Boot Camp and Mac Game Developers?

[MacGuy88]

All bull..

Look, try and load a program, ANY program on a windows pc.

Now try and load one on a mac. Note any differences?

One of the worst problems with Windows XP is that the more you use it (online), the slower and slower your computer performs. One thing I have noted since I converted is how Macs fly from the day you get it until... forever.

I am only 17. However, common sense tells me that because of Apple 110% solid machines, the same programs will still be "written" for Macs.

~ Brad

 

[Lollypop]

Finally registered but watching macrumors for a while now...

On topic.
Let's all not forget that Mac games are more expensive! THAT will drive people over to the other side if you'll ask me. And by that I mean "gaming wise" ...for there is no other "other" side.

My two cents.

Greetz

Welcome minipri!

Hopefully boot camp will force developers to make the ports availalbe faster at a lower cost, if they dont people will be driven to the other side (windows) and mac games will suffer greatly, if that happens lets not hope its the first of many sectors to go exclusively dark side!

 

[mtrctyjoe]

All is good... don't worry. Here is why...

Dual Booting... simply put... is a pain the ^%$. No one likes to reboot. What this will do is get more MACS on the street and more people playing around with OSX - Windows XP offers an insurance policy. If MAC doubles their PC market share - which is an absolutely TERMENDOUS feet... (which they will do) - How can this be bad for Mac Gamers?

 

[slooksterPSV]

Well, I think more people may see this as a great combination. Designers, instead of using PC's may switch to Macs cause they have XP on one partition and Mac OS X on another. Learn OS X, Design on OS X, Play games on XP, then they may see OS X is so clean and smooth, why not run games purely on OS X. Not saying this is a designers stand point, but I'm wondering how this compromise and scalability w/different OS's is going to affect Apple's Market Share. If we could get...!!! Ok on Vista OpenGL is going to be cut (performance wise) 50% right? It is, why? Aero-glass. Apple has a better chance, maybe, if they get more companies to produce OpenGL games on their system. Forge a gamers market on OS X.

Ahh lots of struggles. By the way, if none of this makes sense is sounds stupid, it's 5:30 AM, I'm not sure what I'm saying, but sounds good to me. GO OS X!!!

 

[zelmo]

Most games these days have an online multiplayer component, which is usually a very big draw. Isn't one of the most frequently voiced reasons for switching that of 'escaping the virus and malware that is Windows online'?
I don't see myself booting Windows on my Mac so I can go on-line to play a game. I think most Mac people who are also gamers are already using a 2nd PC specifically for games, or are doing the console thing (like me).

Still, I don't think the future of Mac gaming looks all that rosy. It'll get worse when there is an easy way to efficiently virtualize Windows OS in Mac OS X instead of having to reboot.

 

[BillHarrison]

Wow, just wow! A couple posters got it right, but most are way off mark in here.

The state of OS X games is dismal. It was always dismal. I saw nothing that was going to magically make it "Not dismal".

Mac games are more expensive, much later, and perform worse than their windows counterparts. Most games were not being ported, irregardless of this. Look at it this way:

You are losing 3-5 crappy ports per year

You are gaining hundreds of quality games!

I mean, its all about economics at this point. The mac gaming companies that do most the ports (Aspyr) don't really put out much in the way of their own games. So, they will either step up to the plate, and start porting games in a better and more timely fashion, start producing their OWN games, for either platform, or go out of business.


As far as the rest, I man, come on. There have been petitions, etc. One guy mentioned,

"Now, even with the petitions, they will NEVER port to OS X!"

I have news for you buddy, even with petitions, and even without windows on a mac, they were never going to port to os x. Just wasn't going to happen.

This is opening worlds of opportunity for new mac users who were stuck on pc's due to having windows apps without mac compatibility.

It WILL put more macs in peoples hands, and as EVERYONE always says, apple is a hardware company.

Well, here ya go, a hardware company just made a move to increase HARDWARE sales. Isn't that what everyone has said all along?

Me personally, I think that this will certainly NOT lower OS X adoption, and if anything raise it, just due to it being in more peoples hands. They have to actively install windows, it does not come that way. Anyone doing that is intelligent enough to know what they are getting into.

