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Since the nearest Apple store is 2 hours from me, and the nearest CompUsa is 45 minutes from me and the nearest Buy Best is 5 minutes from me, I would love this. Apple products would sell like mad at Best Buy if done right. They need the software to go with it. People who are switchers need to see the software thats available for the Mac.

JOHN
 
BB is opening a new store down the street from me in the fall. If Apple moves in, I think I'll have to get a job there to off set the PC pushers. Maybe I can help bring a little intelligence to the PC buying public. Do PC buyers have intelligence???
 
Originally posted by favpseudonym
a massive pc software selection next to a puny mac software section will discourage switchers

true. but how much of that software is garbage?
 
Originally posted by favpseudonym
a massive pc software selection next to a puny mac software section will discourage switchers

However, what you have right now at stores like Best Buy is a massive PC software selection and NO Mac software section (barring the rare hybrid, thank you Blizzard!). Small software selection is still better than none at all.
 
Originally posted by SiliconAddict
I swear I heard a tech tell this poor couple that by increasing the hard drive size you would increase the overall performance of your computer *slams head into keyboard. It wasn’t as entertaining as listening to a rep talk about how this USB 1 scanner was just as fast as a USB 2 scanner. He talked about how USB 2 could handle more devices or some other BS like that.

Your post neglects to mention if the larger hard drive would've increased overall performance and if the USB 1 scanner was just as fast as the USB 2 scanner. It's very possible both were true.

If this person had an older hard driver (often older=smaller) then perhaps buying a new (larger) hard drive would've made things much faster. Likewise if they're maxing out their smaller hard drive, a larger hard drive could help by allowing larger swap files and reducing fragmentation.

As far as the scanner, USB is often not a bottleneck for printers or scanners. It can be, but not always. Furthermore, did the computer they have feature USB 2? Again, it's very possible that the salesperson was right in saying that the USB 1 scanner was just as fast (it could even have been faster).

The point here is that often people hear a little bit about what a salesperson says and makes all kinds of false assumptions.

The other thing I have to say is that it is REALLY difficult to get good salespeople when it comes to computer products. It's hard enough with consumer electronics, but with computers the problem is that the only way someone is really going to be truly knowledgeable is if they have career experience...and even then they'll have all kinds of bias based on what they're familiar with.

The bigger problem is that if a salesperson has career experience, what are they doing working for the lower waged job of a salesperson?

Making things worse is the fact that the computer field is so incredibly broad these days. It used to be that someone just needed to know Word, WordPerfect, Lotus, Excel, dBase, BASIC, DOS, etc... to be full expert on all that was computers.

Know people go in to a store and they want an expert in Photography, or an expert on Music production, or an expert in Video production, or an expert in ______.

And the hardware and software changes way too fast to keep up with everything.

I managed a computer store. I used to say that about 50% of my time was spent on information, 25% was on management, and 25% was dealing with customers (or servicing their equipment). In addition, I was doing this while going to school at the time for multimedia studies.

Here's what should happen:

First, customers should realize that the salespeople aren't going to know everything, and in some cases may have learned something incorrectly and be giving misinformation.

Salespeople should always back up every question with printed, displayed or demonstrated answers.

"Does this have a FireWire port?"
"Yes, it's listed in the specsheet and you can see it right here."

Managers should always offer a path for salespeople to easily get answers to questions.

I find it frustrating as hell that 99% of all possible answers are easily found on the Website for the product and yet very few stores offer customers Web access.

Stores should have kiosks set up with links to all the products they sell.

Likewise a searchable FAQ database should be created for questions like, "Does this USB2 device work with a USB 1.1 port?"

Then you run into the less tangible questions...many of them should not be asked, or when asked should not be answered. What I mean by this is that of all the products in the store, it's unlikely that the salesperson could know all the information about them all, but even more unlikely that the salesperson could regularly *USE* them all.

Usually salespeople have a passion for the products they sell. This makes it easy to ask them what products they're excited about, but it makes it hard to ask them about feelings towards products they don't actually use. Usually when questions like this are asked, they are answered based on biases which may or may not match the customer's situation.

"Should I get a Mac or a PC?" is often going to be answered by the type of computer the salesperson actually uses. That's pretty obvious, but it extends to lower levels of decisions as well. The biases aren't always as easily understood and usually the question as a shortcut is part of the problem.

If someone says PC, and then is asked why, they may say, "Cheaper, faster, more expandable, more compatible, more software, more likely to remain in business, etc..."

Of course those could all be argued *directly*, but there are indirect arguments based on a person's situation that could counter those claims.

Examples:
Cheaper...
The eMac is already less than what I was willing to spend.

