Bin Laden - Cactus Profundus??

solvs

macrumors 603
Jun 25, 2002
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LaLaLand, CA
I had heard about this on some conspiracy website (what, they can be entertaining) awhile ago. Sometimes they get things right, so I'd believe it if it turns out to be true. I'm sure this will get sent to the Political Forum, but I'm hoping we can keep civil for long enough to keep it in Current Events. Everyone should be talking about this.

Kinda upset we couldn't bring him to justice first though.
 

RedTomato

macrumors 601
Mar 4, 2005
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.. London ..
USA won't let him die. He's too valuable alive.

Without a useful enemy, Bush would be out of power long ago.

When the soviets fell, the imperium were really casting around for something to scare the proles with.

With Al-quada gone, how would the USA govt justify their powergrabs and wire-taps?
 

Henri Gaudier

macrumors 6502a
May 4, 2005
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France
Canadian troops ARE American troops!

topicolo said:
Seriously, if Bin Laden was suspected of hiding out on the border between afghanistan and pakistan as the article said, why didn't the US conduct organized sweeps of the area continuously instead of focusing their efforts on Iraq? There are now more than 2x the number of CANADIAN troops there vs. US troops and the original terrorist attacks weren't even in Canada. How can the Bush government disrespect the innocent victims of 9/11 by forgetting them like this? Why are foreign allies committing more resources to a known base of Al Qaeda? Something is seriously wrong with this picture.
If your boys are carrying out Americas Imperialistic dirty work they are effectively American troops. Same with every cowardly nation that is allowing itself to be bullied by the Americans. Bomb you back to the stoneage says it all!
 

RedTomato

macrumors 601
Mar 4, 2005
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.. London ..
Henri Gaudier said:
If your boys are carrying out Americas Imperialistic dirty work they are effectively American troops. Same with every cowardly nation that is allowing itself to be bullied by the Americans. Bomb you back to the stoneage says it all!
British troops are in there doing American dirty work, yes I accept that. But they're not 'my boys'. I might be British but I don't own or run the British army.

When Tony Blair crawled up Bush's arse, there was the largest anti-war protest in London since the 1960s. Huge protests around the country, I was on several of these marches too.

Even in the USA and in Canada, there were huge anti-war protests. One of the biggest was in NYC, but it was heavily supressed by the US media.

Please don't make the mistake of assuming a nation's people have the same thinking or moral fibre as insane leaders advised by neo-conservatives or ex-Trots.
 

Henri Gaudier

macrumors 6502a
May 4, 2005
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France
Hello Red Tomato...

... yes, of course you're right. I felt funny writing "your boys" as I typed it.

Yes, I was in Canada at the time of the anti - war demos and attended the Toronto march. It was a special day as every so often an announcement would be made about the attendance of the London march as the numbers went up and up. It must have been quite something but ultimately to no avail.
 

topicolo

macrumors 68000
Jun 4, 2002
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Ottawa, ON
Henri Gaudier said:
If your boys are carrying out Americas Imperialistic dirty work they are effectively American troops. Same with every cowardly nation that is allowing itself to be bullied by the Americans. Bomb you back to the stoneage says it all!
I agree that we have no right to impose western values on any people, but now that the Taliban has been toppled, Afghanistan needs security. They're far too weak to do it themselves and civilians are being murdered by the taliban almost daily so it's our duty as wealthy nations to stop this. Still, there are certain things universal to all cultures that we need to enforce. Things like human rights and the freedom to live without fear of being murdered. We need to stay there until the Afghans can stand on their own two feet--and maybe eliminate some of that poppy production (Afghanistan is producing over 90% of the world's heroin).
 

