Boot from RAID 0 with Areca 1210

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by TheMasin9, Nov 8, 2010.

  1. TheMasin9 macrumors 6502a

    TheMasin9

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    Huber Heights, OH
    #1
    Hey guys,
    it has been a while since my last post, but i am running into a big issue with my mac pro. I just recently got a areca arc 1210 and i am trying build a bootable RAID 0 through the card. I have gotten snow leopard installed on the raid, but the system refuses to boot to the raid. Any assistance would be MORE than appreciated!!!
     
  2. philipma1957 macrumors 603

    philipma1957

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2010
    Location:
    Howell, New Jersey
    #2
    why do you think that card boots raid0 in snow leopard?
     
  3. TheMasin9 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    TheMasin9

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
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    Huber Heights, OH
    #3
    I was unaware that therenwould be any issues when booting from a raid 0. Has this been "prohibited" by the os for some time now? I thought the raid would essentially show pumas a drive to install the os to and subsequently boot from.
     
  4. philipma1957 macrumors 603

    philipma1957

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2010
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    Howell, New Jersey
    #4
    well the local expert on the site is nanofrog. I have found out that quite a few raid0 setups won't boot. Many cards don't allow it or support it.

    I have a mac pro 2010 quad core 2.8 I run a quad drive raid0 via software I use 4 caviar black 1.5tb hdds in a raid0 6tb volume. it has about 1tb of info and 5 tb blank gives me 400 MB/s read write.

    It would not boot the first three times I set it up. I had to install just a snow leopard with the mac pro software dvd. Then I migrated about 1 tb from an external osx hdd everything but apps.

    This gave me an internal osx volume about 1tb in size that boots. When you made the raid0 how did you load the osx via the oem software disk? or did you clone a osx via a hdd?
     
  5. goMac macrumors 603

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    Apr 15, 2004
    #5
    It's not prohibited by the OS, you just need to make sure you buy a card capable of supporting boot.

    (I boot my OS from a RAID 0.)
     
  6. TheMasin9 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    TheMasin9

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    Huber Heights, OH
    #6
    direct install

    i directly installed snow leopard to the raid with no issues whatsoever. It even made it through the rebooting portion of the install, however, it still is not allowing me to boot from the raid once the OS is installed.
     
  7. TheMasin9 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    TheMasin9

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    Dec 22, 2004
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    #7
    tried both 0 and 5

    if it makes any difference, i have tried using both raid 5 and raid 0 as the boot raids... no luck
     
  8. Bithero macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2010
    #8
    As far as I know (I use a 1220) these cards are not bootable due to the drivers. Only the higher end cards (1680/1880) of Areca are bootable, but I have no experience with these.
     
  9. cutterman macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    #9
  10. gugucom macrumors 68020

    gugucom

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Location:
    Munich, Germany
    #10

    +1

    I have an ARC-1210 and I have used two 80 GB Intel Postville SSDs in RAID0 to boot OS X 10.6 from the array. You have to install the right firmware as it was already said.

    After some time my only issue with the ARC-1210 is the lack of sleeping the Mac Pro. The card will not accept a sleep command.
     
  11. TheMasin9 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    TheMasin9

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    Dec 22, 2004
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    #11
    update bios

    can this be done through the cards web interface?
     
  12. VirtualRain macrumors 603

    VirtualRain

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2008
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    #12
    With no sleep support, terribly prolonged boot times to initialize the firmware, and a 500MB/s throughput bottleneck, I don't understand the desire to use this card for RAID0? :confused:

    Software RAID0 is simpler, cheaper (free) and just as fast if not faster.
     
  13. cutterman macrumors regular

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    Apr 27, 2010
    #13
    Yes
     
  14. TheMasin9 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    TheMasin9

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    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
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    #14
    Running into issues here, it is constantly hanging at "3/4 items complete" and i get no progress bar or anything...
     
  15. nanofrog macrumors G4

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    #15
    What browser are you using?

