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These days will never return until Apple stops selling terrible hardware for gaming and cripple them further with proprietary API's that lack essential features found in competing products.

The way Apple is going right now, I'm not expecting that to happen any time soon.

Yeah back in the day there were so many great Mac exclusives or games that started on the Mac and were ported to PC. I don't think those days will ever return.

Apple is losing momentum in many areas. If they can put a GTX 1060 in a slim and light laptop the iMac should get at least that or better, but I'm willing to bet it won't happen.
 
That's all well and good but no way are developers adopting Metal for multi-platform games. I'm guessing the uptake is slow even for iOS-exclusive titles. I'm not even aware of any Metal games on the Mac. Macs are usually lucky to get an average PC port.

For games where there's a Windows version (which, let's face it, is all of them) you're always better off booting into Windows to play the PC version, unless perhaps it's just a very basic arcade or puzzle game where poor optimisation doesn't show and even then developers can make mistakes and the experience can be worse.

Take for example the cool little puzzle game "Mini Metro" which uses vector graphics. For whatever reason (the developer made some excuse) the game won't run any higher than my "looks like" resolution of 1680x1050 in macOS but I can play it at the full rMBP resolution of 2880x1800 in Windows, where consequently it looks much better.

I remember the days when there used to be Mac exclusive games. Games made and optimised for the Mac. Anyone remember Bugdom?

Sad that those days are long gone.

World of Warcraft supports Metal now and the performance improvement is pretty huge.

Deus Ex: Mankind Decided is utilising Metal and that game is of course available for Windows too (and Linux).

http://appleinsider.com/articles/16...-dishes-on-apple-metal-graphics-pros-and-cons

Would be interesting to hear the excuse the developer has for not being able to run Mini Metro in native resolution in macOS.
 
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World of Warcraft supports Metal now and the performance improvement is pretty huge.

Deus Ex: Mankind Decided is utilising Metal and that game is of course available for Windows too (and Linux).

http://appleinsider.com/articles/16...-dishes-on-apple-metal-graphics-pros-and-cons

Would be interesting to here the excuse the developer has for not being able to run Mini Metro in native resolution in macOS.

Cool, thanks for the link!

Sadly I'm not interested in either of those titles but I wonder if they actually perform as well in Mac.
 
Cool, thanks for the link!

Sadly I'm not interested in either of those titles but I wonder if they actually perform as well in Mac.

Yes, it will be very interesting to see how that game will perform in macOS (using Metal) compared Windows 10 (using DirectX 11 or 12). My bet would be it's better in Windows, but probably not as much better as it was pre Metal.
 
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Imho it went downhill from the moment Intel began to abuse it's monopolistic position and chipsets like the nforce got canned as a result.

Since then a lot of products (even non Apple hw) are stuck with crappy Intel integrated gpu's. You can always add a mobile gpu but because it's not that well integrated it always seems to come with some drawbacks.
 
That's all well and good but no way are developers adopting Metal for multi-platform games. I'm guessing the uptake is slow even for iOS-exclusive titles. I'm not even aware of any Metal games on the Mac. Macs are usually lucky to get an average PC port.

For games where there's a Windows version (which, let's face it, is all of them) you're always better off booting into Windows to play the PC version, unless perhaps it's just a very basic arcade or puzzle game where poor optimisation doesn't show and even then developers can make mistakes and the experience can be worse.

Take for example the cool little puzzle game "Mini Metro" which uses vector graphics. For whatever reason (the developer made some excuse) the game won't run any higher than my "looks like" resolution of 1680x1050 in macOS but I can play it at the full rMBP resolution of 2880x1800 in Windows, where consequently it looks much better.

I remember the days when there used to be Mac exclusive games. Games made and optimised for the Mac. Anyone remember Bugdom?

Sad that those days are long gone.

Developers don't have to adopt Metal. They can just use Vulcan and use MoltenVK to convert the code to Metal. Metal is just Apple's implementation of Vulkan.
 
Developers don't have to adopt Metal. They can just use Vulcan and use MoltenVK to convert the code to Metal. Metal is just Apple's implementation of Vulkan.

The problem with your "argument" is that Metal is NOT Apple's implementation of Vulkan. Metal came first (for iOS) and has precious little in common with it at this point other than they're both not Direct X.

It's interesting to see developer comments:
https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/38469
 
The problem with your "argument" is that Metal is NOT Apple's implementation of Vulkan. Metal came first (for iOS) and has precious little in common with it at this point other than they're both not Direct X.

It's interesting to see developer comments:
https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/38469

Still, the posts there are from before ”Metal 2.0” was revealed in macOS Sierra. Would be interesting to see some updated views. Except maybe that last negative (and to me seemingly somewhat narrow-minded) comment by ”AbhimanyuAryan”. :)
 
I remember the days when there used to be Mac exclusive games. Games made and optimised for the Mac. Anyone remember Bugdom?