xsedrinam

macrumors 601
Oct 21, 2004
4,347
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topicolo said:
I agree that we have no right to impose western values on any people, but now that the Taliban has been toppled, Afghanistan needs security. They're far too weak to do it themselves and civilians are being murdered by the taliban almost daily so it's our duty as wealthy nations to stop this. Still, there are certain things universal to all cultures that we need to enforce. Things like human rights and the freedom to live without fear of being murdered. We need to stay there until the Afghans can stand on their own two feet--and maybe eliminate some of that poppy production (Afghanistan is producing over 90% of the world's heroin).
Interestingly, the production of opium in Afghanistan was down during the Taliban regime, but has once again been on the increase since their topple from power. That, plus the fact that some 2500 Taliban freedom fighters have been released from Pakistani prisons over recent years and are returning to Afghanistan, make for some interesting days.
"Since being largely outlawed, the production of opium has significantly decreased around the world, despite an increasing demand. Opium is still being produced today legally for medicine. Afghanistan is currently the number one producer of the drug. During Taliban rule, the production of opium significantly decreased to 74 metric tons per year, but after the toppling of the Taliban by the Northern Alliance with foreign support in 2001, production has increased again." Opium: Production Today
 

ezekielrage_99

macrumors 68040
Oct 12, 2005
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I worked in a government information role during the last few years and Bin Laden is a very small part of terrorism but is also a very big part of the "public face" of terrorism. The majority of the public percieve that once Bin Laden is out of the picture things will go back to normal, newsflash there are way more people who are just as motivated in bring down the west as Bin Laden.

If he is dead or not isn't the issue, it's what he stood for and will those ideals live on and I'm sadly guessing yes.
 

ezekielrage_99

macrumors 68040
Oct 12, 2005
3,336
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topicolo said:
Seriously, if Bin Laden was suspected of hiding out on the border between afghanistan and pakistan as the article said, why didn't the US conduct organized sweeps of the area continuously instead of focusing their efforts on Iraq? There are now more than 2x the number of CANADIAN troops there vs. US troops and the original terrorist attacks weren't even in Canada. How can the Bush government disrespect the innocent victims of 9/11 by forgetting them like this? Why are foreign allies committing more resources to a known base of Al Qaeda? Something is seriously wrong with this picture.
Spoken by a person who has never has had any dealings with government bureaucracy when it comes to funding operations. Perception defines reality and you have to remember Bush is the democratically voted head of state, if Americans didn't like him more peace loving hippies should have bothered voting. As for Blair same thing goes, you put them in power reap the harvest you have sown.
 

solvs

macrumors 603
Jun 25, 2002
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LaLaLand, CA
ezekielrage_99 said:
If he is dead or not isn't the issue, it's what he stood for and will those ideals live on and I'm sadly guessing yes.
I agree, but it still seems odd to us that he's still on the loose after what he and his organization did. I am under the impression he and Al Qaeda were responsible for planning and executing 9/11. Yet we are in Iraq. :confused: Maybe we're missing the bigger picture, but considering all the mistakes that have been made, you can't blame us for questioning the process. After Katrina, even more questions were raised about how safe we really are so many years later. We wonder if those recommendations by the 9/11 Commission and others were followed, when they don't seem to be. The fact that there's still so much bureaucracy, after we've supposedly given up some of our rights to alleviate these issues doesn't help either. And now we're hear what we're doing is not making us safer, but actually the opposite.

Bin Laden isn't just the face of terrorism for us. He is for them too. It would have been a huge boon to get him when we could, but we didn't, which most of us think make us look worse. Everyone was behind us when we went to get him, but that changed when we changed course. I think we're allowed to be a little upset about that.
 

ezekielrage_99

macrumors 68040
Oct 12, 2005
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RedTomato said:
Assuming you mean Bin Laden, yes you're right, he used to be funded by the CIA. I thought everyone knew this?
NSA funded, CIA trained :D

The US didn't pick the winner that time ;)
 

Dont Hurt Me

macrumors 603
Dec 21, 2002
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Yahooville S.C.
Seems we have a habit of getting bed with the worst and allways backing the wrong guys, Im sure the fact that Bush's family and the Bin Ladens were business partners has nothing at all to do with this issue. Nothing though Bin Laden is free and he attacked us and Saddam whom Rumsfeld met, shaked hands and supported is in Prison.