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Behind the iPhone and Apple/Cingular Deal
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I used Vericrap for years, and switched recently to Cingular. I couldn't stand Verizon's bs policy on crippling the bluetooth OBEX feature on all their phones in order to force customers to pay for services such as Get It Now, when Cingular and T-Mobile allow customers full access to all their phones' features (Vericrap was sued over crippling the bluetooth on the Motorola v710 and lost big time, but still refused to enable it on future phones as they admitted it's their right and business to do so). More over, Vericrap kept messing up my bill by not adjusting my plans when I phoned to increase my minutes or text messaging allowment, charging me $400-500/month in fees that should have been remedied.
I considered T-Mobile, as they have the cheapest plans, but then realized my friends who use T-Mobile, here in NY, California and Florida, had always dropped my calls when speaking to them from my Vericrap phone. So I switched to Cingular, LOVE IT. Have never dropped a call, my plan is GREAT, roll-over minutes allow me to have a cheaper monthly plan, calls are crystal clear, GSM allows me to use the phone when I'm overseas, customer service was PHENOMENAL. Representatives actually treat you with respect and courtesy (a refreshing change from most of America's big business "we don't care about you" corporations). I can make my own ringtone's and download them to my RAZR and am also able to send and recieve my own pictures for FREE.
As an aside, a lot of people have complained about Cingular's EDGE network. Personally, EDGE is improving with faster HSDPA rates over Vericrap's EV-DO network very quickly. I researched this a great deal with both companies. My only concern is iPhone's lack of 3G, especially given the phone's heavy need for bandwidth as Safari is a fully enabled browser requiring fast download rates for multimedia information. A LOT of people have noted that downfall with the iPhone, that is was EXTREMELY SLOW. I certainly hope this is corrected, as one of the most important features of the phone is it's multimedia web browsing capabilities.
Cingular has exclusive rights to the iPhone for 5 YEARS. At first, the media were given the impression it would only be two, which was quickly corrected in later reports that Cingular has a 5 year contract with Cingular.
"Best phone ever" is subjective!
Thank God other phone manufacturers don't try tricks like this - we'd be paying much higher prices than we do now!
From all those conditions, Cingular took it from Apple, begging!
I'm wondering what Apple will do in other countries where locking of phones is illegal?
not related
sorry not related to the subject but some one put up thread,new mac pro rumor at http://www.looprumors.com/article.php?new-mac-pro-redesign,762623722
sorry not related to the subject but some one put up thread,new mac pro rumor at http://www.looprumors.com/article.php?new-mac-pro-redesign,762623722
It reminds me of the true story of candy-maker Mars., Inc turning down the chance to have M&Ms be the candy in E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial, so Reese's Pieces got the deal instead.
However, I doubt Cingular is going to get rich from this deal. It could turn into a successful part of their business, but it won't cause a huge jump in customers as the sci-fi movie did for Reese's.
This was posted last week on Page 2:
https://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/14/report-mac-pro-to-be-redesigned/
direct your conversation to that thread (125 replies)
arn
So you think Apple shouldn't have gotten the best deal they could have? All this talk about 'greed' makes no sense at all. It is a business deal. Each got what they thought was fair. No one was forced to do anything.
And why shouldn't Apple get a cut of the monthly fees if they help grow Cingular's customer base???
The iPhone users will most likely buy the higher-end plans from Cingular, so the typical iPhone customer will be worth multiples of your average phone customer. The iPhone is expensive but if you get a high-volume plan and add a data plan, the service contract could be worth $2000 over two years ($80 a month). And if these customers end up staying with Cingular for 4-5 years, which is not unreasonable given the low "churn rate" (2-3%) in cellular service, signing a new iPhone customer could be worth $4000-5000 for Cingular.
All people focus on is the $499 price tag but don't think about the larger implications of this deal. If Apple-Cingular sells 4 million iPhones a year in the US, that's $4 billion worth of service per year for Cingular. From the iPhone alone. Apple would be absolutely crazy to not try to get a cut of this.
