boo! new 2011 MBP won't boot after thermal paste

[Fubar1977]

But if your CPU goes up for an unrelated reason, the odds of it being covered under warranty is small. Actually, they can (and should) void the entire warranty on the computer for even unrelated work, such as battery replacement, due to user modification.

As far as the lasting longer idea, the paste redo may prolong longevity, but the MBP does not have a history of poor longevity...

I`m in total agreement here.
Not to say don`t do it, but you have to accept the possible consequences of carrying out work that will invalidate your warranty.
In short, if you`ve stumped up for AppleCare then there is no point in carrying out this procedure, if it cooks itself you`re covered.
If YOU cook it, you are`nt.

I`m quite in agreement that Apple should not be covering things like this under warranty it`s your choice to mess with your machine.
I do have sympathy OP but you chose to take the risk...

 

[mediasorcerer]

But if your CPU goes up for an unrelated reason, the odds of it being covered under warranty is small. Actually, they can (and should) void the entire warranty on the computer for even unrelated work, such as battery replacement, due to user modification.

As far as the lasting longer idea, the paste redo may prolong longevity, but the MBP does not have a history of poor longevity...

rubbish,what if it burns out 1 year and 1 day later???wheres the warranty then,?
i dont even think it really does void your warranty,if u do it carefully,as if they would know anyway,

 

[revelated]

Here's what I know.

My MacBook Pro never exceeds 85 degrees. Considering the first one I exchanged would get up into the 90's and beyond, I like to think that some were rushed out of the dock and others not so much.

For me, I would rather pin it on Apple than try to hack a ~$3,000 piece of equipment myself. It's their hardware and their responsibility to fix something that isn't working right. Now, if you guys are fine not only doing Apple's job, but risking not having them available to fix other things that might break, have at it. But I consider you quite stupid for doing so. My opinion.

If you're under warranty and you're not satisfied, HAVE APPLE FIX IT. That's what a frickin warranty is for.

 

[McGiord]

Here's what I know.

My MacBook Pro never exceeds 85 degrees. Considering the first one I exchanged would get up into the 90's and beyond, I like to think that some were rushed out of the dock and others not so much.

For me, I would rather pin it on Apple than try to hack a ~$3,000 piece of equipment myself. It's their hardware and their responsibility to fix something that isn't working right. Now, if you guys are fine not only doing Apple's job, but risking not having them available to fix other things that might break, have at it. But I consider you quite stupid for doing so. My opinion.

If you're under warranty and you're not satisfied, HAVE APPLE FIX IT. That's what a frickin warranty is for.

What are the "specs" or normal temperature ranges for the MacBooks Pro?
Is there any updated reference table somewhere?
http://www.intelmactemp.com/list

 

[Naimfan]

What they don't know won't hurt you. There's no true way for them to tell you re-did the thermal paste. Done it and took my old MBP in for AppleCare before no problems.

OP just take it in and play dumb. Simple as that.

The legal profession has a term for what you propose. That term is "fraud."

 

[MacBookPr0]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)

Ooh I bet apple won't cover it too

 

[Tonepoet]

Optical bay swapping isn't authorized only RAM/HDD* are but they often don't mind at all from what i've heard. I also was aluding to the fact that i recall reading about a member who had re-applied his thermal compound (didn't break anything) getting his computer fixed/replaced for a non-related issue.

Also according to other personal stories they will tell you to restore the factory parts b4 they look at your machine. I guess different stores in different countries have slightly different policies.

Maybe you can swap the optical drive on a Mac Pro which has four configurable drive bays but not for a Macbook Pro

MacBook Pro. See above.

I'm confused. Are we in any disagreement now? I'm wasn't saying there's no configurability to the Macbook Pro, I was just saying that it's *limited to the HDD/RAM unless there's written authorization. At any rate, reports of apple employees letting people some people slide for unauthorized repairs like thermal paste reapplication for reasons unknown, it doesn't mean it's anything they're obligated or even likely to do for everybody... Seems like an absolutely unnecessary gamble to me.

 

[TheUndertow]

Surprised that this is only the first post I've seen like this since the TP / MBP Temperature concerns came to light.

To the OP, I feel for ya and do what you think is right...very much sucks to potentially be out on a brand new and significant investment.

I haven't ordered one yet (potentially end of month if I don't do with an iMac and wait for the next MBP refresh for a notebook).

Had I ordered at launch like I was planning, I probably would have been the first to blow up my machine for a few degrees of Temp relief and "no" real need IF you've ponied up for AppleCare.

