Bloomberg: Apple Working on New Apple TV With Integrated HomePod Speaker and FaceTime Camera

[HudsonSteele]

I've been saying this for years. They need an apple branded media center and especially one with a FaceTime camera. I hated when they changed FaceTime to not be able to mirror properly to Apple TV. You used to be able to airplay your FaceTime call, put it in landscape and put your phone by your TV so the whole family could be on FaceTime and see the other person.

 

[AEWest]

I don't see how an ATV soundbar would sell any more than the ATV or HomePods do, and the latter was discontinued due to lack of sales. Especially if it's priced like typical Apple products. I don't see how minimum pricing comes in under $599. It's going to have roughly the cost of two HomePods, an ATV, a camera, and HDMI ports, so somewhere around $800 based on standalone devices. I'm sure we can knock off a bit of cost due to synergies of manufacturing one product instead of multiple though. If something like this launches it will end with the same conclusion as the HomePod, discontinuation due to lack of sales.

What Apple needs to do is to launch a sub-$100 barebones 'Apple TV' that can be used for streaming video and music. Then they need to also launch an 'Apple TV Pro' than has the latest X or Z-type A-series chip that can also handle gaming and include the latest A/V standards and tech available, i.e. 4K/8K, HDR, Atmos, HDMI 2.1, etc. Honestly the 'Pro' wouldn't be all that different from the existing ATV, just with up to date hardware. Most current ATV buyers would opt for the Pro, at least on the primary household TV, and then add the basic ATV to other TVs in the house. Both of these would sell far more than an ATV/soundbar, which would be an incredibly niche product. No need to look any further than the HomePod for the evidence.

I think it would sell better than the HomePod, which was just for music, not TV. Soundbars are very popular right now - when people upgrade their TVs they want better sound, not just picture. Every audio maker is making them now, even high end manufacturers like Bower and Wilkens, Bang & Olufsen. But they tend to have crappy software.

Apple shouldn't target the high end though (too small a market), a $500 bar that is similar to a Sonos Beam but with ATV.

 

[gnomeisland]

I don't see how an ATV soundbar would sell any more than the ATV or HomePods do, and the latter was discontinued due to lack of sales. Especially if it's priced like typical Apple products. I don't see how minimum pricing comes in under $599. It's going to have roughly the cost of two HomePods, an ATV, a camera, and HDMI ports, so somewhere around $800 based on standalone devices. I'm sure we can knock off a bit of cost due to synergies of manufacturing one product instead of multiple though. If something like this launches it will end with the same conclusion as the HomePod, discontinuation due to lack of sales.

What Apple needs to do is to launch a sub-$100 barebones 'Apple TV' that can be used for streaming video and music. Then they need to also launch an 'Apple TV Pro' than has the latest X or Z-type A-series chip that can also handle gaming and include the latest A/V standards and tech available, i.e. 4K/8K, HDR, Atmos, HDMI 2.1, etc. Most current ATV buyers would opt for the Pro, at least on the primary household TV, and then add the basic ATV to other TVs in the house. Both of these would sell far more than an ATV/soundbar, which would be an incredibly niche product. No need to look any further than the HomePod for the evidence.

I dunno. I hope the new 'TV' is not only available as a soundbar but watching the HomePod flounder made me realize how the soundbar is the home audio system for the average consumer (in the USA at least). That isn't to say that everyone has one, but they aren't as niche as I thought. Plus, while you can get cheap soundbars the ones with comparable tech to the HomePod (atmos beam-forming, SQ, etc.) cost at least as much as two HomePods.

I'm optimistic that if Apple releases this product, it will fall in $500-700 range. The Sonos Arc MSRP is $800—over double the original HomePod price—for a total of 11 drivers while a dual HomePod setup has 16 drivers and cost $600 (often $400) before getting the axe. Apple is masterful as repurposing their silicon, so the actual unit cost there is relatively low (iPhone, iPad, and now Mac will cover R&D costs) and depends mostly on RAM and SSD configs. Same with their camera tech.

Apple has all the components and IP, it really just depends on if they think they can provide a compelling user experience. Fingers crossed!

 

[emedina2021]

Apple is working on a combined Apple TV with HomePod speaker that has a camera for video calls through a connected television set, according to Bloomberg's Mark Gurman.

From the report:
Following disappointing sales, Apple discontinued its original high-end HomePod in March, leaving many wondering if the company was working on a successor. The HomePod mini, which launched last year, has been much more popular thanks to its lower price.