If my math is anywhere close, Cingular is gonna make a killing.
Screw the iPhone. I'm sorry but while this may sell new subscriptions there will be new touchscreen phones out in short order that don't tie you to the most craptacular carrier in North America.
People need to get this through their heads. This is not the same as the iPod. The iPod anyone could pick up and use. This requires you to sign a 2 year contact with Cingular. That is a steep requirement IMHO. How well do you think the iPod would have done if Apple had required that any songs purchased for it had to be done through the iTMS for the next 12 month? A better example was how well did the iPod do when it was Mac only? It only really burst out onto the scene when it supported the PC. Parrallels would be Cingular vs..the entire industry.
This is the first time I've been impressed with Verizon. They actually showed that they own a set and said no to Jobs. It sounds like Jobs is trying to make Cingular turn their head and cough and they are succeeding. The only thing good I'm seeing come out of the iPhone is shaking up the phone market. Which had stagnated for year. That being said there are several iPhone type phones that were announced prior to the iPhone debuting in Jan. The LG phone in particular is interesting. Honestly though I'm not sure why people are so hyped up about the iPhone. Apple has issues with just a new revision of a device. It scares the crap out of me to think what could potentially be wrong with a device Apple has ZERO experience with.
Thanks but I’m not a Guinea pig. I want a PHONE. Not a fashion statement.
And yes I'm being very hostel about this. I'm sorry but I use my phone for work. I don't care about bells and whistles. I don't care about a pretty device. I want a tool. I'm seeing too many device manufacturers turn their devices into fashion statements all in the name of attracting the younger crowd, and I think the iPhone is simply going to accelerate this trend further.
Cingular shouldn't have taken it up the arse, begging.
You could argue the same case for ANY exclusive phone.
It that case - why shouldn't RIAA take a profit of iPod sales because the iPod helps grow digital music sales, and thus, grow the digital music market?
In fact, there was a discussion on the exact topic, and from what I remember, everyone was pretty much against the idea!
Oh, because its Apple.
You could argue the same case for ANY exclusive phone.
It that case - why shouldn't RIAA take a profit of iPod sales because the iPod helps grow digital music sales, and thus, grow the digital music market?
In fact, there was a discussion on the exact topic, and from what I remember, everyone was pretty much against the idea!
Oh, because its Apple.
1. If Cingular is taking it up the arse, it's out of their own choice. Fault Cingular for bad business sense, but don't fault Apple for asking for more... and getting it.
3. Every phone manufacturer is free to get a better deal; it's b/c of their own ineptitude that they haven't. In fact, manufacturers like Samsung are probably thanking Apple because the Cingular deal opens the door for others to get similar deals. For all we know, Apple may be starting a new trend here. But of course, there are very few companies in the consumer products market that has clout and leverage like Apple.
2. You're getting it backwards. iPhone (hardware) adds more subscribers to Cingular (service). If we extend this argument to music and say iPods help grow the digital music service, then it is Apple who should be getting a cut of the music sales. In fact they do, through the iTunes Store.
4. Who was against the idea of Apple taking a cut of the service contracts? I don't think it's ever really come up. The questions have always been Should Apple become a MVNO? or Should Apple sell unlocked phones?
If the iPhone becomes a hit, this is a really really big deal. The repercussions will be far greater than with digital music.
unless apple refunds the money they cut from cingular, otherwise, who do I care if they did? dog fights dog, as an end user, it means nothing for me.
Nope, I don't think so.
I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.
People are over rating the iPhone.
I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.
People are over rating the iPhone.
The only thing I know is that I wish Apple did not have introduce the iPhone at MWSF. It's just getting old this whole thing. June is dam so far away and I think Apple is losing sales because the more people wait, tired they get.
I understand Apple had to introduce it at MWSF because the stock market, but I wished otherwise.
