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They're bug fixes and updates, simple, and should be called as much.


And since almost every version of OS X has been through multiple revisions and updates, this is news how?

Don't get me wrong; I have unresolved wireless problems on my home network due to Leopard. I'm spinning nothing, just patiently waiting for a fix rather than telling people that Macs are somehow fatally flawed because Apple release updates.
 
And since almost every version of OS X has been through multiple revisions and updates, this is news how?

Don't get me wrong; I have unresolved wireless problems on my home network due to Leopard. I'm spinning nothing, just patiently waiting for a fix rather than telling people that Macs are somehow fatally flawed because Apple release updates.

So I can expect that nobody will be saying Windows is fatally flawed because Microsoft releases updates from now on... excellent. 😀

I believe we're both on the same level with our points, actually. Considering how I like many others can do effectively anything in Windows that any person can do in OSX, I sometimes wonder why the two "camps" are always fighting in the first place. I don't think it's "fair" of Apple to call OSX "The world's most advanced operating system," personally. I consider it false advertising as there's nothing it can do that I can't do with most any version of any other OS, as quickly as OSX can do it, sometimes with more steps, more often than not with less (my experience, mind you), and with similar or exactly the same results.

It's like saying "Let's add 5 + 5. I'm going to do it with my fingers, you do it with your toes, and we'll see who gets what. Ok, I get 10... you get 10 too? That can't be right... you used your toes, and obviously my fingers are superior in every way." Guess I need to use "The Chewbacca Defense" on this one... 😉

I'll never figure it out I suppose... would be nice someday, though.
 
I gotta pipe in here and say:

Why would someone need "improvement" for "the world's most advanced operating system" ? Eh? If it's so damned advanced, what's with all the updates -

The similarities are mind boggling... 🙂

In your passion for trying to prove something...err...what ever it is...I think you might want to look up the definition of "advanced"...advanced does not mean perfect...it means ahead of the rest (of the competition). So yes, the the world's most advanced operating system still needs updates but it is still light years ahead of M$. But then again...so is linux, OS/2, BeOS...I think you get my point

And for the record, I have only ever had 1 kernel panic since using OS X and that was due to a faulty airport card...replaced the card...all was good...so, I would call OS X rock solid...mmm...yup, I would
 
... but it is still light years ahead of M$. But then again...so is linux, OS/2, BeOS...I think you get my point

Then you might be so kind as to define "light years ahead" as you so eloquently put it. My post above just said I or any other person can do anything OSX can do with any other OS... not just Windows, or a Linux distro (Linux isn't an OS, yanno, it's a kernel), OS/2 (kinda old, ain't it?), BeOS (kinda dead, ain't it?), etc...

If I (or someone else) can do whatever you can do, why is one any better than the other? "Better" or "Best" tends to be very subjective stuff... so I'm curious.
 
I recently 'downgraded' 2 of my machines (a G4 mini and a G5 iMac) to Tiger.

I found some buggy issues with Leopard, be they with Printer drivers, airport etc, a few of them were sorted by updates by Apple or HP etc.

Having the icons jumbled up issue was extremely annoying and nothing seems to be sorting that.

Also on these machines I never felt the need to use all the flashy new features - spaces, preview, coverflow etc. In fact tbh I rarely use dashboard in Tiger even!

I needed something rock solid, stable and simple and that was Tiger. My iMac recently Kernel panicked to oblivion, so needed a new install anyways.

I still have 1 machine on Leopard - a new-ish Intel mini and I can't be bothered to downgrade that.

Finally I will never forget my blue screen of death that I got when I first installed Leopard. 😡
 

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Ok, some observations ;

1) Your running Windows in an virtualised environment. I personally can vouch for VMware on a Mac but I don't know about Parrallels. What I do know is that you a) need a LOT of ram if you think your going to chop in and out of it like you would an app and b) VM can be a CPU hog if Windows is getting it's knickers in a twist.

That said VMware has NEVER crashed my mac but it has been a greedy bugger with my CPU on a Macbook once or twice to the point that I've killed it off cos I just got bored of it. Fortunately there is nothing I need to run on a PC so it hardly get's used.

2) Don't expect every piece of software running on a Mac to run as well as the OS or Apple written s/w. Apple are top of the class at software and I have to say their own apps are second to none. If you want stability, best of class s/w and an easy life always buy an Apple s/w package if they do an option that covers your needs (ie iLife, Pro Apps)...That said there are some great 3rd party apps and not one has ever taken down my core OS.

3) If your having OS issues you have a BIG problem.

4) Do not use driver disks - that's a 'windows' hangover. For 99% of the time the Mac will work with your peripheral hardware without putting drivers on - the case actually goes with the mac that you can destabilize a peripheral or other functions of the OS by actually installing shoddy third party drivers. Trust in Apple and you'll be ok - trust in some dodgy driver and your running the gauntlet.

