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And the Winner is...

The winner of the Steve Jobs, Bill Gates (quite civil) smackdown...
AAPLMSFT.JPG


AAPL up $2.42 the day after (higher in afterhours), MSFT down $.42

It's obvious who Wallstreet thought won the iTune Plus / Surface war.

Let's see, new music store, or a coffee table computer....
 
I thought the most interesting thing was how differently the two talked about the future of technology. Gates couldn't stop listing specific technologies (3D! Multi-touch tables! Digital Living Rooms!) but Jobs stuck almost completely to more conceptual, nebulous ideas and wasn't willing to predict much. It sort of confirms my notion that Gates is a nerd, through and through, still totally psyched by new technology. Jobs, in addition to being a master showman and apparently kind of a prick that can't let anyone finish a sentence, seems to be more user oriented and interested in delivering a certain user experience, not the best technology per se. I love my macs, but I can't help feeling like I'd rather hang out with Bill.
 
Regarding Microsoft "holding back" innovation:

I am sure you are aware of this, but you must see Doug Engelbart's "THE DEMO:" http://sloan.stanford.edu/mousesite/1968Demo.html

Yes, that's right. A mouse, a GUI, Ethernet, Video conferencing, the works. In 1968.

There's a quote by somebody--can't remember who now, it's from "Fire in the Valley" that says that the computer industry is effectively riding the coattails of Doug Engelbart and chances are if somebody has an idea, Doug had it first.

My point: one man having an idea and showing products doesn't mean that the capability to bring it to the masses is there yet. Like it or not, Microsoft brought computing to the masses. And yes, there are problems with their implementation of it. But to say that without them we would be decades ahead of where we are now is just plain ignorant. It took Apple to originally bring the GUI to the Masses, almost 2 decades after a GUI was shown.

The point isn't that Microsoft has been "holding us back," but rather than no other company has come forward to push the innovative ideas you speak of.
 
Apple is fundamentally a software company?

...Very, very interesting.



And Bill wants projectors/screens on every wall in his house?

...Fahrenheit 451 Anyone?
 
Is it just me, or does it really seem like the money/resources BillG is donating now is kind of like, oh, blood money?

Mind you, I don't begrudge people of this world being helped, and I don't begrudge resources being made available to facilitate that end. However, I have no love for Bill, for what he's done, where he's gotten to, and ESPECIALLY how he's gotten there.

I think people are losing sight of the wisdom embodied in the notion that the ends do not justify the means.

I was irritated both by the interviewers (maybe Mossberg and whats-her-name can write articles, but they should NEVER be allowed to interview people -- especially together) and I was also irritated by the behavior of both Jobs and Gates. It was kind of irritating watching the two dancing around each other, trying not to step on any eggshells (sorry to mix metaphors), and generally acting like they were stroking each others' ... (well, I'll leave that bit for the rest of you to fill in).

There's two things I agree with Steve on. The first is that, by 1997, Apple was neither in a position to succeed by defeating Microsoft, nor were they in a position to cause Microsoft to fail.

The second thing was actually two separate bits that kind of went by almost under the radar. The first is that he said Japanese CE companies (read: Sony) can't do software worth a s___, and basically are lousy innovators. The second part is that you have to look forward, and not backward, and that's why amongst other things he got rid of the old Apple archives and gave them to Stanford U. Sony would do well to heed this advice and act similarly if they want to remain relevant in the marketplace.

Also, I don't know if anyone else here caught the subtext in the question raised by that Sony Pictures Entertainment dude's question to Steve that, in essence, "too much choice and options are a bad thing."

Everyone here seems to want to focus on Microsoft being the Evil Empire, and I'm not arguing that's a well-deserved title, but you folks are failing to pay any attention to Sony, which is an even larger evil empire. What was attempted to be legitimized here was that choice is bad, and that the public needs to be kept away from alternatives, and that they need to be spoon-fed (presumably by Sony and/or companies like Sony) what is good for them.

This is soooooooo typical of Sony's mentality and core to their being and straight out of their playbook that it isn't funny. And maybe some of you folks here will read what I've just written and laugh and dismiss it, but I'm telling you we all need to start paying real close attention to what Sony is really doing, especially in the entertainment world.

But the fact that someone at Sony actually had the cojones to try (and fail) to get Steve and Bill to say that choice and alternatives are a bad thing should be setting off red flags everywhere in the community.

Props to Steve and Bill for NOT going along with Sony on that one.
 
Steve:
"WRONG!!! Your ears you keep and I'll tell you why. So that every shriek of every child at seeing your hideousness will be yours to cherish. Every babe that weeps at your approach, every woman who cries out, "Dear God! What is that thing," will echo in your perfect ears. That is what to the pain means. It means I leave you in anguish, wallowing in freakish misery forever."

