Belkin Puts HomeKit Compatibility Plans for WeMo Product Line 'On Hold'

[WilliamG]

Other than the Siri part, I have had all the same automation for a number of decades now. I started with X10 in the late 70s and switched over to Insteon a few years ago. Being a developer as well, I have now also have the same options on both Apple Watch and iPhone via either manual control or Siri. HomeKit is not used at all.

Motion detectors handle lights in low use areas like stairs and kitchen/entry/porch. Most lights go on/off automatically based on sunset/sunrise. Doors lock when I leave and unlock when i return, fully automatic based on GPS. Siri override is also available from watch or phone for selected on/off/lock/dim operations.

I would have preferred to use HomeKit, but I believe Apple choose poorly in their approach.

Other than the Siri part? Unless it's convenient, I'm not interested. It's the same thing when FaceTime came out. FaceTime? I've had video chat for YEARS before then blah blah. Who cares? As far as I'm concerned, and most people are concerned, video chat only really became easy and convenient when Apple did it. Same thing with HomeKit. Yes, it needs more support, but what's there works, and works in 60 seconds of setup process. And yes, geo-based lights etc is all there with the Lutron/HomeKit setup, too.

Also the Lutron stuff integrates with my Nests beautifully, turning on all lights, shutting off the gas etc if the CO detectors go off.

 

[Karma*Police]

In another year, if nothing changes from what we have seen this past year, Amazon and the Echo will have taken the market that Apple should have taken. Unlike Homekit, the Echo works with existing products and is for the most part able to adapt to any standard. It should be noted that all of that Wemo gear already works with the Echo. Along with Hue, The Wink hub and its products, The Smartthings Hub and its products, Nest Products and seemingly some new thing monthly. Apple had better do something lest they are left standing at the starting line.

You may be right, but I just find it crazy that anyone would buy, let alone, trust Amazon with their privacy and security of their homes. After all, this is the company that recently removed encryption from all their devices.

An always on, listening device from Amazon in the home that controls home appliances and locks? That's just asking for trouble if you ask me.

 

[tx4app]

That sucks. I'm using the Lutron product line and love it. Just wish they included additional devices like fan control. Every home has lights, and I'm pretty sure most have ceiling fans. Not sure why they don't include controls for that.

I was leaning toward buying the Lutron Caseta bridge and switches but read many negative reviews citing firmware update problems and a dependency on the HomeKit hardware needing (and often) to communicate with Lutron servers. Really dissuaded me from pulling the trigger.

 

[Ed217]

Other than the Siri part? Unless it's convenient, I'm not interested. It's the same thing when FaceTime came out. FaceTime? I've had video chat for YEARS before then blah blah. Who cares? As far as I'm concerned, and most people are concerned, video chat only really became easy and convenient when Apple did it. Same thing with HomeKit. Yes, it needs more support, but what's there works, and works in 60 seconds of setup process.

Read it again. I can use Siri with my gear as well. The best approach however is systems that are effectively automatic. Ones that do most of what you normally want with ZERO action on the users part. Lights come on and go off automatically. Motion sensor handles low use light areas. Doors lock and unlock with NO user interaction. I can still override when needed, either manually using a watch or iPhone or PC, or Siri.

The reason FaceTime worked well is that it brought each tech directly to the users hands and their phone. They didnt have to move into the room where the PC was located. It was built totally into the phone and no devices have to be mounted anywhere for it to work. However even then FT took as while as it was iPhone exclusive. If the other end didnt have Apple, it was a zero. Even today half the FT calls I get fail and have to be redone via normal audio only.

The issue I have with HomeKit is that its replacement technology rather than additive. Most existing gear doesnt work with it at all, one has to mostly start over. That is a significant limitation.

VCRs and CD players are good examples of additive tech. It was easy to add them to existing systems and begin use right away. HD tvs was a slower process, as it involved lack of content as well as hundreds of millions of existing sets that were not suitable.

 

[friedmud]

You can use it (Amazon Echo) for voice control in one room of your HA devices. I control everything with mine and it works quite well.

Fixed that for you.

I even have a small house... but I don't want to yell from my bedroom at my Amazon Echo in the living room.

My whole house runs on Homekit and it's awesome. "Hey Siri, Goodnight" whispered to my phone sitting on its charge dock on my nightstand turns off all of the lights in the house, turns on the fan in my bedroom (for white noise) and sets the thermostat to 68 degrees (wife likes it cold for sleeping).

