Better build quality worth the $$$?

[IllIllIll]

Are you planning to drink coffee or pop soda around your laptop? and take it to cafe or fast food resturants? If so, don't bother buying a MacBook

Yeah! Heaven forbid you take a LAPTOP out of the house and actually utilize its portability, or take it to a Starbucks to have some coffee and use their free wifi! What in the world are you people thinking???

Do you drop your laptop more than once? If so don't even think about getting one either.

...Because everybody plans to drop a laptop.

Do you always curse at your laptop if it did something wrong for no apparent reasons? MacBook is not for you.

Weaksauce.

 

[thekev]

Are you planning to drink coffee or pop soda around your laptop?

You know using a keyboard cover of some kind would also take care of the problem. You just have to make sure to wipe it down if anything gets on there to prevent it from transferring to the display. It's also not that difficult to clean a display if you're gentle.

 

[gngan]

That's like asking "Why would anyone drop their laptop?"

Of course no one sits on their laptop intentionally. Accidents happen.

This kind of accidents are unacceptable. I never once dropped my laptop or sat on one.

 

[TheJing]

This kind of accidents are unacceptable. I never once dropped my laptop or sat on one.

I don't think you know what the word "accident" means.

 

[takeshi74]

Better build quality worth the $$$?

It is IMO but, as is the case with any question of worth regardless of topic, it's a highly subjective matter. I can't tell you if you'll find it worth it or not. That's for you to determine.

I never once dropped my laptop or sat on one.

I don't think you know what the word "accident" means.

+1 It's amazing how prevalent this line of thinking is on different forum sites. "I've never had an accident so it's completely unexcusable that anyone would ever have one". Brilliant! Why didn't anyone else think of this? We should put people like that in charge of automotive safety and all our problems with auto accidents would be instantly solved!

It's just a variation of the ubiquitous "Never happens to me so it never happens to anyone else" meme.

 

[Badrottie]

Yeah! Heaven forbid you take a LAPTOP out of the house and actually utilize its portability, or take it to a Starbucks to have some coffee and use their free wifi! What in the world are you people thinking???


...Because everybody plans to drop a laptop.


Weaksauce.

Yeah sure you will not ask Apple store to fix spilled coffee on your laptop! I know Apple store will offer you a free StarBuck card if you spilled it on your laptop.

 

[IllIllIll]

Yeah sure you will not ask Apple store to fix spilled coffee on your laptop! I know Apple store will offer you a free StarBuck card if you spilled it on your laptop.

Nobody is saying that Apple should repair a MBP for free when the problem was the owner's fault. But sitting on the opposite end of the spectrum isn't the answer either.

Do you store a car in the garage and never drive it because you're afraid of rock chips and potholes?

 

[vitzr]

I'm in need of some advice regarding build quality/longevity of the Macbook Pro.

I know people love their Apple products, but I assumed it was more of a style issue. Recently, though, a friend kept going on and on about the better build quality and longevity of her Macbook Pro.

My question is - really? I am looking for a laptop that will stand up to frequent use, being carried around a lot, sometimes being sat on by cats, etc.

I can answer that for you. I've been using both a MacBook Pro and a ThinkPad T series, concurrently for work for years. Each of them are excellent premium laptops.

When I buy a new laptop I give the MacBook Pro or ThinkPad to my wife, the other one goes to another family member, since I buy new models of each every year.

While they are close in durability, the advantage of the ThinkPad is it doesn't dent like the aluminum MacBook. Nor does it scratch like the MacBook.

Quality of assembly, fit and finish is equal. Long term durability the ThinkPads wins since it has a proper cooling system with lots of vents in the case and dual fans. This insures the hot air can easily be exhausted through the vents.

The MacBook has a small slit in the back, and uses the aluminum housing to help dissipate the heat. This causes the MacBook to run much warmer. Heat being the enemy of computers, the logic board tends to fail. No such issue exists with the cool running ThinkPad.

If the Mac reaches the limits of acceptable temps it shuts down. The ThinkPad doesn't have to resort to this limitation. It just works. Hour after hour with no overheating or shutting down.

Lastly the price. On average I pay $1,000 more for a 15" MacBook Pro, than I do for a ThinkPad of identical configuration.

