Bloomberg: Apple's 5G iPhone Still on Schedule for Fall Launch, But Future Products Could Be Delayed

[cbusbuck]

Apple's building of products in China where workers are abused/not paid fair wages and also where the people are repressed is antithetical to American values... it should be against Apple's values as well, or at least it used to be.

You cannot possibly be this naive. Exploiting workers (and slaves in the old days) as well as consumers, no matter where they reside, IS and has always been the American way and by extension Apple's as well. Saying otherwise is simply whitewashing and virtue-signaling. But I take Apple's current way of doing business is antithetical to your personal values. If so, vote with your wallet and cancel Apple.

Apple could lead on this if it chose to, and it could make these products built in America affordable worldwide. Unfortunately, it's chosen a different path, and that's a shame.

Apple is neither responsible for nor able to fix our education system to produce a workforce capable of realizing the complex supply chains necessary for making (not just assembling) products in America. With the interminable and precipitous decline of STEM education, the dream of setting up American supply chains and American production will remain just that: a dream.

Would the economic benefits of building in America be realized primarily in America? Of course. It's an American company.

Apple is not an American company. Rather, it's a shareholders' company that happens to be incorporated and headquartered in America. The minute corporate tax laws become unfavorable – a big if – you can be sure Apple will pull up stakes and migrate elsewhere. The wealthy have no country, and to quote Thomas Jefferson, "the mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains."

Nationalism is for the poor. The wealthy (demigods) are truly without borders.

 

[IPPlanMan]

When? It was under Jobs that the factories in Cork and Fremont closed.
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Sounds like you’re answering your own question. It was literally Steve, not Tim, who killed Elk Grove.

That's right... They did. However, I think Steve would see what's happening here and make new investments in American jobs and factories. Tim just doesn't feel the same about it.

 

[cbusbuck]

That's right... They did. However, I think Steve would see what's happening here and make new investments in American jobs and factories. Tim just doesn't feel the same about it.

Steve Jobs was the one who first moved production to China.

 

[IPPlanMan]

Steve Jobs was the one who first moved production to China.

And now it should be moved back.

 

[44267547]

Steve Jobs was the one who first moved production to China.

....because Jobs had to, not because he necessarily wanted to. The company was growing with product expansion (Obviously with the iPhone), and ’Jobs’ can’t overnight create manufacturing in the U.S, when it already pre-existed in China. Steve Jobs and Tim Cook Would be forced to share the same vision of manufacturing in China, because we don’t have the grounds that China does for manufacturing capabilities, plus, it’s relatively cheaper to produce in China than it is in the U.S.

 

[cbusbuck]

And now it should be moved back.

Yes, I agree. Pray BIG.

 

[chucker23n1]

....because Jobs had to, not because he necessarily wanted to. The company was growing with product expansion (Obviously with the iPhone), and ’Jobs’ can’t overnight create manufacturing in the U.S, when it already pre-existed in China.

Yes, well, that was in the early 2000s, when Apple was selling ~10 million Macs a year. Now they sell ~200 million iPhones a year — a growth of more than an order of magnitude.

So if the move was needed then, it's even more prudent now.

 

[IPPlanMan]

You cannot possibly be this naive. Exploiting workers (and slaves in the old days) as well as consumers, no matter where they reside, IS and has always been the American way and by extension Apple's as well. Saying otherwise is simply whitewashing and virtue-signaling. But I take Apple's current way of doing business is antithetical to your personal values. If so, vote with your wallet and cancel Apple.



Apple is neither responsible for nor able to fix our education system to produce a workforce capable of realizing the complex supply chains necessary for making (not just assembling) products in America. With the interminable and precipitous decline in STEM education, the dream of setting up American supply chains and American production will remain just that: a dream.



Apple is not an American company. Rather, it's a shareholders' company that happens to be incorporated and headquartered in America. The minute corporate tax laws become unfavorable – a big if – you can be sure Apple will pull up stakes and move elsewhere. The wealthy have no country, and to quote Thomas Jefferson, "the mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains."

There's nothing naive about what I'm saying. I'm talking about the here and now. Not history or grievances.

