Best HDR/DolbyVision TV for Apple TV 4K

[upandown]

No im sorry but you need to get educated, ALL OLEDS stutter due to the instant response time on 24p content. Ive demoed the LG C9 multiple times and it stutters. Some people are less sensitive than others to seeing it but its is certainly there. Burn In is still a thing even on the C9 however it is less likely than older models, keeping it on low brightness can help avoid it.

LG B6 vs C9 - Motion handling/stutter

Hello Picking up a 65C9 from Richer Sounds later today. I currently have a 65B6 from 2016. My one biggest issue with the B6 (and it's still very minor) is that on 24fps movies with slow panning shots there will be some rare scenes where you can see the obviously stutter. Without factoring in...

www.avforums.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED/comments/dmhty0

https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED/comments/8foms9

Panasonic GZ1000 and stutter - TVs

forums.whirlpool.net.au

Your loss. Don’t ruin it for everyone else.

I’m already aware of how the technology works. No tv is perfect. Each technology takes time to adjust to, but you do adjust like with anything. LCDs have many more trade offs and are inferior in every way.

Again, I actually own the tv.

 

[torana355]

Your loss. Don’t ruin it for everyone else.

I'm not ruining anything, im presenting the facts, not a bias opinion. Let me be clear my next TV will be an OLED, they are just not there quite yet, good news is the LG C10 looks to have 120hz Black frame insertion which should help combat the stutter without introducing artifacts.
[automerge]1583116113[/automerge]

I’m already aware of how the technology works. No tv is perfect. Each technology takes time to adjust to, but you do adjust like with anything. LCDs have many more trade offs and are inferior in every way.

Well you say you know how the tech works but you claimed you don't have any stutter which is just wrong, so i'm not so sure you understand as well as you think you do. I agree with your second point, no tv is perfect and i think the positives of OLED far outweigh the negatives. Oh and btw LCD is not inferior when it comes to peak brightness, they wipe the floor with OLED in that regard. Once again my next Tv will be an OLED

 

[upandown]

I'm not ruining anything, im presenting the facts, not a bias opinion. Let me be clear my next TV will be an OLED, they are just not there quite yet, good news is the LG C10 looks to have 120hz Black frame insertion which should help combat the stutter without introducing artifacts.
[automerge]1583116113[/automerge]


Well you say you know how the tech works but you claimed you don't have any stutter which is just wrong, so i'm not so sure you understand as well as you think you do. I agree with your second point, no tv is perfect and i think the positives of OLED far outweigh the negatives. Oh and btw LCD is not inferior when it comes to peak brightness, they wipe the floor with OLED in that regard. Once again my next Tv will be an OLED

Because I don’t see stutter doesn’t mean I don’t know how it works. It means I don’t see stutter. Although it could be present, what’s on paper shouldn’t be someone’s focus. It’s what you actually perceive.

I love hearing the nit argument. And what does every comparison conclude when a super bright LCD is next to an OLED? Answer: Even though the OLED on paper is less bright, the OLED appears brighter and more impactful with better contrast.

 

[torana355]

Because I don’t see stutter doesn’t mean I don’t know how it works. It means I don’t see stutter. Although it could be present, what’s on paper shouldn’t be someone’s focus. It’s what you actually perceive.

I love hearing the nit argument. And what does every comparison conclude when a super bright LCD is next to an OLED? Answer: Even though the OLED on paper is less bright, the OLED appears brighter and more impactful with better contrast.

I agree 100 percent.

 

[Macalicious2011]

Even though the OLED on paper is less bright, the OLED appears brighter and more impactful with better contrast.

I can attest to this.

This past weekend I stood 3,5m/11.5ft(My viewing distance at home) away from an 65inch LG C9 and a 75inch QLED. Although the size of the QLED made it more immersive, the solidity of the colours on the OLED the slightly smaller screen size, made it easier and less straining TV to watch.

No im sorry but you need to get educated, ALL OLEDS stutter due to the instant response time on 24p content. Ive demoed the LG C9 multiple times and it stutters. Some people are less sensitive than others to seeing it but its is certainly there. Burn In is still a thing even on the C9 however it is less likely than older models, keeping it on low brightness can help avoid it.

Is the stutter not the result of the TV and the content source not playing nicely together?

My advice, save up an extra month or two's salary and go for an LG OLED and simply enjoy what you have. That's what we did and I can forget about it and move on with the exciting things in life like travel, gym, friends, track running and the great outdoors!

That makes sense. Even if the TV will be expensive, the cost per use over 5-10 years will be low. The next gen Xbox or Playstation will be significantly more expensive per use as I will be the only one in the house playing it.