The price premium is normal. It's how Apple became so cash rich, they simply increase the price for the companies gain.

 

[lacoste-rocker]

I think my MacBook Pro is pretty darn durable but I have never spilled milk on mine though.
Just my opinion I think the mbp is pretty good with durability .

 

[grahamnp]

Macs are made of nice materials and pretty well put together but they are not "tough". If you want something to chuck around, a Mac isn't it.

 

[Zendokan]

To the OP:

How will you use your notebook (laptop)?
What is your overall budget for hardware?

The reason that I ask is that a lot of persons still mismatch their “PC/Mac” needs with the “PC/Mac” system that they buy.
There’s a reason that desktops, notebooks, netbooks and tablets exist besides eachother, so bring your “PC/Mac” usage in card and from that decide which system(s) you need.
In the long run this will be more favorable for you.

Example 1:
As an IT software tester, I need a notebook for work, in this case my company provides me with a nice Dell laptop for that. Since I’m a consultant, sometimes the customer provides for a system at his company (desktop or notebook).
My notebook is just a working tool, that I carry around to my work, I’ll watch movies on it when I’m in the train and when I’m home it stands on my desk in my office/study/bureau (however my workroom is called).
That’s the function of a professional notebook.

When the customer provides for a system at work, I’m not going to carry my own notebook around, since I don’t need it. Yet I want to pass the time when I’m in the train, so I use my iPad to do some browsing and watching movies.

At home I’ve got my own desktop (which overall has got a better durability than a notebook), to watch movies, do some internet browsing, play my music, do some photo and movie editing, write an occasional document or do some “homebudget” calculations in a spreadsheet. 99,9% of the time that system would not be moved from its original place, even if it could be moved easy around. That’s the function of my iMac.

In my usage, I don’t need a netbook (MBA), because all my ICT usage is completely covered by my iMac, Dell notebook and iPad.

Example 2:
My friend of mine is a high school teacher, who has a desktop provided by the school, so he doesn’t need a professional notebook.
At home he has also an iMac to do the same things as I do on my iMac.
He drives to school, so using an iPad is out of the question to pass the time in the car, but from time to time he needs to do some minor typing and spreadsheeting at the meetings of the sports club where he’s the vice-president of, so he only needs a small portable netbook, that’s why he bought himself a MBA.


Most of the people buy one system, while they really need another system. Each one has its own specific positive and negative points.
- Desktop systems: powerful, durable, but not portable
- Notebooks: powerful, movable, but less durable
- Netbooks: light usage, portable, but less durable
- Tablets: light usage, very portable, and probably more durable than a netbook, but less than a desktop
-
If you knew how many people that I know that have bought “desktop replacing” notebooks that always stay on the same place in home, you would be surprised.

Always using some explanation that if you really think about just doesn’t make sense:
-“I can watch movies when I’m traveling”: “desktop replacing” notebooks aren’t really portable, so after doing that a few times, it will stay home.
- “In the summer, I can work in the garden”: Please, try to work on a sunny day, while sitting in your garden (which means that it’s either weekend or a day off) and see how much “work” you can do. On a sunny day in the garden, light your bbq, read a magazine while basking in the sun or even better go outside for a walk or a bike ride.
-“it’s portable, so I can work from everywhere in the house”: If you have to use it several hours in a row, you need a decent chair and holding a netbook for so long on your legs isn’t a good idea (why do you think that there was a name change from laptop to notebook?). That’s the reason why most “desktop replacing” notebooks stay their complete lifetime in one place, mostly a desk in the study.

So like I said before, see how you use your ICT system and then choose the hardware that suits you the best.

 

[harcosparky]

I don't think you know what the word "accident" means.

To me an "accident" is an intentional action resulting in unintended consequences.

Consider that definition, then consider someone sitting on ANYTHING.

 

[IllIllIll]

To me an "accident" is an intentional action resulting in unintended consequences.

Consider that definition, then consider someone sitting on ANYTHING.

That definition is too limiting and inaccurate. A consequence can result from either an intended or unintended action. Consider something falling off a shelf and hitting your MBP.

Additionally, "consequences" are not intended or unintended, they result from an action. Whether they are expected or unexpected is a different story.