As far as aspyr, and other mac game producers, welcome to the real world, where you don't have a "Built in" audience for your games anymore, and actually have to rely on pricing, quality, and game content to make sales!

BOO HOO!

 

[slooksterPSV]

Wow, just wow! A couple posters got it right, but most are way off mark in here.

The state of OS X games is dismal. It was always dismal. I saw nothing that was going to magically make it "Not dismal".

Mac games are more expensive, much later, and perform worse than their windows counterparts. Most games were not being ported, irregardless of this. Look at it this way:

You are losing 3-5 crappy ports per year

You are gaining hundreds of quality games!

I mean, its all about economics at this point. The mac gaming companies that do most the ports (Aspyr) don't really put out much in the way of their own games. So, they will either step up to the plate, and start porting games in a better and more timely fashion, start producing their OWN games, for either platform, or go out of business.


As far as the rest, I man, come on. There have been petitions, etc. One guy mentioned,

"Now, even with the petitions, they will NEVER port to OS X!"

I have news for you buddy, even with petitions, and even without windows on a mac, they were never going to port to os x. Just wasn't going to happen.

This is opening worlds of opportunity for new mac users who were stuck on pc's due to having windows apps without mac compatibility.

It WILL put more macs in peoples hands, and as EVERYONE always says, apple is a hardware company.

Well, here ya go, a hardware company just made a move to increase HARDWARE sales. Isn't that what everyone has said all along?

Me personally, I think that this will certainly NOT lower OS X adoption, and if anything raise it, just due to it being in more peoples hands. They have to actively install windows, it does not come that way. Anyone doing that is intelligent enough to know what they are getting into.

As far as aspyr, and other mac game producers, welcome to the real world, where you don't have a "Built in" audience for your games anymore, and actually have to rely on pricing, quality, and game content to make sales!

BOO HOO!

You can hope though, I mean that's where Mac OS X is struggling. In the business world, yes some do use macs, so that's not a problem (office apps), but with gaming it is a big issue. If Apple could figure out a way to enhance performance and make these games run exponentially faster, I think there may be a huge market shift. I already see one with the dual-booting and now virtualization in OS X (Leopard for the latter). There's a big change for Apple coming now. I can't say what, but something is going to change. If we get at least 10% more of the current Windoze population to Migrate to Mac OS X, we've won the battle. Heck even 5% isn't bad. - Gaming I could estimate 15% increase as a possibility.

 

[Leoff]

All I wanna know is if the Windows versions of Command and Conquer: Generals and Doom 3 will play on an Intel iMac or MacBookPro? I'm guessing Doom 3 won't work on an Intel MacMini because of the graphics requirements.

 

[gregorsamsa]

Power PC days may become "the good old days!"

Still can't see why games developers won't drastically cut number of ports to Mac. PC versions cheaper, (porting to Mac more expensive for developers hence dearer Mac games), MASSIVE back-catalogue of games previously unavailable to Mac owners will be too tempting to resist for most Mac gamers to ignore installing Windows &, of even greater concern, the whole Intel/Windows thing will bring with it (yes, as well as some discerning switchers from PCs who will appreciate the wonders of MAC OS X & use the platform regularly) also a flood of philistines who'll buy an Apple just because it looks like a nice computer to run their Microsoft & PC gaming software on. ALL Mac software developers may suffer financially long-term. This could affect the future of Mac OS X . Dearly hope I'm proven wrong.

 

[Arnaud]

My summary:
- Mac user runs Windows on Mac: can play games, and maybe even realise that Windows is not that bad (to a certain point); conclusion: will stay a Mac user or switch to Windows (because after all, a Mac is expensive for running Windows);
- Pc user runs Windows on Mac: because of his Windows habits, he might never use OsX, especially since his workflow is basically on the PC-part of the Mac; he might also start to like OsX, but this is dubious if he has to change all his way when he has the choice: a "Switcher" of the last 5 years had to forget his habits and learn OsX ("dive and swim"), the new Switcher will just need to reboot to get back into a familiar setting ("dive and get out of the water if you don't feel like swimming").

