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Best and worst majors
- Thread starter dukebound85
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me_94501
macrumors 65816
I beg to differ. True, there are many advantages to a scientific or technical major, but there are plenty of good reasons to consider a humanities/liberal arts major.
1. Not everyone's brains work the same. I suck at math, for example.
2. A liberal arts degree does not mean you're going to be stuck a starving artist. An English degree, for example, can be very useful for more than just journalism or book-writing or editing. The communication and critical thinking skills you learn in the humanities can be applicable to many fields including business, marketing, social work, teaching, public relations, and so forth. And in my mind, critical thinking trumps all.
3. There's plenty of money to be had in non-technical fields. Journalists can make good money.
4. It's not the degree. It's what you do with it and the effort you put into it. And sometimes it's simply being at the right place at the right time. I know of people who have majored in scientific fields only to end up doing clerical work. On the other hand, I know English majors who have done quite well.
My only advice: do what you love and love what you do. Simple. Life is too short to hate what you do for a living. I majored in English and finished in 2006; today I work at a major computer industry publication, doing something I've imagined doing since I was a kid; no complaints here.
NAG
macrumors 68030
Just a note, with a BS in any science you can usually land yourself a job that makes $90k in the pharmaceutical industry. Yeah, it isn't research but it is money. And with any job, where you start in any science job depends on past performance as well as luck (getting into a good lab or whatnot). Yes, you'll probably need to get at least a masters to progress but it is hardly mandatory out of the gate.
Personally, I'd only rate education and business degrees as useless. They mostly seem to be formalities and few people actually learn anything from the experience. I have a different definition of useful, by the way.
Personally, I'd only rate education and business degrees as useless. They mostly seem to be formalities and few people actually learn anything from the experience. I have a different definition of useful, by the way.
it5five
macrumors 65816
Yes, and it went pretty much the same; a bunch of engineers telling everyone else they are idiots for not studying engineering since it can make you rich.
Why is it that it's always people with B.S.'s telling others what to study? I've never had a conversation in any of my history classes about how mechanical engineers are idiots and should change majors. Is that all you people talk about?
Studying something "useless" like history has many benefits, even if you don't plan on going to graduate school (although I plan on doing so). It teaches you to how to research, to understand what you are looking at, and how to use what information you find to argue your position; a skill many people lack.
I don't see what concern it is of yours what anyone else is doing with their time at university. The most "useless" program you can study is one that you chose based only on it's ability to make loads of money after graduation.
Queen of Spades
macrumors 68030
This thread is so full of useless pompousness, I don't even know where to begin. I echo the previous poster's statement in wondering why anyone would care so deeply about another person's major?
I couldn't imagine choosing one of the so-called money majors just for the hope that a well-paying job awaits after graduation, eschewing any and all academic interest and happiness. Eff that. If that sort of thing truly appeals to you, great, but otherwise that seems like a hollow way to spend the best four years of your life.
Getting a good job comes down to more than a degree. It's a combination of intelligence, skill, ability to adapt, resourcefulness, tenacity, schooling, and luck. All I can say is I'm glad I've had the courage to pursue the career that will make me happy. Real success to me is being able to wake up every day excited about work. I have a few friends that have gone into the engineering fields, and most of them count down the minutes each day until they go home. Not for me.
I couldn't imagine choosing one of the so-called money majors just for the hope that a well-paying job awaits after graduation, eschewing any and all academic interest and happiness. Eff that. If that sort of thing truly appeals to you, great, but otherwise that seems like a hollow way to spend the best four years of your life.
Getting a good job comes down to more than a degree. It's a combination of intelligence, skill, ability to adapt, resourcefulness, tenacity, schooling, and luck. All I can say is I'm glad I've had the courage to pursue the career that will make me happy. Real success to me is being able to wake up every day excited about work. I have a few friends that have gone into the engineering fields, and most of them count down the minutes each day until they go home. Not for me.
Scepticalscribe
macrumors Haswell
Excellent post, which is another way of saying I agree completely. I'm a history teacher at college, which makes me a bit biased, but your arguments are exactly the ones I make to my students when explaining to them how to write an essay, and why the skills you learn when writing history essays can actually transfer readily to the wider labour market.
The liberal arts - history especially - teach you to think, to make connections, to synthesise material, to critically evaluate facts and sources, to research, to use material to make an argument, to understand what you are looking at and the world you are in. All of this is useful in any job.