Apple unified its engineering teams for HomePod and Apple TV last year, suggesting an integrated device offering the best of both worlds could be in the offing.

However, according to today's report, the product's development is still in the early stages, and Apple could choose not to launch the product or change key features.

Apple is known to be working on an updated version of the Apple TV that will allegedly have a gaming focus with an updated remote control, a faster processor, and increased storage capacity, although it seems likely that today's report is referencing another potential future product. Signs of the new Apple TV have been showing up in iOS since January 2020, so we are expecting to see a new Apple TV launch in 2021.

Today's report also mentions that Apple is working on a concept for a future HomePod design that has an iPad connected via a robotic arm, which could follow users around a room during video calls.

Article Link: Bloomberg: Apple Working on New Apple TV With Integrated HomePod Speaker and FaceTime Camera

What apple needs to do is- fix their "No response" or get out of the smart home business. The saddest part about apple is their lack of Homekit attention. Apple is no longer a "Just works" company. Trust me- I have a billion smart devices. Since day one of IOT development.

 

[vipergts2207]

I think it would sell better than the HomePod, which was just for music, not TV. Soundbars are very popular right now - when people upgrade their TVs they want better sound, not just picture. Every audio maker is making them now, even high end manufacturers like Bower and Wilkens, Bang & Olufsen. But they tend to have crappy software.

Apple shouldn't target the high end though (too small a market), a $500 bar that is similar to a Sonos Beam but with ATV.

Cheap sound bars are popular. The higher in price you go on home audio, the more likely someone is to go traditional home theater. That's not to say there aren't expensive soundbars, but clearly Apple expects to move a certain amount of product to consider a product commercially viable. And those sound bars are also more functional than Apple deigned to make the HomePod or the mini. They couldn't even be bothered to make them usable as a regular bluetooth speakers, which is otherwise built-in functionality. Would we really expect them to play nice with all the other devices one may have in their entertainment center?

 

[DevNull0]

Cheap sound bars are popular. The higher in price you go on home audio, the more likely someone is to go traditional home theater. That's not to say there aren't expensive soundbars, but clearly Apple expects to move a certain amount of product to consider a product commercially viable. And those sound bars are also more functional than Apple deigned to make the HomePod or the mini. They couldn't even be bothered to make them usable as a regular bluetooth speakers, which is otherwise built-in functionality. Would we really expect them to play nice with all the other devices one may have in their entertainment center?

Also even more middle than high end, an $800 pair of tower speakers and matching centre will blow any soundbar on the market at any price point out of the water on performance. And 20 years from now, those speakers will still have all the latest bells and whistles as soon as you connect a new receiver. An apple sound bar you buy today will be unusably obsolete 5 years from now.

My dad is using good 30+ year old speakers and still has airplay and bluetooth on them because it's a feature supplied by the much more modern (and inexpensive) receiver.

The point being, it is a very, very tiny niche of people who will spend much on a speaker system and then be happy with them being obsolete in a few years. You have sub $400 ones that are mass marked to people who don't care, but once you pass that price point, you get into enthusiasts who want more than a sealed appliance for their money. There isn't much of a market for exceptions to that.

 

[AEWest]

Cheap sound bars are popular. The higher in price you go on home audio, the more likely someone is to go traditional home theater. That's not to say there aren't expensive soundbars, but clearly Apple expects to move a certain amount of product to consider a product commercially viable. And those sound bars are also more functional than Apple deigned to make the HomePod or the mini. They couldn't even be bothered to make them usable as a regular bluetooth speakers, which is otherwise built-in functionality. Would we really expect them to play nice with all the other devices one may have in their entertainment center?

If the soundbar can be used with the Homepod minis as extra speakers for surround sound, that would add to the value proposition. Also, they could throw in a year subscription to Apple TV+ and Apple Music.

 

[AEWest]

Also even more middle than high end, an $800 pair of tower speakers and matching centre will blow any soundbar on the market at any price point out of the water on performance. And 20 years from now, those speakers will still have all the latest bells and whistles as soon as you connect a new receiver. An apple sound bar you buy today will be unusably obsolete 5 years from now.

My dad is using good 30+ year old speakers and still has airplay and bluetooth on them.

The point being, it is a very, very tiny niche of people who will spend much on a speaker system and then be happy with them being obsolete in a few years. You have sub $400 ones that are mass marked to people who don't care, but once you pass that price point, you get into enthusiasts who want more than a sealed appliance for their money. There isn't much of a market for exceptions to that.