 

[Wattser93]

This line of reasoning doesn't work anymore. Metal is not necessarily better than plastic in all situations.

For example, the new Boeing 787 Dreamliner is primarily made of composite materials and not aluminum, which leads to lighter weight, better strength, and improved fuel efficiency. Quite a few high-end sportscars have carbon fiber subframes and body panels, for light weight and greater strength than steel. Similarly, if you drop a MBP or it is struck by a blunt object, the aluminum case will bend, warp, or dent while a similar size/weight laptop made of plastic might not.

Saturns are plastic, Le Mans cars are carbon fiber, they're far from the same. Carbon fiber is in a far different league. Cheapie PC laptops use plastic, not carbon fiber, so your point is moot. Would you rather dent your MBP or have your plastic cheapie laptop break? Aluminum doesn't stress fracture like plastic does.

Not only that, but Lenovos actually have built-in liquid channels and drains to channel any fluids out of the laptop if a spill occurs. There are quite a few threads on this forum alone with horror stories about liquid spills killing MBPs.

Lenovos are business oriented machines. Hummer H1s have water channels in their interior to flush the water out, does that mean that a Corvette needs them? No, because they're different vehicles for different applications. Don't spill on your MBP, it's not that hard. I've yet to have a single electronic item fail in my life because of water damage, and I've owned a handful of cell phones, iPods, etc... A little bit of care goes a long ways. Yes, accidents happen, but if spilling water on your laptop is a concern, you should buy a Thinkpad instead of a MBP.

Additionally, the logic board on the new Droid RAZR Android phone is coated with a hydrophobic compound that resists moisture and corrosion, and the caseback is made from Kevlar. Yet another example where Apple's design team could take a lesson.

This one I can agree with. Apple's line of design is minimalism, it goes against their grain to start using Kevlar in their designs. I think they should go to a carbon fiber chassis, or back to aluminum, but that's just my opinion. I'm not a fan of having glass on the back of a phone. When I'm working during the summer, my phone gets sweaty, in the winter it gets wet from the occasional rain and snow, and a water resistant coating on the board would be nice. I can't imagine it costing much, and it would neatly reduce the incidents of dropping your phone in the toilet, or sitting in a hot tub with your phone, things that people do without knowing their phone is in their pocket.

-------------------------------

EDIT: I like my MBP a lot, but recently I've been thinking about going to a Thinkpad for my next laptop. I can get a lot more laptop for my money, and the build quality is impressive. It doesn't run OSX, but W7 is a decent OS. I loathed it at first, but after boot camping it for awhile, it's not too bad at all.

 

[Adamantoise]

EDIT: I like my MBP a lot, but recently I've been thinking about going to a Thinkpad for my next laptop. I can get a lot more laptop for my money, and the build quality is impressive. It doesn't run OSX, but W7 is a decent OS. I loathed it at first, but after boot camping it for awhile, it's not too bad at all.

I'm with you on that one.

My next laptop is going to be a PC too. I'll probably get something in the Thinkpad series or if anything get a Samsung.

 

[Wattser93]

I'm with you on that one.

My next laptop is going to be a PC too. I'll probably get something in the Thinkpad series or if anything get a Samsung.

I bought a MBP to try OSX, and really like OSX. I think it was a good experiment, but I think that W7 is a good enough OS for me to warrant buying a Thinkpad the next go around instead of a MBP to save quite a bit of money. I'm going to start using W7 under bootcamp for most of my daily needs, and see how it does as my main OS.

Apple makes a great machine and OS, don't get me wrong, but all of my engineering classes in college use Windows applications, and even though there are OSX versions, they aren't quite the same.

I like OSX for my personal use, but the more I'm taking classes in college the more I realize that going the Windows route will be much easier in the long run for my professional life. The professional world is using XP and W7, and it's easier to adapt now than go against the grain. (for my line of work)

 

[theSeb]

It's difficult to give you a clear answer because you do not mention your computing requirements apart from "it must be tough". If that's the case, then I would suggest a Panasonic Toughbook. They are quite expensive but you can even use them in the desert.

