BBC Documentary Claims Apple Fails to Protect Chinese Factory Workers

[tzeshan]

you're both partially write IMHO.

While apple isn't the owner of pegatron, and therefore not directly responsible for the way Pegatron operates, Apple is Pegatron's (and other factories) largest purchaser. Apple's constant business ethics of Mandatory profit margins, and low balling vendors in a race for the cheapest, they have been part of the problem that encourages and endorses this sort of behaviour by their vendors.

The Vendors, in order to maintain their cheapness and cost effectiveness, which Apple and many others desires so much, have to operate with these ridiculous hours and wages for employees. it is the only way many of these companies can come even close to a winning bid. If suppliers were willing to pay contracts that were more in the "living wages" area, designed so that there's enough money involved that the suppliers can put in proper standards, these factories could hire more people, reduce hours people have to work and increase wages.

of course, then you might as well move production back home, and help our own economies out... but that doesn't please Stock holders. so we continue to perpetuate the overseas cheap labour situation in order to maximize those profits at the cost of those working there.

Your reasoning through profit margins is flawed. I can also argue that those cheap manufacturers sell dirt cheap Android devices. In order to survive they have to suppress wages and require ridiculous hours, etc.

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Imagine if they simply made their products here and decided it was OK make less money. We would have good paying jobs and good products, but wouldn't be maximizing profits.

So more of the people that buy your products would be able to afford more of them.

This is the most stupid thoughts from people that do not understand how US works. Apple profits translate to high stock prices and high market value. These are wealths shared by millions of Americans through stock ownership and mutual funds. If Apple profits are greatly reduced through domestic manufacturing, enormous money will be lost.

 

[linuxcooldude]

you're both partially write IMHO.

While apple isn't the owner of pegatron, and therefore not directly responsible for the way Pegatron operates, Apple is Pegatron's (and other factories) largest purchaser. Apple's constant business ethics of Mandatory profit margins, and low balling vendors in a race for the cheapest, they have been part of the problem that encourages and endorses this sort of behaviour by their vendors.

The Vendors, in order to maintain their cheapness and cost effectiveness, which Apple and many others desires so much, have to operate with these ridiculous hours and wages for employees. it is the only way many of these companies can come even close to a winning bid. If suppliers were willing to pay contracts that were more in the "living wages" area, designed so that there's enough money involved that the suppliers can put in proper standards, these factories could hire more people, reduce hours people have to work and increase wages.

of course, then you might as well move production back home, and help our own economies out... but that doesn't please Stock holders. so we continue to perpetuate the overseas cheap labour situation in order to maximize those profits at the cost of those working there.

A manufacturer filling a contract requirement for a client is not the same thing as saying the client controls their factory. Its really a ridiculous statement.

Both the buyer and seller are looking out for their best interests. Thats how these contracts are negotiated before hand.

so we continue to perpetuate the overseas cheap labour situation in order to maximize those profits at the cost of those working there.

Its not only about cheaper labor. It also about logistics in meeting the demands of enough sufficient qualified engineers and workmen and the huge amount of raw materials that already exist in China.

 

[GigabitEthernet]

You are partially correct. Apple controls Pegatron through business contracts. Pegatron instead directly controls the factory.

To clarify, I mean that effectively as the biggest user of Pegatron, Apple has the say about how the factories are setup.

 

[Rogifan]

Apple doesn't own the factories, so if the factories leak photos of Apple's new products, Apple doesn't really have a say, do they?

If Apple can demand that non-Apple factories producing Apple products live up to a certain level of IP security, they can also demand that the factories meet certain criteria for how well they treat their employees.

If Apple doesn't insist (and sanction the factories that are not compliant) then Apple is to blame.

Stories like this hurt Apple's image, which is important to them.

Yeah Apple surely has control over supply chain leaks.

 

[linuxcooldude]

To clarify, I mean that effectively as the biggest user of Pegatron, Apple has the say about how the factories are setup.

While Apple has purchasing power, its still a far cry in saying it controls any company.

 

[tzeshan]

To clarify, I mean that effectively as the biggest user of Pegatron, Apple has the say about how the factories are setup.

