MacRumors

macrumors bot
Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
53,424
15,154
MacOSRumors, based on a reader email, claims big Bluetooth announcements at MacWorld -- including Bluetooth keyboards/mice as well as hints at other Bluetooth-related announcements at MacWorld Expo.

The source of these rumors come from the recent Bluetooth developers conference -- similar rumors already were reported by The Inquirer on Dec 12th. The rumor from that article simply indicated that all Apple laptops and desktops would contain Bluetooth functionality. No mention of Bluetooth'd Keyboards and Mice.

 

Silver Dragon

macrumors member
May 7, 2002
45
0
Minneapolis
Bluetooth in all computers

I would *love* to see bluetooth enabled computers across Apple's entire line. an iMac with no cables for the mouse or keyboard would be awesome!

I already have my SE t68i and soon to get SE P800 to replace it, having bluetooth built in to my TiBook would be a great help.

I'm excited!
 

scem0

macrumors 604
Jul 16, 2002
7,028
1
back in NYC!
this is good news. I was really hoping for my next computer
to have a wireless bluetooth mouse and keyboard. Hopefully a
mouse with a right click button and a scroll wheel? I don't want
to get my hopes up though because there is a good chance this
rumors isn't true at all :(. I hope it is though ;).
 

springscansing

macrumors 6502a
Oct 13, 2002
922
0
New York
Can I ask why the heck bluetooth is so great? I mean... you're all excited over a wireless mouse. Well guess what: You can already buy a wireless mouse!

Mostly this is directed at yet another idiotic scem0 post, but it goes for all of you: What's so hot about bluetooth that you'll use on a daily basis that you can't do now unless you have like a bluetooth enabled PDA or something? Not much I do not think.
 

springscansing

macrumors 6502a
Oct 13, 2002
922
0
New York
And Silver Dragon, your signature is wrong. Apple owns the G5 trademark, not motorola. The 970 could very well be the G5 if Apple wanted.
 

Silver Dragon

macrumors member
May 7, 2002
45
0
Minneapolis
Spring, I don't think you quite get Bluetooth. It's not just for mice and keyboards (although that will be cool since we won't have to rely on IR anymore) but it's for cell phones, PDAs, headsets, any item that would require a not-so-fast connection to your computer. You could use Bluetooth security devices to gain access to your OS, you could use bluetooth keychains as portable drives (kinda like a USB drive but wireless) you could use it for controlling your home security system, controlling a printer, controlling a scanner (although those last two may be too much bandwidth for bluetooth, but who knows). The possiblilites are endless. Use your imagination, this is just the start of a whole new wireless revolution where any device can talk to any other device without cables.

It's cool. Very, very cool.
 

Chad4Mac

macrumors 6502
Apr 20, 2002
299
0
Los Angeles
Originally posted by springscansing
Can I ask why the heck bluetooth is so great? I mean... you're all excited over a wireless mouse. Well guess what: You can already buy a wireless mouse!

Mostly this is directed at yet another idiotic scem0 post, but it goes for all of you: What's so hot about bluetooth that you'll use on a daily basis that you can't do now unless you have like a bluetooth enabled PDA or something? Not much I do not think.

Well, we could always just use cables for the rest of our lives!

I for one hate cables. I use my USB Bluetooth Adapter with my T68i to back up my phone numbers and contacts several times a week, and also input new numbers. The last thing I need is another cable to connect my phone to my TiBook. That would lead to more cludder on my desk and another cable to carry around in my bag. Hell no.

I would love wireless speakers too. A Keyboard and a mouse (must have a Sony Memory Stick slot) -- all with the little Apple logo on it.

Cables need to go -- they're old fashion!

Chad4Mac
 
Originally posted by springscansing
Can I ask why the heck bluetooth is so great? I mean... you're all excited over a wireless mouse. Well guess what: You can already buy a wireless mouse!

Mostly this is directed at yet another idiotic scem0 post, but it goes for all of you: What's so hot about bluetooth that you'll use on a daily basis that you can't do now unless you have like a bluetooth enabled PDA or something? Not much I do not think.