    I ask, as the web interface has had issues with Safari in the past (especially with firmware updates). I'd suggest using FireFox instead (never tried Opera as FireFox worked, and no longer have a MP on hand to test anything with).
     
  16. feins macrumors member

    feins

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    Aug 11, 2010
    Location:
    Malaysia
    #16
    Unable to boot from Raid Controller

    My Areca 1880i just arrived and i've setup with 3 WD RE4 since 1 of the MaxUpgrade back panel was defect and cant detect HDD so down to 3 HDD at the moment.

    I've an issue is that i cant boot OSX via the 1880i Raid Controller even i've flash the controller with EFI, im not sure what went wrong or does my flash was incorrect i use the Web Management to do the upgrade of the EFI Bios.

    I even upgrade the firmware to version 1.49 which is the latest available from Areca's FTP site and still the same.:(
     
  17. nanofrog macrumors G4

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    May 6, 2008
    #17
    See the above post; use Firefox, as it won't flash properly under Safari.
     
  18. cutterman, Dec 24, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2010

    cutterman macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    #18
    What are the specific issues? Does the raid volume show up when you hold down the alt key at startup?

    I recall another user had a similar problem. The fix was to install OSX to a MP-attached volume, install the Areca driver, then clone that to a Raid-based volume.

    You may want to revert back to 1.48 if above doesnt work. No changelog available for 1.49 nor is it listed yet on the web site for general use. I can verify that 1.48 boots using EFI BIOS.
     
  19. feins, Dec 24, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2010

    feins macrumors member

    feins

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    Location:
    Malaysia
    #19
    cutterman: I try hold down alt key while boot up there is no raid volume show up.

    I manage to boot from a Native HDD with SL and define the Raid Array using ArcHttp, from there i manage to install SL on to the new define HDD which Mac detect it as SCSI drive after that.

    But after i remove the Native HDD and boot up i got grey screen with a Folder icon flashing.

    nanofrog: It was default come with firmware 1.48 i follow the instruction to update the efi bios via ArcHttp using firefox as i notice that Safari don't work well with Areca Raid controller, from the update it prompt me that the update was successful but i still cant boot.

    But the funny is that i still manage to login into the Raid Controller via network means the controller was up but my Mac still cant boot with it.:(
     
  20. nanofrog macrumors G4

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    #20
    OK, I had the impression from your post the Flash wasn't taking, so figured that you used Safari. :eek:

    To get it to 1.49 properly, you have to Flash all the parts (you can skip boot, but if you're not sure, do all the parts). Then flash with the EFI portion (replaces boot.bin). The order is critical to success, so don't deviate.

    That takes care of the Flashing. ;)

    That said, the volume is avialable to the system (could still be running 1.48, so check via ARCHTTP to see what it's running; not sure you verified the revision or not). :D

    But you're not done in terms of getting it to boot OS X.

    1. Set the volume on the card as the boot location.
    2. Clone OS X from the disk it's currently on (OEM HDD, whatever) to the volume (you cannot make a clean installation directly to the volume, as there's no access to the system's firmware to set it as the boot location). CarbonCopy Cloner (CCC) or SuperDuper will be needed for this.
    3. Shut down, wait 10 - 15 seconds, then reboot.
     
  21. feins macrumors member

    feins

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Location:
    Malaysia
    #21
    Thanks to nanofrog

    I manage to get it boot after carbon copy the Mac OS. But the thing is that Areca mention its native support boot up via Raid Controller but seems not they should have it manage to detect the array while booting up the Mac so that fresh install can be perform.

    So one more question nanofrog since you are the guru around here do you have any experience that while bootcamp there is no fan control in Windows environment which cause the Mac overheat while doing heavy Cpu load application.

    I've been google around but seems there no solution at all if so why do botcamp exist?:(
     
  22. nanofrog macrumors G4

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    May 6, 2008
    #22
    If you read it again, you'll notice you have to get into the the system's firmware (motherboard settings), and select the boot location there (the array will show up).