However, if all you do is muck about on the internet, twitter and facebook, then you don't need a powerful CPU or GPU so a $600 or whatever cheap laptop you can find will be fine for you. I am just guessing because I don't know what you mean exactly by "cheap laptops" that you buy to throw away. You can get Windows laptops for a couple of hundred dollars and you can get some for a couple of thousands of dollars. The main differences are what hardware is inside.

Just for scientific purposes I've done a comparison of similarly specced laptops.


After reading some threads today about buying a Dell or Lenovo and getting "more bang for your buck" I thought that it was time to try and do a detailed spec for spec comparison

Late 2011 15" MBP

2.5GHz Quad-core Intel Core i7 (i7-2860QM)
4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM — 2x2GB
750GB Serial ATA Drive @ 7200 rpm
SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
MacBook Pro 15-inch Hi-Res Antiglare Widescreen Display
Radeon HD 6770M* + HD3000
Apple Care (3 years)

£2477,99

Lenovo ThinkPad W520

intel Core i7-2860QM Processor (2.50GHz, 8MB L3, 1333MHz FSB)
Genuine Windows 7 Professional 64
Genuine Windows 7 Professional 64 English
15.6" FHD (1920 x 1080) LED Backlit Anti-Glare Display, Mobile Broadband Ready
NVIDIA Quadro 2000M Graphics with 2GB DDR3 Memory
Color Sensor
4 GB DDR3 - 1333MHz (1 DIMM)
Keyboard UK English
UltraNav with TrackPoint & touchpad plus Fingerprint reader
720p Camera
Internal RAID - Not Enabled
500 GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm
DVD recordable multiburner
Express Card Slot & 4 in 1 Card Reader
9 cell Li-Ion Battery - 55++
Country Pack United Kingdom with Line cord & 170W AC adapter
Bluetooth 3.0
Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 (3x3 AGN)
Integrated Mobile Broadband - Upgradable
Services and software
3 year Customer Carry-In Repair +ThinkPad Protection

Estimated Selling Price incl. VAT:
£2,650.80
Estimated Savings incl. VAT:
£485.37
*
Web Price incl. VAT:
£2,165.43

Ships within 1-2 weeks


Ok, so I've saved about £300, but I get a smaller hard drive and a 16:9 aspect ratio screen. 1080p displays are great for watching movies in my lounge, but not great for working. I would prefer the 16:10 aspect ratio of the MBP (15" and above). Quite often height is more important than width. Any objective reviews always praise the quality of the MBP screens in terms of brightness and colour accuracy so I think the MBP takes it there. This is very important people for some people and others have never heard of colour accuracy.

Comparing the Quadro 2000M and the Radeon 6770M they score similar results in rendering and computation benchmarks and the gaming benchmarks are not worth mentioning since the Quadro cards are not for gaming and don't do well there.

The Lenovo does come with 1 x 4 GB RAM so it's easier to upgrade, but RAM is ridiculously cheap to upgrade yourself anyway. The Lenovo has a more powerful battery (94Wh vs 77.5 Wh) and a more powerful AC adapter so it should feed the power hungry CPU. It also has mobile broadband, which some do like.

People often complain about Apple's pricing of SSD upgrades, but I can get a 120 GB SSD for £80 or a 256 GB for £400 from Apple. Lenovo will sell an Intel 160 GB for an extra £379.20. That's right. That's how much Lenovo wants to charge me in the UK.

So effectively the difference in price comes down to a couple of hundred pounds. If you're spending this much money on a laptop as opposed to a £500 jobbie from PC World, those couple of hundred pounds is not exactly a lot of money.

The same MBP in the US will cost me $2998, but if I do this comparison in the US it becomes a lot murkier. First of all I see that with the "CYBERMONDAY" coupon I can save a lot of money….


Price:
$3,269.00
Web price:
$2,338.00
After eCoupon:
$1,894.20
You save:
$1,374.80
*
Total
$1,894.20

Use eCoupon code CYBERMONDAY


Also the 160 GB SSD upgrade in the US on the Lenovo is only $320, which is no surprise since the UK always gets the sharp end of the stick with stuff like this.

So with the normal price of $2338 vs $2998 the difference is $660, but with the cybermonday coupon the difference is over $1000.

