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blizzard

I'd like to add Blizzard Software to that list of cool developers. They're shooting for simultaneous release of Warcraft III on mac and pc. Also, EV is infinitely cooler than Maelstrom (or EVO for that matter, hopefully EVN will be more of an improvement than override was.)
 
Marathon and Maelstrom

I have to agree that Maelstrom rocked. Bungie have done some amazing games in the past. What are they up to now, out of curiousity? They still pumping out the good stuff?

Anyway, I remember seeing games like maelstrom and um... other things. I really can't remember their names. Something where you shot little spears to the side to wall off sections, and something else where you had little creatures falling...

Anyway, the graphics style on those games was light years ahead of anything for PC (or anything ELSE for mac) at the time. Congratulations to them for that.

I don't know what EV or EVO or whatever is. Further information?

Finally, I have to state that I personally thought Marathon to be horrendous. I found it bland and uninspriring. It's story was weak, and the engine quite nothing. Particularly when compared to the things happening on the PC. Quake, and Duke Nukem 3D, I believe were all then or even earlier. And were both far superior games, technically, aesthetically, and in every way.

But that's just my opinion. I know a lot of Mac Users did unclean things in their pants over Marathon.
 
Re: Marathon and Maelstrom

Since Marathon, Bungies made Myth, Myth 2, Oni and are working on Halo. I think that your feelings toward Marathon are not shared with everyone. There are still Marathon fan-sites up and running (marathon.bungie.org). More than you can say about those far more superiour games you mentioned 🙂 But of course it was only your opinion and I'll respect it. Oh BTW the story in Marathon is simply the most engaging story you'll find in any game ever, hmmm... Halo might beat it though 🙂 Oh more BTW, Marathon was out before both Quake and Duke Nukem, late -94.

Originally posted by whitegold
I have to agree that Maelstrom rocked. Bungie have done some amazing games in the past. What are they up to now, out of curiousity? They still pumping out the good stuff?

Anyway, I remember seeing games like maelstrom and um... other things. I really can't remember their names. Something where you shot little spears to the side to wall off sections, and something else where you had little creatures falling...

Anyway, the graphics style on those games was light years ahead of anything for PC (or anything ELSE for mac) at the time. Congratulations to them for that.

I don't know what EV or EVO or whatever is. Further information?

Finally, I have to state that I personally thought Marathon to be horrendous. I found it bland and uninspriring. It's story was weak, and the engine quite nothing. Particularly when compared to the things happening on the PC. Quake, and Duke Nukem 3D, I believe were all then or even earlier. And were both far superior games, technically, aesthetically, and in every way.

But that's just my opinion. I know a lot of Mac Users did unclean things in their pants over Marathon.
 
Quake not still popular?!

You don't think Quake is more popular now than Marathon ever was?!

Seriously, though, you may be right about the storyline of marathon. I didn't get that much into it, and mostly I just watched a friend play.

Just as a word of advice, you may want to give Deus Ex a try, if you haven't already. Deservedly considered the best game of last year.

And yeah, thanks for the pointers on bungie's recent stuff. I forgot all that. Oni rocked! Actually, it had some flaws, but at least it was innovative and fun.
 
Games on Mac? why bother?

The only games I've play on my Mac is Deus Ex, which is a brilliant game.

Why bother paying so much to play games on a Mac? The platform is miles behind PC, which itself is lagging behind the consoles. I do all sorts of things on my Mac, but I play games on my Gamecube. Keep it simple.
 
Re: Games on Mac? why bother?

Originally posted by Timbuktu
The only games I've play on my Mac is Deus Ex, which is a brilliant game.

Why bother paying so much to play games on a Mac? The platform is miles behind PC, which itself is lagging behind the consoles. I do all sorts of things on my Mac, but I play games on my Gamecube. Keep it simple.

Well, the point of this entire thread is that with the proper programming, even a port of a PC title can be miles ahead of the PC versions. Giants for the Mac, made to support dual processors, is the most impressive demonstration of a game that pushes the boundaries of 3D gaming technology---moreso than is possible on PC.

