Blu-Ray declared to be new format over HD-DVD

[Counterfit]

new powerbooks have HD resolution now, right? But yet you can't actually play anything "HD" on them yet, because there isn't a bluray or HD drive... is this correct.

No. Apple has some trailers that are available in 780p and 1080p H.264 on their site.

digital 8 (lost to minidv big time)

Digital 8 was more of a temporary thing anyway. It's just a Hi-8 tape, that has been digitally recorded to. All D8 camcorders can read Hi-8 and 8 just fine, which is good for people who wanted to make those movies digital.

 

[Harthansen]

Whoa, major time warp...you must be living in 2003, because that's the only way you could have written that with a straight face. Seriously, dual-layer Blu-ray has been available for ages, and they're working on 8-layer discs now.

However, you're right to bring up the PS3, because the Blu-ray/HD-DVD thing is not at all limited to which movies are cheapest. Computer and video game use is a big chunk of the DVD market now, and that will be true for the next standard as well. Right now, it looks like the PS3 makes Blu-ray the standard in that area by default.

--Eric

They have devolped these 2x 4x 8x multi layer discs in labs only on both sides. Blue_ray is no where near ready to release Dual Layer Blue-Ray discs. Sony says by mid to late 2006 they be able to produce them on mass scale, them in a press release from Sony, and the PS3 was suppose to be out this year Windows Vista/Longhorn was suppose to be out last year, and Intel said they would have 5GHZ Pentium 5 chips by now in a press releases by each of them. I.E. Press releases are not the most trustworthy source of info, becuase they are biased. Right now no one is even preparing to produce anything on dual layer Blue-Ray discs. Currently the only format that comes in Dual Layer format is HD-DVD. So Flat out Blue Ray maxes out at 25GB, and HD-DVD maxes out at 30GB. Every fact I write I always check first here is just one major story on ZDnet dated 9/25/2005 (You can also find on a number of sites with the same article becuse it was picked up by the Assosiated Press.) Not to mention I have read this over and over again as being Microsoft's and others reason for backing HD-DVD. Because HD-DVD is built based on DVD technology they are already ahead technology wise in being able to create dual layer on a massive scale because they can make Dual layer DVD's. It is also the reason you have duplication houses backing HD-DVD, becuase they won't have to upgrade all their expensive equiptment. It also why the hardware makers like Blue-Ray better. So they have to buy all new more expensive equiptment from them. HD-DVD still requires upgrades but the cost is less then half of Blue-Ray. IT still doesn't mean this battle si anywhere near over. The funny thing is sony could make PS3 play HD-DVD's because the support PS2 DVD's, for almost no cost to them but they know that the PS3 is BLue-Rays Best hope. I myself am undecided, I just like the durability of HD-DVD's over Blue-Ray. DVD's scratch easily enough, Blue-Ray is worse.
Here is the link to the article.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/carroll/index.php?p=1494

Here is a direct Quote from this article:
This is the battle between Betamax and VHS, but with better looking artillary. Betamax was technically better than VHS. The same can be said of Blu-Ray. Both formats read their data using a 405nm wavelength blue-violet laser. Blu-Ray, however, stores approximately 25GB of data on a single-layer disk, while HD-DVD stores 15GB (note: someone recently pointed out that Blu-Ray dual-layer discs don't currently exist, while HD-DVD dual-layer discs do, which makes HD-DVD, at 30GB on a dual-layer disc, the current size leader)
-Hart

 

[Harthansen]

new powerbooks have HD resolution now, right? But yet you can't actually play anything "HD" on them yet, because there isn't a bluray or HD drive... is this correct.

No the 17" Powerbook only goes up to 1650x1080 (I'm not sure about the height I might be off by 50 pixels either way) 1080i HD resolution is 1920 x 1080, you have to buy a 23" cinema display to get true HD resolution. You can however watch 720p just fine resolution 1440 x 720.

Apple DVD player will sort of play HD-DVD's. It just won't read them. If you make an HD-DVD in DVD studio (or iDVD 5 now also I think) and burn it to a DVD or a Dual Layer DVD it will play it in HD 1080i or 720p. But it won't read HD-DVD's or blueray. You can order a Blue-Ray computer drive (expensive) from Japan where they are already popular, and hook it up to your mac then it will play the movies in on a mac, with a monitor that can handle 1080i. But, hey in Japan the PS3 comes out in like 2 weeks.

