So your argument is that because only he and his bank manager knows means that he did? Yeah, makes sense.
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Bono Defends Steve Jobs Against Criticism Over Lack of Public Philanthropy
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So your argument is that because only he and his bank manager knows means that he did? Yeah, makes sense.
No you are assuming that because he didn't make a public statement about it that it means he never donated, there is simply no evidence that he didn't donate, maybe he didn't maybe he did donate there is no proof either way but to accuse him of not donating without any evidence of this fact is an outrageous slur.
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I am really confused why so many people come on an Apple fan forum and start being disrespectful to Steve, why can't they find an Android or Windows forum to start worshipping their heroes Schmidt and Ballmer ? this is an Apple fan site.
I'm not saying he does or does not donate for charitable purposes, but isn't Steve Jobs "Zen" Buddhist?
Most of the Abrahamic and Eastern Mystical "religions" look down upon people publicly making a big fuss about acts of charity (Because of Pride etc) and instead favour doing it privately away from the public. So if SJ does follow the teachings of his religion then the only people who would really know is the giving and receiving parties.
Most of the Abrahamic and Eastern Mystical "religions" look down upon people publicly making a big fuss about acts of charity (Because of Pride etc) and instead favour doing it privately away from the public. So if SJ does follow the teachings of his religion then the only people who would really know is the giving and receiving parties.
Wow, that is really cold!
And the last time I checked, I don't think there is much evidence that greed causes cancer.
I have no particular feelings about Jobs one way or another (although I have commented on others overly-adoring postings about him), but playing on his unfortunate illness is, IMO, way over the top.
A little humanity here, please.
There's no evidence that he did either, if you want to go in that direction with your argument.
And it's not usually up to the one donating to make it publicly known, often times it's usually the charitable entity that exposes the person or party so that gratitude can be given back. Not sure about you but if someone made a memorable change in my life, I'd like to know who that person or party is.
What you're saying is it's okay if people talk bad about anyone else but not Steve Jobs? Learning to deal with both positive and negative remarks is part of life, it's called "coping". Everyone has an opinion whether you approve of it or not, if you're the type that can only deal with those that always agrees with your own then I have bad news for you.
Am sure Steve and other anonymous donators would put a "no publicity" clause into any donations, i know I would do that if I was wealthy and didn't want any publicity
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Wow. Congratulations on the most offensive post I think I've ever read here
CWT1965 said:
Wow. Congratulations on the most offensive post I think I've ever read here
Sigh. Now see, you're guilty of the same sin you accuse us of committing; you assume that we don't know what we're talking about.
Do I know whether he's given to charity? No. But I don't claim to know, per se, I simply know that it's unlikely, given his personality of A.) Being rather self-centered, and B.) Letting the world know about pretty much all of his contributions in one way or another.
What I do know is what kind of person he is. No, I've never met him, though I know people who certainly have met and known him. I've also done a good deal of reading about him, written by people (i.e. Andy Hertzfield) who had quite a bit of experience dealing with him.
I know he's a total ass to work with, he's cheated people like Woz, done a number of illegal things to make money, and isn't much of a person. Can I say I witnessed it first hand? No, but I didn't witness the Holocaust either, yet I'm pretty sure it happened.
Then your argument here is...?
I do. But not all of us have billions of dollars to donate to save and/or improve tens of thousands of lives. If I did, I'd certainly donate a great deal.
Statements like this are basically worthless, actually. You're degrading people (without any actual evidence, or any sort of knowledge or background sociological understanding) in a sort of en masse ad hominem because you don't agree with them. And yes, it *is* only because you don't agree with them.
Anyone who owns an Apple computer is likely doing fine. Middle class at least. You seem to really have no conception of the reality of the world we live in; most people cannot afford a Mac. Where you live, where I live, almost everyone can. But not everyone lives where we live. Personally, my household income is over $250,000; certainly not rich, but not poor either. And yes, we donate thousands to charities. Not tens of thousands, but thousands.
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Absolutely not. Without Apple MS would have been stuck in DOS-land for God knows how long. Apple pioneered the personal computer, for everyone. Everything Gates learned he learned from Apple. Gates has always been, and forever will be, a student of Steve Jobs.
