fatfish said:
Not sure how you people react in Europe, but here in North America no one is talking about the monopolistic way Microsoft do their business.
I guess you are different than us.
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Bill Gates says cell phone will beat iPod
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Not sure how you people react in Europe, but here in North America no one is talking about the monopolistic way Microsoft do their business.
I guess you are different than us.
Too early to tell
It is far too early to try to pick a winner here. The phone companies are just rolling out their music store plans which requires them to replace most of the installed base of phones. In the mean time Apple continues to innovate with the iPod. Apple spends half a billion dollars a year on R&D. They are not just researching new shades of white plastic.
The phone companies have the upper hand because they own the networks. All the new phones have to be loaded with features because then the phone companies can extract revenue from each feature you use.
In the mean time, the rest of the world's technology keeps marching on. I'd say the phone companies need two years to have a significant impact on the music business. In that time who knows what will happen. As was pointed out earlier, maybe we'll start using VOIP via WiFi or WiMax at lower cost than the cell phone plans.
Maybe cell phones will become so small that we won't mind carrying two devices. Remember those little communicators they used on The Man From UNCLE? Put a cell phone into something the size of a Mont Blanc pen. You could have a tiny LCD on the side to see who is calling and voice activated dialing. Or maybe a cell phone the size of a Blue Tooth ear piece.
Also, in another year or two Apple will have a huge installed base. And the iPod/iTunes/iTMS system will have evolved quite a bit. The phone guys are not thinking "what really cool thing can we make to attract people". They are thinking "we've got these people locked into using our networks. How else can we get some money from them."
After writing the above I did a little searching.
Here is a pen phone:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1749315,00.asp
http://www.simoncells.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=1363
I'm not much of a cell phone fan myself. I leave mine on the desk and check it for messages a couple times a day.
It is far too early to try to pick a winner here. The phone companies are just rolling out their music store plans which requires them to replace most of the installed base of phones. In the mean time Apple continues to innovate with the iPod. Apple spends half a billion dollars a year on R&D. They are not just researching new shades of white plastic.
The phone companies have the upper hand because they own the networks. All the new phones have to be loaded with features because then the phone companies can extract revenue from each feature you use.
In the mean time, the rest of the world's technology keeps marching on. I'd say the phone companies need two years to have a significant impact on the music business. In that time who knows what will happen. As was pointed out earlier, maybe we'll start using VOIP via WiFi or WiMax at lower cost than the cell phone plans.
Maybe cell phones will become so small that we won't mind carrying two devices. Remember those little communicators they used on The Man From UNCLE? Put a cell phone into something the size of a Mont Blanc pen. You could have a tiny LCD on the side to see who is calling and voice activated dialing. Or maybe a cell phone the size of a Blue Tooth ear piece.
Also, in another year or two Apple will have a huge installed base. And the iPod/iTunes/iTMS system will have evolved quite a bit. The phone guys are not thinking "what really cool thing can we make to attract people". They are thinking "we've got these people locked into using our networks. How else can we get some money from them."
After writing the above I did a little searching.
Here is a pen phone:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1749315,00.asp
http://www.simoncells.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=1363
I'm not much of a cell phone fan myself. I leave mine on the desk and check it for messages a couple times a day.
quik said:
You don't think so eh, guess I must read your papers more than you do.
Don't get me wrong I'm a capitalist, I believe if we sell a product we should be able to sell it how you want. That's what I believe it should be like, but I know darn well it isn't, either here or in the US. Unfortunately you seem to believe what you want..... which is pretty evident given you believe the silly idea that the mac and the PC are just the same.
MrDavid said:I actually am a Windows user. I've used Windows since version 3+. SP2, no issues what so ever. Mostly, MS has been a flawless co for me.
Perhaps you should see if it's still the same once you switch it on.
fatfish said:
I do think that having a separate iPod/cellphone is useful, but for the majority of people and functions, having one device is the most convenient.
1) a valid issue but not unsolvable;
2) I agree, but many people just don't answer their cellphones. Moreover, I use my cellphone for mostly non-business use anyways so it is always with me;
3) a solvable issue if you can backup the music on the hard drive on your computer; and
4) add-ons usually suck with a few exceptions (my favorite being: the add-on to transfer digital photos).