 

[torana355]

Is the stutter not the result of the TV and the content source not playing nicely together?

Correct, Oleds have amazing response times under 1ms, which is perfect for high framerate sources and especially gaming. The issue is the majority of content we consume is 24fps, almost all movies and TV shows are in this format. The instantaneous response time of OLEDs does not play well with such a low frame rate and causes a stuttering effect especially on slow panning shots.

Lcd has a natural motion blur effect due to the slower response times which hides the stuttering. The solution for OLED is interpolation or black frame insertion, problem is LG is notoriously bad at this. I'm hoping the LG C10 will go someway to fixing this as I hate the crappy blacks on LCDs and the blooming that Full array sets have. It's hard to watch my Sony Led TV after using my Note 10 with its amazing oled screen all day.

 

[phrehdd]

No im sorry but you need to get educated, ALL OLEDS stutter due to the instant response time on 24p content. Ive demoed the LG C9 multiple times and it stutters. Some people are less sensitive than others to seeing it but its is certainly there. Burn In is still a thing even on the C9 however it is less likely than older models, keeping it on low brightness can help avoid it.

Feel free to check out and look at the stutter score and the below links showing discssion on the subject https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c9-oled View attachment 896995

LG B6 vs C9 - Motion handling/stutter

Hello Picking up a 65C9 from Richer Sounds later today. I currently have a 65B6 from 2016. My one biggest issue with the B6 (and it's still very minor) is that on 24fps movies with slow panning shots there will be some rare scenes where you can see the obviously stutter. Without factoring in...

www.avforums.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED/comments/dmhty0

https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED/comments/8foms9

Panasonic GZ1000 and stutter - TVs

forums.whirlpool.net.au

I am late to this game and simply asking and referencing my 'yesterday's knowledge.' Is there no pull down you can use for 24 frame media that would ease up this problem? While NVidia shield may or may not have specifically a means to automatically change frame rate perhaps items such as PLEX or Kodi do for your own media files. For me, while I can understand the clip like stutter you mention I find that soap opera effect for me is far far worse and honestly find its only good for sports. For movies, it truly looks (to me) lame. While 4k is wonderful, I loved the days when Pioneer Kuro ruled over all plasma and LCD screens.

 

[torana355]

I am late to this game and simply asking and referencing my 'yesterday's knowledge.' Is there no pull down you can use for 24 frame media that would ease up this problem? While NVidia shield may or may not have specifically a means to automatically change frame rate perhaps items such as PLEX or Kodi do for your own media files. For me, while I can understand the clip like stutter you mention I find that soap opera effect for me is far far worse and honestly find its only good for sports. For movies, it truly looks (to me) lame. While 4k is wonderful, I loved the days when Pioneer Kuro ruled over all plasma and LCD screens.

Pull down is to fix judder which is different to stutter. To fix stutter you either need to increase the framerate by using interpolation which introduces artifacts and soap opera effect, or use black frame insertation which causes flicker and a significant decrease in screen brightness.

Plasmas are still king when it comes to motion as they use a different technique to LCD and OLED called impulse where each frame fades to black before displaying the next frame, OLED and lcd use sample and hold which keeps the same frame on till the next is displayed. The saving grace for lcd is the slower response time gives a natural motion blur which covers up 24p stutter.

On OLED the only way to make it better brings either soap opera effect, artifacts or flicker, pick your poison.

 

[brynsmith23]

I'd personally wait another year, and i'd be looking at a 75 inch over the 65 inch.

i'm hoping to upgrade my 2018 samsung 82 inch to something around the same size or larger, but it has to have Dolby Vision, i'm still waiting for HDR10+ content

So i'll won't be getting another Samsung, my Denon AV set up does 4k dolby vision, as well as my 4k Apple TV, my AV weakness at the moment is no Dolby Vision

Hopefully we see the prices come down a little more on quality larger panel sizes next year and tv with all the HDMI 2.1 specs instead of later firmware updates that may or may not come.

 

[Macalicious2011]

I'd personally wait another year, and i'd be looking at a 75 inch over the 65 inch.

i'm hoping to upgrade my 2018 samsung 82 inch to something around the same size or larger, but it has to have Dolby Vision, i'm still waiting for HDR10+ content

So i'll won't be getting another Samsung, my Denon AV set up does 4k dolby vision, as well as my 4k Apple TV, my AV weakness at the moment is no Dolby Vision

Hopefully we see the prices come down a little more on quality larger panel sizes next year and tv with all the HDMI 2.1 specs instead of later firmware updates that may or may not come.