All MS did was license their OS universally. Which resulted in the mess that is Windows today.
Unfortunately no one around here will really care about that, much less understand.
It's fun in a way that this sparked such a long thread.
If you're rich, you're donating to charity. There are too many tax benefits not to. (If don't properly among other deductions, those donations can sometimes be a wash.)
I rather sometimes don't like when celebrities ram down your throat their charities and statements about them. There are times when there are causes that need someone to show support to garner them attention, but it's like when celebs try to be political activists to.
Anyone who thinks Jobs doesn't give to charity is clueless. Even if not out of the goodness out of his heart, he'd do so for the goodness of the almighty tax deduction.
I will say though, that Apple as a company isn't the most generous when it comes to charity or have the best showing.
If you're rich, you're donating to charity. There are too many tax benefits not to. (If don't properly among other deductions, those donations can sometimes be a wash.)
I rather sometimes don't like when celebrities ram down your throat their charities and statements about them. There are times when there are causes that need someone to show support to garner them attention, but it's like when celebs try to be political activists to.
Anyone who thinks Jobs doesn't give to charity is clueless. Even if not out of the goodness out of his heart, he'd do so for the goodness of the almighty tax deduction.
I will say though, that Apple as a company isn't the most generous when it comes to charity or have the best showing.
Originally posted by LTD:
Personally? No. But that's what he's being criticized for in the article this thread was started for. So yeah, that's what I'm... we're... talking about. Does that make sense?
Right.. and Henry Ford revolutionized the automobile and the assembly line. But I don't see the relevance of that, either...
That's sort of like saying "Einstein was too smart to do simple arithmetic."
Every second of his day isn't tied up. Giving to charity doesn't take very long. He's the CEO of a company (or was), not a prisoner in a Turkish prison. I mean, we KNOW he's got downtime simply by all the moronic emails he fields and responds to. Pretty sure he could be donating instead.
I'll say this once: No one's questioning his technological contributions. Yes, they're immense. No, they're not the subject of this thread. His contributions to industry have the same relevance to this discussion as Karl Marx's personal grooming habits.
We're not looking for more contributions to the industry. So no, I don't want more.
I'd love a list of ways he's added value to our lives, and a real explanation. And Gates is saving lives, by the way. It's only due to chance that you weren't born in a poor town in Uganda, or Afghanistan, or Kuwait. You were expelled from a birth canal in the Western world; congratulations. That's quite an accomplishment.
So what?
How exactly do you figure that?
By the way, I don't "line up" or "obsess" over the products on tech sites. Yes, I'm getting an iPhone 5 to replace my aging 5 year old flip phone. Yes, I'll be getting a new 17" MacBook Pro (when the new ones come out) to replace the Lenovo T500 that just died on me. But that doesn't equal obsession.
I'm actually typing this on a Beige G3; introduced in 1997, Jobs actually had nothing to do with it. As for Mac OS X... well, Jobs can't program. So make of that what you will.
Oh.. and by the way? All macs today are just PCs. They've got shiny metal boxes, but on the inside, they're all Intel. Okay, part ATI/AMD. Jobs has nothing to do with them.
Oh... is THAT what he was doing? He was doing it all for us, out of the goodness of his heart? Well shucks, I feel foolish!
It would seem that blind faith is the answer, then, judging from your little.. tirade. As far as faithlessness goes... how about Jobs? He makes promises all the time about his products lasting years down the road, then doesn't keep them. Is that not disloyalty to his followers? Honestly though, I don't see why I ought too swear allegiance to one of the contributors of the products I use. I use an awful lot of products.
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Right, but Jobs annual salary was $1; and unless he's selling his stock options, he's not going to need to pay much by way of taxes at all.
Personally? No. But that's what he's being criticized for in the article this thread was started for. So yeah, that's what I'm... we're... talking about. Does that make sense?
Right.. and Henry Ford revolutionized the automobile and the assembly line. But I don't see the relevance of that, either...
That's sort of like saying "Einstein was too smart to do simple arithmetic."