Sad that those days are long gone.

Part of it might be the production costs of modern games. The amount of artist time required for a character or prop has increased pretty dramatically over the last 2 decades.
 
Hey mate

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-mini-2012-2-6-gtx-1070-gaming.1980043/#post-23065693

The main issue is pascal drivers under OS X , fingers crossed they are coming.

The setup though turned my crippled Mac mini in terms of GPU into a performer. And that is under TB1, don't be fooled that you need TB3 to get performance . Get whatever is the right price, mine was based on good price on the sonnet. I'd be looking at the razer core ATM

Thanks much, and good to know about TB2/3 not being *that* necessary (and TB2 should work near 100% for any single GPU?)... especially considering the price-jump of the MBPs. I *really* hope Apple revises the mini and/or brings out something like a headless iMac.

I'd actually like to pick up a quad-core mini, but I wonder at what point it might get cut off for OS support. Drat'd Apple for taking everything back to dual-cores. :(
 
Oh… I wonder which is his favourite gaming platform – PC/Windows?
If the hardware was better (from my viewpoint), I'd definitely go with Mac OS X. But because I find the hardware lacking as of the last few years, I'd go with a Linux PC for my next computer.
 
If the hardware was better (from my viewpoint), I'd definitely go with Mac OS X. But because I find the hardware lacking as of the last few years, I'd go with a Linux PC for my next computer.

Yes, for all of their advantages (especially in the past), Macs have typically not been strong gaming computers. I guess that never really was the focus, though, to be fair. There are other reasons people would want good GPUs though. Hopefully Apple gets their act together on the eGPU front, as that would pretty much solve the problem in a way that's good for everyone on the platform. (i.e.: doesn't add to the cost, or create excessive numbers of models for people who don't need it, but allows adding about any GPU to even a lower-end machine.)
 
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Yes, for all of their advantages (especially in the past), Macs have typically not been strong gaming computers. I guess that never really was the focus, though, to be fair. There are other reasons people would want good GPUs though. Hopefully Apple gets their act together on the eGPU front, as that would pretty much solve the problem in a way that's good for everyone on the platform. (i.e.: doesn't add to the cost, or create excessive numbers of models for people who don't need it, but allows adding about any GPU to even a lower-end machine.)

Even the eGPU scenario doesn't look very likely considering apple's current mentality. Such a solution would have to use standard PCIe connection instead of something proprietary, and apple to start including nVidia in their plans again (eGPU or not, drivers will still be needed). Also it should be user-replaceable. That's not aligned with today's apple at all.
 
Even the eGPU scenario doesn't look very likely considering apple's current mentality. Such a solution would have to use standard PCIe connection instead of something proprietary, and apple to start including nVidia in their plans again (eGPU or not, drivers will still be needed). Also it should be user-replaceable. That's not aligned with today's apple at all.

No, it's just software and drivers. Look at the top few articles here: http://barefeats.com

You stick a GPU of choice in an external case, and plug into TB2 or TB3. Problem solved. Currently, though, you have to tweak some system files a bit, and yes use models of cards supported by the OS. But, there are actually quite a few.
 
Apple are blameless here. They have baked amazing technologies into OS X El Capitan that blow Windows out of the water. It's up to developers to take advantage of all the power and capabilities of the world's most advanced operating system. It appears Blizzard are not capable of getting the job done.

Obvious troll is obvious.
 
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If the hardware was better (from my viewpoint), I'd definitely go with Mac OS X. But because I find the hardware lacking as of the last few years, I'd go with a Linux PC for my next computer.

I understand you totally. So much more going on on the hardware side of things if using MacOS is omitted.

Yes, for all of their advantages (especially in the past), Macs have typically not been strong gaming computers. I guess that never really was the focus, though, to be fair. There are other reasons people would want good GPUs though. Hopefully Apple gets their act together on the eGPU front, as that would pretty much solve the problem in a way that's good for everyone on the platform. (i.e.: doesn't add to the cost, or create excessive numbers of models for people who don't need it, but allows adding about any GPU to even a lower-end machine.)

I hope this will be the case too, but I'm also having some doubts…
 
Except Apple doesn't take 15 years to release sequels

Yeah they just take years to recall products that have confirmed hardware design flaws or manufacturing errors or outright ignore confirmed and well documented problems with their devices and claim users are "using them wrong".
 
To pour salt in the wound, Blizzard is open to porting it to the Switch http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20..._but_admits_porting_game_would_be_a_challenge

not sure why they would be open to it on the Switch, but not the Mac...

You're not sure? Seriously? Surely you must jest. Nintendo has like a gazillion users historically for gaming and Apple has like 1000 people that want to game on it. I'm one of those people (don't really want to own two computers anymore and a console is not a direct replacement for PC style gaming), but Apple doesn't CARE about 1000 people. Of course if it had better gaming capabilities maybe other people would consider a Mac for gaming in the future particularly if it can also run Windows 10 in the mean time. Is it really so hard to offer a REAL GPU on a desktop Mac, for example? Surely Thunderbolt 3 could handle an external hub with a real graphics card. Certainly the richest tech company in the world can afford to throw together a product or two and see how the market responds? No no no. We have to make more phones instead.