Faster...
No the Dual G4 is faster *for me* to do many of my tasks.

More expandable...
the MDD G4s have much more room for drives than the average PC

More compatible...
Not in my office which is mostly Macs

More software...
Not for the software I use

More likely to remain in business...
Apple is very likely to remain in business longer than the life of my products from them.

Anyway, I'm glad to see Apple getting back into Best Buy. If done right, it could be a very good thing for them. They need to invest heavily in it for presence, training and fully maintained demo equipment.
 
Originally posted by e-coli
true. but how much of that software is garbage?

Again :rolleyes: Do me a favor and actually LOOK at the software that is available for a PC before saying such things. There are a lot of good products out there. Nintendo did the quality over quantity argument as well for the N64 when it first came out and Sony soundly thrashed them by doing sorta quality AND quantity. I swear the PC world has its myths about Macs and the Mac world has its myths about PC's and I can tell you THIS is one of those myths. You don't get quality software from an OS you get it from the person sitting behind the keyboard doing the programming and contrary to popular belief (That’s aimed at you tlhash.) there ARE intelligent programmers working on the PC platform. Just look at all those virus writers. ;)

Seriously though I expected more of this when I started browsing the various Mac forums. I'm actually surprised at how little I actually see. Guess it comes with the territory. *shrugs* :-\

As much as you guys may hate to admit it 20 racks full of PC software vs. 1 rack of Apple software DOES influence a buyers purchase decision. Its the core reason I will most likely never purchase a PowerMac and instead stick with a PowerBook and hang onto a Dell Optiplex desktop for gaming.
You can call the software on the PC trash. That is your personal opinion but in the end it goes back to the 20 rows vs. the 1 that is FACT.
 
Originally posted by MacSlut

I find it frustrating as hell that 99% of all possible answers are easily found on the Website for the product and yet very few stores offer customers Web access.

Stores should have kiosks set up with links to all the products they sell.

Best Buy has this. They have a direct link to almost every manufacturer of stuff they sell.

"i can say for a fact that the Apple ASC program will extend to Best Buy"

What is this? Is it a special discount program for employees or what?

For all of you who have had problems at best buy with salesmen I apoligise. I work at a best buy and I do know what you are talking about. They make us push the service like nothing else. But just because you have a a bad experience there dosn't mean everyone in the store sucks. I always do my best to answer every question the customer has and make sure the item is what the customer is looking for. I think best buy carrying apple is a good thing as long as the computer people don't trash talk them and only try and sell them the PC's

Macaddict16
 
Originally posted by MacSlut
Your post neglects to mention if the larger hard drive would've increased overall performance and if the USB 1 scanner was just as fast as the USB 2 scanner. It's very possible both were true.

If this person had an older hard driver (often older=smaller) then perhaps buying a new (larger) hard drive would've made things much faster. Likewise if they're maxing out their smaller hard drive, a larger hard drive could help by allowing larger swap files and reducing fragmentation.

As far as the scanner, USB is often not a bottleneck for printers or scanners. It can be, but not always. Furthermore, did the computer they have feature USB 2? Again, it's very possible that the salesperson was right in saying that the USB 1 scanner was just as fast (it could even have been faster).

I believe they said they had a 40GB drive on a HP Pavilion something. I just recently redid my uncles desktop Pavilion that also has a 40GB drive. The only thing that I know of that could possibly speed up a person’s computer is: A new drive with a larger cache onboard. A drive with a larger arial density. And a faster RPM (e.g. 7200 instead of 5400.) From everything I’ve ever read on the subject the biggest performance increase you will get on a hard drive is a decrease in the seek time and an increase in the RPM which are somewhat intertwined. The guy didn’t ask about the hard drive specs and honestly I don’t believe they would know. If the drive was a 40GB 7200 then a jump in the drive size wouldn’t help system performance all that much. At least not enough to warrant shelling our cash for a new HD.
As for USB. As I said I talked to these people after the rep left. They have a new Dell Dimension. It’s a guaranteed bet its USB 2 and USB can be a bottleneck depending on the size of image you are scanning. The point I was trying to make before is that the reps don’t take the time and effort for the customer. They show then to X product. Rattle off some specs. Nod their head a few times. Then leave. Your results may very from store to store but I’ve been to multiple stores around this area. I like stopping in to see what new toys are in. :) I may have misread a few of these conversations but every single one over the years? Doubtful.
 
I wonder how much this move into Best Buy is going to cost Apple (assuming they get their own area and such). Floor space isn't cheap and currently Apple "needs" Best Buy more than Best Buy "needs" Apple.


