Beats Studio Pro Debut With Improved Sound Quality, Spatial Audio, USB-C, and More

[filmgirl]

The lack of the Apple chip makes me sad. I love my Sony XM4s for flying and I wear my AirPods Max around the house (and my AirPods Pro Gen 2 when I'm out and about) and in the office (unless I'm using wired headphones, which are usually Sony MDR-7506s) as sort of my "day" headphones -- but the battery life is terrible and I detest the case and I would gladly prefer to use the Beats Studio Pros. But I'm so addicted to the instant-device switch feature, I don't think I can do it.

What a bummer. I understand they don't want to mess up their cross-platform demo, but damn, device-switching is the one feature that actually makes me use my APMs, headphones that were absolutely not worth $550.

 

[RedWeasel]

Why is Apple so against 24/96 support? Millions of young Apple users / adults have the hearing, give us (and them) this basic standard in high-resolution audio.

Most people are not even able to reliably tell AAC apart from lossless in blind tests.

Is your audio system really ready for lossless?

Do an ABX test in your browser, and see if you can tell the difference between lossless and lossy audio

abx.digitalfeed.net

Hi-Res Audio is primarily a gimmick by the consumer audio industry to sell new products.

 

[zapmymac]

Most people are not even able to reliably tell AAC apart from lossless in blind tests.

Is your audio system really ready for lossless?

Do an ABX test in your browser, and see if you can tell the difference between lossless and lossy audio

abx.digitalfeed.net

Hi-Res Audio is primarily a gimmick by the consumer audio industry to sell new products.

…qualified by saying young adults. we all know about the debate.

 

[zapmymac]

My 20-year old couldn't care less about lossless or 24/96. She actually cares ZERO. I would say that the average age of an audiophile is well into their 30's, at a point in their lives where they can afford the equipment to reproduce it.

My question is -- does a $300 pair of headphones reproduce lossless music accurately enough to make a difference?

At 16, I cared about audio quality. Needle quality, unwarped records, cassette heads regularly cleaned. 43 million young adults in USA alone right now.

The hardware is another important part of the equation for sure.

Apple is supposed to be top of the line, cutting edge, they are the only one that thinks 24/48 is high resolution; but that is another great debate. Just seems odd that you can have 24/192 in AM but they send you to a third-party to buy a proper DAC. Seems odd for a company that vertically aligned in my opinion.

 

[deevey]

So if these come with "lossless" support than that means that the new generation of Apple Airpods Max 2 might come with "lossless" support as well

The equivalent of a 1080p television "supporting" a 4k input.

Apple is supposed to be top of the line, cutting edge, they are the only one that thinks 24/48 is high resolution; but that is another great debate. Just seems odd that you can have 24/192 in AM but they send you to a third-party to buy a proper DAC. Seems odd for a company that vertically aligned in my opinion.

Which still wont give you actual 24/192 as they only have a 24/48 ADC on the other end of the cable.

My question is -- does a $300 pair of headphones reproduce lossless music accurately enough to make a difference?

Can you hear the difference in a $300 pair of headphones? Depends on the headphones. My ye olde' Sony V6's and Amperiors are transparent as hell with a decent source. So Lossless (16/44) vs Lossy, sure.

If you mean 24/48 vs high res lossless, not a chance. They are already processing audio to hell, what with ANC and whatever other DSP shenanigans are happening on the ears, which, lets be fair is really the selling point on a pair of headphones like this in the first place.

They aren't reference headphones, they are designed so the majority of people in the world have a pleasant listening experience.

Does the analog input require power on these or can they be used when powered off with a jack?

 

[Student of Life]

I completely regret my APM, either they are defective or I am just so underwhelmed by them, no wow factor at all. Had these Beats been out at the time I would have most likely gone for them.

 

[svish]

Would have liked to see more colour options

 

[RedWeasel]

Can you hear the difference in a $300 pair of headphones? Depends on the headphones. My ye olde' Sony V6's and Amperiors are transparent as hell with a decent source. So Lossless (16/44) vs Lossy, sure.

Lossless CD quality vs 256 kpbs AAC? I would be very interested to see your test results with a Sony V6

Is your audio system really ready for lossless?

Do an ABX test in your browser, and see if you can tell the difference between lossless and iTunes-compression quality audio

abx.digitalfeed.net

 

[RedWeasel]

…qualified by saying young adults. we all know about the debate.

The effects of MDCT (the technology used by AAC) compression are not necessarily related to what you can and cannot hear due to age-related hearing loss. So I don't really see that age is an important factor here.

Also, most young adults listen to music that has its dynamics smashed so badly that you wouldn't even need 16 bits to properly reproduce it

 

[iSayuSay]

Damn, everything is fine except for that "iconic design" needs facelift. It's all lame, creaky plastic with outdated shapes. And also no H2 chip, for $349? Come on! Highway robbery is what it is!!