The tower speakers will sound better. But many people want a simple soundbar in the family room, not a Receiver, big speakers, and cables running throughout the room. The Sonos Beam is hugely popular right now at $400.

 

[Shearwater]

But to most consumers, it is for most purposes.

It simply isn't!

 

[gnomeisland]

Granted I've been wrong a couple times in my life (my wife never let's me forget), but this sounds like a weird combination.

1. An Apple TV with a single speaker? Do people not want stereo sound anymore when watching TV?

2. The large HomePods weren't popular because they were considered too expensive. How does throwing in an Apple TV, a screen, and a remote make it any less expensive?

3. Does this combination provide anything unique? We can already do FaceTime calls with our phones, laptops and tablets quite easily. We already have media streamers in all our TVs built in. Many of us already have smart speakers in our homes.

In short, I hope I am wrong again, but I struggle to see the value of this "product".

I disagree. While that doesn't really matter (since nothing I say here will affect any product Apple releases) here's my perspective as someone who's thought way too long about Apple's place in home A/V.

1. What do you mean by "single speaker"? The HomePod mini has a single speaker but the OG HomePod has 8 built-in speakers and produces (albeit not true stereo) spatial audio effects on its own. A pair of OG HomePods can recreate not just stereo but a Dolby Atmos soundstage, although limited on height and rear audio. A HomePod sound bar, like any mid- high-end sound bar, would have no problem creating stereo separation and is likely to handle Atmos and surround sound even better than a pair of OG HomePods.

2. The OG HomePod was a vastly misunderstood product but I concede it was perceived as too expensive. However, that's largely because it was instantly categorized as a smart speaker and compared to Amazon's Echo and Google's Home. Soundbars are a big market with the cheapest (name brand) options costing around $150 and even $500-700 models selling out. I predict if Apple releases this product it won't be cheaper than an OG HomePod but it will be less than two combined ($700 original MSRP). That would make Apple the value leader in that mid-tier space.

3. Personally, I think if Apple releases this product tomorrow it will still be a year too late. While I've kinda wanted a product like this for at least as long as I've had a HomePod, isolating at home with a working spouse (lots of video meetings) and school age child (again, lots of meetings with school, family, and friends) I'm so tired of the kludgy work arounds to get quality video chatting to work on our biggest and best screen in the house. Yes, we all have devices that can video chat but especially if we try to do it together it just gets awkward.

The only advantages of this product over built-in streaming apps are better privacy, future proofing (AppleTV 3rd gen still works for many services and it came out in 2012!), a better UIX, and mid-tier gaming (prob comparable to PS4). Apple is invest a LOT of money into AppleTV (the service) and Apple Arcade. Yes, you can access those services through apps and AirPlay built-in to other devices, but Apple Hardware and Apple UI keeps Apple front of mind and gives users an "Apple" experience which is very important and I think Apple believes that too.

Combining hardware also gives Apple the chance to release a "value" priced product without cutting costs. The original iPhone was expensive compared to the majority of cell phones sold in 2007 but it was much cheaper than buying a cell phone, iPod, and a PDA (email was a killer feature back then!). Watch Steve Job's announce the OG iPad and he very carefully lays out the value proposition, ending the intro with a dramatic reveal of the $499 price to audible gasps and applause. Apple's stratospherically priced products (Pro Display XDR stand, Mac Pro Wheels, etc.) get a lot of mind space in the media but historically many of Apple's successful products were initially pitched as a killer value for the money. The AppleTV (hardware) and OG HomePod are now seen as overpriced, but a device that elegantly combines both with the power of a video game console and video chatting for the whole family (that you can trust!) for less than the three devices combined, could be pitched as a real "value" buy.

This product, if it gets released, won't be for everybody. The question is will it be for enough people? The OG HomePod, despite being a flop by Apple's standards still sold nearly 7 million units in 2019 (estimated, the last year it was Apple's only smart speaker, harder to estimated the mini/OG breakdown in 2020). For most home audio companies that cater to mid-fi or hi-fi markets those are solid sales numbers. However, Apple sold 60 million AirPods that same year.

I think millions of people would find a product like this compelling. How high are Apple's expectations?

 

[gnomeisland]

Maybe Facebook Portal is more popular than I’d expected... ?

I know they advertise hard so maybe people are buying them for their non-tech savvy relatives

Anecdotally the problem with Portal was Facebook. Several members of my family considered it but Facebook's horrible privacy record killed the idea. This product would reinforce/benefit from the blue bubble phenom and the rush of third parties to port their video chat apps to the hardware. AFAIK Portal was limited to Facebook messenger.