-Hart

 

[sushi]

I'd say it's a bit early on to be declaring the winner..there's a long battle to be played out yet.

Unfortunately, I think you are correct. Then again, maybe that is fortunate.

One thing for certain, the one who will loose with the dual standards is the customer.

Sushi

 

[Eric5h5]

I.E. Press releases are not the most trustworthy source of info, becuase they are biased.

True, but the Panasonic DMR-E700BD seems to be relatively real, given by what I saw here.

And here's some press release stuff: "The Panasonic DMR-E700BD can record 4.5 hours of digital satellite high-definition television when used with 50GB dual-layer Blu-ray Disc Rewritable format discs, says Etsuji Shuda, director of Panasonic’s AVC Networks home AV business unit, at a Tokyo news conference.

This extends to six hours for digital terrestrial HDTV and nine hours for standard definition digital satellite TV. Analog television can be recorded for between 10.5 hours and 63 hours depending on the quality mode selected."

Pretty expensive right now though. Like almost $3000. But new tech always starts out really expensive for the very first units.

--Eric

 

[Skareb]

Forrester Research has "determined" that Blu-Ray will be the new standard for the replacement to DVDs

That's like saying SACD will replace the CD and that DVD-A is doomed.

Unlike the VHS vs. BetaMAX of the 1980's where both formats required different players. The 8cm Dics standard that has been around since the birht of the CD, will allow product makers to develop players that support both formats, because the media is the same. Only the software is different. Assuming of course that the laser is suitable for both tasks.

Jordan

 

[the future]

They have devolped these 2x 4x 8x multi layer discs in labs only on both sides.

Wrong. There have been 4 and 8 layer Blu-ray discs developed in labs, but not multi-layer HD-DVD discs. The highest HD-DVD was ever supposed to go was two layers (30 GB), later on they added a 3 layer model (in the lab) to persuade Disney to release movies on HD-DVD (which didn't work). All of this matters little wrt prerecorded media, as there is only dual-layer in both specs, resulting in 30 GB max for HD-DVD and 50 GB max for Blu-ray.

Blue_ray is no where near ready to release Dual Layer Blue-Ray discs.

Depends on your definition of "near". At launch, there probably won't be many DL-BRDs, maybe only a few prestige titles. 1-2 years later every movie will probably be dual layer. Remember how DVD started? Exactly like this. DVD-5 (i.e. 1 layer) for 1-2 years, later on almost all DVD-9 (i.e. 2 layers).

So Flat out Blue Ray maxes out at 25GB, and HD-DVD maxes out at 30GB.

For the first 1-2 years. After that, HD-DVD will still be stuck at 30 GB, while BR will be at 50 GB.

Not to mention I have read this over and over again as being Microsoft's and others reason for backing HD-DVD.

MIcrosoft backs HD-DVD because the PS3, the biggest threat to the Xbox 360, uses Blu-ray, and because HD-DVD implements iHD, an interactive layer MSFT co-developed and will get royalties for, instead of BD-J, a form of Java that Blu-ray uses.

It is also the reason you have duplication houses backing HD-DVD, becuase they won't have to upgrade all their expensive equiptment. (...) HD-DVD still requires upgrades but the cost is less then half of Blue-Ray.

Duplication houses have zero influence over the outcome of this "format war", though. Content is king, so the Hollywood studios call the shots (and, to a lesser extent, retailers; see below).

I just like the durability of HD-DVD's over Blue-Ray. DVD's scratch easily enough, Blue-Ray is worse.

BS. With hardcoat, Blu-ray will scratch far less easily than DVD or HD-DVD. This has been demonstrated a long time ago.

As of today, Blu-ray has 85% (5 of 6 Hollywood studios) behind it, while HD-DVD has only 45% (3 of 6): Sony, Disney and Fox will release in Blu-ray only, Paramount and Warner Brothers just rcently said they will also release on Blu-ray (they were HD-DVD only before), leaving just Universal in the HD-DVD only camp - for now. It is widely expected that Universal will follow Paramount's and WB's lead. When one format has all the movies and the other format less than half, retailers will not waste shelf space on the second format. This game is over unless something very unexpected happens.

Some links.
Studio perspective:
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/051020/206035.html?.v=1
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/051020/206033.html?.v=1
Retailer perspective:
http://www.idc.com/research/iw_ding_ding_ding.jsp

 

[djlu]

I think that Microsoft is supporting HD-DVD because Toshiba is supporting things that will give Microsoft royalties.