 

[EntropyQ3]

My 20-year old couldn't care less about lossless or 24/96. She actually cares ZERO. I would say that the average age of an audiophile is well into their 30's, at a point in their lives where they can afford the equipment to reproduce it.

My question is -- does a $300 pair of headphones reproduce lossless music accurately enough to make a difference?

Arguably lossy distribution to end consumer is completely transparent audibly. (Unless botched somehow - but that goes for everything.)

Apple previously quite correctly argued that it was pointless, but didn’t then take into account the marketing angle and the psychological weight of the words used. Lossless and lossy refer to data representation, not audibility, but that isn’t obvious from the words themselves. Which is used to manipulate consumers. Easily done with something so inherently subjective as audio perception.

Apple markets itself as a premium brand, so when competitors use the word lossy to imply that Apple provides something sub par, they pretty much have to respond, regardless of their actual position on the matter.

 

[GarethR]

Flabbergasted these don't have an Apple chip since the last ones did.

Flabbergasted everyone believes this. It’s a branding exercise. Beats won’t and don’t have the capability to develop their own SoC so I’ll wager it’ll be the exact same Apple designed SoC just with some select features disabled. Pretty much everything the H1/H2 offers these do too such as iCloud integration and FindMy support. Other than the automatic device switching and possibly Atmos support not sure what these are actually lacking over a branded H1/H2

 

[NewUsername]

The previous generation was great except for the terrible build quality, screws kept falling out etc. Think I’ll wait for the new APM.

 

[zapmymac]

The effects of MDCT (the technology used by AAC) compression are not necessarily related to what you can and cannot hear due to age-related hearing loss. So I don't really see that age is an important factor here.

Also, most young adults listen to music that has its dynamics smashed so badly that you wouldn't even need 16 bits to properly reproduce it

Sadly. But we should be pushing tech forward to be the best it can be sonic or cellular, or graphically. We are finally seeing re-mastering done with care by professionals who have been given free-reign to re-do and fix those mistakes. No reason not to start people young IF they are inclined to listen to music. No better time. Look at the new vinyls, better quality control, new hardware to make better records, all this is good.

 

[zapmymac]

At the end of the day I would like to hear sonically how the masters were meant to be heard. I’d like the option to hear a recording not compressed or flattened. The range and all that “stuff” to be there; if you don’t want it, let there be a toggle for those that don’t give a ****.

If it is mastered with ATMOS, give me that option as well.

I find it hard to believe that with the invention of aac 256, that’s it. There is nothing better that a young adults ear can’t hear or enjoy.

That Apple should not design a better DAC/amp is ridiculous. My Denon receiver sounds better than my iPhone with the same headphones. Don’t rest on your laurels Apple, keep innovating and give us better sound quality.


At least let us tune each iPhone to our particular hearing.

Like we NEEED Titanium in our next iPhone, please 🙄

 

[RedWeasel]

At the end of the day I would like to hear sonically how the masters were meant to be heard. I’d like the option to hear a recording not compressed or flattened. The range and all that “stuff” to be there; if you don’t want it, let there be a toggle for those that don’t give a ****.

There's the "Apple Digital Masters" (previously "Mastered for iTunes") program which is basically that.

Apple also has guidelines and tools to ensure encoding produces as little artifacts as possible:

https://www.apple.com/apple-music/apple-digital-masters/docs/apple-digital-masters.pdf

Also, every mastering engineer worth his or her salt will check masters for digital delivery with common codecs. There's even dedicated software for this, for example:

Fraunhofer Pro-Codec | Audition Codecs In Real-Time | Sonnox

Real-time comparison of up to 5 simultaneously encoding streams, including AAC, mp3 pro and Apple’s iTunes+. Full metadata editing and batch processing. Major codecs and file formats supported to create media files

www.sonnox.com

Usually, in mastering you will produce different deliverables for different media. A CD release (for those who still do them) will need to be 16 bit and 44.1 kHz, vinyl has its own restrictions, especially in the lower frequencies, and so on.

So there won't be "the" master, there will be multiple masters, taking into account the limits of their respective medium. All that is part of mastering. What you hear is already how the masters are meant to be heard, in a way.

I find it hard to believe that with the invention of aac 256, that’s it. There is nothing better that a young adults ear can’t hear or enjoy.

There is ALAC and FLAC. But as said, most people, young and old, will neither have the equipment nor the listening experience to hear a difference. The thing is more that bandwidth and storage is so cheap nowadays, that data compression doesn't matter as much as it did like 10 or 20 years ago.

At least let us tune each iPhone to our particular hearing.

You can actually use an audiogram in headphone accomodations.

Customize headphone audio levels on your iPhone or iPad - Apple Support

Amplify soft sounds and tune audio for your hearing needs.

support.apple.com

You can either enter an audiogram manually or generate it on the phone with apps like Mimi hearing test.