Every second of his day isn't tied up. Giving to charity doesn't take very long. He's the CEO of a company (or was), not a prisoner in a Turkish prison. I mean, we KNOW he's got downtime simply by all the moronic emails he fields and responds to. Pretty sure he could be donating instead.
I'll say this once: No one's questioning his technological contributions. Yes, they're immense. No, they're not the subject of this thread. His contributions to industry have the same relevance to this discussion as Karl Marx's personal grooming habits.
We're not looking for more contributions to the industry. So no, I don't want more.
I'd love a list of ways he's added value to our lives, and a real explanation. And Gates is saving lives, by the way. It's only due to chance that you weren't born in a poor town in Uganda, or Afghanistan, or Kuwait. You were expelled from a birth canal in the Western world; congratulations. That's quite an accomplishment.
So what?
How exactly do you figure that?
By the way, I don't "line up" or "obsess" over the products on tech sites. Yes, I'm getting an iPhone 5 to replace my aging 5 year old flip phone. Yes, I'll be getting a new 17" MacBook Pro (when the new ones come out) to replace the Lenovo T500 that just died on me. But that doesn't equal obsession.
I'm actually typing this on a Beige G3; introduced in 1997, Jobs actually had nothing to do with it. As for Mac OS X... well, Jobs can't program. So make of that what you will.
Oh.. and by the way? All macs today are just PCs. They've got shiny metal boxes, but on the inside, they're all Intel. Okay, part ATI/AMD. Jobs has nothing to do with them.
Oh... is THAT what he was doing? He was doing it all for us, out of the goodness of his heart? Well shucks, I feel foolish!
It would seem that blind faith is the answer, then, judging from your little.. tirade. As far as faithlessness goes... how about Jobs? He makes promises all the time about his products lasting years down the road, then doesn't keep them. Is that not disloyalty to his followers? Honestly though, I don't see why I ought too swear allegiance to one of the contributors of the products I use. I use an awful lot of products.
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Right, but Jobs annual salary was $1; and unless he's selling his stock options, he's not going to need to pay much by way of taxes at all.
This form of industrial capitalism is just a very small stage humanity is going through. I daresay we will look back in years to come, or maybe it will be our great grandchildren and see it as very wasteful of resources and very unequal.
There will be better ways, I suppose look to Scandinavian countries. Bill Gates is at least doing something.
I know this an unforgivably long post.
These are, to me, the most frightening set of sentiments I believe that I have ever seen. Perhaps that is because the people with whom I associate, while differing politically (conservative and liberal), religiously (believers and non-believers), economically (well-off to
barely making it), and in all other ways - all had human compassion and concern for others.
These posts represent the coldest and most heartless sentiments and beliefs I have ever seen here or, indeed, anywhere else short of some writings produced in the first part of the last century. Perhaps euthanasia for the physically and mentally disabled - they're just a drain on the food supply, too. We could always refurbish the gas chambers...
Even my frequent cynicism and misanthropy pales by comparison to the above writings.
Very Frightening.
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C'mon, that's crazy talk.
Didn't you know? The rules have changed. If you're wealthy you're required to give away some (or better yet, all) of your money for humanitarian causes in order to secure your eligibility for Worthy Human Being Status™.
And none of this "private" or "anonymous" crap. Oh no. It must be done publicly (and preferably in front of cameras, like this guy [who was as much a ruthless schemer as the next guy]: http://online.wsj.com/video/gates-donates-1b-to-gavi/030ACBC8-D2A3-4F7E-ADC2-72CCC197F332.html.) How else would the self-righteous be able to verify and quantify your worth as a human being?
Didn't you know that The New York Times is the foremost authority on this, and their deep concern about Steve Jobs' absence from the Giving Pledge must mean that Steve is not paying the "Humanitarian Tax" that all wealthy are required to pay? Who is Steve Jobs trying to hide from? Why is this fraudster not giving the world its due? Doesn't he know that his money doesn't actually belong to him?
Not even a hospital wing? C'mon Steve, say it aint so! Apple Inc? You call *that* an achievement? Pfft.
