Boot From OSX External SSD Thunderbolt or UBS 3.0

Discussion in 'iMac' started by JEREZANO, Jun 11, 2017.

  1. JEREZANO macrumors member

    JEREZANO

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    Mar 17, 2014
    #1
    what can be the best solution for use an external drive to boot OSX thunderbolt or usb 3.0
    I have a iMac 2013 27'' but seem to be hard to open it to cut all the screen around to add a internal SSD drive looking for external solutions.
    any ideas about speed or trim enabler please share thank you..
     
  2. Growlernz macrumors newbie

    Growlernz

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  3. JEREZANO thread starter macrumors member

    JEREZANO

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    #3
    How about the speed
     
  4. nambuccaheadsau macrumors 6502a

    nambuccaheadsau

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    #4
    USB3 = 5Gbps and TB1 = 10Gbps but you will not get that fast on either.

    I used an SSD via TB externally when I had a 2011 iMac and it was yonks faster than the old 7200rpm drive.
     
  5. PJivan macrumors regular

    PJivan

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    #5
    Those are theoretical speeds...also latency and cpu utilization for both is different...
     
  6. SaSaSushi macrumors 68040

    SaSaSushi

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    #6
    Although I just ordered a 2017 5k with a 512GB SSD, I've been booting my Late 2013 27-inch from a Samsung 840 EVO in a Delock 42490 enclosure for the past 4 years and have had zero issues to speak of.

    I posted a review of an Inateck USB enclosure in 2014 with some comparison benchmarks to the Delock you can check out.

    As mentioned, MacOS does not support TRIM over USB, only Thunderbolt.

    The Delock 42510 is the current model and you can get it from Synchrotech for $85 (no TB cable included). It's a great little unit.
     
  7. JEREZANO thread starter macrumors member

    JEREZANO

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    Mar 17, 2014
    #7
    Thank you for all information that you provide very helpful.. I have a question how about The trim do you really see differences having enable or not..
     
  8. Fishrrman macrumors G4

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    Feb 20, 2009
    #8
    OP:

    TRIM is a NON-issue. Means nothing.
    See this post I made yesterday for further detail:
    https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/24676914/

    Now that that's out of the way, let's get down to the issue of speeds.

    USB3 (with an enclosure or USB3/SATA dock that supports UASP) will yield 430mbps reads, and 250-350mbps writes (the exact number will depend on the drive size, model, mfr.).

    t-bolt2 would do little-to-no better, perhaps even worse.

    Get a USB3 enclosure or USB3/SATA dock (or even an "adapter dongle") that supports UASP (USB attached SCSI protocol).
    Then set it up and post back here with your experiences.
    I predict you'll be VERY happy!
     
  9. JEREZANO thread starter macrumors member

    JEREZANO

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    Mar 17, 2014
    #9
    Also how about Lacie rugged thunderbolt I saw some people replace the drive for SSD to boot from it?
     
  10. Weaselboy Moderator

    Weaselboy

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    #10
    Every time you post this, you should clarify that this has only been based on your experience with a sample size of one.

    Many users DO see write speed slow downs due to TRIM not being enabled. Then a quick fsck run in recovery with TRIM on fully restores the write speeds. There are many forum posts showing this to be the case.
     
  11. mikeboss macrumors 65816

    mikeboss

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    #11
    that's exactly what I did (got the smallest HDD based LaCie Rugged TB and replaced the HD with a SAMSUNG 850 Pro). using SSDs without TRIM is a no-go for me. IMHO, USB is okay for backup or moving around big files. as a system-disk, I'd never use USB! another benefit when using a TB enclosure: S.M.A.R.T. works flawless (I use DriveDx to check the health of drives) and even updating the SSD's firmware works through Thunderbolt.
     
  12. SaSaSushi macrumors 68040

    SaSaSushi

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    #12
    On top of that, there is the issue of potentially decreased longevity due to write amplification.
    See the post I made yesterday in response to his post for further detail:
    https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ssd-vs-fusion-drive.2049515/page-4#post-24678194
     
  13. propower macrumors 6502a

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    Jul 23, 2010
    #13
    You meant MBps right?
    Quick test of 840 Pro in Vayager dock USB3 = 275MBps Write, 350MBps Read - about the same in my Blackmagic Multidock TB1 280MBps Write, 380MBps Read.
     
  14. MultiFinder17 macrumors 68000

    MultiFinder17

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    #14
    I run my home server (2012 quad i7 mini) off a 512GB external USB3 SSD, and it runs wonderfully.
     
  15. JEREZANO thread starter macrumors member

    JEREZANO

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    #15
    Usually in how many seconds your mac turn on using the TB SSD and what is your write and read speed?
     
  16. mikeboss macrumors 65816

    mikeboss

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    #16
    sustained read is about 390 MB/Sec.
    power on to login screen is about 15 Seconds.
     
  17. Fishrrman macrumors G4

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    Feb 20, 2009
    #17
    I'll respond to Weaselboy's comments above.

    Unlike others here, I actually have nearly five years' experience of booting and running a Mac exclusively from SSD's mounted in external USB devices. Who else will claim to have booted/run this way for four years? For two years? For one?

    With the SSD's I used, I took benchmarks immediately after installing, and can compare them against benchmarks today (using BlackMagic's utility). The benchmark speeds remain the same.