 

[Zest28]

So if these come with "lossless" support than that means that the new generation of Apple Airpods Max 2 might come with "lossless" support as well

But has to be paired with the new iPhone 15 Pro Max with USB-C port.

 

[cygy2k]

Flabbergasted everyone believes this. It’s a branding exercise. Beats won’t and don’t have the capability to develop their own SoC so I’ll wager it’ll be the exact same Apple designed SoC just with some select features disabled. Pretty much everything the H1/H2 offers these do too such as iCloud integration and FindMy support. Other than the automatic device switching and possibly Atmos support not sure what these are actually lacking over a branded H1/H2

Exactly this. Apple still designed the chip, it's just not the exact chip they use in the APP2 (H2). It still has everything but the multipoint on iOS (which could be a software limitation, feature added later).

You still get spatial audio which is the huge factor when pairing with an AppleTV where non Apple/Beats headphones are simply in stereo. I'll use these every night watching tv/movies with great sound even if the XM5, Q45, etc may seem just as good. In this scenario, those are just stereo speakers so nonstarters.

 

[davidf18]

And your thinking is that street thieves, who are for the most part, NOT blind, would NOT notice that there’s a decent number of headphones in the public that DON’T have Bose, Beats or Sony logos on them and would go “I suppose Apple just stopped making headphones!!”?

Smart people know how NOT to be targets, they don’t wear them in public. Those that do wear them in public, may eventually LEARN not to wear them in public.

Additionally, legally, name brand products can’t look too much like another product. Which is why, even without the logos it’s easy to tell a Sony from a Beats from a Bose, it’s by design. As a result, any Airpod Max’s that were different enough to NOT be sued would also be different enough to tell from every other set of headphones out there. In the end, the only way they could be less “steal-able” is if they were NOT $599.

Street thieves go after the $600 market Apple products which have high resale value. They can't tell quickly whether other headphones which look very similar are $60 or $300, but they certainly know the Apple AirPod Max. Those are the ones that thieves are steeling.

The Airpods Max also are too heavy on the head.

 

[deevey]

Lossless CD quality vs 256 kpbs AAC? I would be very interested to see your test results with a Sony V6

Is your audio system really ready for lossless?

Do an ABX test in your browser, and see if you can tell the difference between lossless and iTunes-compression quality audio

abx.digitalfeed.net

I did it ages ago (probably on the original APM thread)

Results (from a year or so time ago): On the Daft Punk track (which I know extremely well) 10/10 … I could pick up subtle differences in the mid bass distortion and high synths range. The other tracks I’ve barely, if ever heard them in my life before and at best was 50/50 - no more than a guessing game.

I've said it before, but unless you are familiar with the original material it's not an accurate test IMHO, the snippets of one section of a track may not show up what that other parts of a track will, and knowing a track inside out beforehand is key to a genuine result.

I have no issue with lossy formats, unless it’s one of the badly encoded Spotify rips. It's 99.9% of music I listen to now is lossy, head and shoulders over 99% of crappy music quality I listened to 20 years ago on FM radio.

The only time lossless would ever make any real difference to my enjoyment of the music, is on a very select number of tracks, on a great sound system, in a great room, neither of which I (and the majority of consumers) have anyhow. So just enjoy the music.

 

[wtc30]

I was considering these yesterday until I got on the Sonoma beta. Now, automatic airpods switching works on my mac too - it never did before. I appreciate that feature enough that I'm reluctant to buy new headphones without it.

 

[RedWeasel]

I've said it before, but unless you are familiar with the original material it's not an accurate test IMHO, the snippets of one section of a track may not show up what that other parts of a track will, and knowing a track inside out beforehand is key to a genuine result.

I think this is exactly why it is an accurate test. I‘m not saying there is no difference at all, there can be artifacts. But you need to know what to listen for and you probably also need to have some experience in critical listening.

Which, in my opinion, is exactly why having lossless is not important in a consumer lifestyle device.

Take Sony’s approach for example. They market their headphones with LDAC. Great, so now you have a „pristine“ lossless or close to lossless signal via Bluetooth. But then they heavily process that signal with ANC, DSEE, EQ and what have you. So what’s the point of the lossless signal in the first place?

Same thing with AirPods. With all that Adaptive EQ etc., having a lossless source is pretty pointless.

 

[Student of Life]

Remember this is priced at 350, so come Black Friday it could be in the 250 to 270 range. The APM are priced at 550 and the typical sale is in the 450 to 470 range.

 

[Phuz01]

No Apple chip, and it looks like the ear cups are glued on and not replaceable. I'll sit this one out, even though most of my digital music collection is now lossless.

 

[Orkstomper]

You can actually use an audiogram in headphone accomodations

But can you?
I can’t see any reference to these being supported for Headphone Accommodations on either the Beats or Apple websites.
No H series chip = no go for this feature?
Been holding out on purchasing and this is my sole must have requirement.