I still think the odds are not that great.

But maybe there's a trick in the hat: how will "Boot Camp" be implemented in Leopard ? Could Apple limit some of its use, "legally" ?

 

[mattraehl]

yeah, right

Me: Game Company X, I want to buy you Cool New Game for my Mac.

Game Company X: Okay, first, you need to upgrade to Lepoard for $130. Now, go pick up a copy of Windows XP for $200. Then, buy the windows version of our game for $50, boot into windows and use that.

Me: Ummm, right. I think I'll go spend my $380 on a game console and a few games. Have a nice day.

 

[Plantman]

Windows on a MAC

There has to be more to this than meets the eyes. The threat of software developers stopping making MAC software is huge- and it is not just games, what about MS Office and Photoshop (let's face it Adobe are hardly hauling ass to release a new version anyway!)? The cancellation of the last two titles may have been threatened anyway.

Either Jobs has admitted defeat and wants OS X to wind down and disappear (then Apple could dominate PC hardware) or he has a trick up his sleeve such as Mac equivalent or better versions of Office and Photoshop. I favour the trick up his sleeve as otherwise this does not make good business sense. They certainly are capable of doing this- Keynote is a fine example of a presentation software package which holds its own against PowerPoint- Pages on the otherhand is a little unwieldy for everyday tasks to replace Word but I am sure it could be souped up.

But remember the iPod halo effect will not last forever and Apple need to capitalise on it now or its advantages will slip away.

 

[MacMyDay]

Am I telling you that people leave all their applications and documents open? Yes. Yes, I am. I have lots of notes open, TextEdit files, Word documents, PDF files, Terminal applications etc. I will have to close all of them down, disrupt my entire work flow, purely to play on one game, even if it is for an hour. It takes me a fair amount of time to sort everything out when software updates come out to reboot, so I won't be doing it everytime I'm bored and want to play a game.

I don't know about you, but when I play a game, I usually do it for a decent chunk of time...30 minutes at least, up to a number of hours. It's not something that I jump in and out of like I would do with Address Book, Mail or iCal. Does anybody actually use their computer in the way you are suggesting? Hands up all those gamers who enjoy a damned good 3.25 minute session of F.E.A.R or Battlefield 2!! Let's be honest. If you are <cough> "working", and you suddenly feel the need to goof off and start playing games, a minute or two of downtime while you reboot is the least of your concerns.

 

[demallien]

I think the doomsayers have forgotten a very important point...

Most here on MacRumors agree that dual-booting is going to help sell more Macs. Lots more Macs. A developer of Mac only games will now suddenly have a much marger market to sell to.

Sure, people doing ports of PC games won't be doing so well. But a larger Mac community means a large, untapped, market where mac-only gaming companies should thrive. Expect to see companies like Ambrosia doing much better thanks to the dual-booting Mac.

I guess we'll see in a couple of years who was right...

 

[commonpeople]

Here's the answer.

We'll continue to use Mac OS X as we've always done for access to all our favorite apps. We'll use windows as a dedicated games machine when we want to play a game.

There's really little loss. Those who don't want to play games won't invest in buying windows- as they've always done. Those who love games will gladly suffer the expense of buying a dedicated 'games OS' to run on their Macs.

 

[Arnaud]

Most here on MacRumors agree that dual-booting is going to help sell more Macs. Lots more Macs.

Uh, no, I've seen many dissending posts (mine included), it is definitely not an accepted concepts... I'd say half here think it's great, and half here think it's scary...

 

[minipri]

Me: Game Company X, I want to buy you Cool New Game for my Mac.
Game Company X: Okay, first, you need to upgrade to Lepoard for $130. Now, go pick up a copy of Windows XP for $200. Then, buy the windows version of our game for $50, boot into windows and use that.
Me: Ummm, right. I think I'll go spend my $380 on a game console and a few games. Have a nice day.

Nuh-uh. Maybe that's the truth for now... But in a short time, Leopard will be pre installed folks. So no $130 on a new OSX. Wouldn't run on any PowerPC Mac anyway so those guys wouldn't have to worry, right?