Cheers and good luck
when i have many friends that major in a field and then can not find jobs in their major and resort to working for retail, flight attendants, or hotels with theater, history, and speech communications degrees respectively how is it not a valid question to choose a worthwhile major?
all of those jobs do not require a 4 year degree costing 10's of thousands. do you get what im saying?
i would say that for the majority of students, going to college is to
1) improve their marketability for a career
2) to learn about what they have an interest in
my thought is make 1 your major and 2 your minor and if they intersect than awesome
im not against history but you have to have a game plan with your degree. you know you can minor in history as well if you get a buisness degree or science degree
every major teaches you how to think by the way.
i am not trying to bash anyone's major here, just trying to get input on why they choose a degree that may result in diffulty getting a job after graduation and the thought process behind it. i asked this question after seeing what my friends encountered upon graduation
in other words why pay money for an education if you may have a hard time reaping the benefits of that education. ANY major can be learned for free pretty much by learning on your own time and studying the books yourself. but why pay for the transcript when it may be hard to market your degree to prospective employers?
Big-TDI-Guy
macrumors 68030
My favorite tee-shirt ever.
"I have a degree in Liberal Arts.... Would you like fries with that?"
😉
"I have a degree in Liberal Arts.... Would you like fries with that?"
😉
LethalWolfe
macrumors G3
Ever think that the 'problem' is w/your friends and not w/the majors they picked?😉
Some require more critical thinking while others require more rote memorization.
For myself, and most of my friends I graduated with, we'd rather take the inherent risks of working in the entertainment industry than land some soul-sucking, welcome to my cubicle, I can't wait 'til retirement office job. A degree in radio/tv production is definitely more of a niche than a generic, covers-a-lot-of-bases business degree but if I know I want to go into radio/tv production, why would I major in business? Being a business major certainly won't help me get a job in my field and will take way learning opportunities I could get as a radio/tv production major.
Horses for courses, man. It's like years ago, after I graduated, my dad kept offering to buy me a nice suit for job interviews and suggesting I cut my hair (which was very long at the time). He was just trying to help because in his professional world suits are good and long hair is unacceptable, but he couldn't understand that in my professional world suits are bad and long hair is fine.
Lethal
Hey dude F off. Just becuase you couldn't hack it in the real world you don't have to be jealous. I know plenty of people that have other degrees besides an engineering degree and have been able to do well.
The thing is if you are good at something and you think you can live well with it then that is what you need to do. I know a guy with a biology degree who manages a restaurant and loves it. Crap, my wife is a nurse and I happen to be an engineer and while I have had a good career so far, there have been times where I thought I might not have a job tomorrow.
Big thing is to always pick something that you will be interested in and can live off of.
it5five
macrumors 65816
What? It seems your first two sentences are at odds with the rest of your post? I was saying pretty much what I think you are saying: you should do what you love rather than do something just for money. If you love engineering, that's great. If your wife loves nursing, that's great that she is doing what she wants. All I was saying is that people who major in humanities or liberal arts deserve the same respect.
You need to understand that not everyone wants some career in the corporate world after they graduate. Your reasoning for going to college is backwards, in my opinion. University is primarily supposed to be a place where you learn and expand your knowledge. Any skills gained because of that helps your "marketability".
I do have a plan, as does almost everyone else I talk to in my classes. Why would you assume that people in the humanities don't have a plan?
So what if your friends work in the hotel industry after getting a history degree? The job might no be related to history, but skills they learned through their studies will likely help them advance.
Also, I couldn't do what I'm doing now "for free". I wouldn't have the time or access to valuable sources like I do now (knowledgeable professors, free access to research databases, access to a large library of material).
Like I said before, you need to think outside of your pre-defined idea of what college is for. I have absolutely no interest in the corporate world. I actually enjoy what I study and will be continuing my education after I graduate with my B.A.
Scepticalscribe
macrumors Haswell
CalBoy
macrumors 604
Not all majors teach you how to think the same way, however.
I've noticed this myself with people I started as a freshman with who are now seniors (like me). Most of them went off into the realm of biology or engineering. I'm one of the few who took up a, how did you put it, "useless" major. Political science may not land me a $90k salary upon graduation, or give me detailed knowledge about how to splice a gene or construct a bridge, but it has given me invaluable knowledge into how the human mind works.
In novel situations, it's helpful to know how a given model will produce certain results, because the road of life is littered with social problems, not mechanical ones.
Most people who get an English/history/whatever degree actually have quite a few doors open to them after graduation.
English and political science are the two most common majors for law students, and English majors can almost always find work as teachers (English teachers are in near perpetual short supply).
Others want to go to grad school and teach at the college level, while others want to do something creative with their time. Having a specific degree like mechanical engineering locks you into that profession, which isn't true for liberal arts majors.
Big-TDI-Guy
macrumors 68030
I disagree about being locked into a specific field with an engineering degree. Engineering disciplines are easily adapted and interchangeable with other fields.
CalBoy
macrumors 604
Can an electrical engineer really expect to get a job after 10 years in another field of engineering without schooling?
Why would the company hire that individual over another engineer who has more training in that specific type of engineering?
Big-TDI-Guy
macrumors 68030
I've seen many hi-end engineering positions open to multiple disciplines. Many different fields share a high degree of commonality. If you understand math and physics, it's easy to re-apply them to another discipline.
