Belkin Upgrades Thunderbolt Express Dock with USB 3.0 and eSATA, Bumps Price to $399.99

[Nostromo]

When will we see the first $1000 dock?

And the cable for $45? That's the way Circuit City used to rip off customers - before they went broke.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Let's figure this out by this thing by component costs.

I will be *MORE* than generous:

2 Thunderbolt $80
3 USB 3 $30
Firewire 800 $20
eSata $10
Ethernet $5
3.5 in/out $1
case $50

Then add 3-5x markup and you get a $300 to $400 product considering the applicable market it is selling into

And this is why Thunderbolt will be FireWire Part II, folks.

This analogy needs to die. Firewire never took on because Apple charged too much money for the per port license and they couldn't control the motherboard (Intel did) so Firewire was an expensive add-on.

Intel owns Thunderbolt and the motherboard chipsets and has signaled an intention to put Thunderbolt into future chipsets. It all but guarantees Thunderbolts success.

Right now we're in early adopter pricing. The people that need this technology will pay a premium like any other new technology. Joe Six Pack won't need or want this until it's baked in a couple of years and more affordable. Par for the course.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

My Laserdisc player, plays both sides (though most didn't).

What killed Laserdiscs was the pricing. $99 or even more for a movie!

When dvds came out at only $20. Goodbye Laserdisc.

I have forgotten how expensive they were at that time. That was also the time when first run VHS movies were kinda pricey too. Didn't the play through players have to spin the disc in the opposite direction when changing sides?

I have pretty good memories about laserdiscs. We had a video rental place that rented them pretty cheap. One big bitch about them was that they were so big, sometimes we'd get a disc that was cracked. They were still two separate sides that were glued together, much like DVD's are. Heck, I have Star Wars and Jurassic Park special editions for Laserdisc... A few other too cool flicks too. Ahh, the good old days.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

... in what world does this kind of strategy make sense?

Quick recap:
- Belkin Announces pricey hub for $300
- Competetitor announces their hub is going to undercut it, at $250
- Belkin announces that they'll raise the price to $450

Having your competitor sell their product for just $50 less than you wasn't enough, you had to make your product cost nearly twice as much + raise your price?

(For anyone who isn't aware, this is the exact wrong strategy for introducing premium products. You start with a sky high price and then bring it down, like Apple did with the $600 iPhone or $500 iPod. You don't start sky high and then decide to boost your price to the moon.)

 

[manu chao]

I think Apple should jump in to kickstart TB device adoption. Maybe offer a TB-equipped Time Capsule. If Apple could keep the price of Time Capsule the same as it is now but offer it with TB, the company could exponentially increase both Time Capsule and TB device sales.

A wireless router that is connected to your computer via (TB) wire? What is the point of that?

Or do you want to use the TC only as a NAS that doubles as dock? For the NAS part, TB would not really add much over GbitEthernet since the TC is only a single HDD unit.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

When will we see the first $1000 dock?

And the cable for $45? That's the way Circuit City used to rip off customers - before they went broke.

Heck, Best Buy jacks up their prices a lot more than Circuit City did. I've found printer cartridges at the local Best Buy marked up $5.00+ over the price of the nearby Staples and OfficeMax. I am amazed at the 100%+ markups on cables nearly everywhere. HDMI cables are so marked up, it's tragic. I worked at Circuit City. They died of a largely self inflicted wound...

 

[nuckinfutz]

Exactly...who is going to spend $400 on this hub thing? 0.

Well, maybe some super diehard employees that have $400 to blow in their department's budget.

This extremely expensive device is yet another nail in the coffin for TB.

The people that need a single cable dock. If modern day docks like the HP dock I linked early are in the $200 range without the flexibility then is it too far a reach to think that there are plenty of people what would spend more for a faster and more flexible dock?

Some of you are so wrapped up in your own personal beliefs that it's all you can see or you just simply have an axe to grind about Thunderbolt until it gets cheap enough to make you happy. That's fair if not abstract from reality.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

(For anyone who isn't aware, this is the exact wrong strategy for introducing premium products. You start with a sky high price and then bring it down, like Apple did with the $600 iPhone or $500 iPod. You don't start sky high and then decide to boost your price to the moon.)

So Apple doesn't sell iPhones for $600? Really? Ever priced an unlocked phone?

 

[manu chao]

A simple, USB hub that connects to a Mac via thunderbolt... say, 4 USB 2.0 ports as an example, or one or more of them could be USB 3.0, but just make sure the whole thing together with a thunderbolt cord costs LESS THAN $100!

Why not get a USB 3 hub directly?