Oh for the days when Mac Vs. PC commercials were actually funny instead of the Apple phONE. (no longer the iPhone in V8. Have to follow the new convention. The "i" has to go! Apple phONE running phONEy OS).
 
You're not sure? Seriously? Surely you must jest. Nintendo has like a gazillion users historically for gaming and Apple has like 1000 people that want to game on it. I'm one of those people (don't really want to own two computers anymore and a console is not a direct replacement for PC style gaming), but Apple doesn't CARE about 1000 people. Of course if it had better gaming capabilities maybe other people would consider a Mac for gaming in the future particularly if it can also run Windows 10 in the mean time. Is it really so hard to offer a REAL GPU on a desktop Mac, for example? Surely Thunderbolt 3 could handle an external hub with a real graphics card. Certainly the richest tech company in the world can afford to throw together a product or two and see how the market responds? No no no. We have to make more phones instead.

Oh for the days when Mac Vs. PC commercials were actually funny instead of the Apple phONE. (no longer the iPhone in V8. Have to follow the new convention. The "i" has to go! Apple phONE running phONEy OS).
I see your point, but the GPU (at least the Radeon Pro 460) is pretty much the same as the one in the PS4. The game runs there, so it should run here as well.
 
No, it's just software and drivers. Look at the top few articles here: http://barefeats.com

You stick a GPU of choice in an external case, and plug into TB2 or TB3. Problem solved. Currently, though, you have to tweak some system files a bit, and yes use models of cards supported by the OS. But, there are actually quite a few.

That is correct, but I was referring to devices officially supported by apple (if there ever will be such devices) as an official workaround for the total lack of upgradeability. I mean, apple could just give their approval for something like this, but I just don't see the possibility to let you use any eGPU case you want. They could just "bless" some specific models, or go totally proprietary with some external case of their own (that I'd bet it won't be a standard PCIe).
 
I see your point, but the GPU (at least the Radeon Pro 460) is pretty much the same as the one in the PS4. The game runs there, so it should run here as well.

My point is that they aren't going to bother for one or two Mac models that can run it. How many users are there on Macs that want to play that game period, let alone have capable hardware? Now if they would offer a Thunderbolt GPU box (or someone would) for a REASONABLE price (not as much as buying another Mac), there might be more incentive in the future. Consoles also tend to be highly optimized and Apple won't even update their damn graphics drivers once in a blue moon, let alone like they do on Windows or a console.
 
If the hardware was better (from my viewpoint), I'd definitely go with Mac OS X. But because I find the hardware lacking as of the last few years, I'd go with a Linux PC for my next computer.
Despite my many issues with Windows 10, I do think that Microsoft has done right by the gamers in the design of that OS. As long as I only have to spend about a minute in it loading a game, Windows 10 is great, and Direct X 12 is a vast improvement over its predecessors.
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That is correct, but I was referring to devices officially supported by apple (if there ever will be such devices) as an official workaround for the total lack of upgradeability. I mean, apple could just give their approval for something like this, but I just don't see the possibility to let you use any eGPU case you want. They could just "bless" some specific models, or go totally proprietary with some external case of their own (that I'd bet it won't be a standard PCIe).
They have been pushing Thunderbolt as the answer to expandability concerns for years, and the whole time they've been apparently waiting for third-party manufacturers to step up to the plate. Only a few have actually done so, unfortunately, but those actions tell me that Apple is, at least in this case, open to just using the standard PCI-e slot in external enclosures and just letting the market and consumers figure out what's best.

That being said, I think you're right in that they could "bless" the whole concept far more effectively by just including better driver support for more cards.
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My point is that they aren't going to bother for one or two Mac models that can run it. How many users are there on Macs that want to play that game period, let alone have capable hardware? Now if they would offer a Thunderbolt GPU box (or someone would) for a REASONABLE price (not as much as buying another Mac), there might be more incentive in the future. Consoles also tend to be highly optimized and Apple won't even update their damn graphics drivers once in a blue moon, let alone like they do on Windows or a console.
Well, to be fair, Blizzard could optimize for Metal and probably get the game running well on a wide range of hardware, and get much better support from Apple's end. But as you said earlier, there just aren't that many people gaming on Macs who want Overwatch and don't already have it on another platform, so it's probably nowhere near worth the expense.

I mean, I'm a pretty big PC gamer, and I love my Macs, but I already own and play Overwatch on my Windows box and I've got no need to play it on my Macbook Pro. The only gaming I do on my Macs are ports of older games (because I don't want Aspyr to go under) and really old stuff in emulators (because macOS is great for emulation).
 
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