Bill:
"I think you're bluffing."
 

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Not exactly on topic, but...Does anyone know what brand those red chairs are? They look spectacular and I really want one. :D


Thanks.
 
Favourite Steve Jobs quote in response to Windows users who run iTunes on their PC:

"It's like giving a glass of ice water to someone in hell".

Hi-lar-i-ous
:D
 
I thought the most interesting thing was how differently the two talked about the future of technology. Gates couldn't stop listing specific technologies (3D! Multi-touch tables! Digital Living Rooms!) but Jobs stuck almost completely to more conceptual, nebulous ideas and wasn't willing to predict much. It sort of confirms my notion that Gates is a nerd, through and through, still totally psyched by new technology. Jobs, in addition to being a master showman and apparently kind of a prick that can't let anyone finish a sentence, seems to be more user oriented and interested in delivering a certain user experience, not the best technology per se. I love my macs, but I can't help feeling like I'd rather hang out with Bill.

I think steve just doesn't like to be too open about what the future holds--in front of an audience. He sees the future, he just like to keep it a little close to the vest. And he was excited, so he interrupted a little--I do the same thing when I'm really into something (not to mention, he is much better at telling stories than Bill.)
 
After watching the video...

I have never seen so many white people in a single room since the Republican National Convention
 
Wb) Bill Gates and Microsoft NOT causing the IT-industry to be 20 years behind from where it could be

?

I'd say that we would all be better off with option B. But thanks to Microsoft and Bill Gates, we are still in the stone-age.


That is a very tautological argument....maybe we are exactly where we are supposed to be.

Some people need to watch that video and listen to Steve. The past is past, focus on the future. It is what it is.
 
Did anyone else feel that Jobs came across as arrogant? That, and the fact that half his jokes died on their ass, made him seem quite unlikable for most of the interview.

I never thought it'd be the case, but Gates was much more likable and open. And his threads were cooler.

The male interviewer was a total let down. No humour at all. Jobs clearly didn't like him much.

Good news about .mac though... it's been very limited and expensive for ages.
 
I really didn't like the woman interviewer. Walt was ok, but she really didn't contribute much. In fact, she asked Jobs if he had an iPhone on him only a few moments after he showed it!

Jobs was kind of arrogant. I wish Walt asked some more interesting questions though...it wasn't all that interesting.
 
Steve:
"WRONG!!! Your ears you keep and I'll tell you why. So that every shriek of every child at seeing your hideousness will be yours to cherish. Every babe that weeps at your approach, every woman who cries out, "Dear God! What is that thing," will echo in your perfect ears. That is what to the pain means. It means I leave you in anguish, wallowing in freakish misery forever."

Bill:
"I think you're bluffing."
Someone's been watching a little too much Princess Bride.

On Topic:
Everyone keeps saying that Jobs was arrogant and wouldn't let Gates finish a sentence. I really didn't see it that way. The only time Jobs interrupted Gates was when Gates was trying to tell a story about Apple. Gates even admitted that Jobs tells stories better.

I really felt that this interview allowed the public a peek at how Jobs and Gates view each other; not as competitors, most of the time, but as the two best in their prospective fields.

Great peek at where they are both headed as well. Expect to see more small mobile devices for specific applications from Apple and large scale haptic devices from Microsoft.

Personally, I think this is the absolute best interview I've seen answers wise (the hosts weren't to great). A lot of "meat and potatoes" there. It was great to see Jobs and Gates get away from the shroud of work and talk about technology and life as a person, as one of us so to speak. Gates generally does this currently anyway but to see Jobs do that along side Gates was nice. There were some pretty good heartfelt comments as well.
 
Did anyone else feel that Jobs came across as arrogant?

The male interviewer was a total let down. No humour at all. Jobs clearly didn't like him much.


The interviewer seemed clueless to technology.:confused:

On the other hand, did anyone else feel that Jobs blew it when that guy gave him the chance to show off the iphone??? Jobs just took it out and put it right back in his pocket. Even though jobs offered to send the guy one, jobs could have at least handed it to him to look at.

It was like a kid who says, "You wanna see it? See???? There, you saw it!!!"

a bit rude IMO.
 
The interviewer seemed clueless to technology.:confused:

Walt Mossberg is probably one of the most knowledgeable persons of technology. Not only does he write for The Wall Street Journal, but..
Wikipedia said:
Mossberg is widely regarded as one of the most influential writers on information technology. In 2004, in a lengthy profile, Wired called him "The Kingmaker", saying "[f]ew reviewers have held so much power to shape an industry's successes and failures." He is also the highest paid journalist at the Journal.

All Things Digital is a pretty respected conference in the industry, and Mossberg puts it together.
 
Did anyone else feel that Jobs came across as arrogant? That, and the fact that half his jokes died on their ass, made him seem quite unlikable for most of the interview.

