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Apple Hobo

macrumors 6502a
Mar 19, 2004
796
0
A series of tubes
Pearson said that computer consciousness would make feasible a whole new sphere of emotional machines, such as airplanes that are afraid of crashing.

Just what we need. :rolleyes:

What is it with humans and their inane desires to make machines more human? :rolleyes:

Q: Will Unix admins get charged with sexual harassment when they "finger" a computer or probe a computer's ports? :p

I would, however, like a machine to store and replay my dreams. :cool:
 

hob

macrumors 68010
Oct 4, 2003
2,004
0
London, UK
emw said:
Wouldn't that also make them afraid of flying? I already have enough trouble traveling with flight cancellations due to weather. I don't need planes deciding they "just don't feel right about taking off today."
We'd be able to create Marvin the Paranoid Android for real... and doors that enjoyed opening for you... Imagine that: tieing their pleasure centre into their primary task... Or getting them addicted to a drug/virus thing... (see Transmetropolitan...)
 

phreakout13

macrumors 6502
Jan 4, 2004
317
0
South Eastern MA
wordmunger said:
I'm not sure I buy it. This is making a tremendous number of assumptions about the "progress" of technology. Think about it -- Steve said we'd have 3 GHz G5s a year ago, and we still don't have them. Now extend that sort of prediction out 45 years and think about the number of things that have to go perfectly right in order to accomplish such a task.
computerFuture.jpg
 

Mr. Anderson

Moderator emeritus
Nov 1, 2001
22,568
6
VA
Flying Llama said:
Hahahahahaha!! Too funny! Man are we sometimes waaaay off! :eek:
I wonder what these guys are saying now. ;)


Yeah, that's great, we have some better than the Brainiac Home Computer that takes up a whole room - but where are all those flying cars we were supposed to have by now!?!?!

D :p
 

hob

macrumors 68010
Oct 4, 2003
2,004
0
London, UK
Flying Llama said:
Hahahahahaha!! Too funny! Man are we sometimes waaaay off! :eek:
I wonder what these guys are saying now. ;)
Sometimes? I think we're spectacularly bad at predicting the future! Niels Bohr once said "Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future"...

Wasn't the RAND corporation set up to look at nuclear warfare, cold-war defense etc...? I thought they came out with some of the stuff about megadeaths - how it would be "acceptable" to lose 10 million people here and there...
 

ifjake

macrumors 6502a
Jan 19, 2004
562
1
that pic was already discovered to be fake, and you can see it in the typewriter and the dude that looks kinda out of place.

but predictions are usually way to soon than how they actually end up happening, if they happen at all. i remember 4 years ago around the new years i watched A Space Odyssey: 2001 just for kicks.
 

rainman::|:|

macrumors 603
Feb 2, 2002
5,438
2
iowa
Yeah that photo is really, really fake. Composite of a handful of images. The room itself is an early nuclear submarine panel, IIRC.

I'd like them to understand how synapses work, before they start making declarations about future abilities. We barely understand most of the human brain, and electronic/biological implants are only beginning to be developed. While I've little doubt the brain will come to interact with electronics a lot in the future (controlling machinery directly, communicating, etc) I don't know that memories, as we know them, COULD ever be decoded or stored... This discussion is so hypothetical, it's not worth worrying about the potential ethical implications...

BS indeed!
 
broken_keyboard said:
I don't think computers as we know them will ever be able to think, there will have to be some fundamental hardware change first.

I agree. Fundamentally, the brain is a single unit that processes and stores information (we don't have a microprocessor and a harddrive). How do you seperate the processing impulses in the neurons from the storage impulses in the neurons? How exactly do you record a memory? You have to include not only the event information (time, place, duration) but all the sensory (visual, audio, smell, etc) information, plus any thoughts that you were having during that event the first time around and then sync it together- hell I can't even do that half the time and its my memory. Imagine if the information got out of sync- suddenly your first girlfriend would have James Earl Jones' voice and smell like cheese.
 

zelmo

macrumors 603
Jul 3, 2004
5,490
1
Mac since 7.5
The title of this thread reminds me of John Varley, the scifi author who wrote some interesting short stories based on a theory that people would be able to go to a memory "bank" and deposit their memories so that, upon their death, their saved data could be uploaded into a cloned body, allowing them to live forever, in a way. Imagine what it would be like to wake up suddenly and not remember the past several years because your prior "self" couldn't afford to get a more recent back up done.:eek: There was another story about a cube that plugged into your neck, permitting you to live the memories of someone else, like plugging in a cube and going on vacation to Africa, but as a lion.