I hope Apple could give us more info about iPhone and have AT&T present their service plans cost etc. so consumers can make their minds soon and people on the fence like me get excite about getting the iPhone or just forget about it.
Like I said, this whole thing is getting old and tiring.
I understand Apple had to introduce it at MWSF because the stock market, but I wished otherwise.
I hope Apple could give us more info about iPhone and have AT&T present their service plans cost etc. so consumers can make their minds soon and people on the fence like me get excite about getting the iPhone or just forget about it.
Like I said, this whole thing is getting old and tiring.
I agree with you, when hype is over, ppl will see it more critically, but hey, thats good for customers, doesn't it? carefully check it, rather than buy it with hype.
Also, this shows how hard and difficult to balance all the factors when entering a new market.
What are you - some kind of socialist?? We live in a capitalistic system. It is in Apple's best interest and in fact, Apple's feduciary duty, to negotiate the very best financial terms for it's employees and shareholders. Both companies negotiated and figured out what was best for each, and the total synergy of the venture.
Greed?!! Good gosh!
lol, being apple's best interest doesn't mean its not greed, same goes for cingular, every greed company has a reason to be so, aren't they?
I'm not.
I have a phone that can do almost all that the iPhone can do, plus more on top.
Naw It's Not That...
Nope.... I actually love Palm... I wish their UI/OS was improved over the 7 year old interface (that is very effective but MAN IS IT OLD... hasn't changed much from my Palm VIIe ) that is starting to show its age. I think the Treo is one of the better smartphones. I know people are going to scream and shout about that fat and wide Blackberries and Blackjacks and Black(place word here)s but the Treo is the best of size and functionality. The only thing I don't like about them is their small screens, but I can get over that.
Don't reall hate Cingular, haven't used their service. I guess I am just whining cuz I can't afford to switch and since I can't switch I am stuck with what I can get. The "what I can get" is a great option though. But it doesn't come close to the iPhone. When I sync my computer with my Treo all of my calendar entries will come in with no category, so I will have to go through and categorize my entire year. All of my contacts will do the same, and as stated before the UI is just OLD. The iPod UI is getting their as well. I hope that Apple places the iPhone UI into an iPod (full sized of course) so it would really blow the market away.
As for Palm... I hope they just upgrade their OS/UI before I get my Treo. (which will be for a while since my G5's logic board got fried ) WTF man!
so ur hate for cingular+palm surpassed ur love for iPhone? sorry, its just a calculation apple need to think when they made the deal, and trust me, apple got as much as they can from this deal.
Think about it, If you can't buy iPhone for whatever reason, Im sure then you actually belong to the part of users apple already planed to give up.
Nope.... I actually love Palm... I wish their UI/OS was improved over the 7 year old interface (that is very effective but MAN IS IT OLD... hasn't changed much from my Palm VIIe
) that is starting to show its age. I think the Treo is one of the better smartphones. I know people are going to scream and shout about that fat and wide Blackberries and Blackjacks and Black(place word here)s but the Treo is the best of size and functionality. The only thing I don't like about them is their small screens, but I can get over that.Don't reall hate Cingular, haven't used their service. I guess I am just whining cuz I can't afford to switch and since I can't switch I am stuck with what I can get. The "what I can get" is a great option though. But it doesn't come close to the iPhone. When I sync my computer with my Treo all of my calendar entries will come in with no category, so I will have to go through and categorize my entire year. All of my contacts will do the same, and as stated before the UI is just OLD. The iPod UI is getting their as well. I hope that Apple places the iPhone UI into an iPod (full sized of course) so it would really blow the market away.
As for Palm... I hope they just upgrade their OS/UI before I get my Treo. (which will be for a while since my G5's logic board got fried
) WTF man!
Sure they did or else it would show up on FCC paperwork and they had to show it to their partners so they could finish it. They knew it would leak otherwise so let them show it when they choose instead of forcing to show it when they don't.
The Motorola RAZR was shown to the public 9 months before it was available for purchase. Most phones are like that. What else is new?