Apple requires suppliers to sign Supplier agreements. But you do realize Apple does not have daily control/monitor the factories? Apple is not responsible for what is going on inside the factories. This is the same as SEC. SEC has control over all public traded companies. Still SEC is not responsible for all insider trading activities.

 

[thadoggfather]

It'll be interesting to see if Apple does actually do anything about this. Though Foxconn/Pegatron are suppliers to every electronic manufacturer, Apple does have enough capital to make things happen. So much cash reserve that's not being used for innovation, or really good in general relative to the bloat. Especially for a CEO who prides himself on "doing the right thing"



...22:50 "This iPhone 6 testing area virtually has no one awake"

That would explain a lot of lack of QC!

 

[paul4339]

you're both partially write IMHO.

...
... If suppliers were willing to pay contracts that were more in the "living wages" area, designed so that there's enough money involved that the suppliers can put in proper standards, these factories could hire more people, reduce hours people have to work and increase wages.

...

I believe Apple (Foxconn) pays superior wages relative to other manufacturers and they are regarded as a choice employer as well... but you are correct that on a global standard (eg, compared to the U.S.) it's obviously below. IMO, most suppliers won't put standards in place unless they are demanded or forced to by an external party (government, the buyer, public shame, competition ..)

.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

I don't ask the folks at Apple Retail if they've gotten enough rest. I don't ensure the ARS employee's safety. That's the job of the employer.

I don't understand how it's Apple's or Dell's or HP's responsibility to ensure FOXCONN workers are getting enough rest.

Not trying to be an Apple apologist here, just saying that Apple and the rest may want to pull their business if they know something is up, but it's not their responsibility to make sure folks in another company aren't working themselves too hard.

There's a lot of fabrication in documentary story telling. The most recent one I can recall is 12 O' Clock Boys, which is total garbage.

They won't pull their business unless consumers close their wallets. Exposing them is not enough.

 

[SonicSoundVW]

It might have been said before, but the BBC should have done a report titled. "BBC Documentary Claims China Fails to Protect Chinese Factory Workers"

 

[Ironduke]

What are you trying to say? A weak and pathetic attempt at trying to insult me?
Or is it, if something doesn't fit your tight little uniformed narrative, you lash out at the ones that attempt to educated you, but you will have none of that.


Xenophobe...haha...hardly.
I guarantee you, that I have spent more time in your so called country than you have spent in mine.
O-blightey.

in speaking of others you describe what you did perfectly, speak for and of yourself and not for others troll

you know nothing GOB

LOL VIOLENTLY AT YOU, YOU EDUCATE ME, oh yankee

 

[nebo1ss]

Thumbs up

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Economies of scale is a good thing and I seriously doubt this shotty journalist really did his research properly to get that $5 number.

Apple's profit margin is 40% according to publicly available data.
Why should they decrease it?
Should the shareholders just give up what is rightfully theirs?

You know it does not take a lot of research or a math degree to work out the number. How much does Apple pay the factory to assemble their phones divided by the number of phones assembled. It might even be easier because I suspect the contract payment is calculated on a per unit basis.

 

[Lankyman]

I've always said it and now the proof, you guys would defend Apple even if it were proved they were taking their workers outside to be shot for not working hard enough.

You are without shame or embarrassment. Why do you find it so hard to believe that Apple could behave in this way? Still from a land where cults take hold with such apparent ease I guess the rest of the world shouldn't be too surprised.

 

[xSinghx]

Where did you ask a legitimate question? They are all rhetorical in nature. Your entire response is a fallacy since it misrepresents and mis-characterizes my argument by selectively responding to a specific aspect in order to make your own point and support your own agenda. That's intellectually lazy.

In point of 'fact' any rational person would characterize your response to my initial viewpoint of the documentary as a 'straw-man'. You simply can't get around logic. Stating that you are illogical is not an 'accusation'.

Try and be objective instead of self-righteous. You're writing is emotionally charged and arrogant which doesn't beget a productive discussion on an important issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivity_(philosophy))
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-righteousness

Pushing aside your multiple ad hominem attacks ("self-righteous," "arrogant," etc) against me...