In particular they want iHD over BD-J. They want VC-1 over H.264.

They want MMC - Multiple managed copy.

They want to control the video space and squeeze out Apple so that iTunes video (or what ever Apple might rename it) will not become standard.

Doug

 

[Vanilla]

Personally I think it's a no brainer. PS3 will be a massive trojan horse for Blue-Ray to enter into the vast majority of peoples homes. Game over.
Vanilla

 

[Lacero]

Personally I think it's a no brainer. PS3 will be a massive trojan horse for Blue-Ray to enter into the vast majority of peoples homes. Game over.

That's a common fallacy. Blu-ray for PS3 will do butt-kiss for blu-ray for general HD consumers. Just because PS3 will have blu-ray doesn't mean it will be the dominant format. If that were the case, why don't we see movies distributed on cartridges?

 

[Vanilla]

That's a common fallacy. Blu-ray for PS3 will do butt-kiss for blu-ray for general HD consumers. Just because PS3 will have blu-ray doesn't mean it will be the dominant format. If that were the case, why don't we see movies distributed on cartridges?

To consume HD-DVD the consumer will need to purchase a HD-DVD player. However, with PS3 the vast majority of consumers will already have a unit in their home ready to play one of the new HD formats. That will in my opinion trigger a significant increase in sales for Blue-Ray formatted content, which will trigger yet more content to be made available in that format. That is why I feel the PS3 will help Blue-Ray to quickly establish itself as the standard. It's only a theory of course, time will tell, but for me it's a compelling one.
Vanilla

 

[cheekyspanky]

...with PS3 the vast majority of consumers...

I think you overestimate how many people will buy a PS3. A lot more single unit DVD players have been sold than PS2s.

 

[LethalWolfe]

I think that Microsoft is supporting HD-DVD because Toshiba is supporting things that will give Microsoft royalties.

In particular they want iHD over BD-J. They want VC-1 over H.264.

They want MMC - Multiple managed copy.

They want to control the video space and squeeze out Apple so that iTunes video (or what ever Apple might rename it) will not become standard.

Doug

Right now I refuse to support Blu-Ray unless they implement something like HD-DVDs MMC. With all the b*tching that goes on about DRM and the like I can't believe how many people are lining up behind the more restrictive of the two formats.

The whole size thing is completely irrelevant for home entertainment use. Considering the compression that is going to be used both camps have more space than they know what to do with.


Lethal

 

[DrNeroCF]

The format that can be copied easiest will be the winner. Period.

 

[Skareb]

The format that can be copied easiest will be the winner.

I somewhat support this point of view

 

[xparaparafreakx]

Does anyone know what format the Porn people will support?

 

[LethalWolfe]

Does anyone know what format the Porn people will support?

My guess would be HD-DVD because of cost.


Lethal

 

[greatdevourer]

I personally want HDDVD to win, because BluRay burners don't last long (apparently they need replacing every 3 months or summat, which is beyond ghey)

 

[Skareb]

BluRay burners don't last long (apparently they need replacing every 3 months

care to quote a source for this information?

 

[the future]

Right now I refuse to support Blu-Ray unless they implement something like HD-DVDs MMC. With all the b*tching that goes on about DRM and the like I can't believe how many people are lining up behind the more restrictive of the two formats.

BR *will* have MMC. It's in AACS, which is used for both formats. Plus Warner Brothers made it a condition that BR will absolutely not tinker with that (AACS is not finalized yet). And MMC will not be free, studios see this as another way to charge you for the movie you just bought, so I don't see this "feature" becoming very important and most people will not use it anyway. And please don't fool yourself, both formats will be *extremely* secure and the DRM/copy protection will not be broken easily.

I personally want HDDVD to win, because BluRay burners don't last long (apparently they need replacing every 3 months or summat)

I personally think this is the most ridiculous post I have read in a very long time. Even if you should have read this somewhere (which I doubt), how you could believe a rumour as utterly idiotic as this one is quite astonishing. Or you have a *very* dry sense of humor...

 

[Harthansen]

When one format has all the movies and the other format less than half, retailers will not waste shelf space on the second format. This game is over unless something very unexpected happens.
For the first 1-2 years. After that, HD-DVD will still be stuck at 30 GB, while BR will be at 50 GB.