Apple isn't responsible for anything more than paying its taxes if you want to be literal about it. However, I would expect more from them than that. It seems you don't. Apple has the financial means to be a leader in revitalizing American manufacturing and STEM. Instead it's chosen to do stock buybacks with its tax break.

Apple is an American company. Period. If Apple chooses to move elsewhere, then it's the essence of hypocrisy on their part. What else can be done to make corporate tax laws more favorable to Apple at this point? They were able to repatriate tons of cash. (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/17/it-...arly-all-of-its-250-billion-foreign-cash.html) Unfortunately, they spent funds on buybacks that should have gone towards standing up manufacturing in America.

 

[cbusbuck]

....because Jobs had to, not because he necessarily wanted to. The company was growing with product expansion (Obviously with the iPhone), and ’Jobs’ can’t overnight create manufacturing in the U.S, when it already pre-existed in China. Steve Jobs and Tim Cook Would be forced to share the same vision of manufacturing in China, because we don’t have the grounds that China does for manufacturing capabilities, plus, it’s relatively cheaper to produce in China than it is in the U.S.

You cannot possibly speak to Jobs' intentions or whether he gave two sh!ts about where his products are made. Did you ask him about his decision process or interview living witnesses?

It's also obvious your over-active imagination is filling the void where genuine knowledge of history should reside. Steve Jobs moved production to China LONG before iPhone/iPad was even conceived out of Steve's personal distain for a boastful Microsoft executive.

 

[IPPlanMan]

Yes, well, that was in the early 2000s, when Apple was selling ~10 million Macs a year. Now they sell ~200 million iPhones a year — a growth of more than an order of magnitude.

So if the move was needed then, it's even more prudent now.

More prudent now? How?

 

[chucker23n1]

More prudent now? How?

Where are you going to get 800,000 factory workers in the US?

 

[cbusbuck]

There's nothing naive about what I'm saying. I'm talking about the here and now. Not history or grievances.

Apple isn't responsible for anything more than paying its taxes if you want to be literal about it. However, I would expect more from them than that. It seems you don't. Apple has the financial means to be a leader in revitalizing American manufacturing and STEM. Instead it's chosen to do stock buybacks with its tax break.

Apple is an American company. Period. If Apple chooses to move elsewhere, then it's the essence of hypocrisy on their part. What else can be done to make corporate tax laws more favorable to Apple at this point? They were able to repatriate tons of cash. (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/17/it-...arly-all-of-its-250-billion-foreign-cash.html) Unfortunately, they spent funds on buybacks that should have gone towards standing up manufacturing in America.

You expect Apple, an entity that "has the financial means to be a leader in revitalizing American manufacturing and STEM" but instead "chosen to do stock buybacks with its tax break" to change its ways? And you deny you are being naive?

As for Apple being an American company, it is American on a technicality. Mere paperwork can change all that.

But I know, you want to talk about "the here and now". So, when will you cancel Apple? I kid, I kid.

 

[IPPlanMan]

Where are you going to get 800,000 factory workers in the US?

One at a time.

Build a plant. Start hiring. I hear people are looking for work.

There's a precedent for American manufacturing. See World War II: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_home_front_during_World_War_II

The unemployment problem of the Great Depression ended with the mobilization for war. Out of a labor force of 54 million, unemployment fell in half from 7.7 million in spring 1940 (when the first accurate statistics were compiled) to 3.4 million in fall 1941 and fell in half again to 1.5 million in fall 1942, hitting an all-time low of 700,000 in fall 1944.[11]There was a growing labor shortage in war centers, with sound trucks going street by street begging for people to apply for war jobs.

Greater wartime production created millions of new jobs, while the draft reduced the number of young men available for civilian jobs. So great was the demand for labor that millions of retired people, housewives, and students entered the labor force, lured by patriotism and wages.[12] The shortage of grocery clerks caused retailers to convert from service at the counter to self-service. With new shorter women clerks replacing taller men, some stores lowered shelves to 5 feet 8 inches (1.73 m). Before the war, most groceries, dry cleaners, drugstores, and department stores offered home delivery service. The labor shortage and gasoline and tire rationing caused most retailers to stop delivery. They found that requiring customers to buy their products in person increased sales.