    If others here have empirical evidence that they can post that shows otherwise, then… post it.

    I realize that -some- drives might experience degraded performance for the lack of TRIM, but as SSD drive tech evolves, this seems to be less and less of a problem. I've used drives from Intel, Crucial and Sandisk with no problems.

    This isn't to say that I wouldn't enable TRIM if possible (I would, if it was available).
    But the drives I've used seem to run fine over time without it.

    Perhaps at some point in the future the drives I'm using will just clog up and give out.
    Can't say. Don't know.
    All I can report is "what I've observed".

    And my conclusion from my observations as a result of real-world usage is that TRIM is "all hat and no cattle".
    It might be an issue, for someone, somplace.
    But as time passes, the size of that issue continues to shrink.

    I believe anyone looking to speed up an older Mac (with internal HDD) that has USB3, could switch to a USB3 SSD "external booter" that would outlast the Mac itself before the drive evidenced any signs of internal degradation for lack of TRIM.

    That's my position, based on actual experience.
     
  18. nambuccaheadsau macrumors 6502a

    nambuccaheadsau

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    #18
    Moi fisho.

    Whilst I preferred TB, agree with everything you say.
     
  19. SaSaSushi, Jun 14, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017

    SaSaSushi macrumors 68040

    SaSaSushi

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    #19
    How does this make the experiences of others who experienced system slowdowns in much shorter periods, and posted to these forums about it, any less relevant?

    All Solid State Drives are always benefitted by enabling TRIM. There is no new technology that negates its utility. Garbage collection is not the same.

    Running SSDs without TRIM can lead to reduced longevity and system slowdown and absolutely increases write amplification, period.

    And it might be a lot sooner that what it would have been with TRIM enabled when they do.

    The advantages of enabling TRIM are as valid in the latest drives as they were five years ago.
     
  20. kylera macrumors 65816

    kylera

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    #20
    How long did you do this? Were there any heat issues?

    I have a 2011 iMac and I don't want to open it up.
     
  21. Fishrrman, Jun 14, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017

    Fishrrman macrumors G4

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    #21
    Sushi wrote:
    "All Solid State Drives are always benefitted by enabling TRIM. There is no new technology that negates its utility. Garbage collection is not the same.
    Running SSDs without TRIM can lead to reduced longevity and system slowdown and absolutely increases write amplification, period."


    Post real-world experience from having booted and run via USB3.

    My guess is... you haven't any.

    Your claims are based upon words you've read on papers and from computer displays, and not from observed empirical evidence.

    In the real world, things are different.
     
  22. mikeboss, Jun 14, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017

    mikeboss macrumors 65816

    mikeboss

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    #22
    so, in your opinion, Apple, Microsoft, the various Linux distributions and all the manufacturers of SSDs are supporting the TRIM command just for fun?
     
  23. SaSaSushi, Jun 14, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017

    SaSaSushi macrumors 68040

    SaSaSushi

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    #23
    My claims are based on several factors, not the least of which being that it is a fact that running an SSD without TRIM enabled increases write amplification.

    Then there are the posts by many users to these very forums of compromised performance for which they saw an improvement by running fsck in recovery with TRIM enabled (as Weaselboy mentioned above).

    As for decreased longevity, time will tell.

    I think you need to be careful not to confuse your own personal experiences with those of the real world at large.
     
  24. kaibob macrumors regular

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    Jun 21, 2010
    Location:
    Prescott, Arizona
    #24
    I began booting my 2012 mini from an SSD in a USB 3 docking station in late 2013. This worked well, with read and write speeds of over 400 MB/S, and I posted my results in this forum at:

    https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/samsung-840-on-blackmagic-speed-test.1585480/#post-18546414

    After several years, computing speeds slowed noticeably and about a year ago the Blackmagic app reported write and read speeds of 30 MB/s and 110 MB/s, respectively. I spent a lot of time with Google troubleshooting this but nothing helped, and I finally went back to booting to the internal hard drive.

    My knowledge is limited and perhaps I did something wrong, but I don't know what it was. The drive was a Samsung 840 Pro and it always had at least 50 percent free space. Also, neither the computer nor disk utility reported any errors.
     
  25. Fishrrman macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    #25
    Kaibob wrote:
    "The drive was a Samsung 840 Pro and it always had at least 50 percent free space."

    I've never used Samsung SSD's.
    I've purposely avoided them, because -- even though the high-end models yield some of the fastest performance -- they seem to have more reported problems than do other drives, at least from reading posts here.

    It probably has something to do with the drive controller boards and designs.

    I've used Intel and Sandisk without problems.
    For those upgrading to an SSD, I recommend Intel, Sandisk and Crucial.
    I never recommend Samsung SSDs in my posts.
    But that's just me.

    I also do something that is going to make the hairs of others reading this stand on end.
    I -defrag- my SSDs. Yes, you read that right.
    After I do this, I use Drive Genius to zero out the single contiguous block of free space left.

    I'm going to get replies stating that I'm "wearing the drive out" prematurely by doing this, doing "writes" when such writes are unnecessary.

    Mebbe so. But again, my drives benchmark (using BlackMagic) at the same read/write speeds as "when new".

    I go with "what works".
    And that has worked for me, for almost five years now...
     

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