 

[iamthedudeman]

Live and learn but I would just feign ignorance and act like you don't know what happened and hope for the best. Most of the time they will check it out in the back, and not bother to open it up. Turn it on and when it doesn't work they will most likely replace it on the spot.

When in doubt act it out.

 

[NickZac]

I`m in total agreement here.
Not to say don`t do it, but you have to accept the possible consequences of carrying out work that will invalidate your warranty.
In short, if you`ve stumped up for AppleCare then there is no point in carrying out this procedure, if it cooks itself you`re covered.
If YOU cook it, you are`nt.

I`m quite in agreement that Apple should not be covering things like this under warranty it`s your choice to mess with your machine.
I do have sympathy OP but you chose to take the risk...

I agree; it is silly for people to modify (and sometimes mutilate) their computers and then expect Apple, or any maker, to fix it (I am not saying that is or is not the case here but saying this in a general sense). More than likely, if a part fails after user-modification, it is the user's own doing. Apple and other makers spend millions of dollars designing and testing systems to work correctly, as well as having correct safety systems in the event of a problem. Any time you manipulate this, you not only change the tolerances that the system is made with, but you screw up all safety systems as well, which can present a safety hazard. It is like controlling the fan speed and then having the computer overheat, replacing the battery with a 3rd party unit and then having the computer cook, or using a 3rd party AC adapter and causing a fire.

Perhaps some modifications can improve the system, but as a general rule, if you change factory settings, you void factory warranties. Furthermore, you have to assume liability for damage and the consequences despite having warranty coverage.

rubbish,what if it burns out 1 year and 1 day later???wheres the warranty then,?
i dont even think it really does void your warranty,if u do it carefully,as if they would know anyway,

I've personally had Apple come through for me on (at least what seemed to be) defective products that were out of warranty. And how many Mac's 'burn out"? And yes, it does void your warranty and under (at least US) litigation that involves warranties, a company can (and should) void a warranty if the user modifies their product in a way that the original maker did not approve. Perhaps you and other people here are very good at applying thermal paste given that this is an enthusiast's forum, but most users are not competent enough to do this correctly. So you do this and the CPU goes up for an unrelated reason and Apple warranties the item. But then a user with no clue applies paste and nukes their system. If Apple comes through for you but not them, that is discrimination. If makers had to assume the liability of everyone's idiocracy, a MacBook Pro would cost $30,000.

Incorrect.

You are quoting one major design issue that indeed was a nightmare, but one single issue. By that reasoning, every computer maker is a complete POS given all have had at least 1 major design issue. How many people have said about the C2D, i7/i5 dual and/or i7 quad that "my computer got so hot the thermal protectors shut it down", or "my computer got so hot it melted the ________"? The MBP has it's issues like all systems, but thermal damage is rarely one of them.

Surprised that this is only the first post I've seen like this since the TP / MBP Temperature concerns came to light.

The lack of this topic in itself shows, and the lack of any evidence of thermal damage to the new MBPs indicates, that the MBP temps are not as much of an issue in regards to product durability as they are an issue in regards to psychological perception.

 

[NickZac]

At least for American consumers, this type of modification CAN and should void your warranty from both AppleCare and any 3rd party insurance that does not insure user-induced damage.


The federal minimum standards for full warranties are waived if the warrantor can show that the problem associated with a warranted consumer product was caused by damage while in the possession of the consumer, or by unreasonable use, including a failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance.


This is from the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act (P.L. 93-637) is a United States federal law, (15 U.S.C. § 2301 et seq.)

 

[Fubar1977]

I agree; it is silly for people to modify (and sometimes mutilate) their computers and then expect Apple, or any maker, to fix it (I am not saying that is or is not the case here but saying this in a general sense). More than likely, if a part fails after user-modification, it is the user's own doing. Apple and other makers spend millions of dollars designing and testing systems to work correctly, as well as having correct safety systems in the event of a problem. Any time you manipulate this, you not only change the tolerances that the system is made with, but you screw up all safety systems as well, which can present a safety hazard. It is like controlling the fan speed and then having the computer overheat, replacing the battery with a 3rd party unit and then having the computer cook, or using a 3rd party AC adapter and causing a fire.

Perhaps some modifications can improve the system, but as a general rule, if you change factory settings, you void factory warranties. Furthermore, you have to assume liability for damage and the consequences despite having warranty coverage.

Thank you Nick, the voice of reason.

But of course Macrumors members know way more about designing and building complex pieces of Apple computer equipment than Apple do...

If you can spare a couple of grand to replace the logic board if this goes wrong then do it by all means, otherwise maybe leave it to, you know, the people that built the damn thing.

If your temps are so high that you figure you need to start modifying your MBP then, clearly, there`s something wrong with it.