I don't know why everyone complains about Homekit all the time. More and more products are coming out with support all the time... and it works really well.

One thing I love about Homekit is the ability to "share" my house with guests. When my sister-in-law came for a visit a couple of months ago I just "shared" our home with her Apple ID and then she was immediately able to use _her_ iPhone to turn on and off the lights, etc. When she left, I just revoked her access to the house. Simple and powerful!

My wife was skeptical about the whole setup whenever I started buying it: "Why would I want to control stuff with my phone?". But now... she's a bigger user of it than I am. Once she got a 6S with always on "Hey Siri" she is _always_ telling Siri what to do with the lights/fan/etc.

 

[ChrisA]

If the quote in the article is correct and all HomeKit products do require some specific piece of Apple licensed hardware then HomeKit is dead. I and I assume most others will not build a house that has a closed architecture. OK some Apple fans might buy a few products but no one in the bissenis is going to outfit a house with parts that are not STANDARD and available from multiple vendors. Building tend to have very long lifetimes.

Seriously, would anyone buy a light socket if it only took Apple light bulbs? Apple has a reputation for discontinuing products or replacing them after a few years with incompatible products. That is OK if you are talking about a computer or phone that has a short lifetime. But a building? If I am building for a client I might install two dozen or more light switches and dozens of outlets and I'd want to know that replacement parts would be available 40 year later. Apple will NOT be selling compatible replacement parts in even 10 years. So, this is OK for a enthusiast to buy a few to play with but that's it.
[doublepost=1459659112][/doublepost]

... those security requirements set by Apple aren't there for nothing. Security is key when it comes to someone's home, since that is pretty much one's most private place. You wouldn't want to have exploitable flaws in your system that would allow hackers to watch your cams or control your appliances...

You are 100% correct BUT we can have very good, even unbreakable security with open encryption standards implemented in software. What Apple is trying to do is force everyone one Earth who makes light bulbs and doorbells to license some Apple hardware. Apple will fail. Unless they decide to make th standard "open" for all to use.

What is going to happen now is Google or whoever will come up with a competing standard and offer it for free and Apple will discontinue HomeKit and some time after that all your expensive HomeKit stuff will be useless.

These are fun toys for Apple fans but some company who is building an apartment complex is NOT going to use HomeKit devices. He is going to use whatever is the current industry wide standard.

 

[Weaselboy]

Fixed that for you.

I even have a small house... but I don't want to yell from my bedroom at my Amazon Echo in the living room.

My whole house runs on Homekit and it's awesome. "Hey Siri, Goodnight" whispered to my phone sitting on its charge dock on my nightstand turns off all of the lights in the house, turns on the fan in my bedroom (for white noise) and sets the thermostat to 68 degrees (wife likes it cold for sleeping).

You have the exact same issue with HomeKit. You need your iPhone with you or in the room to control anything... so how is that any different than using an Amazon Echo to do the same thing. Is everybody in the house supposed to carry around an iPhone. This is partly why I have not gone nuts with this HA gear and mostly kept it limited to the living room and one set of kitchen lights. At some point you have to ask yourself if it really is better to use HA rather than just flip a light switch when you walk into the bedroom.

 

[Aston441]

Yes, you would need to have the Echo somewhere it can hear you. I have it in the living room where it can hear me easily from that room and the kitchen, so it works pretty well. I like the Wemo light switch because it is still a regular manual switch anybody can just flip on without messing around with the Echo or an iPhone app.

I just don't like the idea of having to drag my phone out of my pocket and use it to turn in lights, so I have been trying to by products to work around that.

Amazon has the new Echo Dot that you can place in other rooms if you want more coverage. I don't really want to do that though. I think with some of this HA stuff you reach a point where you are doing things just because they can be done, and not so much because they are any better than what you had.

Also the microphone in the Echo is TWO orders of magnitude better than the cheap junk mics that Apple uses in all of their products.

So instead of screaming "HEY SIRI" and having it not work anyway, I can speak in a low soft voice from a different room to the Echo and it works perfectly. I would guess the cost of the mics in my iPhone 6s is about a dollar. The mics in the Echo probably about $50.

So Apple is going to have to poop or cut bait here. Are they going to start putting real microphones in their products, or get left in the dust by other companies that finally, after all these years, are starting to realize that a device should start with the mic, and everything else is built around that.