Also--a well configured Mac or PC has far more "gaming power." from a hardware perspective, than any console. That's the undisputable part. The debatable part is whether the software for PC's/Macs is a better offering than that for consoles--which I personally believe it is (especially when it comes to multiplayer, on-line gaming, where consoles lag).


blakespot
 
Re: Re: Games on Mac? why bother?

Well said, also, the TV itself is one of the biggest worries. A TV-screen is 640*480 pixels, man this sux big time. You can get far higher resolutions than that on a computer.

Originally posted by blakespot
Originally posted by Timbuktu

Why bother paying so much to play games on a Mac? The platform is miles behind PC, which itself is lagging behind the consoles. I do all sorts of things on my Mac, but I play
Also--a well configured Mac or PC has far more "gaming power." from a hardware perspective, than any console. That's the undisputable part. The debatable part is whether the software for PC's/Macs is a better offering than that for consoles--which I personally believe it is (especially when it comes to multiplayer, on-line gaming, where consoles lag).
blakespot
 
Re: Re: Re: Games on Mac? why bother?

Originally posted by snowman
Well said, also, the TV itself is one of the biggest worries. A TV-screen is 640*480 pixels, man this sux big time. You can get far higher resolutions than that on a computer.



Also worth noting is the fact that for many types of games, FPS in particular, there is absolutely no controller better than a keyboard and a mouse. You can add a USB keyboard + mouse to the PS2 and it's supported in the PS2 version of Unreal Tournament, which is a plus, but who's got their PS2 situated to comfortably use with a keyboard and mouse? Mine sits on a shelf of my entertainment center, about 4' off the ground.

The CPU's in todays PC's and Macs are more powerful than that of any current consoles and there exists the option to use a video card that's superior to the 3D hardware of any console, such as the GeForce 3 or Radeon 8500. (Yes, the X-BOX uses a modified GeForce III (and a P3 733) but the new GeForce 3 Ti is clocked higher and will outperform the X-BOX's 3D hardware).



blakespot
 
EVO is Escape velocity Override
EV is escape velocity (prequel to EVO)
EVN is Escape velocity nova (coming soon)

These are great games made by ambrosia i think.
I was glued to them a few years back.
 
i am not too agile

being and old guy, i get my butt kicked by any game whether it is playstation, pc, or mac

graphics seem cool on all platforms but i can't find mac games at the mall or in stores but walk into almost any K-Mart and you have sega, sony, x-box, etc..
 
Yeah, that is very true jef.
U walk into any shop like electronics boutique, GAME, etc u will not find any good mac games (barring about 4)
Well im not good at most games, shoot em ups im quite bad at, but im good at most racers.
As for strategy.........well i play chess.......badly.
 
Re: Re: Re: Games on Mac? why bother?

Just exactly how much games do you guys play? From what you said, you clearly don't know a lot.

Technologically, I dare say the consoles are far superior to the the best graphics card on the market at the moment. It is useless comparing clock speeds and numbers. Consoles have an entirely different architecture. Take Nintendo Gamecube for example, they have engineered it to do one thing and one thing only, and that is to play games. On the other hand, graphics cards on PCs have to deal with many other applications. And for the price of a GeForce III, you can buy several consoles.

Gaming on a PC means a lot hazzles. It means bugs and patches. PC games crash, consoles' don't.

The keyboard and mouse control may favor FPS and RTS games, but for anything else console controls are better. Okay, Xbox's controllers are hideous, but have you hold Gamecube's controller? It melts into you hands. Console controls are much easier to pick up, and give you more freedom and immersion. You don't have to look down to check what button you're pressing.

And the TV being your worry? Huh? You don't have to plug your console to a TV, you know? You can use a monitor if you want higher resolution. Also, TVs are bigger, and consoles now support HDTV.

If you don't agree with me, fine. Most of the industry seem to see it my way. Nowadays, only about 20% of games are published for the PC format and this is dwindling. 'Gaming power' doesn't really matter. Developing a game for PC is like shoting at a moving target. And it doesn't make as much money as consoles. Consoles technology evolves periodically, providing a stable platform to make games for.