And for me...
Sadly but true. I'm willing to pay an extra few Euro's (for windowzzz) to play some ass-kicking game's!
That is... IF they don't port them (and faster and cheaper to!) to OSX of course. Otherwise, I/we will be forced to 'play' it dirty.

And no-way! I'm willing to buy an XBox, so don't mention it! Thnx.

But then again, ...these are just my two cents.


[ dim. ]

Ps:

What do you get when u cross a nun with apple? A computer that will never go down on you!!

...nice one.

 

[Leoff]

Me: Game Company X, I want to buy you Cool New Game for my Mac.

Game Company X: Okay, first, you need to upgrade to Lepoard for $130. Now, go pick up a copy of Windows XP for $200. Then, buy the windows version of our game for $50, boot into windows and use that.

Me: Ummm, right. I think I'll go spend my $380 on a game console and a few games. Have a nice day.

What world are you living in?

Do you often approach Game Company X, knowing full well that they don't make a Mac version of their "Cool New Game", wanting to buy it? Or do you do what most of the known Mac world does and buy a game that's made for the Mac?

Most Mac people are not going to do all of what you say above to play a game. If they're going to download Boot Camp and purchase Windows, chances are they'll have some other real-world uses for it, not simply to play games.

(Not to mention, most true gamers already have a Windows PC)

 

[jimmy2gig]

Battlefield on MacBook Pro

Hi All!

Installed XP on my 2.0 Ghz MBP last night using Boot Camp, followed closely by Battlefield 2

After running the patches for BF2 it worked a lot better than expected, in fact after pumping the settings up to High across the board it still performed way beyond expectations.

Filmed a movie of the game playing on the MBP but have nowhere to put it online, anyone got a suggestion?

 

[minipri]

Do NOT buy

There has to be more to this than meets the eyes. The threat of software developers stopping making MAC software is huge- and it is not just games, what about MS Office and Photoshop (let's face it Adobe are hardly hauling ass to release a new version anyway!)? The cancellation of the last two titles may have been threatened anyway.

Either Jobs has admitted defeat and wants OS X to wind down and disappear (then Apple could dominate PC hardware) etc. etc. ...

What! No, ...No way! I refuse to believe this! OSX is so much better than Windows. Are you boys&girls forgetting this? (Are there any girls out here anyway? )

Plain simple! Don't buy windows software unless you really have to! Force Adobe (&others) to develop for OSX. I for me, I swear to God, that I will NOT buy Adobe soft anymore, NEVER AGAIN, in my entire life. Ever! ...IF they'll drop the bucket on Apple, OSX that is. (for Apple is not OSX per definition, those days are over )
They will never drag me down!
I'll use Gimp for all that matter, don't care!
But I'm also honest to admit, ...that I'll like to play a game once in a while. And oeps, there's is Windowzzz again. Sorry. Don't shoot me for this please! Hehehe.

Conclusion: Do NOT buy any Windows software out there! ...except maybe a game that they don't port.

Are these (again) just my two cents?

[ dim. ]

 

[Shadow]

Hi All!

Installed XP on my 2.0 Ghz MBP last night using Boot Camp, followed closely by Battlefield 2

After running the patches for BF2 it worked a lot better than expected, in fact after pumping the settings up to High across the board it still performed way beyond expectations.

Filmed a movie of the game playing on the MBP but have nowhere to put it online, anyone got a suggestion?

Google video.

 

[demallien]

Uh, no, I've seen many dissending posts (mine included), it is definitely not an accepted concepts... I'd say half here think it's great, and half here think it's scary...

Uh huh, I didn't say it wasn't scary, I said it would sell more Macs. The Nasdaq seems to agree with me even if you don't...

 

[pellucidity]

Cedega on OS X

that is all.

 

[demallien]

What! No, ...No way! I refuse to believe this! OSX is so much better than Windows. Are you boys&girls forgetting this? (Are there any girls out here anyway? )

ben oui!!!

 

[Xenious]

I think we are cutting them too much slack already. How about instead of these 3rd parties doing ports, the first parties do the code and release it on day 1 on the same disc.

Blizzard sets the bar here and everyone else needs to live up to their standard.