 

[vipergts2207]

The tower speakers will sound better. But many people want a simple soundbar in the family room, not a Receiver, big speakers, and cables running throughout the room. The Sonos Beam is hugely popular right now at $400.

An ATV soundbar will suffer the issues of almost certainly being more expensive than the Beam, while also being less functional, as well as containing a critical component that will become outdated relatively quickly. Any soundbar/receiver has it's own issues regarding eventually becoming outdated with regard to A/V standards, but that issue will be even more pronounced with built-in ATV hardware. Will you proceed to replace your soundbar every 2-3 years when Apple releases an updated version? That's an expensive proposition to most. While soundbars are the more popular way to augment your entertainment center audio, most are probably happily using ones older than 2-3 years. Audio gear is rarely a 'replace frequently' segment. I don't think most people will put up with that kind of expense, again bringing me back to my point of this theoretical product being niche and creating non-viable volume for Apple.

Just as an example, I'm still happily using a receiver I bought in 2016. In that time, we've had the ATV 4, ATV 4K, and presumably soon the next-gen ATV. How much money would those three cost if they had been soundbars? Are you happy paying that price that frequently? I'd say most aren't.

 

[MallardDuck]

An ATV soundbar will suffer the issues of almost certainly being more expensive than the Beam, while also being less functional, as well as containing a critical component that will become outdated relatively quickly. Any soundbar/receiver has it's own issues regarding eventually becoming outdated with regard to A/V standards, but that issue will be even more pronounced with built-in ATV hardware. Will you proceed to replace your soundbar every 2-3 years when Apple releases an updated version? That's an expensive proposition to most. While soundbars are the more popular way to augment your entertainment center audio, most are probably happily using ones older than 2-3 years. Audio gear is rarely a 'replace frequently' segment. I don't think most people will put up with that kind of expense, again bringing me back to my point of this theoretical product being niche and creating non-viable volume for Apple.

Just as an example, I'm still happily using a receiver I bought in 2016. In that time, we've had the ATV 4, ATV 4K, and presumably soon the next-gen ATV. How much money would those three cost if they had been soundbars? Are you happy paying that price that frequently? I'd say most aren't.

Exactly. The only reason I updated my main amp was to get updated HDCP and 4k support (and because Apple dropped the TOSLink output). The old now (from 2001) is in my office, where it replaced the old one that recently died (from 1992), and is hooked up to an airport express via TOSLink and quad B&W speakers (from 1985).

I'll take great audio equipment with standard interfaces that lasts decades over an integrated system with meh audio that has to be replaced every few years any day of the week.

 

[sfkeepay]

”...with an updated remote control...” Update it. Back date it. Ask it to the prom - live your truth. Just please give us a remote not dedicated to vanishing between sofa cushions, newspaper sections, the glutes of certain guests, etc.

 

[DevNull0]

The tower speakers will sound better. But many people want a simple soundbar in the family room, not a Receiver, big speakers, and cables running throughout the room. The Sonos Beam is hugely popular right now at $400.

Yes certainly. And as I said, plenty of people will spend $400 for a "disposable" sound bar/speaker that barely sounds better than the TV's internal speakers. But once you get up much beyond that in price, you price out that kind of person.

 

[AEWest]

Yes certainly. And as I said, plenty of people will spend $400 for a "disposable" sound bar/speaker that barely sounds better than the TV's internal speakers. But once you get up much beyond that in price, you price out that kind of person.

It comes down to what the consumer wants. Currently soundbars are quite popular, and most sound much better than built in speakers. They are also part of systems where extra wireless speakers can be added for surround sound.
Built in amps, voice control, etc. provide a different value proposition than ultimate sound quality of a component system with passive speakers. To each his own!

 

[incoherent_1]

Granted I've been wrong a couple times in my life (my wife never let's me forget), but this sounds like a weird combination.

1. An Apple TV with a single speaker? Do people not want stereo sound anymore when watching TV?

2. The large HomePods weren't popular because they were considered too expensive. How does throwing in an Apple TV, a screen, and a remote make it any less expensive?

3. Does this combination provide anything unique? We can already do FaceTime calls with our phones, laptops and tablets quite easily. We already have media streamers in all our TVs built in. Many of us already have smart speakers in our homes.

In short, I hope I am wrong again, but I struggle to see the value of this "product".

Totally agree! Exactly. Not to mention...