If you are talking about OLED panels, they will not be cheaper in 12 months.

OLED TVs remain as expensive, compared with LCD, as they were 5 years ago. A 65 inch C9 cost £1,900 while the 77 inch version is £5,900. A QLED 75 inch TV is £1,600. However many Samsung TVs don't support Dolby Vision. It's mainly gaming consoles that support HDR10.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

No im sorry but you need to get educated, ALL OLEDS stutter due to the instant response time on 24p content. Ive demoed the LG C9 multiple times and it stutters. Some people are less sensitive than others to seeing it but its is certainly there. Burn In is still a thing even on the C9 however it is less likely than older models, keeping it on low brightness can help avoid it.

Feel free to check out and look at the stutter score and the below links showing discssion on the subject https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c9-oled View attachment 896995

LG B6 vs C9 - Motion handling/stutter

Hello Picking up a 65C9 from Richer Sounds later today. I currently have a 65B6 from 2016. My one biggest issue with the B6 (and it's still very minor) is that on 24fps movies with slow panning shots there will be some rare scenes where you can see the obviously stutter. Without factoring in...

www.avforums.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED/comments/dmhty0

https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED/comments/8foms9

Panasonic GZ1000 and stutter - TVs

forums.whirlpool.net.au

Do you own one yourself?
Live with one and make your own decisions. 7 billion people in the world and there is always 10 people that flood forums with crazy complaints. Just look at MacRumours under iPhone or AirPods - the same guys changing their screens 7+ times or complaining about imaginary faults of the AirPods Pro whilst AirPods sold 60 million pairs last year.
Over reading on the internet is like trying to self diagnose ones medical self by reading symptoms on the internet!!!! You may have a 2 day cold but the internet will tell you that you are dying.
Same with OLED burn in.

Stop reading negativity and enjoy what your heart tells you to enjoy!

There will always be one person complaining. To me the LG OLED is perfect, along with the MacBook Pro, Apple TV 4K and iPhone 11 Pro - but read a forum and someone will be finding fault with them and dissing them.
Life is far far far too short for people like that. Move on!
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Yeah no dude. Wrong on all counts. You sound like you decided to believe the fear that’s spread throughout the internet. Which is unfortunate.

I have a C9 and it handles all frame rates beautifully with zero stutter. You’re claim stating otherwise sounds like you don’t own the TV. And that’s with all of the processing turned off. Although burn-in is possible, it’s a defect of the panel and will rear its head early in its life. There is more than enough testing that can be found on YouTube and all over the internet to show the C8 and C9 do not have a burn in problem. With HEAVY gaming. And LG DOES cover burn in with the factory warranty now. Yes there was an issue in the early generations but I follow a forum and have read over 13,000 posts talking about the C9 alone, included with quite a few professional calibrators who post regularly. There is NOT a burn in problem.

You can believe the fear in life or make an informed decision on you’re own. You’re choice. Maybe head to a forum that has better information than this one.. (this is not directed to torana355, but anyone who’s looking at OLED)

Its simple. A current gen OLED tv is revolutionary and if you go LCD, you’re missing out. Period.

I agree 100%.
It's the people that don't own OLED TVs that make these assumptions.

For TV, OLED is the ONLY option.
Not convinced that LCD was ever suited to large TV. We should really move on from it and leave it with old waxy plasma!

 

[torana355]

Do you own one yourself?
Live with one and make your own decisions. 7 billion people in the world and there is always 10 people that flood forums with crazy complaints. Just look at MacRumours under iPhone or AirPods - the same guys changing their screens 7+ times or complaining about imaginary faults of the AirPods Pro whilst AirPods sold 60 million pairs last year.
Over reading on the internet is like trying to self diagnose ones medical self by reading symptoms on the internet!!!! You may have a 2 day cold but the internet will tell you that you are dying.
Same with OLED burn in.

Stop reading negativity and enjoy what your heart tells you to enjoy!

There will always be one person complaining. To me the LG OLED is perfect, along with the MacBook Pro, Apple TV 4K and iPhone 11 Pro - but read a forum and someone will be finding fault with them and dissing them.
Life is far far far too short for people like that. Move on!
[automerge]1583169895[/automerge]


I agree 100%.
It's the people that don't own OLED TVs that make these assumptions.

For TV, OLED is the ONLY option.
Not convinced that LCD was ever suited to large TV. We should really move on from it and leave it with old waxy plasma!