OK Dr Future,
If you say it like you are the expert in the topic does that mean what you are saying is correct? NO. There are at least two articles including the one I posted before that directly contradict what you are saying. I am pretty sure there is at least one more fact you are completely wrong on. I will hold off on that one as I am a little tired to look it up.
I am sorry for my late reply but I did just get stuck by Hurricane Wilma and have gone without power and internet for about a week now. I still am stuck with a dial up connection until cable is working again.

Wrong. There have been 4 and 8 layer Blu-ray discs developed in labs, but not multi-layer HD-DVD discs. The highest HD-DVD was ever supposed to go was two layers (30 GB), later on they added a 3 layer model (in the lab) to persuade Disney to release movies on HD-DVD (which didn't work). All of this matters little wrt prerecorded media, as there is only dual-layer in both specs, resulting in 30 GB max for HD-DVD and 50 GB max for Blu-ray.

WRONG! I love that you sound like the chick from the weakest link.

That is incorrect.

HD-DVD has created four layer HD-DVD's and they are working on 8 layer in the lab. You are the weakest link.
There is an article in timemagazine.com just search for blue-ray vs HD-DVD.

The guy between our little fight posted something that I think is the most intellegent thing said here in this thread. He said something about it not mattering because DVD players will just come with the ability to play both formats, and maybe Bluy-Ray's will win in the end. Because they can expand blue-ray further then HD-DVD.
I really don't care which side wins. I just want a tough version of the consumer burnables. HD-DVD offeres waay more then Blue-Ray does in that area and I was ponting that out. That OK Dr. Dingleberry :| :|

I am a big Apple stockholder so it would be better for me if Blue-ray wins in the end. The guy is right HD-DVD players after the first year will just play both formats, unless there is no competition what so ever and one format just totally wins.

Duplication houses have zero influence over the outcome of this "format war", though. Content is king, so the Hollywood studios call the shots (and, to a lesser extent, retailers; see below).

Who do you think will have to pay the duplication houses? The studio's Dr. Future. Quick Doc to the future mobile... The studios will pay for the extra equipment costs. They will have to pay for it in every Blue Ray disc that is made.

BS. With hardcoat, Blu-ray will scratch far less easily than DVD or HD-DVD. This has been demonstrated a long time ago.

Alas Hard Coat will only be available to the Mass duplicators, if you are using your computers blue-ray burning drive to back up irreplaceable family memories or top secret data that James Bond needs to return to MI-6. James is going to lose all his data when he slides behind the big white van in the parking garage, to avoid AK-57 gunfire. Because Hardcoat must be applied after you burn the discs.

This just in...

As of yet no plans to distrubute The Blue Ray hard coat in spray can for the general public. Now Back to Jen and some tibeten monks give us some secret tips on how to stop a leaky tampon. That is lovely hair you are waring, Jen. and May I Say! Your tampon seems very unleaky.

[JENN] (Blushing) Thank you Bill. Now...

Bored Now

-Hart

 

[iJed]

50G Blu-ray soon

Just to clarify something, contrary to the claims of Microsoft, 50G dual-layer Blu-ray disks will be available in spring of next year:
http://www.panasonic.co.jp/corp/news/official.data/data.dir/en051005-3/en051005-3.html

We also have the first drives appearing in next month from AOpen (before HD-DVD drives are available):
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/78692/aopen-claims-bluray-drives-by-the-end-of-november.html
Not sure about media in this case.

Blu-ray has to be the winner this of this generation. While it has a ton of evil anti-consumer DRM it is by far the superior format. At least for once the better technology looks like it is going to succeed.

The one thing that really interest me about the Blu-ray specification is the inclusion of BD-J. Having a Java VM (and J2ME) on every Blu-ray player will make it possible to come up with some really interesting disks. It may even be possible to write rich applications and some simpler games. BD-J supports local data stores as well as networking.

What really scares me about HD-DVD is Microsoft iHD (which would provide similar functionality to BD-J). Microsoft obviously does not want to see the JVM dominating on the next generation optical disk format. I am unsure of exactly what iHD is (since little information seems to exist on it) but I am guessing that it is .NET based. This is certainly not a good thing.

 

[takao]

i still have yet to see a hd-dvd / blue ray drive on the market and even when both launch at the same time it's still a matter of cost

all this talking about 8 times layer this or that or "players will be released in 5 months" etc. still is kinda irrelevant _now_