 

[thundersteele]

The thinkpad T 520 is a better comparison, but it's very similar spec wise. The base price here in the US is close to that of the MBP (depends on how much value you put on the higher def screen and 160 vs. 128 GB SSD), but the web price, which is always available, is quite a bit lower.

Anyways, your conclusion is still valid. It's possible to save 10%-20% by going for a non apple product with similar specifications, maybe a bit more if you find a good sale. For me, that's not enough to put up with Windows 7 and an ugly design.

A nice feature of thinkpads is that they are a bit more robust, and have some protection against liquid damage. But if that's a major factor, I would also recommend the Toughbook!

 

[IllIllIll]

Saturns are plastic, Le Mans cars are carbon fiber, they're far from the same. Carbon fiber is in a far different league. Cheapie PC laptops use plastic, not carbon fiber, so your point is moot. Would you rather dent your MBP or have your plastic cheapie laptop break? Aluminum doesn't stress fracture like plastic does.

I realize cheap laptops are not made out of carbon fiber. My point is that a laptop with a metal case is not the be-all and end-all solution that everyone here appears to think it is. Metal has its problems too. As you mentioned yourself, an aluminum laptop will dent when dropped. Although a plastic laptop may fracture or crack when dropped, there is also a fair chance the plastic may absorb the impact, hold its shape, and not fracture. Metal won't do that. The Saturn's urethane body panels work great at absorbing impacts with no damage, such as from a runaway shopping cart slamming into the car. The same concept holds true for plastic cases on laptops.

Lenovos are business oriented machines. Hummer H1s have water channels in their interior to flush the water out, does that mean that a Corvette needs them? No, because they're different vehicles for different applications. Don't spill on your MBP, it's not that hard. I've yet to have a single electronic item fail in my life because of water damage, and I've owned a handful of cell phones, iPods, etc... A little bit of care goes a long ways. Yes, accidents happen, but if spilling water on your laptop is a concern, you should buy a Thinkpad instead of a MBP.

I think we're on the same page here. The point being, nobody ever plans to spill liquid onto their laptop, just like they don't plan on dropping it or having it stolen. Saying "don't spill on your MBP" is all well and good and is perfect common sense, but people can and will use their MBPs in sub-optimal environments - which includes exposure to moisture. And saying "if you plan on spilling liquids on your laptop, get a Lenovo" doesn't make much sense.

 

[idunn]

Objective about Apple? Well ...

I've only had a little experience outside the Apple realm (thank God), but I did use a Sony Vaio for a time that seemingly was built like a tank … and operated about as smoothly. Meaning the hardware was bulletproof, but the internal Windows software sucked.

As for longevity, the MacBook I'm presently using was purchased new in 2007. For some reason the finish on some of the keys is wearing off, so a demerit to Apple on that. Presumably the newer keyboards are different, as well as machined aluminum case, neither of which I can speak to. But other than a few hiccups this MacBook has worked fine, with a LOT of use. The only outright failure, other than several replacement batteries (an issue I think and hope Apple has since rectified) is the optical drive more or less dead now after limited use.

Prior to this there was a glacier white Apple laptop purchased used, which was lovely until the main memory board abruptly kicked the bucket. Very sad, and with the prohibitive cost of repair: goodbye computer.

If spending any time on these boards you'll see any number of various questions and complaints about Apple products, if tempered with often outright love. Call it love/hate, and only the later when something isn't working right. Point being that Apple is not perfect, with my subjective feeling due certain screen issues with iPad's, etc., that their quality control of late might have slipped a notch or two. This may be in part a policy to simply replace anything defective. And while I would counsel checking any new purchase carefully for dead pixels, etc., it is otherwise a pleasure to deal with a company who stands behind their products. If under warranty, or sometimes even not, Apple is great in making it right.

I've heard that a lot of PC computers are of questionable build quality, and in having looked at a few can believe that. On the other hand, you'll generally end up paying less for more horsepower than with Apple. No way around it, Apple charges a premium, so a decision in that. But an easy one if you prefer elegant design, with build quality at least as good, if not probably better than most PCs. However, while all that might be nice, the primary reason I love Apple and will not consider anything else is because of their truly elegant and intuitive operating systems.

Best in class. Period.