I wouldn't want my cell phone to be my iPod. How annoying, I'm listening to music and then I have to pause it or something while I take the call. They're already building too many crappy little things into cell phones anyways. But, of course, this is coming from a guy who doesn't have a cell phone and doesn't want one.
bluefido said:
1. I can't see how this is solvable unless you include spending the whole flight in the toilet.
2. I can agree for non business use, but pray tell me why would anyone want to carry a phone and not answer it.
3. Backing up was built into my scenario, putting all that info back on to something as slow as a phone is a real pain and also I see with a lot of non iTMS services you can only transfer the music a couple of times to new devices. And how does that work if you change networks.
I am a loyal Mac user (though I am using a PC right now because I am currently out of the country) and will be for the foreseeable future. I've owned a Mac (or some descendent thereof) for about 15 years and actually kind of miss my old Mac Centra. However, the discourse of Mac fans is pretty pathetic. Let people use Windows if they want to. We sound so petty when we criticize Bill Gates and Windows for the stupidest things. He was expressing an opinion about the iPod. Just because he has a different idea as to the direction of the market, doesn't make him a lunatic. Windows may be inferior but it is not as if you're trying to light a fire with a flint and stone if you do use that particular OS. At the very least, you will be able to play Doom 3 at decent framerates while lighting that fire.
Whilst i'd love a phone that doubles as an iPod what most people seem to be forgetting is that mobile phones tend to be regarded as 'fashion accesories'- well at least here in the UK.
With the carriers subsidising the phones to zero cost to the end user on 12 month contracts there is little point keeping the latest 'must-have' phone for any longer than that. And much like computers the moment you buy the latest greatest phone another much better one comes along!
So whilst the idea of the two combining is great it would only take a few years until I've a drawful of these ipod/phone hybrids.
Perhaps the carriers will eventually stop subsidising to such an extent that I'll keep a phone longer than 12 months but some of the phones I've had retailed at £400+ without a contract but "FREE" on signing a £25month contract for 12months with "free minutes and text"
With the carriers subsidising the phones to zero cost to the end user on 12 month contracts there is little point keeping the latest 'must-have' phone for any longer than that. And much like computers the moment you buy the latest greatest phone another much better one comes along!
So whilst the idea of the two combining is great it would only take a few years until I've a drawful of these ipod/phone hybrids.
Perhaps the carriers will eventually stop subsidising to such an extent that I'll keep a phone longer than 12 months but some of the phones I've had retailed at £400+ without a contract but "FREE" on signing a £25month contract for 12months with "free minutes and text"
Posted earlier but worth repeating...
Carriers selling music for their phones simply will not work with the price models that are being predicted.
Who in their right mind would spend $30 ($3/song for 10 songs) for an album downloaded to their phone that cannot be removed. And even if it could be removed is it worth 3x the cost of an itunes album to be able to play music on your phone rather than an ipod or other portable player. The economics simply do not work. Paying $3 for a few ringtones is one thing... but when you think about actually aquiring even a small amount of music, its just not worth it... and what about if you want to load an album on your phone that you already own, you've now got to repurchase that album to use it??? not practical.
And if they offer music for the same price as iTunes, then they would cannibalize their ringtone sales because they would loose all that revenue thats made on selling 10secs of music for $2.50.
Cell phone companies are just being way too greedy. And it will catch up with them. Unless they are really ready to be reasonable with their pricing and usage (how many of you own bluetooth crippled phones so you have to pay to send your pictures instead of downloading them straight to your computer) then I don't see how this well ever fly, regardless of the storage/battery/design issues. Give us a phone that we can fill with our own music, like the Motorolla itunes phone - even charge us $5 a month extra to have music playing/uploading ability... but $3 a track, no thanks. I'll carry around a phone and ipod with me forever...
Carriers selling music for their phones simply will not work with the price models that are being predicted.
Who in their right mind would spend $30 ($3/song for 10 songs) for an album downloaded to their phone that cannot be removed. And even if it could be removed is it worth 3x the cost of an itunes album to be able to play music on your phone rather than an ipod or other portable player. The economics simply do not work. Paying $3 for a few ringtones is one thing... but when you think about actually aquiring even a small amount of music, its just not worth it... and what about if you want to load an album on your phone that you already own, you've now got to repurchase that album to use it??? not practical.
And if they offer music for the same price as iTunes, then they would cannibalize their ringtone sales because they would loose all that revenue thats made on selling 10secs of music for $2.50.