    But as you cannot do this on a Mac Pro, it's not possible. This isn't a fault of the card, but a restriction imposed by Apple. They do not allow users direct or indirect acces (via a utility) to those settings. There's some limited access, such as changes made by Disk Utility, and when you set the array as the boot location within OS X.

    But to do a clean install directly to the array, you have to get access to the system settings (this is how you're normally able to put an OS installation in a system that doesn't have one). There's other reasons too, such as corruption (virus, bad sectors, ...) or the array failed, it's been fixed, and it's time to re-install the OS.

    Clones are handy anyway, but in the case of the MP, it's an absolute necessity to transfer the OS to the array. No way around this.

    It comes down to low level system interaction again (EFI has a portion called BIOS Emulation, which is what allows Windows and Linux to operate on the MP's board). Unfortunately, low level information doesn't pass properly between EFI and BIOS based hardware, even with this emulation active (disks are BIOS based, unless Apple's written EFI firmware or had it done; I think this is the case with the OEM DVD burners that shipped in 2009 systems to current - search the random seek/clicking thread/s here in MR). But the OEM ODD is an exception, as any HDD, SSD, or non Apple optical disk is BIOS based.

    You see such things with fan control and low level formatting/scanning a disk (i.e. try to scan/remap a disk with/for bad sectors - you have to use a PC).

    I'm not quite sure what you're asking here. :confused: But I'll take a stab at it anyway... :p

    Boot Camp was created so OS X and Windows could share a single disk, and is all Apple was interested in as to attract users interested in switching over from Windows (would allow them to load Windows and use their existing software until they became familiar with OS X and purchase software that can do the job natively in OS X.

    As per the RAID card issues, it's to do with the firmware and how it interacts between the system and card. The RAID card controlls its own SAS or SATA controller/s, not the system. So without direct control, the system cannot make the changes to the disks to get BC to work (EFI uses GPT, BIOS uses MBR, though there are GPT implementations, which is how software based RAID works). Unfortunately, Windows's implementation and OS X's are not the same (seems the offsets are different, which is why a Windows based software RAID won't work on an MP either). Even what the RAID card do is partly proprietary due to a lack of complete/unified open standard.

    There's one company that made it (CalDigit) work by using a cable that connected the card to the system's SATA ports (ICH). Essentially a bypass/hack method that allowed the array to be shared (means of giving the system direct access). It's out of production as I understand it, and it was slow (junk too when it first released <very unstable>, and the support dept. was a disaster).
     
  23. feins macrumors member

    feins

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    Aug 11, 2010
    Location:
    Malaysia
    #23
    TQVM nanofrog: for all the explanation on the low level portion.:D

    On the Fan issue as you might know sometime not all platform have the best application as i was use to work on an application call Tmpgenc and its only available on Windows platform its was an Video Transcoding application and it support virtually any format which we throw into it as you know Transcoding application use to be processor hunger application and require lor of processing power to work with.

    If i use that on bootcamp it will max out my CPU loading and mostly all CPU utilization will goes up to 90-100% and i notice that since the fans wont be control in Windows my CPU temp will shoot out to 100'C:eek: in less than few minute and i have to terminate the process immediately to prevent of frying my Processors.

    I've try using the application with Parallel and notice there is limitation in Parallel that only support maximum 8 virtual Core and max 8GB of RAM so its like i've been ditch 1/2 of the processing power of my Mac for the job.

    So have any suggestion of any good application that will be alternative to Tmpgenc as i've try Handbreak and it totally non compare to it.:(
     
  24. nanofrog macrumors G4

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    #24
    :cool: NP. :)

    I understand the situation (roast the CPU). But I don't know that type of software well to know what's a good solution (don't use it), so it might be a good idea to start a new thread to attract some answers from those that use this sort of application. ;)
     
  25. cutterman macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    #25
    @Feins

    As a temporary fix you could try setting processor affinity to fewer cores. Obviously this is not ideal and would slow the transcoding down but it may allow your CPUs to run cooler.

    Start Task Manager/Processes. Right click on the tempgenc process, choose set affinity, and check/uncheck the cores.
     

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