I never thought it'd be the case, but Gates was much more likable and open. And his threads were cooler.

The male interviewer was a total let down. No humour at all. Jobs clearly didn't like him much.

Good news about .mac though... it's been very limited and expensive for ages.

This is the most insane post I've read here in quite some time. Jobs arrogant? I didn't get that in the slightest. I find him to be very quiet and meek compared to the wild excited Jobs I've seen before.

Walt is Walt. He was totally to the point. He had lots to ask and lots of folks to interview. It's a different style that may not entertain you, but instead is meant to be indifferent, kind of like a debate.

I think Gates comes across and poorly spoken, and very unpolished, unkempt person. Even next to Jobs unshaven look. Bill's hair is a mess, his glasses are poorly chosen, and he slumps over and generally looks defeated and unconfident.

Jobs has a nice intelligent dry witt that sometimes is funny in your face and at other times a little out there or with odd references. So what.
 
Do you have ANY idea how much kick-ass technology has been killed due to Microsoft? Do you realize that we had network-aware GUI's in the eighties? Do you realize that we had operating-systems that did not crash? But thanks to Microsoft, there's HUGE amount of people who think it's perfectly acceptable that computers crash, that they get slow when they are infested with spyware... Do you realize that we have had GUI's since early eighties, yet thanks to Microsoft, mainstream computing got blessed with a crappy GUI about ten years later?

Thanks to Microsoft, large part of computer-users actually dislike computers. Thanks to Microsoft, we are DECADES behind where we could be. And now we should stand hand in hand and sing "Kumbayah" because Bill Gates is donating 20 billion dollars? I'm sorry, but that money comes nowhere near fixing the damage Microsoft has caused.

Errr - don't you mean "no thanks to the companies that were unable to make a better technology a success?" Hey don't blame Microsoft just because you or someone else weren't able to bring your tech to the forefront. But shouldn't you be mad at the other companies that let MS run all over them when apparently the other companies had a superior product?

When your favorite sports team loses, who do you get mad at? From your logic I'd assume you blame the winning team for beating your team. I mean, what kind of nerve did they have, beating your team when your team was obviously better?
 
Quality of Life

I have to agree -- bill gates might not make as great of products or be as good a speech giver, but he is probably the biggest philanthrapist in the history of the earth, and that deserves immense respect. I don't have the time to look it up right now, but Gates has given not just unimaginably vast sums in dollar value, but I believe somethign like 95% of his wealth, and more importantly, he has built a foundation around using that money to creatively and effectively solve global problems in ways that normally only govenrments can do. Steve Jobs, FYI, has done very little, at least that we know about, and is definately NOT proportionally equal in generosity.

I actually thought that difference between them was apparent in the interview -- Steve still seemed to want to answer questions with hype on current products and building marketing, whereas Bill was more honest and open and answered the question itself. Bill struck me as more genuine.

All in all though, this sure was fun to watch.

What Bill gives in terms of money pales dramatically by comparison to the enormous wealth Steve has bestowed upon us in terms of style, elegance, functionality, and extraordinary capabilities. Steve has empowered us at massive levels, and continues to do so, far more than the distribution of funds could ever attempt to accomplish.
 
Did anyone else feel that Jobs came across as arrogant? That, and the fact that half his jokes died on their ass, made him seem quite unlikable for most of the interview.

I never thought it'd be the case, but Gates was much more likable and open. And his threads were cooler.

The male interviewer was a total let down. No humour at all. Jobs clearly didn't like him much.

Good news about .mac though... it's been very limited and expensive for ages.

I enjoyed listening to Jobs speak more than Gates. It must be his reality distortion field.
 
I think Steve J came across as a very likeable guy.

Bill G came across as someone used to speaking without interruption and expected to be listened to. I thought of the two he was more arrogant, but hey as the richest guy in the world I think he is entitled to a bit of arrogance.

I may be thinking too much but as he was prophesising about future concepts he kept looking at Steve J almost baiting him into giving his next big thing away. But Steve J resolutely said nothing, just generalisations anyone could have said. The questions were very loaded and they were after exclusive titbits about new products. But by not saying much about the future leads me to think Apple have some exciting things in the pipeline. Bill G protesteth too much and his software is king attitude bores me to death, but he still came over as a nice guy I reckon.
 
I watched the whole lot and really enjoyed it. It was great to see the guys who are largely responsible for technology I use day to day and get an idea of how things have happened.

They both seemed to have great respect for each other. They seem like too 'normal' blokes who have been very successful in their field from pioneers to present day.

When Steve said the quote about the road ahead and the memories behind, I was genuinely touched - looking at Steve’s face, I thought he really meant it - the female interviewer made light of it, but I thought that was misjudged.
 
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