 

[ukpetey]

I'm usually an early adopter of anything tech and Apple. However I'm sitting and waiting for the home automation market to mature a little more before I dip my toes in. There's way too many competing 'standards' and products which claim to be compatible yet in practice appear not so. As others have commented, Apple could decide it's not working out with HomeKit and simply abandon it.

This happened to me recently with a home painting machine from Dulux which is great, but requires special paint. The manufacturer decides paint sales are too low and walks away. I'm left with loads of expensive and redundant kit.

Lesson learned ☑️



Edit: fixed typo

 

[dragje]

HomeKit is a feature that has so much potential, but is being neglected. I hope Apple will step up with iOS 10. My wish list:

• Home app that lists all the devices by room, showing their current status and toggle them.
• Ability to add new device WITHOUT using 3rd party apps. It should be similar to Apple Pay, which optionally prompts you to install app.
• Better voice recognition for HomeKit devices in Siri.
• Ability to use Apple Watch or iPhone as a proximity based trigger.
• Do Not Disturb setting to turn off/on certain HomeKit automatically, each with separate schedule.

So true! The good news tough, there are already lot's of Homekit enabled devices.

 

[ChromeAce]

Israeli security firm Cellebrite now claims it can assist Belkin to enable HomeKit compatibility immediately.

 

[rdlink]

I've got a single gang junction box which means I need a device that'll allow me to control both the fan and the lights. It would also need a low/medium/high buttons vs having to continually press a button to adjust the fan.

Hmm, okay. Well, I know that Hunter is making HomeKit enabled ceiling fans, and Insteon has a fan controller that will work if you're willing to buy their HomeKit enabled hub.

 

[friedmud]

You have the exact same issue with HomeKit. You need your iPhone with you or in the room to control anything... so how is that any different than using an Amazon Echo to do the same thing. Is everybody in the house supposed to carry around an iPhone. This is partly why I have not gone nuts with this HA gear and mostly kept it limited to the living room and one set of kitchen lights. At some point you have to ask yourself if it really is better to use HA rather than just flip a light switch when you walk into the bedroom.

Yes and no.

1. Most people do have their phone with them all the time ( or most of the time).
2. It's not only iPhones. I have my Apple Watch with me every minute of every day. Also, you can use any of the iPads that are already scattered around.
3. I have Hue Taps set up in each room. Some sort of physical switch is still necessary for "instant on" capability.
4. I use Logitech Home Hubs for all of my TVs. They all control my Hue lights automatically (like dimming them in Movie mode) and you can also control the lights and thermostat with the Logitech TV remote.

It's all about having many ways to get at your lights/fan/thermostat. No one wants to pull their phone every time they walk into a room... but your phone is DAMN handy when you're already sitting down or already in bed or your hands are covered in muck while cooking or a million other instances.

 

[DaveMcM76]

This is disappointing news as one of the reasons I went with WeMo was the promise of "imminent" (I know, never buy for a feature that doesn't currently exist!) Homekit compatibility, but while it would be nice to have official support it's not the end of the world as like many others have mentioned Homebridge running on my MacMini is filling the gap nicely...

 

[WilliamG]

Read it again. I can use Siri with my gear as well. The best approach however is systems that are effectively automatic. Ones that do most of what you normally want with ZERO action on the users part. Lights come on and go off automatically. Motion sensor handles low use light areas. Doors lock and unlock with NO user interaction. I can still override when needed, either manually using a watch or iPhone or PC, or Siri.

The reason FaceTime worked well is that it brought each tech directly to the users hands and their phone. They didnt have to move into the room where the PC was located. It was built totally into the phone and no devices have to be mounted anywhere for it to work. However even then FT took as while as it was iPhone exclusive. If the other end didnt have Apple, it was a zero. Even today half the FT calls I get fail and have to be redone via normal audio only.

The issue I have with HomeKit is that its replacement technology rather than additive. Most existing gear doesnt work with it at all, one has to mostly start over. That is a significant limitation.

VCRs and CD players are good examples of additive tech. It was easy to add them to existing systems and begin use right away. HD tvs was a slower process, as it involved lack of content as well as hundreds of millions of existing sets that were not suitable.

I read it fine, thanks. I'm saying that prior to Siri, I wouldn't have been interested. It's not the same as what you've been running for years. First, were you able to share all this with guests with a tap of a few options on your phone? Was it easy for the end-user to set up? The answer to those questions is no. At the end of the day - home automation isn't new, but setting it up simply in just a minute or two is.

As a sidenote, I simply trust Apple's security a lot more than a hobbled together setup.

