He's only doing what his police friends/lawyers are telling him to do. He probably will when he feels like its appropriate, or rather, they.
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BART Police kill unarmed man [video]
- Thread starter BittenApple
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He's only doing what his police friends/lawyers are telling him to do. He probably will when he feels like its appropriate, or rather, they.
They haven't stripped him from his badge at all? This idiot, assuming it was gross incompetence, should never be on any police force, anywhere.
I know a cop who is a great man and is very well educated, and he himself said that 95% of the fellow cops he works with are complete jackasses. I believe him. Joining the police is the easiest road to power over people.
This cop should be held on trial, and get a life sentence if found guilty so he can rot like he made that 22 year old guy.
I am not saying the 22 year old is innocent, but if he was unarmed, and from what I saw he was cooperating but the video was sketchy.
This cop should be held on trial, and get a life sentence if found guilty so he can rot like he made that 22 year old guy.
I am not saying the 22 year old is innocent, but if he was unarmed, and from what I saw he was cooperating but the video was sketchy.
I thnk it is pretty standard across the country that the officer is placed on administrative leave until the investigation is complete.
I beleive that means the badge and weapon are turned in.
They can not legelly strip his badge until the investigation is over. They most they can do right now is suspension with pay.
It is my understanding with most police force any time they are involved in a shooting or they shoot there gun at some one they officer is suspended with pay and required to go to therapy. It is a standard proceeder even if the officer was clearly in the right to use their gun.
The Cop involved in the shooting is also told not to say anything to the media or any one until after the investigation.
Not so. Growing up I saw more white cops than cops of color.
How many unarmed white males you know that has been killed by the police?
I'm not saying it's racism, it's the realtiy. "they" most police has no respect for the life of someone of color. I can count on my hands and feet people I knew personally, or knew of that has been killed by the boys in blue and not one was white and not one was killed by a cop of color.
This is the sad truth, no playing the 'race card'. Just a reality we all must face.
My uncle was best friends with a vice cop and told him how he rides around with an extra gun just in case he has to shoot someone...leave the gun and say the perp was armed. This was in the early 80's.
I hear this isn't the first time this cop has been in this situation
just for the record, 4 of the people I knew ran from the police, 2 happpen to reach for something, 3 was chokehold, was this justified....all were under the age of 25. These are people I knew personally.
I would say probably not. Some tasers resemble handguns because that form factor is the most convenient to use. If he had one of those, I suppose there is a *tiny* chance he made an honest mistake. I wouldn't want to rule it out entirely.
BUT as soon as he drew his handgun, he should have felt the difference in weight and balance between the two weapons. Police armed with both types of weapons should have a very clear way of distinguishing between the two - make the taser a different color for example, or have the texture of the hand grips be very different so the officer can tell by feel which weapon he is grabbing.
All I'm trying to say is that simply passing this off as nothing more than a racially-motivated killing is a massive simplification at best and totally off-base at worst.
Apparently so - this came to light during the news this AM. I didn't quite grasp it all, but something about how the tasers they use are pistol shaped, how they're supposed to pass them off to officers depending on the shift they're working, and how they're supposed to wear a gun on one specific side and a taser on the other in similar holsters.
Frankly, it sounded like a load of BS so the jury pool on the pending $25 Million lawsuit against BART isn't completely tainted. The same report went on to state that in some of the videos the officer who did the shooting looked shocked and horrified, as if he expected a different result. Again, there are at least two lawsuits pending and with all the press the videos are getting, the jury pool is getting rapidly tainted.
The only thing I took away from the whole report was that the tasers and guns do have some sort of similar shape. The rest of it sounds like early damage control.
Wrong on both counts. This is not an opportunity for Oakland bashing, and I've lived here for almost 10 years - including owning a home not in "the hills." Oakland has a long history of excessive police force and brutality, which despite whatever other problems the city has does not excuse this simple fact.
How much time have you spent around police training? I work with the police in another service everyday, and participate in certain elements of their training. I gotta be honest, very little of what you have said here makes sense to me at all.
Have to agree with you.
A lot of the comments are straight out of television with no basis in reality.
I can't comment on the incident, I wasn't there.
A dodgy bit of video isn't reliable.
Yes, I googled some and it appears that, while some tasers look like this:
There are others that look like this...
There were some pics on google images of the latter sort of design in all black, and at least it does vaguely look like a gun. It still seems sketchy to me that the person holding it and using it could be fooled, but okay, I'm sure that's something that a court can consider.
I didn't train with the police, my late uncle however did train with the Toronto Police force and died at gunpoint. My father did go to spend 1 year training for service and decided against continuing when his brother in law died during that year.
The differences in our social cultures (Canada vs the USA) may be a major factor in what I posted above, that you quoted. Hence why I sound a bit looney.
Major differences that I'm aware of:
* Toronto Police must withdraw their weapon ONLY when harm to the public, themselves, or in a hostage situation is assessed.
* Toronto Police must always file a written and formal report for just withdrawing their weapon which will be investigated internally - and carry's penalty's if its deemed not warranted. And it doesn't matter if its fired or not, pointed at someone or not, or for a TV show.