All of the questions were legitimate given the shallowness of your initial statements. Some of them may have been phrased in a condescending manner (rightly) but were certainly not without merit in what they were asking.

For all of your bluster about rules of argument (which you clearly don't apply to yourself and mislabel me with) you still haven't engaged in a substantive argument.

Nor do you even bother to justify the fallacy labels you so gleefully throw around. Stating "any rational person...[would agree with me]" is the worst and silliest justification for an accusation I've ever seen.

No one has mischaracterized what you've said - what you've said - is simply weak as an argument. You bemoan Apple as a target being singled out yet fail to argue with any depth why a highly visible giant transnational corporation that is financing the problem shouldn't be scrutinized. Further you state it is not the job of corporations but governments to have oversight on the matters that Apple is financially responsible for, totally ignoring Apple's or any other company's role in shaping government regulation or oversight. You then admonish the BBC because they did not focus on other companies and solely Apple (an ad hominem fallacy in itself) while failing to state why this is a problem - simply asserting it to be so. The point of course is not who else is guilty of wrong doing but the wrongness of the thing itself.

If you want to talk about intellectual laziness you'd do better to introspect a little more (as Renzatic pointed out) before casting insults and decrying anyone who challenges you with a question as submitting to a fallacy. You appear as little more than a white-washing reactionary willing to throw mud at anyone casting a critical eye at your unsupported assertions.

 

[yellowtruck]

News outlets push buttons intentionally to stir emotion & keep u addicted

What a reminder of the rights and civilized fairness we fought for over the centuries, to end these tyrannical work environment here in America. Apple should not be blamed for China’s dark ages of workers’ rights and fairness void. You can’t change a nations ethics and morals however, you can improve the relationship and conditionalize the partnership to integrate fairness at the foundries and that’s exactly what Apple is doing.

Humans respond to drama worthy news drama like they do to shiny glittery objects. News outlets push buttons intentionally to stir emotion to keep your addiction to news perpetuated and increasing ad revenue at all costs, including truth!

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

Article http://www.businessinsider.com/secr...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Quote from facebook.....


"Think of this the next time you brag about your iPhone 6's "beautiful, clean design." It is disgusting, yet what am I using? An iPhone"

 

[Lankyman]

From a nation that claims to espouse the cause of free speech there are plenty posters on this particular thread that appear to be decrying the right of the BBC to do just that with their criticism of Apple in this documentary.

I suspect many of the posters haven't even seen this programme but feel they can add comment unseen.

If Apple doesn't want to be criticised then perhaps it needs to examine its corporate face to the world as opposed to what actually happens on the ground. The secret filming wasn't made up nor was it over dramatised. The destruction of the land for tin wasn't made up, neither was the film of young children working in appalling unsafe conditions trying to extract it.

This is a mega-rich global enterprise and as such it should be doing a lot more to shape what happens at the sharp end.

I too own Apple products but I don't mind admitting I felt more than a little uncomfortable about my purchases after watching this documentary.

 

[SHNXX]

BBC Documentary Claims Apple Fails to Protect Chinese Factory Workers

Actually my friend, I am the boss and see "your" type of 60 hours a week every day of my life. If you are truly working 60 hours a week and you're the boss, you would know that it is for that exact reason you cannot choose when to work or not! By the way, I hope your grasp of your second language is as good as mine.

By the way, English is my second language, so I can assure you that my grasp of it is better than the grasp of your first, which is English (not so apparently), friend.

Why don't you just keep your provincial views to yourself and let the poor 60-hours-per-week Chinese workers and the factory owners ("bosses") decide for themselves what works for them?

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

Your reasoning through profit margins is flawed. I can also argue that those cheap manufacturers sell dirt cheap Android devices. In order to survive they have to suppress wages and require ridiculous hours, etc.

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This is the most stupid thoughts from people that do not understand how US works. Apple profits translate to high stock prices and high market value. These are wealths shared by millions of Americans through stock ownership and mutual funds. If Apple profits are greatly reduced through domestic manufacturing, enormous money will be lost.