Lethal
 
first of all - kudos to those of you out there who noticed that whole 'apple people' thing... *duh*

what would rock:

have two g5's set up next to each other with isights attatched, with convos between the two of them... so you can walk up with a buddy and talk to each other back and forth.

that would be an awesome display, and i know more than a few computer illiterates who would be impressed just enough to start concidering the extra cost...

matt
 
what if they put the apple machines in with the windows machines? with nothing to differentiate other than 'oo that one looks cooler'.
 
"I swear the PC world has its myths about Macs and the Mac world has its myths about PC's and I can tell you THIS is one of those myths. You don't get quality software from an OS you get it from the person sitting behind the keyboard doing the programming and contrary to popular belief (That’s aimed at you tlhash." SiliconAddict

I didn't mention anything about PROGRAMMERS. I was talking about buyers! I don't now about you, but the 15 or 20 friends and family I know who have PC's, (without exception), have paid $1000 to $2000 for a PC, just to play games. Out of all the things you can do with $1500, buying a box to play a game is not the most INTELLIGENT. Let me know if you disagree.
 
Originally posted by tlhash
"I swear the PC world has its myths about Macs and the Mac world has its myths about PC's and I can tell you THIS is one of those myths. You don't get quality software from an OS you get it from the person sitting behind the keyboard doing the programming and contrary to popular belief (That’s aimed at you tlhash." SiliconAddict

I didn't mention anything about PROGRAMMERS. I was talking about buyers! I don't now about you, but the 15 or 20 friends and family I know who have PC's, (without exception), have paid $1000 to $2000 for a PC, just to play games. Out of all the things you can do with $1500, buying a box to play a game is not the most INTELLIGENT. Let me know if you disagree.
i payed a thousand dollars for my pc just to play games. i have to get what the mac cant provide. people play games, and they buy things to play them on, doesnt make people unintelligent.

iJon
 
Re: can't be too bad

Originally posted by bobindashadows
probably iSights, iPods, anything else. Wonder if Apple will make iSight cross-platform?

It's not going to happen...iSights is Firewire...noone on PC has one...even iPod had to switch to USB2
 
CD and DVD extended warranty

This afternoon, Best Buy in Valencia CA offered me a replacement guarantee for 3.50 on the Harry Potter DVD and 2.00 on a Cirque du soleil cd. They said if I scrathed it or cracked it, I could bring it back for a free replacement, the fine print sdaid for 2 years.
That was at 5:00 pm pacific time in today.
 
Macs in Best Buy right after Steve announces faster G4s

I'd expect that in July Steve Jobs will announce consumer Mac models that use G4s that might run up to 1.8 GHz. Or at least that is the topend frequency for the 7457 that Motorola showed on a company internal document. The notebook computers could get a speed to 1.5 Ghz-1.6 GHz. That's due to Motorola recently starting to use a low-k process that gives up to a 20% boost in speed and yet at a lower power than those processors made without it. Either the current 7455 1.25 GHz or 1.42 GHz G4 is being manufactured with this low-k dielectric already. An increase in voltage gives the added boost in performance to reach 1.42Ghz. Add the 33% increase in frequency from moving to a smaller process size and the 7457 G4 that Apple will use should reach 1.8 GHz.
 
Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Again :rolleyes: Do me a favor and actually LOOK at the software that is available for a PC before saying such things. There are a lot of good products out there. Nintendo did the quality over quantity argument as well for the N64 when it first came out and Sony soundly thrashed them by doing sorta quality AND quantity. I swear the PC world has its myths about Macs and the Mac world has its myths about PC's and I can tell you THIS is one of those myths. You don't get quality software from an OS you get it from the person sitting behind the keyboard doing the programming and contrary to popular belief (That’s aimed at you tlhash.) there ARE intelligent programmers working on the PC platform. Just look at all those virus writers. ;)

Seriously though I expected more of this when I started browsing the various Mac forums. I'm actually surprised at how little I actually see. Guess it comes with the territory. *shrugs* :-\

As much as you guys may hate to admit it 20 racks full of PC software vs. 1 rack of Apple software DOES influence a buyers purchase decision. Its the core reason I will most likely never purchase a PowerMac and instead stick with a PowerBook and hang onto a Dell Optiplex desktop for gaming.
You can call the software on the PC trash. That is your personal opinion but in the end it goes back to the 20 rows vs. the 1 that is FACT.


Whoa...hold the 'tude there, chief. I'm saying things like Norton Disk Lock and Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing may be adding to the repertoire of software available for the PC, but that doesn't mean they're quality products. As far as doing everything I need to do with a computer, there's plenty of software available for the Mac. Games are the only exception.