Online-gaming? That is PCs greatest strength at the moment, but the consoles are catching up.

Finally, games are supposed to be fun, not demos to show pretty graphics. Don't be graphics tarts. Have you played games like Zelda or Super Monkey Ball? Console games are more fun, end of question.


 
Just exactly how much games do you guys play? From what you said, you clearly don't know a lot.

I play a fair amount. I follow the technology more closely than I play the games (but I am a gamer, to be sure).

Technologically, I dare say the consoles are far superior to the the best graphics card on the market at the moment. It is useless comparing clock speeds and numbers. Consoles have an entirely different architecture. Take Nintendo Gamecube for example, they have engineered it to do one thing and one thing only, and that is to play games. On the other hand, graphics cards on PCs have to deal with many other applications. And for the price of a GeForce III, you can buy several consoles.

You would be mistaken, I fear. The X-Box is considered to be more powerful than the PS2, generally. The reasons for this are that the 733MHz P3 CPU is faster than the MIPS CPU core (what is it, 292MHz?) of the PS2. Also, the GeForce 3 in the X-Box is considered to be generally faster than the graphics hardware in the PS2. ArsTechnica did a nice article on this a while back. The GeForce 3 to CPU atchitecture in the X-Box is indeed enhanced to a degree over a standard PC architecture, so there is a slight speed increase there.

But look at a high end PC. A 2GHz P4 with 400MHz Rambus memory and a GeForce 3 Ti has more power in the 3D hardware and far more power in the CPU than the X-Box, PS2, etc. Same goes for a G4 DP 800 + GeForce 3, for instance.

It's impressive what console makers do with hardware at that cost--and I love my PS2. But just look at the hardware before making as statement to the effect that consoles are far superior to PC's, when they simply arent, price aside.

Also--most consoles are fixed at around 640x480 res. Some new consoles can output an anamorphic signal and show an added resolution that way, but that's about it. I am aware that the PS2, for instance, is capable of much higher resolutions than std TV res, but nothing supports it. Meanwhile, I am playing Alice, Quake 3, and UT at 1280x1024 on a clear 19" CRT. With very high framerates.

Finally, games are supposed to be fun, not demos to show pretty graphics. Don't be graphics tarts. Have you played games like Zelda or Super Monkey Ball? Console games are more fun, end of question.

Well, it's a matter of opinion. I happen to agree with you to a degree. Not necessarily grouping these types of games into "console" games but just "simpler" games that aren't 3D demos, as you say. This is why I keep a few Amigas and an Apple IIgs on my desks. There's some old classics to be enjoyed therein.


blakespot
 
timbuktu i hate you GIMME A GAMECUBE NOW!!!! D': /me cries.
anyways i want i want i want i shell out money for nintendo anyday. unless its virtual boy
 
yikes

and someone mentioned that me living on macrumors was a waste of time

...actually, the reason i don't take up games is the same reason i never took up smoking...i mean, imagine actually knowing more than most highly paid techs and being destitute because you buy games too much

man, if the gamers i knew became techs and engineers, we would already have the G5 by now
 
I get you, blakespot. I'm sorry for being rude saying that you know nothing about games. I was a bit carried away when I said consoles are superior, but I still think comparing numbers are useless without looking at the whole picture. IBM actually lowered the clock-speed of PowerPC CPU 'Gekko' in Gamecube so that it would integrate better with the rest of the system and increase performance.

PCs have surpassed consoles in power years ago and will do so again with the new consoles in no time. However, the ever increasing power of the PCs is really a problem, not an advantage. You're always looking at the high-end PCs and Macs, but in reality how many people own those machines? The diversity in specs is so great in the PCs, it is impossible for developers to optimise their games for any one platform. How many people own a Geforce III? The point is, not matter how large a PC's 'gaming power', a game will never take full advantage of it. Maybe that is why some ports for Macs can be superior to their PC originals; Macs present a narrower spectrum to target.

