who people call in an emergency. They need higher testing or screening standards to ensure a higher caliber of people doing that job.


* sorry if I upset any police... I know not all are bad and don't mean it that way.
 
spork183 said:
guy only been there 2 years. No history of shooting people in the back. BART police just started using tasers. Watch his motions in the video. There is no way he thought he was using deadly force.

Should he have been trained better? HY. Should he even have been deploying his taser at that time? Doesn't look like it, but I wasn't there.

"execution, is the killing of a person by judicial process for retribution and incapacitation" (courtesy of wikipedia)

It also SAH was not an execution, no matter how much people want to incite anger.

Double standard? You bet. Anyone outside of law enforcement fires that shot, they're in custody instantly. Many people don't connect the double standard.

For all that, this was a tragic freaking accident.
Click to expand...

I said this on another board, there is no excuse for this to happen. None.

This guy should recieve the same legal treatment that any of us would recieve, had the same happened.

Imagine telling the judge after sentencing "I swear I thought it was a tazer!". You'd be laughed at the whole way to prison for manslaughter.
 
Ex-officer arrested in BART shooting

(CNN) -- The former police officer accused of shooting an unarmed man at a northern California commuter train station was arrested Tuesday in Nevada, authorities told CNN affiliate KGO-TV.


Oscar Grant, 22, was killed January 1 in a shooting at a subway station in California's Bay Area.

Former Bay Area Rapid Transit officer Johannes Mehserle was arrested on a fugitive warrant connected to the fatal shooting, KGO reported.
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*Sigh* another black man shot and its the Rodney King beating riots all over again, if it'd been a while dude shot by a black cop he'd been vindicated already and this would be "just another guy got shot" case.

Wheres the uproar when a white persons killed by a black man? or are whites too chicken to rise up?
 
Mistaking a firearm for a taser is not that unusual when you see how the taser is designed to look. I saw a picture of one that was both the same shape and color as a standard issue LEO firearm.

Seriously folks, if you think that the mistaken taser defense is unrealistic, do you honestly believe that this BART cop intended to kill a restrained, unarmed man in front of all those witnesses and the potential for the presence of camera phones? Look at the cop's reaction: it's clear he realized that he screwed up on a catastrophic scale.

Personally, I've grown up riding BART frequently and have seen plenty of shady stuff at their stations (which are often located in rough neighborhoods) and I'm glad that they carry firearms, but in this particular instance, that policy set the stage for an irreparable tragedy. Hopefully, the next time an officer pulls whatever weapon he or she is armed with they'll think of this case and the four year old girl that now no longer has her father.
 
MacNoobie said:
*Sigh* another black man shot and its the Rodney King beating riots all over again, if it'd been a while dude shot by a black cop he'd been vindicated already and this would be "just another guy got shot" case.

Wheres the uproar when a white persons killed by a black man? or are whites too chicken to rise up?
Click to expand...

I think the more reasonable option instead of "rising up" would be to open the channels of dialogue which often get cut off in the face of political correctness.
 
serious questions should be (need to be) raised if it is found that the gun accidentally went off, especially if the suspect did not grab the gun away.
 
Cavemate K said:
I think the more reasonable option instead of "rising up" would be to open the channels of dialogue which often get cut off in the face of political correctness.
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Yeah try telling that to all those angry African Americans that are pissed because a white guy shot an unarmed African American. I would love to open a dialog but it wont help very much at all trying to talk to people and get the violence to subside. Its like trying to ask a bully politely to stop doing what ever it is that he's doing.. just doesn't work that way.

Dont get me wrong its tragic that this man died over something so stupid and I believe the white cop should get whats coming to him pending and investigation. It just irks me when I see African Americans in an uproar turning over cars, rioting all over the place and somehow people understand their pain but if a black cop kills a white unarmed man and I protest.. everyone screams racist.

Now the other part of all of this is that these stations are located in rough neighborhoods. I'm not really surprised that the cop had carried a gun on him, maybe he was trained for tazer's simply forgot and shot the dude out of instinct and past training because you can see his reaction I don't think anyone would intentionally shoot this dude in front of everyone with a camera phone. I also don't blame this guy for running either, yeah he shouldn't but it was either dying at the hand of a mob or a court.
 
Ive really tried to analyze this video, and my amateur opinion is that the gun went off accidentally. He was a rookie, inept cop for sure. The gun went off as he stood up, so it's likely he over-squeezed the trigger. I just cant believe he intended to kill an unarmed, detained man in front of two hundred witnesses. And afterward he put both hands to his head as if to say "oh my god, what just happened?" It has all the signs of an accidental shooting, but even accidents shouldnt come without punishment, since more is expected from police. But to label it as intentional murder, and for people to riot over it is out of line in my opinion

What a terrible shame for all involved.
 
Cavemate K said:
Mistaking a firearm for a taser is not that unusual when you see how the taser is designed to look. I saw a picture of one that was both the same shape and color as a standard issue LEO firearm.

Seriously folks, if you think that the mistaken taser defense is unrealistic, do you honestly believe that this BART cop intended to kill a restrained, unarmed man in front of all those witnesses and the potential for the presence of camera phones? Look at the cop's reaction: it's clear he realized that he screwed up on a catastrophic scale.

Personally, I've grown up riding BART frequently and have seen plenty of shady stuff at their stations (which are often located in rough neighborhoods) and I'm glad that they carry firearms, but in this particular instance, that policy set the stage for an irreparable tragedy. Hopefully, the next time an officer pulls whatever weapon he or she is armed with they'll think of this case and the four year old girl that now no longer has her father.
Click to expand...

Firstly, if you've ever held a Taser X26 you'd know that they're nothing like a standard issue Glock 22. The grip is significantly smaller, with only two fingers on the grip, and the trigger is placed inside the frame of the weapon. Not only it it a different shape, it also weighs MUCH less than a firearm. And if that isn't enough, it also doesn't have traditional sights, only a laser sight.

And if somehow this numbskull STILL managed to get the two confused, IT STILL DOESN'T MATTER. You're not allowed to make a mistake like this. Period. There is no excuse. No matter what the reason, no matter how it happened, it does not matter. All that matters is that this officer shot and killed a restrained person.

This guy should recieve the same treatment as if any of us had done the same, manslaughter.
 
FX120 said:
Firstly, if you've ever held a Taser X26 you'd know that they're nothing like a standard issue Glock 22. The grip is significantly smaller, with only two fingers on the grip, and the trigger is placed inside the frame of the weapon. Not only it it a different shape, it also weighs MUCH less than a firearm. And if that isn't enough, it also doesn't have traditional sights, only a laser sight.

And if somehow this numbskull STILL managed to get the two confused, IT STILL DOESN'T MATTER. You're not allowed to make a mistake like this. Period. There is no excuse. No matter what the reason, no matter how it happened, it does not matter. All that matters is that this officer shot and killed a restrained person.

This guy should recieve the same treatment as if any of us had done the same, manslaughter.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Manslaughter sounds like the right call. I just don't buy into the idea that he intended to murder Mr. Grant right there in front of dozens of witnesses and colleagues. The officer clearly deserves to be punished, but IMO, not for murder.
 
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