Audiovisual is my hobby, I love doing my research and knowing I've spent my money on something that will give me great performance. I'm not going to ignore a $2500 TV that stutters, I have demoed the LG C9 and even the Sony and Panasonic Oleds and I've seen the stutter myself, it's horrible, it's not like I'm just reading some negative posts on the internet lol. If you enjoy your TV then great, I'm happy for you!

 

[HDFan]

If you are talking about OLED panels, they will not be cheaper in 12 months.

OLED TVs remain as expensive, compared with LCD, as they were 5 years ago.

OLED prices have consistently dropped each year. When introduced they had 5 digit prices. Last years 65" model is now selling at close to 50% of the original price, which is even better than the Black Friday price last year.

 

[torana355]

OLED prices have consistently dropped each year. When introduced they had 5 digit prices. Last years 65" model is now selling at close to 50% of the original price, which is even better than the Black Friday price last year.

View attachment 897092

Thing is LCD prices have dropped as well. My Sony W900a 55" cost me 4k 7 years ago, i can now get the equivalent tv for half the price, all tvs have dropped in price.

 

[phrehdd]

Pull down is to fix judder which is different to stutter. To fix stutter you either need to increase the framerate by using interpolation which introduces artifacts and soap opera effect, or use black frame insertation which causes flicker and a significant decrease in screen brightness.

Plasmas are still king when it comes to motion as they use a different technique to LCD and OLED called impulse where each frame fades to black before displaying the next frame, OLED and lcd use sample and hold which keeps the same frame on till the next is displayed. The saving grace for lcd is the slower response time gives a natural motion blur which covers up 24p stutter.

On OLED the only way to make it better brings either soap opera effect, artifacts or flicker, pick your poison.

Perhaps apples and oranges (if you are inclined, please explain to me) -
I use a Benq 4k 27" monitor that has HDR emulation. I attach to it a computer and also an NVidia Shield TV. From the NVidia Shield, I can play immediate files (4k uhd disc quality) and streaming 4k without any of what you mention above. I use the Kodi app for the files and Vudu, Amazon, Movies Anywhere apps for streaming. Btw, I have left my Panasonic VT50 65" plasma in storage for a long long while. Think anyone would be interested in well kept TV of this sort?

 

[torana355]

Perhaps apples and oranges (if you are inclined, please explain to me) -
I use a Benq 4k 27" monitor that has HDR emulation. I attach to it a computer and also an NVidia Shield TV. From the NVidia Shield, I can play immediate files (4k uhd disc quality) and streaming 4k without any of what you mention above. I use the Kodi app for the files and Vudu, Amazon, Movies Anywhere apps for streaming. Btw, I have left my Panasonic VT50 65" plasma in storage for a long long while. Think anyone would be interested in well kept TV of this sort?

Sure that's because your monitor is an LCD panel. LCD has a natural motion blur that hides 24p stutter. Its OLEDs that really suffer from stutter and very high end LCD's with the faster response times. Also some people don't notice stutter as much as others, its a bit like the first gen retina MacBook Pros, they dropped frames and it stood out to me but others never noticed it.

 

[brynsmith23]

If you are talking about OLED panels, they will not be cheaper in 12 months.

OLED TVs remain as expensive, compared with LCD, as they were 5 years ago. A 65 inch C9 cost £1,900 while the 77 inch version is £5,900. A QLED 75 inch TV is £1,600. However many Samsung TVs don't support Dolby Vision. It's mainly gaming consoles that support HDR10.

No i don't see OLED prices coming down at all in the larger sizes, I was only talking about larger sized LED TV, as the OP was talking about pairing it with a gaming machine.

I game a lot, so i ruled out OLED, due to burn in, although i think they are a great TV to watch.

As the OP is looking at the ATV to watch streaming and movies, i'd suggest a Dolby Vision capable TV, to add to the viewing experience

Im still waiting for HDR10+ viewing content with my Samsung.

I still think its worth waiting until next year for a new TV with full HDMI 2.1, if you want to make the most of the newer Apple TV that is due to be released sometime this year.

that higher bandwidth from full 2.1 will allows a better 4K frame rate for gaming and Apple TV viewing

 

[phrehdd]

Sure that's because your monitor is an LCD panel. LCD has a natural motion blur that hides 24p stutter. Its OLEDs that really suffer from stutter and very high end LCD's with the faster response times. Also some people don't notice stutter as much as others, its a bit like the first gen retina MacBook Pros, they dropped frames and it stood out to me but others never noticed it.

Thanks for reminding/clarifying that the difference remains with OLED vs LCD. If I may ask, Samsung's offering Qwhatever does it fair better than OLED say of LG?