Cell phone companies are just being way too greedy. And it will catch up with them. Unless they are really ready to be reasonable with their pricing and usage (how many of you own bluetooth crippled phones so you have to pay to send your pictures instead of downloading them straight to your computer) then I don't see how this well ever fly, regardless of the storage/battery/design issues. Give us a phone that we can fill with our own music, like the Motorolla itunes phone - even charge us $5 a month extra to have music playing/uploading ability... but $3 a track, no thanks. I'll carry around a phone and ipod with me forever...
fatfish said:
1) I believe that if enough people demand it, airline carriers will respond with a solution. Cellphones may be shut off while leaving the MP3 players on.
2) From personal experience, I use the ignore function on my cell phone often. If it's really important, they will leave an email.
3) Valid point, but this is something that technology will solve. Who would have thought that you transfer 20 gigs of songs onto a portable hard drive in less than 30 minutes four years ago?
Mp3 playing cell phones will no more defeat the iPod than photo capable cell phones have any chance of defeating the camera industry.
Besides, it's obvious that Apple does not stand still when it comes to evolving the iPod line. They're almost to the point where all iPod's (not mini's or shuffles) have color screens and photo viewing capability. They're showing every sign of including video capability very soon and are rumored to be teaming up with Sony to introduce a whole new way to watch and download movies. By the time cell phones catch up to just the music playing capabilities, the iPod will have evolved way beyond being a mere music player.
Wireless video iChat via iPod, anyone?
Besides, it's obvious that Apple does not stand still when it comes to evolving the iPod line. They're almost to the point where all iPod's (not mini's or shuffles) have color screens and photo viewing capability. They're showing every sign of including video capability very soon and are rumored to be teaming up with Sony to introduce a whole new way to watch and download movies. By the time cell phones catch up to just the music playing capabilities, the iPod will have evolved way beyond being a mere music player.
Wireless video iChat via iPod, anyone?
Oh well, this ain't all that bad...
Apple will just have to make iPods with a built-in video cellphone. Gaining world domination of the cellphone market as well!
hmm call it: iPod Talk.
or... iPod Smart Phone, or... iPod Genius Phone, or... iPod Mensa Phone!
Apple will just have to make iPods with a built-in video cellphone.
Gaining world domination of the cellphone market as well! hmm call it: iPod Talk.
or... iPod Smart Phone, or... iPod Genius Phone, or... iPod Mensa Phone!
I wish all those windozy users would stop whining about us mac users kicking sand in their faces, it gives us something to do. it's alright for you lot, you can keep yourselves amused figuring out critical conflicts or ridding your system of virus(es) (don't know what the plural is - but I bet you PC users do)
We need something to do at night, anyway it's not exactly poking fun at you all, it's more like chuckling inside when you watch someone run into a lampost while looking the other way.
We need something to do at night, anyway it's not exactly poking fun at you all, it's more like chuckling inside when you watch someone run into a lampost while looking the other way.
The problem is that people tend to switch cell phones when they change wireless providers. This tends to happen once a year. Most people intend to use their iPods for more than just one year.
bozs13 said:
The Honda Civic won't become obsolete anytime soon, but the Ford Fusion coming in the fall based on the excellent Mazda 6 will seriously challenge it and the Accord. Fully loaded with 210HP V6 and 6 speed auto, right around $20,000. All Wheel Drive and full hybrid version coming a year after the intro. Ford has finally came up with a good idea, so who knows there is still hope for Microsoft...naw...I don't think there is hope for them.
Remember there was a time when General Motors was like M$, nothing could ever take them down and now GM is on the verge of bankruptcy!
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Bill is right, but not anytime soon, so I don't see why there are so many negative ratings for his comment.
fatfish said:
Except that the features, quality of music, and ease of use (perhaps the only questionable one) of an iPod can be replicated on a phone. You definitely cannot say the same about a camera versus a camera phone.
macmax77 said:
This pisses Bill off too.
Microsoft would have really had a huge hit if Apple didn't have iTunes and the iPod. WMA would have been the standard music format, having a Media PC would have been cool to store all your music in it's native Windows format well integrated in the OS. The Windows Media Video format would probably be stronger too. Microsoft lost the music format war and that would have made it very difficult to switch away from Windows.
Also most of the Microsoft employees would be using Windows Media as their music format of choice.
I hope someone makes a movie called "Pirates of Silicon Valley 2 the Wrath of Jobs". Or at least a Star Wars parody like the one in this thread. Bill's face is even starting to look like the evil Stars Wars character.
Bill Gates probably owns an iPod and a dual 2.7 GHz G5 with a 30 inch Cinema display. He just wont tell anybody, thats all.