 

[revelated]

What are the "specs" or normal temperature ranges for the MacBooks Pro?
Is there any updated reference table somewhere?
http://www.intelmactemp.com/list

Question 1: What's it matter? Seriously?

Assume for a moment that the Intel chips are rated to handle 110 C before shutting down. If you max out all 8 cores and your temperature doesn't go over 85 C, why should you care about what the thermal paste is doing? If it DOES go over 85 C how much? 90 C? Still well beneath the max. 100 C? Probably should just take it to Apple and show them. By the time it gets that hot, you'll be able to demonstrate why it's unacceptable by simply maxing out the cores right in front of the guy/gal and putting their hand near it. They'll swap it on the spot. THAT IS WHAT A WARRANTY IS FOR.

If you're out of warranty and just don't care, then fine have at it. But again, if you screw something up, you should not be angry at anyone but yourself for taking the risk. You knew it could happen when you went in. But what we have are people who see (or perceive, more accurately) a heat problem, and try to fix a problem that isn't. We don't know what the temperature was when the person tried to change the paste; it might have been 90C, well within the standard and not enough of an issue to be doing this. Even if the temperature was ungodly high, the only thing they had to do was take it to Apple and get it exchanged instead of trying to be a l33t hax0r.

So you'll forgive me if I don't have sympathy for the OP, but I'm seriously trying to understand why people refuse to use the warranty that is given to them. For the money that they pay for these machines, people need to demand a better standard, even if that means you exchange the damn thing until it's correct.

 

[snouter]

The lowest CPU temp I ever saw was 61C. If I drive my Cinema Display (ie 6750M in use) and open one web browser page the temps jumped to the upper 60s which was not that bad except for I was not really "doing anything" and now the fans have jumped to the low 4000s.

The fans are audible in the low 4000s. It's not horrible like the fan I had on a Dell Pentium 4 3GHz laptop which I called the "hair dryer", and the fans on the MacBook Pro are pretty large so their noise is somewhat less objectionable than if they were smaller fans.

Anyhow, in reality, my base usage scenario had my temps near 70C and my fans in the low 4000s. I like tinkering with things and have built a few desktops, thermal paste on desktops (my homebuilt i7 desktop idles in the low 30s - not a comparison, just I'm assuming I got the paste right with that one), took a Porsche engine apart using a fax machine and email (pre webforums internet days), and thought I'd give it a go. Actually, the job was not that hard, even though something obviously went catastrophic at some point. The tuts and pics posted here, the youtube video (even though I have a 17") and if it got to crazy I would have quit out. 2 of the ribbons are pretty ridiculous just because they are so small, but the rest of it was not too hard.

I thought I could get the idle (61C) down and keep the fans from kicking in as early.

Just an aesthetic thing.

I was really just looking for a fancier version of SMC Reset in this thread, maybe next time I'll just ask for that, lol.

 

[gnasher729]

Also according to other personal stories they will tell you to restore the factory parts b4 they look at your machine. I guess different stores in different countries have slightly different policies.

I think it's mostly in case they "repair" your Mac by giving you a refurbished one, not because they would refuse a repair otherwise.

Close but not quite right. Written up in Apple's policy on page two of the warranty itself is that any user repairs or modification voids the warranty, unless it's one of the few things defined as user installable parts by the item's manual or express written permission is given.

That's Apple's warranty, which is beyond any warranty that you might have by your countries law. That part would be let's say "interesting". For example, if your MacBook breaks in the first six months in the UK, then it would be assumed by law that it is Apple's fault - I assume that if Apple shows you tried replacing the thermal paste then that assumption is straight out of the window, and you would have to prove that it was Apple's fault (good luck with that).

Anyway, I sometimes read claims that a MacBook gets hot because the processor isn't could properly. I would think that it would get hot _on the outside_ exactly because the processor cooling works well and the heat is transferred to the outside.

rubbish,what if it burns out 1 year and 1 day later???wheres the warranty then,?
i dont even think it really does void your warranty,if u do it carefully,as if they would know anyway,

If the OP's MacBook had burnt out after one year and one day, he would have had a working Mac for one year longer than he actually had. And if you suspect your Mac has any kind of problems, that's when you buy extended warranty after 11 months.

 

[aznguyen316]

The legal profession has a term for what you propose. That term is "fraud."

Lol sure if you want to go legal than prove that op actually directly screwed something up by doing thermal paste. Something totally unrelated could have happened. Unlikely but I'm just giving him advice. Could've just kept it to himself and went about his business.

 

[Naimfan]

Lol sure if you want to go legal than prove that op actually directly screwed something up by doing thermal paste.