 

[coolfactor]

I believe that Apple missed the mark entirely with HomeKit. At the time of initial release I dont think there was a single product on the face of the earth that it supported. I believe they would have been better to leave the security questions in the hands of the users rather than excluding the millions of devices already in place. I use Insteon products, which work well. I have zero plans to move anything to HomeKit because it trashes way too much.

I disagree. Security is absolutely important, and should not be an "add-on" down the road. In 10 years, our world will be "connected" in ways that we can't even fathom right now, and any vulnerabilities in the connected devices or the networks connecting them could have a serious negative impact on our lives. Do you really want your life ... your TV, your car, your fridge, your baby monitor...hacked because the products that you chose to use didn't have the correct security measures in place?

 

[Ed217]

I read it fine, thanks. I'm saying that prior to Siri, I wouldn't have been interested. It's not the same as what you've been running for years. First, were you able to share all this with guests with a tap of a few options on your phone? Was it easy for the end-user to set up? The answer to those questions is no. At the end of the day - home automation isn't new, but setting it up simply in just a minute or two is.

As a sidenote, I simply trust Apple's security a lot more than a hobbled together setup.

Generally agree. One difference is that I have been doing this stuff for 20+ years. I have sharing options as well, which work fine for what we need.

Setup is still tricky. It has been that way since the early 80s and still is. Very few people have any real HA today. I know of maybe 2 others. Neither use HomeKit.

No end user could ever setup Apple based HA in a minute or two. It generally takes a fairly long conversation to explain whats possible and what different pieces of hardware are needed. Then they got to find them, connect them all over the house, and then begin the process of software related things. Thats before they even consider things like schedules and defaults. An expert can do it quickly, but thats not most end users.

Today most folks dont even know its possible and have no clue of where to start., Its also pricey for most, which is a factor. It will become common in the future, but thats a few years away.

Apple has great security. But other vendors have security as well, which is more than good enough for most home setups. Its a little like most Wifi, break-ins are a user ID and password away.

HomeKit may end up being a good tool, but its not doing so well just yet. At least there are a few actual commercial hardware options today, which is different than most of last year.
[doublepost=1459709680][/doublepost]

I disagree. Security is absolutely important, and should not be an "add-on" down the road. In 10 years, our world will be "connected" in ways that we can't even fathom right now, and any vulnerabilities in the connected devices or the networks connecting them could have a serious negative impact on our lives. Do you really want your life ... your TV, your car, your fridge, your baby monitor...hacked because the products that you chose to use didn't have the correct security measures in place?

Agree that security is important, which is why most vendors have offered it for some years now. You are correct in that the connected aspects of the world will change greatly in the coming years. They already have and will continue to move in that direction. IoT cars, fridges and baby monitors are in our future. A tiny percentage have them today (I dont know a single person who has any).

In the meantime I've had automated lights and things since 1980. I've changed gear a few times, and added vendor based security, but the basic functions are the same.

There is no such thing as "correct security". It comes in levels and flavors. Its a user choice of how much and what flavor to use. 5 Years ago most homes had unsecure Wifi (no passwords at all). Today thats rare based on what I see.

An old saying comes to mind: "What one person can do, another can undo". The recent Apple/FBI case is a good example, as it seems like there might be a chink somewhere in the armor, but only time will tell there.

 

[shareef777]

Hmm, okay. Well, I know that Hunter is making HomeKit enabled ceiling fans, and Insteon has a fan controller that will work if you're willing to buy their HomeKit enabled hub.

Will check it out. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[OldSchoolMacGuy]

Not surprising. Can't really modify existing hardware to make it work. One of the requirements of HomeKit is that it can't require a hub. Pretty part to make something designed to work with a hub, running its own network tech, work with wifi instead and skip the hub.

 

[rdlink]

Will check it out. Thanks for the heads up.

I went back a looked at the Hunter offerings. They introduced them at CES, but they won't be on the market until June.

 

[WilliamG]

Generally agree. One difference is that I have been doing this stuff for 20+ years. I have sharing options as well, which work fine for what we need.

Setup is still tricky. It has been that way since the early 80s and still is. Very few people have any real HA today. I know of maybe 2 others. Neither use HomeKit.

No end user could ever setup Apple based HA in a minute or two. It generally takes a fairly long conversation to explain whats possible and what different pieces of hardware are needed. Then they got to find them, connect them all over the house, and then begin the process of software related things. Thats before they even consider things like schedules and defaults. An expert can do it quickly, but thats not most end users.