Xbox, coming out later this month, is the result of the problems in PC gaming. It is undeniable that games are important for PCs. They present one of the few urges for users to upgrade their PCs in a saturated market. But there are less and less games coming out for the platform, which is a point of concern. Many think that Xbox is a move by Microsoft to counter this trend. They are not only trying to invade the living room. Xbox, really, is just a high-end PC wrapped in a different package. By encouraging developers to make games for Xbox under the DirectX architecture, Microsoft is hope that at least some of the games will spill onto the PC platform as well.

Coming back to Macs. I am optimistic with the Mac gaming scene. Apple claims that OS X boost games performance by 20% due to improvements in OpenGL graphics standard. 10.1 ships with version 1.2.1. The success of DriectX placed a question mark over the future of OpenGL, but the specs of OpenGL 1.3 seems to have lifted that, matching DirectX 8 and 8.1 in virtually every department. With nVidia and ATI fully supporting the format, Apple's claims seems to be quite realistic. Then there is John Carmack - father of id and one of the main proponents of OpenGL. We can look for to the graphical splendors from the likes of Doom 3.

I am sure that with OS X, Macs are more than capable of keeping up with PC's 'gaming power', and we are sure to see the best of the PC games ported to Mac. My question is: is that enough? With the PC ailing as a gaming platform, is it enough for Macs just to keep up with it? Games are an intergral part of the so-called 'digital hub' of Apple's. However, the market is increasingly dominated by dedicated consoles, which makes me wonder whether the convergence Apple is planning will actually work. The market seems to be opting for cheaper, more specialised devices over multi-purpose machines. I'm actually hoping to see some of the console games coming for Mac. With Gamecube using the IBM PowerPC CPU and the OpenGL architecture, it shares more similarities with Mac than you might have expected. An alliance between Apple and Nintendo, two of my favourite companies? Impossible, I know, but I can always dream.
 
I dream of the same thing, it would be very beneficial for apple to have a few nintendo titles on the mac.
Anyway, i have played on a PS2 and also on a 1.4Ghz athlon system with the Geforce 3 running at 75% speed of what it should (had trouble installing, sorted out now) and i can tell you that the PC just blows it away.
Having said that, the PC cost around £1000.
 
All platforms (every console, and both mac and PC) has it's pluses and minuses.

Playstation 2, Mac, PC, Gamecube, Xbox... all are made with market forces and a balance of technology to cost.

Not so much with Macs and PCs. They're upgradable.

In my personal experience (and I've had a lot) consoles always represent the very highest in gaming (particularly in graphics). When first screenshots are shown, the consoles are so far beyond PCs it's startling. By the time of their Japanese launch they're still amazing. A few months after the US launch, though, the PC standard has just raised to a point when they're not much below. A few months (6 or so) later, and the console is starting to suffer from it's static configuration.

That is inevitable. Computers (including Macs) are a constantly changing level. Consoles pop themselves in at certain point, and ride there until the next console ups the ante.

As for displaying on TVs vs Monitors, I'm undecided. Resolution isn't everything. I would rather a 640x480 image that's well antialiased than a 800x600 image that looks blocky and jaggie. (though resolutions above that it matters much less).

Another factor is that with the high end stuff (pentium 4 and a GeForce 3 titanium) you're putting all the power into just making the picture a higher resolution. Drawing more pixels. NOT more polygons. Not more depth.

Consoles are limited to that 640x480 (i'm ignoring the fact that thye can now output to higher res, because it's convenient). Because of that they are able to put more and more power into detail and polygons. Take a look at some of the environments in PC games, and they're often quite low-poly. High res, but low poly.

Resolution isn't everything. Don't get me wrong. All things being equal, if you're getting a framerate of 150fps anyway, what the hell, bump up the res. But that's surely not the end to want. More detail, more depth, more realism. NOT more pixels.

Just my opinion.
 
software not hardware

another factor here I forgot to mention is that the hardware is largely irrelevant.

I've seen a lot of dreamcast games that look far better than anything on PS2.

I've played playstation games that are more fun that those on PC.

Personally, I'm not buying a Gamecube because of it's CPU or it's overall performance. I'm buying it for Luigi's Mansion, Super Monkey Ball, and Pimkin.
 
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