Wrong! U.S production would build massive wealth for the nation in terms of a bigger GDP/Tax base.

 

[69650]

I did a search on Twitter and was amazed (well not really) at how many people used the term "Apple factories". So either the BBC wasn't very clear that these are not Apple's factories and these factories are used by many tech companies or they were perfectly fine with people thinking these are Apple factories and Apple employees.

I honestly don't know why this is so hard for some people to comprehend.

Quote (source link below): "We care about every worker in our worldwide supply chain. Any accident is deeply troubling, and any issue with working conditions is cause for concern. Any suggestion that we don't care is patently false and offensive to us. It's not who we are." Tim Cook

The BBC documentary was trying to find out if Apple are living up to this promise. Nothing more, nothing less. Why is this so difficult to understand?

Source: "http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/tim-cook-apple-cares-about-every-worker-in-its-supply-chain/

 

[Rogifan]

I honestly don't know why this is so hard for some people to comprehend.

Quote (source link below): "We care about every worker in our worldwide supply chain. Any accident is deeply troubling, and any issue with working conditions is cause for concern. Any suggestion that we don't care is patently false and offensive to us. It's not who we are." Tim Cook

The BBC documentary was trying to find out if Apple are living up to this promise. Nothing more, nothing less. Why is this so difficult to understand?

Source: "http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/tim-cook-apple-cares-about-every-worker-in-its-supply-chain/

PS You'll note that I've sourced the quote from an American media outlet as you obviously don't believe any journalists outside the US are worthy of comment on a yankee doddle dandy company.

Ha, US media outlets are just as bad if not worse. Anyway if Apple is responsible for workers in the supply chain then so is everyone who buys an Apple product. Without consumers buying their products there's nothing to build and no Chinese factory worker to exploit. Or maybe there's some VC firm in Silicon Valley that will invest in US manufacturing instead of instant messaging and photo sharing apps.

Twit gets it right: http://twit.tv/show/tech-news-today/1159

 

[michelepri]

It's not Apple in this case. It's people like the "Mactumors" readers playing tough that are driving many people back to Windows 7 and Android. It's sad but it's true, and their blind obedience doesn't help Apple at all. On the contrary.

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Thank god I live in Germany where excellent technology seems to be produced domestically with decent working conditions and laws.

The US will be competing against China and many "machos"on this forum are defending Foxkom despite the fact that they would not survive a single day in there. %Their problem. If they thin their country will be better with slaves and whips let them have it. It's not hard to imagine which position most of them will take. But let them get 3d print guns and make bunkers

Thank god I'm in Europe

 

[Col4bin]

Watch the program and then reflect on how silly your comments are

Again, these are not Apple employees. Stop being such a bleeding heart.

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Go back to school or stay in school, or Google how the BBC makes money. Either way please don't comment on things you have NO CLUE ABOUT!

Tad bit sensitive there, huh? Tough day?

 

[michelepri]

Funny to see Apple and play macho with Iphones when most people know that the< are 5 years behind Android, and therefore they will take a big ugly hit sooner or later. So if they think they can save the company with old good american slavery moved abroad they might be wrong. It's an old strategy that does not reflect the excellent talent within Apple. Too bad, if they lose we all lose. Very soon we'll go to Walmart and get the best system for the price, and it will work well too. Apple phones remain for those hypnotised people that would salivate on anything Apple produces instead of quality, reality and service.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Funny to see Apple and play macho with Iphones when most people know that the< are 5 years behind Android, and therefore they will take a big ugly hit sooner or later. So if they think they can save the company with old good american slavery moved abroad they might be wrong. It's an old strategy that does not reflect the excellent talent within Apple. Too bad, if they lose we all lose. Very soon we'll go to Walmart and get the best system for the price, and it will work well too. Apple phones remain for those hypnotised people that would salivate on anything Apple produces instead of quality, reality and service.

Is this a joke? lol

I suppose it just comes down to what brand we like our slave labour to come from, they're all using it.