[13]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_home_front_during_World_War_II#cite_note-kennett1985-13

What happened?

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You expect Apple, an entity that "has the financial means to be a leader in revitalizing American manufacturing and STEM" but instead "chosen to do stock buybacks with its tax break" to change its ways? And you deny you are being naive?

As for Apple being an American company, it is American on a technicality. Mere paperwork can change all that.

But I know, you want to talk about "the here and now". So, when will you cancel Apple? I kid, I kid.

I'm not being naive. Apple has the ability to do this and it's made a decision not to.

American on a technicality.... ok then.

I do want to talk about the here and now. It's easy to go down a rabbit hole of grievances from history. That keeps us in that history, not the present. As for canceling Apple, I don't plan to cancel because the other companies aren't any better. That doesn't mean I can't have an opinion about it.

 

[Cosmosent]

Buyer Sentiment now "trumps" ANY & ALL manufacturing concerns !

 

[JPack]

One at a time.

Build a plant. Start hiring. I hear people are looking for work.

America doesn't even have a single LCD plant. Forget about talented workers with the appropriate skills for high-tech manufacturing. You can't simply copy and paste a plant. It takes decades of fostering by the government to encourage technical education, the supply chain, and finally manufacturing.

Look at these jobs that Apple is hiring for in Shanghai. There's no chance of finding qualified people in the U.S.

• Display Investigation Engineer
• Display In Region Mechanical Engineer
• Tooling Process Engineer

From a macro perspective, it also make no sense to build in America. It doesn't have the largest smartphone consumer market.

 

[cbusbuck]

I'm not being naive. Apple has the ability to do this and it's made a decision not to.

American on a technicality.... ok then.

I do want to talk about the here and now. It's easy to go down a rabbit hole of grievances from history. That keeps us in that history, not the present.

It's not grievance studies if it's rooted in history, in cold hard facts, in data. Everything else is just advertising bulls!t, which the advertisers are well advised not to buy. Oooops, too late.

And I disagree that Apple has the ability to transform American education, for education isn't mostly a money problem. It's a societal problem, a cultural problem, a family problem, a parenting problem, a national decline problem, among others, and money alone can't solve them. If it could, the Federal Reserve would be infinitely better equipped than Apple to solve it.

Apple can, however, use its financial firepower to build factories full of fancy imported robots, but who will man them? It requires a rigorous STEM education to mind the robots. Alas, China is much better suited for that.

As for canceling Apple, I don't plan to cancel because the other companies aren't any better. That doesn't mean I can't have an opinion about it.

If other companies aren't any better than Apple, then why not cancel all of them? Or are you downgrading your personal values to the status of mere personal opinions? You know what they say about opinions: they cost nothing. 😛

 

[fbr$]

The Fable of The Bees: or, Private Vices, Publick Benefits (1714)

"Mandeville's social theory and the thesis of the book, according to E. J. Hundert, is that "contemporary society is an aggregation of self-interested individuals necessarily bound to one another neither by their shared civic commitments nor their moral rectitude, but, paradoxically, by the tenuous bonds of envy, competition and exploitation".[1] Mandeville implied that people were hypocrites for espousing rigorous ideas about virtue and vice while they failed to act according to those beliefs in their private lives. He observed that those preaching against vice had no qualms about benefiting from it in the form of their society's overall wealth, which Mandeville saw as the cumulative result of individual vices (such as luxury, gambling, and crime, which benefited lawyers and the justice system)." (wikipedia)

 

[Icaras]

It's not gonna sell. Absolutely nobody needs an iPhone with incremental features this year.

Wait a year. Bring out a better bigger new iPhone when we all have survived.

iPhone 12 is a considered a “supercycle”. Redesigned with new sizes and 5G. I want that smaller 5.4” NOW. On the contrary, this will be one of the best selling iPhone lines to date and my wallet is ready.

 

[The Game 161]

iPhone 12 is a considered a “supercycle”. Redesigned with new sizes and 5G. I want that smaller 5.4” NOW. On the contrary, this will be one of the best selling iPhone lines to date and my wallet is ready.