I don't know much about Bluetooth, but here's some stuff I recall:

1. It's a standardized technology. Current wireless mouse, for example, needs a specific receiver unit on the CPU side. Without the standardization, you'd need one receiver for each wireless product.
2. Less energy consumption than WiFi.
3. Much faster than WiFi (***I was wrong about this, as edvniow has pointed out!!!!)

It's the kind of technology we take as granted just like WiFi; once we start using it we just forget about it. They take care of the connection themselves. I kind of understand why you are not so excited about it. It's just another connection standard like USB or FireWIre. We are not talking about a fancy-fancy new product like iPod here. It's an everyday kind of standardized technology. I personally think it would be totally cool when my cell, Palm, iPod and TiBook talk and sync to each other without my instructions though!

Also, there are many NEW stuff, rather than the wireless versions of today's products, they can make with Bluetooth tech.

As a heavy WiFi user myself, I'm totally confident that wireless will be the future :cool:
 

ryan

macrumors 6502
May 17, 2002
283
0
Denver, CO
What happens if you're in a classroom type setting where there is a dozen Macs all with Bluetooth keyboards and mice? Will a given Mac know which keyboard/mouse combinatino it's suppose to be "listening" to?
 

primalman

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2002
619
3
at the end of the hall
Originally posted by springscansing
And Silver Dragon, your signature is wrong. Apple owns the G5 trademark, not motorola. The 970 could very well be the G5 if Apple wanted.

Motorola actually already has a G5 chip out, for about a year or 18 months too. It is an embedded chip. Motorola DOES call it a G5.

But it is not exclusive, and I do not think that they have applied a copyright filing. Apple could use the name.

I have this feeling that Apple will cease to use the Gx moniker for anything further, perhaps got the xName system for Pro machines?
 

vniow

macrumors G4
Jul 18, 2002
10,266
1
I accidentally my whole location.
Originally posted by yamadataro


3. Much faster than WiFi.

Bluetooth is actually slower than Wi-fi, slower than USB even. It does consume much less power but it's definately not any faster.

Edit: whoops, I see you removed it right after I quoted you.
embarassing.gif
 

primalman

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2002
619
3
at the end of the hall
Originally posted by springscansing
And Silver Dragon, your signature is wrong. Apple owns the G5 trademark, not motorola. The 970 could very well be the G5 if Apple wanted.


Motorola actually already has a G5 chip out, for about a year or 18 months too. It is an embedded chip. Motorola DOES call it a G5.

But it is not exclusive, and I do not think that they have applied a copyright filing. Apple could use the name.

I have this feeling that Apple will cease to use the Gx moniker for anything further, perhaps got the xName system for Pro machines?
 
Originally posted by ryan
What happens if you're in a classroom type setting where there is a dozen Macs all with Bluetooth keyboards and mice? Will a given Mac know which keyboard/mouse combinatino it's suppose to be "listening" to?

Bluetooth has shorter radius than WiFi so your keyboard and mouse does not get signals from all of the computers in the classroom. And it probably has channels like WiFi does. On WiFi it was like 12 channels per basestation, I guess?

An addition:I'm sure that Bluetooth devices will all have serial numbers/IDs just like WiFi devices.
 

pilotgi

macrumors regular
Jul 22, 2002
193
4
I hope they mean that bluetooth will be integrated into all new Macs instead of offering wireless peripherals that use the usb bluetooth dongle.
 

lmalave

macrumors 68000
Nov 8, 2002
1,614
0
Chinatown NYC
Originally posted by springscansing
Can I ask why the heck bluetooth is so great? I mean... you're all excited over a wireless mouse. Well guess what: You can already buy a wireless mouse!

Mostly this is directed at yet another idiotic scem0 post, but it goes for all of you: What's so hot about bluetooth that you'll use on a daily basis that you can't do now unless you have like a bluetooth enabled PDA or something? Not much I do not think.

Yes, wireless devices exist now, but they require a hefty radio transmitter to be hooked up to the computer. If Apple built Bluetooth into all its computers, then you wouldn't need the stupid external transmitter (I know, I have Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse). Even the little wireless D-Link bluetooth dongle is a much cleaner solution than the stupid Logitech radio transmitter.