5) go easy on funky little GUI enhancement apps that worm there way in deep to the OS. Once the OS is updated things start getting out of synch.

Other than that I really don't see why you can't have an absolutely 100% bullet proof OS X experience. If you don't then, if you forgive me for putting it so bluntly, then you are doing something seriously stupid all the time or you have a H/W fault.

To finish, I'd say Leopard IS rock solid...external influences may not always be so...
 
2) Don't expect every piece of software running on a Mac to run as well as the OS or Apple written s/w. Apple are top of the class at software and I have to say their own apps are second to none. If you want stability, best of class s/w and an easy life always buy an Apple s/w package if they do an option that covers your needs (ie iLife, Pro Apps)...That said there are some great 3rd party apps and not one has ever taken down my core OS.

Actually I'd disagree with that.

I'm having issues with Safari when I watch videos online. The video is choppy, whatever the resolution, and afterwards scrolling is choppy. If I quit Safari and restart it goes back to normal.

iTunes insists on saving it's library every time I quit - all 80GB of it.

Leopard itself won't let me eject my phone after I've plugged it in.

Preview is very sluggish with PDFs (1.5MB files) - to the extent that you can see the file redrawing on the screen.

My BT mouse randomly goes very slow and both the KB & mouse disconnect themselves.

The fans keep revving themselves up to max - and staying like that. It's 20ºC here.

It's not a RAM issue - I have 2.5GB.

Nor did I have these issues with Tiger.

To finish, I'd say Leopard IS rock solid...external influences may not always be so...

I'm glad it is for you. For me it's not. It is solid, far more than anything else but I'd gotten used to having zero issues with Panther & Tiger.

That's not the case anymore.
 
Linux isn't an OS, yanno, it's a kernel

A kernel and bootloader = an operating system. Everything else is fluff that is all that is meant by an operating system, the low level parts that control the hardware.

Of course you can include the GUI etc in your operating system definition but it is not required.
 
One of my biggest hopes was I'd not suffer this on a Mac. The reality is on a good day it maybe occurs quarter of the time it did on XP and on a bad day like yesterday, the same amount of times. Yesterday I was left wanting a t-shirt which read:

"Force Quit,
Force Quit,
Force Quit,
F**cking Force Quit the B**tard"

Yesterday may have been more demanding as I was using Parallels quite a bit (to get some data over). But the point remands the same - on moving to the Mac you may not be hitting CTRL+ALT+DEL but you will be hitting COMMAND+OPTION+ESCAPE, albeit somewhat less often.


Wow, maybe it's just me, but I hardly ever have to force quit an application, and when I do I've never had one that didn't quit the second I told it to. Maybe either I get lucky and got the machine that never fails at that, or you got the unlucky one that can't do it right.
 
well first off thanks for the lack of flamming. It's was actually Apple diehards who put me off moving to a Mac more than a year ago; I'd noticed that off Steve Jobs produced an iTurd, they would be calling it a break-thru, and lining up over night to eat it first thing in the morning. The other thing that put me off a year back was all the hardware reviews on Apple.com; it's incredibly clear that batteries, cases, power supplies, mice etc. are the worst Chinese made sh**.

Anyhow now I've fully switched over to using the Mac (the newer MBP with UI gesture and the best spec they had - 4 gig ram etc), I'd offer the following advice:

a) If your a light computer user, just read the Web, type the odd Word document, email etc. then a Windows machine will be a lot cheaper and you will not get much benefit by going Mac, i.e. buy a Dell

b) If your more of a hardcore user, run multiple apps, probably a knowledge based worker (or it goes without saying in the creativity business) then once your thru the pain barrier of switching you will find yourself more productive and be glad of the switch. So if productivity is a key issue to you, switch - you will be glad you did.

A caveat to be added to b) is that you may notice some lack of program availability. You can't get MS Access which is a great low user database. You can't get anything for note taking as good as MS OneNote. And you can't rip DVDs as successfully with Mac software, plus there is not burning software as good as Nero. BUT the wicked thing is you can still run these apps in Parallels or VMware (I use the former and it hangs up quite a bit), so you still have Windows. Additionally the equivalent of Explorer, Finder sucks. And there is nothing that touches the 3rd party file manager - DOPUS on the PC. Finally there is no file/folder comparison utility on the Mac that matches Beyond Compare.

it would be nice if the diehard Mac aficionados would sometimes just state the obvious instead of taking an almost politician's path and spinning it.
Yes - this was the point of posting, the amazing denial that goes on and the double standards. It seems that pre-Leopard was solid but Leopard is not. in fact reality states this is true! It's more stable etc. than XP, but then again XP is 7 years old!

Also your still on 10.5.2 apparently. 10.5.3 is out, get that, it will improve your system a lot

I thought of that the other day and Googled around it, but too many people were bitching that it caused them more problems, so I've left it for now.