 

[Rocketman]

Cables

http://www.monoprice.com/products/s...&cp_id=10240&gclid=CMzShPjUt7ACFUoGRQodbQNh6A

It is silly to go on here and post you will not buy a product for its price. Firstly it is the first, bleeding edge product to offer the features actual likely buyers asked for. Besides that you will probably be able to buy it on Amazon for about a hundred bucks less or so.

The retail price serves a valuable purpose for those folks who need or want to buy the product in a full service retail store.

I agree with one commenter the main value to TB is multiple display support.

Has anyone at MR or elsewhere set up a web page to show typical multi-monitor setups with TB vs USB2 vs USB3 and the resolution limits? That would be handy, even if were a paragraph or three from someone who has actually done it.

If you can get by with a USB hub to bypass TB you don't need TB to begin with. The whole point of TB is very high bandwidth applications so of course it is more expensive by a bunch.

Don't hook up your keyboard and mouse through the TB plug with a converter.

Now an external RAID, SSD, or 4K monitor, now we're talkin'.

http://www.drobo.com/news/press-releases/2012/press_release_2012_06_05.php

Rocketman

 

[theluggage]

This is not an excuse, It's just a hub. Period.

I'm not sure the definition of "hub" is engraved in stone anywhere, but the sort of cheap USB hubs you're talking about simply share the bandwidth of one port between multiple devices. That's fine for (say) connecting a mouse, keyboard and other low bandwidth devices, but connect two disc drives to a hub and try and copy between them and things will start to crawl.

Thunderbolt hubs add new controllers, with their own bandwidth. They also add interfaces that don't exist or aren't externally accessible on the host computer (like eSATA, USB3 and, if you have an Air, FireWire). Yes, you could get a similar effect, a lot cheaper, by buying a PCIe multi-io card, but good luck plugging that into a laptop with no PCIe slots.

 

[Cicatrix]

f you Belkin

 

[avanpelt]

But what killed laserdiscs wasn't that as much as having to get up and flip the disc over to continue watching the video. Yes, the picture was great (for its time), but the inconveniences and size made dropping it a no brainer. I still have my player and a number of discs but haven't bothered plugging it in...

If having to flip the disc over killed the LD, having to pay several hundred dollars for a simple dock will most assuredly kill (or severely limit) Thunderbolt and keep it from ever becoming mainstream.

If the spec sticker on the new MBPs is legit, it would appear that Apple may see the writing on the wall that USB 3.0 is for general consumers and the low end "prosumer" market and Thunderbolt is for high end prosumers and full-on professionals. That wasn't the way Thunderbolt was initially presented by Steve, but I recognize that technologies evolve as they will and the roadmap changes to accommodate the technology.

I would feel a whole lot better about Thunderbolt if Apple would come out at WWDC and clearly articulate that Thunderbolt is for professionals and USB 3.0 is for everyone else. We're all thinking that already, but I think it's important for Apple to say that they recognize that too. Otherwise, we're going to keep waiting for prices on Thunderbolt peripherals to drop in six months and maybe that's just not in the cards right now. Apple debuted Thunderbolt to the world and I think they need to give the world a "status update" on where the technology is at present and where they see it going in the next year.

 

[nuckinfutz]

thunderbolt hubs add new controllers, with their own bandwidth. They also add interfaces that don't exist or aren't externally accessible on the host computer (like esata, usb3 and, if you have an air, firewire). Yes, you could get a similar effect, a lot cheaper, by buying a pcie multi-io card, but good luck plugging that into a laptop with no pcie slots.

this!!


All these controllers then have to be aggregated and pushed through TB and it's got to work with one single connection.

Would I rather have this at $200? Of course! But man have some of us got so jaded that we can't get excited about technology? If every device is cheap then it means everyone has it and there's not that thrill of being on of the first or few to enjoy a new device.

Time must be tough if people are lashing out at companies based on pricing.

 

[Colpeas]

If it's so easy. If it's "just a hub" then why aren't see seeing more options beyond the Matrox option that is far more expensive than your $100 pricing.

You guys need to be realistic.

Well, the ones who need to be more realistic are the companies who sell these overpriced accessories. How many units do they expect to sell for this price? If Apple can sell Mac Mini for $599, how much can it cost to manufacture one of these thunderbolt boxes? I don't think Belkin would lose out on this if they dropped the price to $150.

I see this on '-40% sale' three months after the release as they realize noone is buying it for their price. Imagine people going mental over it as they'd think they're getting a deal...

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

So Apple doesn't sell iPhones for $600? Really? Ever priced an unlocked phone?

I suppose you're right. My point was that Apple doesn't raise prices, they only lower them. So the iPhone was introduced at $600 and can still be bought for $600.

 

[Philoman]

I noticed that Belkin pricing has been higher due to better product design but this is insulting. Or is the Belkin marketing out of their mind?