Personally, the killer device that will definitely make me want to go out and get a Bluetooth dongle for my iBook would be Bluetooth Wireless Headphones. I have a set of wireless headphones now, and I hate the fact that I have to connect the big, stupid transmitter to my iBook's headphone jack. Plus the sound quality is not that great -you get the analog radio static. With Bluetooth's digital 724Kbps transfer rate, you should be able to get a nice, clean sound from wireless headphones!!

The point is, Bluetooth is the future for any lower-bandwidth peripherals like input devices, cell phone/pda sync, cell phone as modem (since 2.5G wireless service is only 150Kbps anyway), printers, and possibly even scanners and digital camers (though connection would be a lot slower than the 11Mbps of USB 1.1).

The thing that's special about the Bluetooth protocol is its "automatic discovery" (kind of like the way that Rendezvous is for TCP/IP services). So, for example, a Bluetooth computer should automatically detect a Bluetooth printer that's within range.
 

ryan

macrumors 6502
May 17, 2002
283
0
Denver, CO
Originally posted by yamadataro


Bluetooth has shorter radius than WiFi so your keyboard and mouse does not get signals from all of the computers in the classroom. And it probably has channels like WiFi does. On WiFi it was like 12 channels per basestation, I guess?

An addition:I'm sure that Bluetooth devices will all have serial numbers/IDs just like WiFi devices.
Hmm... Bluetooth has a radius of ~2m which could easily encompass a number of Macs in a classroom or office/cubicle, but as you said if it has channels the proximity of other machines wouldn't be an issue.
 

Glossybear

macrumors member
Oct 1, 2002
94
0
Hollywood CA
is it possible to have a Bluetooth transmitter Module that you could plug ANY USB device into to make it capable of transmitting via Bluetooth?

Are printers a viable option of bluetooth?
 

Silver Dragon

macrumors member
May 7, 2002
45
0
Minneapolis
Bluetooth mice and keyboard will need to be paired to their host computer. In other words, one keyboard will only work on one computer until that keyboard is paired to a new computer.

You can even password protect your bluetooth devices so other users can't steal your signal. It's well thought out. Fear not, all these devices will work in classrooms.

-SD
 

julzmon

macrumors member
Jul 17, 2001
52
0
NYC
Blue Teeth

What about power in the keyboard and the mouse?
I wonder how big and how long a battery would last.
I see that being a major factor for Apple implementing wireless alternatives.
 

eric_n_dfw

macrumors 68000
Jan 2, 2002
1,511
58
DFW, TX, USA
Re: Blue Teeth

Originally posted by julzmon
What about power in the keyboard and the mouse?
I wonder how big and how long a battery would last.
I see that being a major factor for Apple implementing wireless alternatives.
They'll be rechargable, just plug 'em into the Mac USB.... oh - that would defeat the purpose a bit, wouldn't it? ;)

Maybe they'll have a snap on, rechargable battery pack like those Black & Decker VersaPack (sp?) cordless tools. The charger port could be some holes on the back of the monitor, just within finger's reach from the front but not visable. That would help sell ADC flat panels!
 

jettredmont

macrumors 68030
Jul 25, 2002
2,731
328
Originally posted by Silver Dragon
Spring, I don't think you quite get Bluetooth. It's not just for mice and keyboards (although that will be cool since we won't have to rely on IR anymore)

Hmmm. You're using IR for a wireless mouse/keyboard? Seems odd. Logitech has had good wireless (non-BlueTooth) keyboard/mouse gear out for quite some time, and it runs great under Windows. I don't use it (not until battery life issues are resolved in other than the top-of-the-line model), but I'd be surprised if it doesn't work on a Mac as well.

but it's for cell phones, PDAs, headsets, any item that would require a not-so-fast connection to your computer.

Quite correct. Bluetooth is cool for these things. But I still see no reason behind this driving desire to have a BlueTooth mouse/keyboard. I mean, Wireless input devices are a bit ... well, not the best things from either a security standpoint (keyboard here more than mouse) or from a overall user experience standpoint (it really sucks when the battery in your mouse dies in the middle of a Quake frag-fest ... :) ) Granted, you free yourself from a few wires, which is a good thing (I'd love that to happen here), but the costs are a bit too high to be overly excited about wireless input devices in general. And, add to that that BlueTooth offers little over the previous wireless devices (although security is a bit more addressed with BlueTooth, the other wireless protocols might end up being more secure as BlueTooth security will be cracked and these other devices are more obscure ... not something to ride your enterprise on, but security through obscurity is better than nothing at all!)