Also user g4dp posted to this thread stating
I'm having the same trouble since 10.5.3. Quiting applications doesn't alway work and neither does force quiting. You have to continually hit force quit, on the 4th or 5th time it decides to do it.

Take heart my fellow antivistanarian - it is better than most OS's......

Agree. Ubuntu seems more stable/faster but lack of apps, setup/hardware complexity issues mean it only is good for a more limited sector of people.

What is it that you're force quitting exactly, the finder or specific apps?

It seems to be random apps yesterday. It was either because it was a hot day and this thing is over heating (it gets super hot yet this CPU is meant to run cooler) or because it does not like Parallels running that much. Today is cooler and I've not been running Parallels, and only Firefox frooze so far today. Also yesterday one of the most annoying things was the machine turned mega slow, like I had to wait 30 minutes! I listed the processes and one called WindowsServ was eating up 92% CPU and I had to do a kill -9 on that.

In short I never knew the meaning of SPOD till I got a Mac. Not that I regret it - too many good things and the occurrence is less than XP by quite a bit. I just can't take more of reading "rock solid" whilst I hit Force Quite for the 5th time and consider removing the battery etc.
 
In your passion for trying to prove something...err...what ever it is...I think you might want to look up the definition of "advanced"...advanced does not mean perfect...it means ahead of the rest (of the competition). So yes, the the world's most advanced operating system still needs updates but it is still light years ahead of M$. But then again...so is linux, OS/2, BeOS...I think you get my point

And for the record, I have only ever had 1 kernel panic since using OS X and that was due to a faulty airport card...replaced the card...all was good...so, I would call OS X rock solid...mmm...yup, I would

I too have only had one kernel panic and my wife one on the six different OSX macs we have owned or used extensively.


I would actually EXPECT the most advanced OS to release MORE updates RATHER than the less because they are doing (or trying to do) something with their OS that maybe has not been done before. They certainly are not copying or reverse engineering their OS.
 
My 10.5.3 is working great! No issues what so ever. I am running an iMac 24". It seems to be (from what I read here) that most of the people having issues with their Macs are the most recent switchers, sometimes you have to wonder what Windows habits are they incorporating into Leopard?
 
Then you might be so kind as to define "light years ahead" as you so eloquently put it. My post above just said I or any other person can do anything OSX can do with any other OS... not just Windows, or a Linux distro (Linux isn't an OS, yanno, it's a kernel), OS/2 (kinda old, ain't it?), BeOS (kinda dead, ain't it?), etc...

If I (or someone else) can do whatever you can do, why is one any better than the other? "Better" or "Best" tends to be very subjective stuff... so I'm curious.
Linux isn't an OS....yawn...I've heard that before...and while you are technically correct when used while talking about OS's it would be considered a generic term for any collection of software that is built up around that particular kernel. Nit picking like this just shows that you are either A) Trolling or B) a Newbie trying to prove how smart they are (and failing), or C)both

As for the other OS's I mention...yes old and dead they may be, but still better than windows. 😀

And light years defined...in terms of this conversation...Posix compliance for starters...they have taked all the good that is unix and wrapped it in a consumer friendly package.

Sure you can do the same work in both OSes, that is not the point...how effectively can you work. I can buid a house with nothing but a hammer and handsaw for tools (MS Windows), or I can use a multitude of power tools (OS X) and get the job done quicker...hehe or I can do a "barn raising" party and have the community do it for me (Linux..sorry had to through that one in there 😉 )
 
"universal" video cards

I bet this isn't an OS issue anyway, but if for some reason it is, I would love to see video cards move into the 21st century and leave behind mac/windows(pc) compatibility.

I'm guessing it's more of a firmware issue from the card manufacturer, but now that apple has moved to intel, is there ANY way that we can see video cards move in the direction of say the hard drive where a drive is a drive is a drive?

Mac video cards are insanely expensive and it's a shame as video card upgrades are the easiest/fastest way to give your system a bump in the pants.

Again, could this be implemented via OS improvements/features?
 
Linux isn't an OS....yawn...I've heard that before...and while you are technically correct

I disagree. An operating system is just the bare essentials needed to use a computer. The Linux kernel provides some of those basic functions. If you add the shell on top then you have an operating system (perhaps you have one without as the computer is still able to compute and is thus able to be operated).
 
I recently converted because I have had many problems with my PCs in the last several years and I couldn't be happier. I find that Leopard's features make me far more productive. I had a few little niggles with 10.5.2, but .3 fixed all of them. I have had some problems in the past but 90% of them were from crappy third party software (parallels).

I disagree. An operating system is just the bare essentials needed to use a computer. The Linux kernel provides some of those basic functions. If you add the shell on top then you have an operating system (perhaps you have one without as the computer is still able to compute and is thus able to be operated).
In that case Vista is not an OS.
 
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