That may be a somewhat biased opinion, all the more as I have ever only used Windows under protest, with little understanding of how great their latest and best operating system supposedly is. For gaming or something, eh, maybe. But personally I just want a computer to do what I want when I want, and know of nothing matching an Apple when it comes to intuitively and beautifully doing that. A friend of mine more versed in the Windows world points out that Macs are great if one prefers a closed ecosystem, but maddening if trying to do something outside the box Apple has not dreamed up, or just does not wish you to do. That is surely true. So the caveat here to understand all the pluses of OSX, but possible limitations as well.

However if having spent that much time with a Mac in your hands, forewarning you may be in danger of becoming an avid Apple adherent as well.

 

[JHUFrank]

IMO Apple and Lenovo laptops are far above everything else in the industry. Now I need to qualify that, the Lenovo X and T series and the Apple pro and air lines. I've use both personally and professionally, and the high end of both brands is a very worthy long term investment. I find that Lenovo has better keyboards, and Apple has better trackpad input. Both are durable, but Lenovo is almost ruggedized and does well surviving drops.

 

[Saturn1217]

To the OP

My current computer was my first Mac. I've had it for just over 2 years.

It took me a long time (just my personality) to finally decide to get an Apple laptop. I too wondered if macbooks were actually worth the money and the hyperbolic stories were true or if I was about to get duped into buying a really expensive toy that would look pretty and shiny for two weeks and then fall apart a year later forcing me to invest more money in a new computer.

Here is the truth (without exaggeration) from my perspective anyway.

Yes the build quality of the MBP is good and worth the money, although I wouldn't buy one if this was my only reason for getting it.

what does "better build quality" actually mean:

-it DOES NOT mean that this is a ruggedized computer like some thinkpads.
if you drop it you will cry and your computer will not be happy.

-it DOES mean that if you use it normally every day for two years (as I have) traveling back and forth with reasonable but not excessive precaution (I carry it in a purse with a laptop section but I don't use any other type of protection) you will see substantially less evidence of wear and tear than you do on most consumer grade PCs after two years.

-my laptop looks and functions essentially like new. The hinge (often a weak point in many laptops) is still working fine for me (and the hinge is likely the weakest part of the MBP comparatively speaking).

My point is if you get a MBP (or any Apple laptop really) you are far less likely to feel like you are using an 'old' computer 2-3 years later because they age very well. Probably doesn't hurt that Apple hasn't changed their MBP design yet so mine still looks like the ones they're selling today

 

[Zendokan]

I bought a MBP to try OSX, and really like OSX. I think it was a good experiment, but I think that W7 is a good enough OS for me to warrant buying a Thinkpad the next go around instead of a MBP to save quite a bit of money. I'm going to start using W7 under bootcamp for most of my daily needs, and see how it does as my main OS.Apple makes a great machine and OS, don't get me wrong, but all of my engineering classes in college use Windows applications, and even though there are OSX versions, they aren't quite the same.

I like OSX for my personal use, but the more I'm taking classes in college the more I realize that going the Windows route will be much easier in the long run for my professional life. The professional world is using XP and W7, and it's easier to adapt now than go against the grain. (for my line of work)

Euh???

You gave the solution to your problem yourself...

Mac and PC have the same CPU, the Intel i-series, so W7 runs perfectly on a MBP.

Maybe I'm interpreting your text wrong, but Bootcamp is just a bootloader, so it only partitions your MBP in a OSX part and W7 part.
The interaction between W7 and the internal hardware is directly without using a VM-ware type (Fusionz) and OSX.

So even when the professional world is using W7 as standard, you can still use a MBP perfectly.

 

[Mojo1]

I bought my first unibody Mac, a base model 13" MBP several months ago.

I cannot imagine a situation where it would bend. I suppose that if was dropped while open and it hit just right the display section could be bent. But when it is closed it has zero flex.

Comparing it to my pre-unibody 15" MBP it is an incredibly well-built, solid portable computer. Get a decent case for it and it should last for years with reasonable care.

 

[IllIllIll]

I cannot imagine a situation where it would bend. I suppose that if was dropped while open and it hit just right the display section could be bent. But when it is closed it has zero flex..

Really? There have already been several threads here with photos that show significant denting/flex when the MBP appreared to have been dropped and struck a corner. Your inability to consider this a possibility is naive.