Apple doesn't have to prove it, as you would understand if you read and understood Apple's limited warranty. If the OP tells Apple he did thermal paste work he has instantly voided his warranty by admitting that he carried out unauthorized maintenance/repair work.

He might get lucky and have Apple repair or replace it (and given the postings by the OP, I hope Apple does), but the essential point here is that Apple is under no legal obligation to do so.

 

[Criticalmass]

I don't have a Y screwdriver to remove the battery. Any other way to reset this laptop?




You left the battery hooked up???

Heh..

 

[thermodynamic]

I have to ask: Why on earth were you redoing the thermal paste? Don't you understand you void the warranty by trying it?

Others have said they've cleaned up excessive thermal grease and applied AS5 or whatever, and rendered the machine 20C cooler. Coming from the PC realm 2 years ago where I built PCs and overclocked them to Mercury and back, I can understand this desire for optimal cooling...

Must be an ex PC user
Image

ROTFLMAO, thanks!!

 

[Prodo123]

why you did that yourself and not take it to the Genius Bar? Seems like something got damaged...did you use ESD arm band and mat?

ifixit.com
For the tools, and disassembly/assembly instructions.

Sounds exactly like static damage to me. Either he didn't ground himself, or did it improperly and damaged the CPU, in which case the OP just wasted $2000.
That plus the battery left plugged in? No wonder... Sorry, OP, no solution.

Sadly, the only modifications Apple's warranty covers are the hard drive and RAM. Nothing else is covered.

 

[thermodynamic]

The legal profession has a term for what you propose. That term is "fraud."

That is true.

they were globby...

Image
Image
Image

Thx for the images! The thermal grease is very poorly applied. Given Foxconn also puts together boards for other companies as well as Apple, they'll sully their reputation in no time.

Apple sucks at applying it properly (I don't even think they try) so you get insulation as opposed to transference of heat.

By removing the globs Apple puts on and applying the proper amount you can drastically reduce your CPU and GPU temperatures. This means:

1. Your machine will last longer
2. Your machine will run cooler
3. Your machine will run quieter
4. Your machine will run more efficiently under load

Apple doesn't put it on. The factory they contract out to does.

Having said that, you are 100% correct.

The factory really should do a better job at that. Using a smaller amount of grease, properly applied, not only does a better job at transferring heat, but the lesser amount of grease means saving more grease for other machines. I'd reckon they could coat two if not THREE machines with the amount slopped on just one machine. That's how sloppy they're being with that much muck surrounding the actual chip. The net $aving$ would be tremendously large.

Close but not quite right. Written up in Apple's policy on page two of the warranty itself is that any user repairs or modification voids the warranty, unless it's one of the few things defined as user installable parts by the item's manual or express written permission is given. On page 64 of the Macbook Pro's Manual, it details:

I do know Apple's policies, but wanted to thank you for posting those links. That's good info for everybody to know.

 

[duffman9000]

I got my Macbook Pro on Friday and after noticing the somewhat high temperatures, I kicked around the idea of reapplying the thermal paste. I decided against doing this (last night, not after reading this ). I have Apple care and if the system melts down I can return it.

To the op, IIRC you left the battery connected? Yeah, that probably did the damage.

 

[aibo82]

Personally I'd just strip it down again clean off all the thermal paste you have put on!

Find some extreamly simlar to apples and apply it in the same amount as apple, then put and back together!

Take it back to apple and act dumb!

whoever keeps blurting on this is fraud or whatevere are serious do gooder's and must be up apples backside.

Its a billion $$$$ in profit company the $2000 from your atempt isnt going to ruin apple!

They will pull your old one for spares and referbs anyway!

Just do it give it a go if you get caught by apple tough times if you dont good on ya your saved dont do it again! dont keep posting on this as all you'll get is the PC brigade and the do gooder party.

And if you used artic silver 5 as thermal paste remember its conductive any of this on the surface mount resistors will cause a short! I only use it on capped CPUS.

 

[got2go]

I got my Macbook Pro on Friday and after noticing the somewhat high temperatures, I kicked around the idea of reapplying the thermal paste. I decided against doing this (last night, not after reading this ). I have Apple care and if the system melts down I can return it.

To the op, IIRC you left the battery connected? Yeah, that probably did the damage.

Yes but with that much thermal paste (potentially) on there check your temps. If their high take it back and demand a refund. There is a good chance that it will do slow damage to your system and then crap out after your warranty is done.

 

[BJonson]

Thread Starter: Hello Genius, my computer just stopped working.
Genius: Yep, its broken. Here is your new computer.

End of story.