Sun Baked
macrumors G5
CalBoy
macrumors 604
Then the crux of the matter remains the same: it's difficult to do something that is drastically different from what you were doing before. Granted in one job you may have been designing a bridge and in another you are designing an electronic device, but if you've grown tired of that kind of work, you're really out of luck unless you devote more time to school.
An English major on the other hand can do a variety of drastically different jobs, from teacher to journalist to editor. Each involves very different skills and has a very different job description.
many companies seek engineers for jobs that arent engineering related. in fact i would say about a third of compaies that were at engineering career fairs were looking for engineers not for engineering but rather management/leadership type positions
engineers can do engineering/teaching/management/law/medicine/whatever. granted some require professional schooling as with everything but to say having an engineering discipline limits you to design work is very naive as ones career progresses.
im not saying dont do what you like but practicality also needs to be an issue. i guess my issue is when kids pick a major because its easy or because it has some allure to it without thinking about the long term effects of the decision while at the same time paying big money to get that degree. however if you have a passion for a topic, then things will work out usually i agree.
for instance, dont major in psych unless you want to get advanced degrees in the field for example
If students who are lazy or lack foresight pick a major, it does not make the major useless. My undergrad had a very large group of English majors and most of the ones I knew got a good job afterwards (grant writers, technical writers, marketing, consultants, editors, teachers, npo work, law). Maybe it's due to the great English program, but I think it's more due to their individual efforts in their job search. A person who is good at job hunting, resume building, and interviewing will be able to get a good job regardless of their major. An ex of mine majored in Literature and is now a stock broker. She knew almost nothing about stocks when she got the job and is now making much more than any Engineer/Science major from my class.
I studied Comparative Literature about which most people know little. Your main question is, why would someone choose a course of study when another course of study would seem to offer a better return on investment? My response would be another question: why would I choose a major that would lead to a career in which I have no interest? Why would I study biology, chemistry, or engineering when I have no interest in their career prospects? If I took the premise that a humanities degree offers less career prospects, the fact that the career prospects of the "useful" degrees mean nothing to me nullifies whatever reasons there are for me to choose a major for career prospects.
The reason I chose my major is the combination of instruction and developing skills. You stated something about being able to teach yourself anything from a book on your own time, making the choice of something "not as useful" perplexing. I think your premise is wrong. There are some things you cannot get by yourself. I knew I could probably teach myself anything technical because there are plenty of books laid out for you. I would never have been able to read Othello and found by myself the same insights I got from my professor. I searched online and could not find the same theories we discussed in class. Everything I found was the same facile reading. Multiply this occurrence by a few hundred at least. This experience has led me to develop an analytical skill set I would not otherwise have been able to obtain. It has changed the way I think and interact with everything.
IJ Reilly
macrumors P6
I make my living as an historian, not teaching, but consulting. Before you decide what professions are worth pursuing, it would be well worth your while finding out what kinds of jobs are available in those professions. The way you find out is to talk to people who are in that profession. The answers might surprise you.
The only "worst" major is one you don't really have an affinity for. The "best" major is the one that really interests you.
The only "worst" major is one you don't really have an affinity for. The "best" major is the one that really interests you.
LethalWolfe
macrumors G3
CalBoy
macrumors 604
Just as it's naive to assume that a degree in <insert one here> is somehow limiting.
An engineer can decide to go to law school, but that doesn't make much use out of his thousands of dollars spent on engineering coursework now does it?
Unless you mean to say that there is intrinsic value to having a degree regardless of its monetary rewards, which frankly isn't in keeping with this thread's tone.
The only impractical thing is to pick a major simply because you think it's going to make you money. The decision should be made on a variety of factors, not the least of which should be whether or not the topic interests you.
Last I checked, industrial psychology was still in big demand. How else would <insert consumer goods company here> know how to market their products?
Plus, psychology has a very real profession behind it. One can't enter into a Masters or PhD program in psychology without a BA in it.
Unless you think we should let our psychologists practice with only a BA; after all, additional education can at times be "impractical."
QFT.
What's the old saying, do a job you hate for the money and you'll feel underpaid no matter your salary; do a job you love and you'll never feel underpaid.
What difference does it make? Engineering courses, as far as I know, generally cost the same as any other course at most universities, so it really doesn't matter what you spent those thousands on if you want to go on to law school. As long as someone has the writing, logic and thinking skills they should be able to handle law school regardless of major.
No bachelors degree is really very limiting. I mean sure, having an english degree makes it more difficult to become a CPA, but if you really wanted to get on that path chances are you could just go take the required courses in a MS program and get on that track. A bachelors should really be considered the bare minimum now days, they aren't enough to make it to the top of quite a few professions and don't even meet the requirements to get into others (architecture has some strict requirements and many states have begun to require 150+ credit hours or a MS/MBA to become a CPA).
I really say just do what you love and enjoy but keep in mind what your career, life, and realistic wealth goals are in the coming years when you select a major.