* It would be difficult to find more than 15/100 citizens in Toronto to have a licensed/unlicensed firearm (at home/on them). Especially after last quarters successful police campaign to turn in your licensed firearm for a $1000 digital camera of your choice (over 2500 firearms where voluntarily submitted).
Many times in a threatening situation, a Toronto Police officer will first warn a suspect holding a weapon (with hand on their firearm, and a hand pointing to them) before withdrawing their weapon. Police here don't withdraw their weapon after pulling over someone drunk driving or a minor traffic voilation. OPP; that may be a different story.
From what you've seen James, have you seen an officer withdraw their weapon to an assailent NOT holding a weapon? Not endangering the public or themselves? Should an officer (Canadian/United States in a local city police force) withdraw their weapon mindlessly/habitually JUST because a weapon (knife, gun, night-stick, pipe) is shown/seen (initially) in the hands of anyone? or should a few seconds to assess the situation be done first? Don't police ever think of whats behind the target if a bullet is fired?
In an extremely stressful and dangerous situation, it is very easy to confuse what you are doing. You may pull your gun and fire, thinking you're actually holding a tazer and just stunning him. Sure, you can tell the difference between the two in a calm situation....however, not necessarily in stressed moment when you're not fully thinking about what your doing. Police are supposed to be highly trained and able to handle a variety of high stress situations. However, they are human too. They can make mistakes just as we all can. This officer may have not even realized what s/he was doing.
While the cop should be charged as anyone else would be and have no hope of getting this job again, he will probably receive no more punishment than being suspended with pay.
How about 5 or 6 dodgy videos? There are far better videos of the incident, and IMO, even the use of a taser would have been out of line. He was on the ground, and the other cop already had his knee on his neck. There was no kicking and such. Even if the victim was talking smack, or squirming a bit, that should be treated as a TYPICAL situation when you're dealing with such a person. Well, it's typical for a real cop. I don't know if fake cops have seen the same.
http://www.ktvu.com/index.html
There's an entire BART SHOOTING tab.
EDIT: See HERE. Good angle, although I've seen the same video in much better quality. I can't find it though.
There's an entire BART SHOOTING tab.
EDIT: See HERE. Good angle, although I've seen the same video in much better quality. I can't find it though.
Well, first off I'm Canadian so I'm not sure there are any cultural differences. Well you are from Toronto, but the only part of that I hold against you is your hockey team, which sucks.
Secondly, my sincere condolences to your family in regards to your uncle's LODD. I have had to attend several of these funerals, and it is always hard.
Now, on to replying to your message...
Here are the areas I disagree with you on:
1) You CAN control the incapacitation of an assailant with a Taser to some degree. You can control the initial delivery of energy, and repeated deliveries. Taser's work against the nervous system of the body, so it doesn't really matter where the barbs hit. when you are hit with a taser it sends the energy into the central nervous system, causing massive muscle contractions and hopefully incapacitating the subject.
2) Shooting center mass is not an excuse, it is an absolutely proven necessity in firearms training. When faced with an assailant who has the potential to kill or maim, in a time sensitive pressure situation, you aim for the biggest target and neutralize the threat. The chest provides you a target about 18 inches wide, by 2 or 3 feet tall. At any significant distance that is a small target, made even more difficult to hit in a pressure situation because it is moving and often targeting you at the same time. Moving arms and legs are insanely difficult targets to hit, and usually do not neutralize the threat. There is a MUCH larger chance of missing an arm or leg, allowing the assailant to continue attacking you, and creating a greater risk of the stray bullet hitting an innocent person. People who think the police shouldn't shoot center mass either don't shoot handguns themselves, watch too much tv, or both.
3) If an officer's life is in danger and it is necessary to neutralize the threat... it gets neutralized. Hopefully escalating levels of force can be used. Hopefully the assailant's actions allow time for the officer to warn them. At the end of the day, however, if an assailant is threatening the life of a police officer and the officer shoots them it is not the fault of the officer... it is the fault of the assailant. Personal responsibility is a powerful thing.
4) In regards to your knife comment, a knife is an INSANELY HUGE threat... in close quarters easily equal to or worse than a gun. Many studies have shown that it takes an officer an average of 1.5 seconds to draw his weapon and fire one unsighted round. The average person can rapidly cross 14'/second. If the assailant attacks with the element of surprise he can cross 20 feet and stab/slash the officer before the officer can even get off a sighted shot at center mass... let alone attempting to aim for a limb. People in no way respect the threat of a knife enough. If I was an officer and felt the threat of a knife was present anywhere within 30' of me you can bet your ass I would be thinking of defending myself.
Please note I am not commenting on the original post at all, but more about your comments regarding police tactics and abilities. Like any occupations there are good cops and bad ones, but there are also universal truths about defensive tactics in life threatening situations, and your comments didn't seem in sync with these tactics.
Now, back to mocking your hockey team.
cmon Toronto does suck half as much as those other so called Canadian hockey teams