4. Who wants a small, single speaker where they keep their Apple TV? Most Apple TV’s are in the TV console under your TV — which is right next to your TV and/or next to where you’d keep your much larger and better sounding sound bar. I can’t see many people in search of an all-in-one mini speaker for that location.

5. If this were true, why not announce it in concert with the discontinuation of the HomePod?

 

[ix400]

Eh, bundling a bunch of stuff together that we didn't ask to have combined.
I don't think this makes sense. I really can't see the point. Never mind the practical nightmare of having to place the speaker so that the camera is reasonably positioned for picking up your face for video conferencing - all while it has to be physically connected to the TV display for streaming. Ugh.

... yes, a very bad idea.

I simply would like to have a „normal“ Apple TV with a faster chip, more memory and a proper remote controller.

 

[UBS28]

But what happens if you want to have stereo sound? You then have to buy 2 Apple TV's? Do you get twice the processing power also when you buy 2 Apple TV's, or does the other just remain inactive and only acts as a 2nd speaker?

 

[UBS28]

Most people have a smart TV now with the Apple TV app built in. I don’t think we actually need a separate Apple TV box anymore.

Indeed, I have Apple TV on my smart TV. But I can also stream from my iPhone or Mac to my smart TV, movies from Apple TV.

 

[Zorori]

But what happens if you want to have stereo sound? You then have to buy 2 Apple TV's? Do you get twice the processing power also when you buy 2 Apple TV's, or does the other just remain inactive and only acts as a 2nd speaker?

Perhaps consumers are expected to buy this as their `centre/front` speaker set, then combine it with some HomePod minis to create a wireless surround setup?

 

[UBS28]

Perhaps consumers are expected to buy this as their `centre/front` speaker set, then combine it with some HomePod minis to create a wireless surround setup?

As long as the height is restricted such that it doesn't block the screen, I suppose it could work. The current HomePod would not work as an example.

 

[RamGuy]

Granted I've been wrong a couple times in my life (my wife never let's me forget), but this sounds like a weird combination.

1. An Apple TV with a single speaker? Do people not want stereo sound anymore when watching TV?

2. The large HomePods weren't popular because they were considered too expensive. How does throwing in an Apple TV, a screen, and a remote make it any less expensive?

3. Does this combination provide anything unique? We can already do FaceTime calls with our phones, laptops and tablets quite easily. We already have media streamers in all our TVs built in. Many of us already have smart speakers in our homes.

In short, I hope I am wrong again, but I struggle to see the value of this "product".

It's tough to say with such limited information.

I suppose it could be a soundbar with an integrated Apple SoC, making it capable of running tvOS. Then you pretty much have a Apple TV integrated into a speaker that should still be capable of providing you stereo sound and some lacklustre surround sound by trying to reflect audio off your walls and ceiling.

I have a hard time thinking the design will be anything like the original HomePod or the current Apple TV models. If that proves to be the case, then it seems like a rather silly product.

 

[RamGuy]

I already suggested this #1 #2 and everyone laughed at me.

HomePod on its own is lame. Apple TV is a commodity. Who better than to combine the functionality?

It might become a commodity for some. My main issue with moving Apple TV / tvOS into a speaker is that the speaker's lifespan tends to be quite a bit longer compared to whatever SoC and software Apple is putting into the device.

A good sounding soundbar should be capable of lasting for a very long time. Whatever SoC and software Apple are integrating into it will become end-of-support long before the speaker itself feels outdated.

I don't want my home theatre software to be directly linked to my speakers or my television, for that matter, as the software will feel out-of-date and slow long before I will feel any need to replace the speakers or the television itself.

This is the whole reason why I'm not using WebOS on any of my LG OLED's. And WebOS is known to be some of the best Smart-TV software solutions out there. Not to mention how much ads and tracking these companies have started to add to their Smart-TV software.

Apple TV is rather cheap and it provides me with a much better experience without any ads or tracking. And it's getting updated all the time. Something WebOS on my Smart-TV certainly isn't. LG abandons it as soon as your TV is getting 1-2 years old. Your one-year-old TV doesn't even get the latest version of WebOS.

 

[Prince Akeem]

I fervently hope this rumor is NOT true. Besides being totally impractical, I thought Apple recognized an audience that cares about their privacy and don't want another overload of idle camera's and microphones in their living rooms!

(Yes I know the home-pod has an idle microphone, that's why I don't have one. And yes, I also know the AppleTV Siri Remote has one, but that one is OK because it's only active/on on demand e.g. while pressing the button.)