I'd rather spend the money on the Thunderbolt display to use as a dock.

Consumers just have to wait until all the other manufactures to saturate the market with the similar product. It's just a waiting game.

Greedy sellers will get left out.

 

[Konrad]

I am beginning to think for Belkin and others to have a better inside what cook is cooking up. It is not fu Belkin nor Matrox, apple should ensure confidence within the market by back compatibility with drilling the freaky MBP with two other ports and there would be no discussion. The TB today is a novelty and I have nothing against it.

 

[jmgregory1]

Others have suggested, and I agree, that I am far more apt to spend the extra $600 and get the TB display. These docks just don't present a good value proposition, IMHO.

 

[ghostface147]

Seagate has one. Nice, too.

It seems to need an adapter for it to work. I'd like to have one with it built in.

 

[DavidFoster]

Agree with all other posters

This price is insanely high. $300 WITH an included thunderbolt cable would be the most bearable maximum I could imagine.

 

[Colpeas]

I'm not sure the definition of "hub" is engraved in stone anywhere, but the sort of cheap USB hubs you're talking about simply share the bandwidth of one port between multiple devices. That's fine for (say) connecting a mouse, keyboard and other low bandwidth devices, but connect two disc drives to a hub and try and copy between them and things will start to crawl.

Thunderbolt hubs add new controllers, with their own bandwidth. They also add interfaces that don't exist or aren't externally accessible on the host computer (like eSATA, USB3 and, if you have an Air, FireWire). Yes, you could get a similar effect, a lot cheaper, by buying a PCIe multi-io card, but good luck plugging that into a laptop with no PCIe slots.

yeah, tell me about how pricey those controllers are. I don't think it's more than $10/unit + license fees... Appreciating your point, I'll call a hi-tech hub from now on.

 

[rmwebs]

How do you know that Thunderbolt licensing isn't high?

To be honest, I dont know, it was more of an assumption that Intel and Apple would want this to be a lot more mainstream given how badly they screwed up with Firewire, which ultimately was due to the expensive initial license fee.

You'd have thought that getting thunderbolt licensing at a very reasonable rate would be something they would want to do, else Apple are putting an expensive port on their machines that may as well not exist for a very large chunk of its customers who are sane enough not to pay $50 just for a cable, let alone the peripherals.

Apple/Intel really aren't handeling this well. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that together, they just created a complete flop. It's an excellent technology that SHOULD be aimed at consumers (not just the pro market) to get it widely adopted.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Well, the ones who need to be more realistic are the companies who sell these overpriced accessories. How many units do they expect to sell for this price? If Apple can sell Mac Mini for $599, how much can it cost to manufacture one of these thunderbolt boxes? I don't think Belkin would lose out on this if they dropped the price to $150.

I see this on '-40% sale' three months after the release as they realize noone is buying it for their price. Imagine people going mental over it as they'd think they're getting a deal...

It's the market though. Apple will sell millions of mini in a year. Belkin realistically will only sell thousands of this unit. Their aim isn't for everyone. they're aiming at probably the creative markets. Videographers, Photographers and anyone who collects hard drives with projects strewn across them.

Belkin can't drop the price to $150. The licensing for TB chips itself is likely half that and then you've got to add in all the other controllers. Are they making a profit? Yes but they've got to fund future development and provide support.

 

[ralphthemagi]

This isn't just a "hub". It's not even really a dock.

It's $400 because it has it's own logic controllers. It's basically a computer. Firewire, eSATA, Ethernet, audio, etc.. They aren't all just passthroughs to onboard components.

Thunderbolt extends the PCI bus. Imagine buying a PCI-e ethernet card, firewire card, eSATA controller, sound card, etc.. That's what this device actually is.

Thunderbolt isn't like USB. It's not a plug-n-play kind of thing. It gives you low-level access to the system. It essentially allows you to extend your motherboard.

The board inside the the Thunderbolt display has multiple controllers. PCIe, USB, ethernet and a audio processor.

Inside a Thunderbolt Display you will find:

• Pericom PI7C9X440SL PCIe-to-USB 2.0 host controller
• L129NB11 EFL Thunderbolt port controller
• Analog Devices ADAV4601 audio processor
• NXP LPC2144 USB 2.0 microcontroller
• Delta LFE9249 10/100/1000 Base-T LAN filter
• SMSC USB2517-JZX USB 2.0 hub controller
• LSI L-FW643E-2 Open Host Controller Interface (Firewire Controller)
• Broadcom BCM57761 Gigabit ethernet controller

You can't get that onto a shelf for $150, not even if you are doing insane volume. Belkin can't do volume. $400 is high, but reasonable.