Be careful. Your post exudes ignorance. It has nothing to do with greed. It has to do with good business. People are going to move to Cingular just to use the iPhone in numbers previously unseen. It's nothing like the RIAA, nothing whatsoever. The parallel would be that the RIAA should get a cut because the RIAA is drawing people to the artists. It's quite the opposite, in fact. The RIAA contributes nothing useful to the artists. The RIAA leeches off artists, not the other way around.
May be good business *for Apple*, but not for the customer: Having to pay full price for a locked phone.
I disagree with 'its nothing like the RIAA'. Once more:
- RIAA wants a cut of iPod profits
- Apple want a cut of Cingular iPhone subscriber revenue
Of course, we'll go around in circles in this discussion until the cows come home M0000ooooOOOOOO and still end up disagreeing with each other
rohitp -> nothing wrong with socialism ( socialism != communism ). On the list of top countries in the world to live - the majority of them are socialist ( but this is so far off topic ).
I disagree with 'its nothing like the RIAA'. Once more:
- RIAA wants a cut of iPod profits
- Apple want a cut of Cingular iPhone subscriber revenue
Of course, we'll go around in circles in this discussion until the cows come home M0000ooooOOOOOO and still end up disagreeing with each other
rohitp -> nothing wrong with socialism ( socialism != communism ). On the list of top countries in the world to live - the majority of them are socialist ( but this is so far off topic ).
EDGE vs 3G
I have a technical question maybe someone can clarify. The complaint is that it is not 3G compliant and to use EDGE service would provide slow transfer rates or whatever the complaint is about EDGE over 3G. Now my question, what is the 3G technology versus EDGE. Could this technology already be built into the iPhone and activated at a later date? Remember during the keynote when Steve talked about some new great feature you invent for the phone, what are the other "smartphones" going to do? Add another button? The phones are already in the hands of their customers. Whereas the iPhone could probably have a "software update" and bam - you start up your iPhone and there is a new button for new service or whatever. But would 3G over EDGE fall into this scenario? Please advise.
As an aside, a lot of people have complained about Cingular's EDGE network. Personally, EDGE is improving with faster HSDPA rates over Vericrap's EV-DO network very quickly. I researched this a great deal with both companies. My only concern is iPhone's lack of 3G, especially given the phone's heavy need for bandwidth as Safari is a fully enabled browser requiring fast download rates for multimedia information. A LOT of people have noted that downfall with the iPhone, that is was EXTREMELY SLOW. I certainly hope this is corrected, as one of the most important features of the phone is it's multimedia web browsing capabilities.
I have a technical question maybe someone can clarify. The complaint is that it is not 3G compliant and to use EDGE service would provide slow transfer rates or whatever the complaint is about EDGE over 3G. Now my question, what is the 3G technology versus EDGE. Could this technology already be built into the iPhone and activated at a later date? Remember during the keynote when Steve talked about some new great feature you invent for the phone, what are the other "smartphones" going to do? Add another button? The phones are already in the hands of their customers. Whereas the iPhone could probably have a "software update" and bam - you start up your iPhone and there is a new button for new service or whatever. But would 3G over EDGE fall into this scenario? Please advise.
Cingular
I'll be switching from T-Mobile to Cingular once the iPhone is released.
The $200 early cancellation fee will easily be absorbed by Cingular's 1.5 yrs of free service, plus use of roll-over minutes which support a lower minute plan overall. The iPhone will very likely be a boon for Cingular, drawing
hundreds, if not thousands of new customers who would not have considered joining otherwise.
I'll be switching from T-Mobile to Cingular once the iPhone is released.
The $200 early cancellation fee will easily be absorbed by Cingular's 1.5 yrs of free service, plus use of roll-over minutes which support a lower minute plan overall. The iPhone will very likely be a boon for Cingular, drawing
hundreds, if not thousands of new customers who would not have considered joining otherwise.