Lighten up pal. We're all reasonably intelligent souls on these boards and quite capable of making founded arguments. ;)
 
Re: Clever indeed!!!

Originally posted by mk_in_mke
Very Clever; try to explain to John Doe and his 5 YO kid what is defragmentation... And then he buys a Mac... Clever move... All Best Buy employees: Explain Defragmentation, how windows manage available memory, how to find and install drivers!!! Please do it everytime!!!!!

Michel

I can easily explain to John Doe and his kid in lamens terms, but the point is that the tech was correct.
 
Re: Re: Clever indeed!!!

Originally posted by Atradies
I can easily explain to John Doe and his kid in lamens terms, but the point is that the tech was correct.
i think the point he was trying to make, and me too, is that many time best buy people recommend things that arent necessary. so buying a new hard drive to avoid fragmentation. then you gotta charge them for backing up all there data and moving it to another computer. if they were having fragp problems i would recommend them to windows system tools for a simple fix.

iJon
 
Originally posted by Centris 650
Well, speaking for myself, many of the games I want to play aren't available on console. 99.9% of all MMORPGs are non console games. I'm dying to play Star Wars Galaxies though!
my friend bought it after being in the beta. he loves it. although they did cut many features. he also says the game wasnt ready for production, but sony released it anyways, just like planetside.

iJon
 
Re: not surprised

Originally posted by djwu
I'm not surprised that this is going to happen. I read an article on a Canadian subsidiary of Best Buy opening up mini-Apple stores in its establishment like CompUSA a while ago. I don't remember what the Canadian store name was though.


Sorry, I couldn't be arsed to read the entire thread (no I'm not Scottish, but I like saying "arsed" ;)), but I just want to comment on the quote above. The Canadian subsidiary is called "Futureshop", since Best Buy swooped in and bought our big Canadian Futureshop chain because they have the money. Its both unfortunate and sad.

Anyway, I've seen iMacs and iBooks at a few FutureShop's close to my house. This is a recent development, me thinks. Actually, I had always thought that they HAD Apple computers at Best Buy, and so when they bought FutureShop, they were forced to carry Apple computers even though they have nobody on staff who knows ANYTHING about Macs. Nothing. Yes, I'm serious, and no, I'm not exaggerating.

HERE'S THE SCARY PART: The old 12" 800MHz iBook with Combo Drive is currently being sold at FutureShop for $1999 (ie: $2000), but the 12" 900MHz iBook with Combo Drive is being sold on the Apple.ca website for only $1850. The $1999 price tag is the same price of the old 800MHz combo model in Canada BEFORE the update 2 months ago. The price and products have not been updated, thats all.

People in Canada are generally ignorant to the Apple world, and although the 800MHz iBook still looks great sitting beside the other laptops, its not good when major details such as the pricing is so screwed up. Canada should NOT have Apple computers sold at FutureShop or BestBuy stores (they're popping up now :rolleyes: ). We should get our own Apple Stores in Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal as a minimum!!!

Okay, I'm done.
 
Re: Re: not surprised

Originally posted by Abstract
Sorry, I couldn't be arsed to read the entire thread (no I'm not Scottish, but I like saying "arsed" ;)), but I just want to comment on the quote above. The Canadian subsidiary is called "Futureshop", since Best Buy swooped in and bought our big Canadian Futureshop chain because they have the money. Its both unfortunate and sad.

Anyway, I've seen iMacs and iBooks at a few FutureShop's close to my house. This is a recent development, me thinks. Actually, I had always thought that they HAD Apple computers at Best Buy, and so when they bought FutureShop, they were forced to carry Apple computers even though they have nobody on staff who knows ANYTHING about Macs. Nothing. Yes, I'm serious, and no, I'm not exaggerating.

HERE'S THE SCARY PART: The old 12" 800MHz iBook with Combo Drive is currently being sold at FutureShop for $1999 (ie: $2000), but the 12" 900MHz iBook with Combo Drive is being sold on the Apple.ca website for only $1850. The $1999 price tag is the same price of the old 800MHz combo model in Canada BEFORE the update 2 months ago. The price and products have not been updated, thats all.

People in Canada are generally ignorant to the Apple world, and although the 800MHz iBook still looks great sitting beside the other laptops, its not good when major details such as the pricing is so screwed up. Canada should NOT have Apple computers sold at FutureShop or BestBuy stores (they're popping up now :rolleyes: ). We should get our own Apple Stores in Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal as a minimum!!!

Okay, I'm done.
thats terrible, lol. same stuff happened with circuit city. many of those large canadian cities are so beautiful, i can only image how great a stylish apple store would look in the heart of montreal, especially over the big yellow tag.

iJon
 
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