It doesn't matter what you accomplished in your lifetime. If you're "miserly" or "stingy" with your money, that automatically reduces the impact - social, cultural, material - of everything else you've done. It is vitally important that you do your part in "Giving to Humanity" - directly, openly, with free money (truckloads of it), so everyone can see it and rest assured that your worth as a human being is up to specs.
Because the NYT and the self-righteous on tech forums said so. And hey, all the cool billionaires are doing it.
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It's amazing that despite your long and obviously sarcastic post - there's absolutely nothing of value actually written here. Congrats.
This thread hardly merits any better from me.
Steve Jobs had created massive amounts of wealth by running a company making things you and I want, and has benefited large numbers of people in the process. His work has allowed a generation - as well as future generations - of creative artists to exist. This is a remarkable gift in and of itself - not a hand-out.
He doesn't owe squat to anyone. Nothing else. What a luxury it must be for an absolute parasite like Warren Buffett to be lecturing him (much less some newspaper columnist) on what he should do with his money.
Some people prefer "giving" in other ways. Not everyone believes in a straight-up public hand-out.
Yes. Give a man a dollar and you're a saint. Give him a job (so everyone benefits) and years down the road they call you a greedy bastard.
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I am old enough to remember Live Aid 1, I am old enough to remember Band Aid, I am old enough to remember the Michael Burke news reports that lead to the biggest televised appeal I have ever seen, I remember Band Aid 2, I remember Live Aid 2, despite all of that and the billions raised from that and other appeals the situation out in Africa is worse than it has ever been so simply throwing money at the problem is clearly not the solution.
What is the point of vaccinating people against malaria who are just going to die of starvation anyway ? instead of well meaning but misguided causes from the likes of Gates the situation in Africa will not improve until there is less people being born and the population of Africa gets significantly lower.
Cutting the sick adrift, educational programs, banning the catholic church in Africa, condoms, genetic crops, population control, those are the ways that in a few decades will help Africa
And who works in that company and buys the goods? And for every pound we pay for Apple goods the top guys pocket £££. Could you imagine a world where "for profit" was not the end. How about measuring a society by happiness. Why not sell at cost price?
This way of organizing society is a mere blip in the scale of things. If it endures for hundreds of more years then ... but I just can't see it. It can't be right 000s of little Indian children losing their sight each year through lack of vitamin A or kids in Africa drinking dirty water whilst multi billionaires accumulate more wealth. Its mad. Half the world starving - the other half morbidly obese??
ROLMAO!!!!!!!! You guys crack me up. Disney and Pixar have done wonders to advance mankind.
Jobs is an egomaniac who takes credit for things that he didn't do, yet never gives credit to those who actually came up with the idea. Where was Jobs on the list of most influential people of the 20 th century? Have you ever heard of Lee Iacocca? Sam Walton? Warren Buffett? Bill Gates? Henry Ford? Rupert Murdoch?
LMAO!! The rest of the world disagrees with you. I feel sorry for you.
So you know Bono personally or have met him face to face enough times to draw that conclusion? Haters gonna hate I guess.
ROLMAO!!!!!!!! You guys crack me up. Disney and Pixar have done wonders to advance mankind.
Have you ever heard of Lee Iacocca? Sam Walton? Warren Buffett? Bill Gates? Henry Ford? Rupert Murdoch?
Apple has had its true success in the last 10 years, there was no iPhone and iPad when the poll of the 20th century was made and Apple was recovering from near bankruptcy when the list of the 20th century influential people was made, we are in 2011 you know
Jobs will be heralded as one of the great icons of the 21st century without doubt
Revolutionised computing and electronics
Revolutionised the way we listen to music and buy music
Revolutionised Hollywood with animated movies
Became the biggest single owner of the Disney corporation
Jobs will IMHO be very high up on the list of the 21st century when it is made in 2099
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The rest of the world agrees that the Mac was the first personal computer to do away with the ghastly command prompt and bring in full blown mouse computing, MS copied Mac in that
Does the rest of the world credit Apple for putting a computer on every desk? In every home? Windows 95 sold more copies than Apple has sold computers since it has been in existence. Ponder that one for a while.