 

[torana355]

Thanks for reminding/clarifying that the difference remains with OLED vs LCD. If I may ask, Samsung's offering Qwhatever does it fair better than OLED say of LG?

QLED from Samsung is LCD technology, it's not OLED as the misleading name may have you believe.

 

[phrehdd]

QLED from Samsung is LCD technology, it's not OLED as the misleading name may have you believe.

So it is not problematic with 24p yet some of their TVs rate quite well on image quality. For now, would it be fair to say this might be a better compromise than say OLED and its challenges??

 

[torana355]

So it is not problematic with 24p yet some of their TVs rate quite well on image quality. For now, would it be fair to say this might be a better compromise than say OLED and its challenges??

No i would say the positives of OLED outweigh any of the negatives by far. The exception is if you are going to have the tv in a very well lit room with a lot of windows and reflections, in that case i think LCD is the better option. Also if you watch a lot of the same content with static logos etc, for example watching CNN all the time would eventually lead to Burn in, with OLED you need to vary your content a little.

Im still using a 1080p Sony LCD TV as i refuse to buy another LCD TV due to the crappy blacks and imo OLEDS are not quite there yet, however i think the LG C10 could very well be the one

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

No i would say the positives of OLED outweigh any of the negatives by far. The exception is if you are going to have the tv in a very well lit room with a lot of windows and reflections, in that case i think LCD is the better option. Also if you watch a lot of the same content with static logos etc, for example watching CNN all the time would eventually lead to Burn in, with OLED you need to vary your content a little.

Im still using a 1080p Sony LCD TV as i refuse to buy another LCD TV due to the crappy blacks and imo OLEDS are not quite there yet, however i think the LG C10 could very well be the one

Your worries and fears mean that you are missing out on life!
Everything that you quote is simply fear mongering from a few old dinosaurs on certain forums.

It reminds me of the old TV channels in the UK were the news channels fill old minds with doom and gloom. They talk about the cora virus for 20 minutes+ and terrify their old viewers - I on the other hand read the Independent reports online in 10 seconds and move on!

You've missed out - we've had 2.5 years of enjoyment from our LG B7 OLED and not a single problem or annoyance that you mention.

Try something for yourself and enjoy it. And don't regurgitate the absolute rubbish that dinosaurs seem to come out with!!!

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

If you are talking about OLED panels, they will not be cheaper in 12 months.

OLED TVs remain as expensive, compared with LCD, as they were 5 years ago. A 65 inch C9 cost £1,900 while the 77 inch version is £5,900. A QLED 75 inch TV is £1,600. However many Samsung TVs don't support Dolby Vision. It's mainly gaming consoles that support HDR10.

Here's the new 2020 LG European pricing. Cheaper than last years 9 range!!!!!!!!!

LG announces EU pricing & availability for 2020 4K OLED TVs

48

www.flatpanelshd.com

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

2019 LG 65" Wallpaper TV is currently £3500 at John Lewis. Insane value when a few months ago, it was priced at £7000.

LG OLED65W9PLA (2019) SIGNATURE OLED HDR 4K Ultra HD Smart TV, 65" with Freeview Play/Freesat HD, Picture-On-Wall Design & Dolby Atmos Sound Base Unit, Ultra HD Certified, Black

Buy LG OLED65W9PLA (2019) SIGNATURE OLED HDR 4K Ultra HD Smart TV, 65" with Freeview Play/Freesat HD, Picture-On-Wall Design & Dolby Atmos Sound Base Unit, Ultra HD Certified, Black from our View all TVs range at John Lewis & Partners. Free Delivery on orders over £50.

www.johnlewis.com

 

[torana355]

Your worries and fears mean that you are missing out on life!
Everything that you quote is simply fear mongering from a few old dinosaurs on certain forums.

It reminds me of the old TV channels in the UK were the news channels fill old minds with doom and gloom. They talk about the cora virus for 20 minutes+ and terrify their old viewers - I on the other hand read the Independent reports online in 10 seconds and move on!

You've missed out - we've had 2.5 years of enjoyment from our LG B7 OLED and not a single problem or annoyance that you mention.

Try something for yourself and enjoy it. And don't regurgitate the absolute rubbish that dinosaurs seem to come out with!!!

No, I just don't have money to throw around on things that don't meet my criteria. Nothing to do with fear mongering. I think you are just a little triggered as someone is pointing out serious flaws with a product you have spent money on, it's the natural reaction so all good. I'm quite sensitive to dropped frames and stutter so I made the decision to wait for the C10, if you are happy with your TV then that's awesome, enjoy!