Projected 300 million but that was before CV...depends the state of the world come September

 

[cbusbuck]

The Fable of The Bees: or, Private Vices, Publick Benefits (1714)

"Mandeville's social theory and the thesis of the book, according to E. J. Hundert, is that "contemporary society is an aggregation of self-interested individuals necessarily bound to one another neither by their shared civic commitments nor their moral rectitude, but, paradoxically, by the tenuous bonds of envy, competition and exploitation".[1] Mandeville implied that people were hypocrites for espousing rigorous ideas about virtue and vice while they failed to act according to those beliefs in their private lives. He observed that those preaching against vice had no qualms about benefiting from it in the form of their society's overall wealth, which Mandeville saw as the cumulative result of individual vices (such as luxury, gambling, and crime, which benefited lawyers and the justice system)." (wikipedia)

It's basic psychology. Also rooted in biology. Virtue-signaling is a means to improve self-esteem and maintain self-worth vis-a-vis one's peers. At its core, it's a d!ck-waving exercise to one-up a fellow schmuck. Very similar to parading one's financial status through conspicuous consumption, such as wearing Gucci and gold chains and driving exotic imports. The brain rewards this uncouth behavior with a release of dopamine, which we equate with happiness. It really all boils down to dope. Gotta get that next fix.

We are all slaves to dopamine, but there are healthier ways of getting it than smoking crack or virtue-signaling.

💊💊💊🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

 

[fbr$]

Build American Factory...

Please watch this on Netflix:

 

[QCassidy352]

It's not gonna sell. Absolutely nobody needs an iPhone with incremental features this year.

Wait a year. Bring out a better bigger new iPhone when we all have survived.

Same could be said of every iPhone release because nobody ever “needs” a new iPhone if they have the prior gen. Like every single other model, this will not be primarily targeted to buyers of the 11/11 pro. As someone with a 3 year old 7, I’ll certainly buy one.

 

[Paradoxally]

Moving production to the USA would be a tremendous jobs creator. You'd actually see a substantial jump in GDP. That's how big of an effect it would be.

This is unfeasible for two big reasons (if not many more):

1- You will not find the same workers in the US that you can find in China. Not in volume, not in manufacturing proficiency, and certainly not in labor cost (and other expenses like facility operations and logistics).

2- We are in the middle of a global pandemic with the likely outcome being that China will become the world's leading economy. Meanwhile, the US will have a hard recession and is looking at around a 30% unemployment rate.

I can go further but these two reasons alone seal the deal of why you will never see US production for the majority of Apple's products.

 

[Jd3774life]

It's not gonna sell. Absolutely nobody needs an iPhone with incremental features this year.

Wait a year. Bring out a better bigger new iPhone when we all have survived.

Let's be honest.. nobody has probably "needed" to upgrade yearly since like.. the 5S but we still do

 

[Justanotherfanboy]

Apple could do it if it wanted to. It just likes its profit margins too much, that's all.

Moving production to the USA would be a tremendous jobs creator. You'd actually see a substantial jump in GDP. That's how big of an effect it would be.

However, there's something else that your statement reveals: that it would cost more here. You mean that it would reflect the reality of a fair wage with worker protections vs the worker abuse that occurs in China?

Apple could readily eat the additional cost and make these products here in the USA. They just choose profits over people, that's all. You underestimate the production efficiencies that could be reached in the USA.

Nope.
I did the math for funsies one time.

For Foxconn to move ONLY just a single one of their factories here (the largest- 400k workers); say to Los Angeles.... they’d literally have to hire 1 out of every 8 of the entire population to staff up.
Doesn’t sound crazy enough for you?
That doesn’t take into account those that are already employed... or those under 18... or those retired... or those unwilling or unable to perform the work... or the fact that there’s no spot in L.A. that you could fit a business that size & the infrastructure necessary to maintain it... or (biggest one right here!) it is the height of insanity to spend enormous amounts of money & hire hundreds of thousands of people to briefly perform jobs that are all but certainly among the first to be replaced in the very near future by AI.
I could go on- but hopefully you get it.
This isn’t even worth running a feasibility study on; its so blatantly clear that Apple moving manufacturing here both makes no sense & would be a near impossibility.