You could use Bluetooth security devices to gain access to your OS

Bad idea. See above.

, you could use bluetooth keychains as portable drives (kinda like a USB drive but wireless)

... and dead slow ...


you could use it for controlling your home security system,

Again, bad idea. VERY bad idea! I find it hard enough risking the data on my computer to Bluetooth; there's no way I'd risk everything in my house and my own personal security on it as well!!!

controlling a printer, controlling a scanner (although those last two may be too much bandwidth for bluetooth, but who knows).

And pointless. How often do you move your printer around? Is the USB cable between it and your PC really an issue? Also note that add one bandwidth-sucking item like this on your BlueTooth airspace and you crowd out the few more reasonable uses for it.

The possiblilites are endless. Use your imagination, this is just the start of a whole new wireless revolution where any device can talk to any other device without cables.

It's cool. Very, very cool.

Cool, but as with all new tech there are a lot more "possibilities" being floated than there are practical, real-world uses. Bluetooth is great as a replacement for cables where all of the below are met:

1) You are or would be constantly plugging/unplugging the devices OR having a cable between the devices is restrictive

2) You don't need much bandwidth (786kbps over all such devices in your PAN)

3) You don't need rock-solid security

4) The devices, when connected, remain in relatively close proximity to one another (~30ft max range on BlueTooth, much less in real world).

Please keep these rules of thumb in mind when dreaming up uses for BlueTooth.
 

jettredmont

macrumors 68030
Jul 25, 2002
2,731
328
Originally posted by ryan
What happens if you're in a classroom type setting where there is a dozen Macs all with Bluetooth keyboards and mice? Will a given Mac know which keyboard/mouse combinatino it's suppose to be "listening" to?

BlueTooth devices will not connect all willy-nilly. When a new (ie, never seen before) Bluetooth mouse moves into your PAN (about 10 feet around you, maybe more, maybe less), you'll be able to go into a preference panel to allow that device to talk to you (I suspect that some classes of devices, like phones and PDAs, might pop up a connection request dialog when they come in range for the first time, but that devices like mice and keyboards would be ignored unless the user specifically went to BlueTooth Preferences and connected to them). Once two devices "know" that they are allowed to talk, they will reconnect automatically when in range of one another. "Dumb" devices like keyboards and mice accept connections from anything in their range, perhaps limitting it to a single connection at a time, but that's not too much of a problem for such devices as they don't contain any data in and of themselves. However, expect a wide range of classroom pranks based on goofballs associating different mice with different computers (or just moving the associated mice/keyboards to sit in front of a different computer). I can also envision trading a teacher's keyboard for another device when the teacher types in his password to his gradebook ... the underhanded and devious possibilities are endless.

Of course, I'd be surprised if any classroom uses wireless devices like this, as a cordless mouse is far too easy for a deviant to pocket and take home, and a bluetooth mouse wouldn't require the thief to take a receiver as well, as the receiver is standardized.
 

jettredmont

macrumors 68030
Jul 25, 2002
2,731
328
Originally posted by ryan

Hmm... Bluetooth has a radius of ~2m which could easily encompass a number of Macs in a classroom or office/cubicle, but as you said if it has channels the proximity of other machines wouldn't be an issue.

Note that the "radius" of any wireless device is a fictitious number. Radio wave intensity dies off in an inverse-square relationship relative to distance from the transmitting device. From a security standpoint this means that a Bluetooth transmission might be picked up, with the appropriate antenna, in your parking lot.

Design documentation for BlueTooth specifies a nominal range of 30 feet (~10 meters). While this will vary with the specific antennae used and broadcasting power, BlueTooth will intentionally encompass an entire room in one's "PAN".

Also, regarding "channels": Bluetooth has none. It uses frequency-hopping, not assigned channels, and is supposed to automatically detect a "used" frequency when it hops into it (note, however, that this is not good enough for 802.11b transmissions, which will slow down if BT is active in the area). You will not, for instance, have one BlueTooth channel (786kbps) for your printer and another for your scanner and another for your PDA; they will all share the 786kbps bandwidth (assuming BT can find a clean frequency set to use).
 
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