Today most folks dont even know its possible and have no clue of where to start., Its also pricey for most, which is a factor. It will become common in the future, but thats a few years away.

Apple has great security. But other vendors have security as well, which is more than good enough for most home setups. Its a little like most Wifi, break-ins are a user ID and password away.

HomeKit may end up being a good tool, but its not doing so well just yet. At least there are a few actual commercial hardware options today, which is different than most of last year.
[doublepost=1459709680][/doublepost]

Agree that security is important, which is why most vendors have offered it for some years now. You are correct in that the connected aspects of the world will change greatly in the coming years. They already have and will continue to move in that direction. IoT cars, fridges and baby monitors are in our future. A tiny percentage have them today (I dont know a single person who has any).

In the meantime I've had automated lights and things since 1980. I've changed gear a few times, and added vendor based security, but the basic functions are the same.

There is no such thing as "correct security". It comes in levels and flavors. Its a user choice of how much and what flavor to use. 5 Years ago most homes had unsecure Wifi (no passwords at all). Today thats rare based on what I see.

An old saying comes to mind: "What one person can do, another can undo". The recent Apple/FBI case is a good example, as it seems like there might be a chink somewhere in the armor, but only time will tell there.

Yes, an end user can set up Apple-based HA in a minute or two, or just by following simple instructions in under 5 minutes. It really is that easy, at least given my extensive experience now with Lutron-based lights/shades. If I can set it up in 2 minutes, then it can be set up for members of my family in one tap of a button. I just send them an invitation, they accept, and they're in. The end. They can then control literally everything in the house.

At the end of the day, yeah - the support is weak right now, but what's there does work, and works SO easily. And for me/my family, that's really all that matters.

 

[mw360]

Not surprising. Can't really modify existing hardware to make it work. One of the requirements of HomeKit is that it can't require a hub. Pretty part to make something designed to work with a hub, running its own network tech, work with wifi instead and skip the hub.

This is the first I've heard of this. Are you sure? Hue requires a hub, as do several other HomeKit enabled products mentioned in this thread. The hub would seem to be essential in future-proofing all those devices, and since many run using ZigBee or similar adding wifi would escalate costs, power usage and connectivity problems. Seems like a really bad requirement.

 

[sudo1996]

That sucks. I'm using the Lutron product line and love it. Just wish they included additional devices like fan control. Every home has lights, and I'm pretty sure most have ceiling fans. Not sure why they don't include controls for that.

Must be newer than what we have at home. My dad and I had to deal with what felt like 1970s hardware to reprogram the lights. I was sending commands over RS-232, and the server couldn't hold more than a ~128KB program file, a limit that we could barely skirt. Definitely the sketchiest computer project I've undertaken.

I've seen newer systems, and they're better but not nearly as good as they should be, given the state of technology today. Was hoping Apple would revolutionize it, but there's nothing yet.

 

[appledefenceforce]

I can't believe the commentators actually encourage Apple to lower the security requirement for HOME products.

 

[Ed217]

Yes, an end user can set up Apple-based HA in a minute or two, or just by following simple instructions in under 5 minutes. It really is that easy, at least given my extensive experience now with Lutron-based lights/shades. If I can set it up in 2 minutes, then it can be set up for members of my family in one tap of a button. I just send them an invitation, they accept, and they're in. The end. They can then control literally everything in the house.

At the end of the day, yeah - the support is weak right now, but what's there does work, and works SO easily. And for me/my family, that's really all that matters.

A 2 minute setup is beyond impossible. Its not an iOS thing, but a gear thing. Just plugging in adapters in lights takes a while, after they decide which to cover (most never cover them all). And even thats after they have figured out how many to buy, where to get them, and opening the packages. Its a process that takes some bit of time.

Then there is the software part. Scenes, rooms, schedules, and how they actually operate it. It takes some time. Thats after they figure out what app to download and which buttons do what. Then later that day they call their buddy who put them on to HA and say "I hooked it all up and the lights dont come on. You ask if they manually turned the light off, and they say...WHAT, you mean I cant turn a light off with the switch any more..." Its a learning experience that takes time...and patience.

Going from zero to a full HA setup for someone who have never even heard of the concept is along the lines of someone, who has never seen a smartphone, going from a corded land line to an iPhone...expect its more involved. Dont get me wrong, HA is a thing that is happening and will affect most homes after some time. But its a slow process and education and learning take a LOT longer than 2 minutes.