Sorry for the OTP.
 

-Jeff

macrumors member
Feb 18, 2005
47
0
cube said:
That's a brain upload, not a download.

That's kind of interesting. It would be a download if the computer initiated the transfer. It would be an upload if the human brain initiated the transfer. If the person whose brain is being transferrerd initiates the transfer by clicking a download link on the computer, then is it an upload or dowload or both?

On the other hand, if second person initiated the transfer of the first person's brain by clicking a download link, it would be a download.

This is making my brain hurt.
 

RalfyRojas

macrumors newbie
May 5, 2005
21
0
emw said:
Wouldn't that also make them afraid of flying? I already have enough trouble traveling with flight cancellations due to weather. I don't need planes deciding they "just don't feel right about taking off today."

LOL!!!! Man, you beat me to it. I had that quote all queued up ready to comment on it. My concern is that such a plane might get a sudden case of amnesia and forget what it's supposed to do. Or what if said plane didn't like the people on board for whatever reason and was having suicidal feelings on that particular day? LOL the future's gonna be interesting for sure. :D
 

RalfyRojas

macrumors newbie
May 5, 2005
21
0
powermac666 said:
The title of this thread reminds me of John Varley, the scifi author who wrote some interesting short stories based on a theory that people would be able to go to a memory "bank" and deposit their memories so that, upon their death, their saved data could be uploaded into a cloned body, allowing them to live forever, in a way. Imagine what it would be like to wake up suddenly and not remember the past several years because your prior "self" couldn't afford to get a more recent back up done.:eek: There was another story about a cube that plugged into your neck, permitting you to live the memories of someone else, like plugging in a cube and going on vacation to Africa, but as a lion.

Sorry for the OTP.

Have you heard of the Raelian movement?

The founder of this sect, who appears to be complete loon, believes that such technology is feasibly and will be ready in our lifetimes. If you want his anecdote on how an encounter with a couple of martians shaped his religious views then Go here. Go to the videos section... his view is that cloning, along with memory transplantation is the answer to immortality. Crazier things have been said, I just wish he had a better way to peddle his ideas than with that sci-fi story of his encounter with E.T.'s.
 

redeye be

macrumors 65816
Jan 27, 2005
1,138
0
BXL
-Jeff said:
That's kind of interesting. It would be a download if the computer initiated the transfer. It would be an upload if the human brain initiated the transfer. If the person whose brain is being transferrerd initiates the transfer by clicking a download link on the computer, then is it an upload or dowload or both?

On the other hand, if second person initiated the transfer of the first person's brain by clicking a download link, it would be a download.

This is making my brain hurt.
I do hope the developers will think about this thing before releasing a beta. I would strongly sugest to only make it possible by download.
With this i mean, to avoid confusion:
Either initiated by the brain itself, or by a physically attached (bioport) device.

Suddenly i remember i had to go beat up some innocent kids...

This reminds me of HSS (the 'Hidden Sound System' from the Jiskefet Multilul show :D - dutch tv show)
 

beatle888

macrumors 68000
Feb 3, 2002
1,690
0
Mr. Anderson said:
Yeah, that's great, we have some better than the Brainiac Home Computer that takes up a whole room - but where are all those flying cars we were supposed to have by now!?!?!

D :p


locked away in the safe at dupont. unless they moved them to the government facility that keeps the extraterrestrial technology under wraps.
 

Plymouthbreezer

macrumors 601
Feb 27, 2005
4,337
253
Massachusetts
emw said:
Wouldn't that also make them afraid of flying? I already have enough trouble traveling with flight cancellations due to weather. I don't need planes deciding they "just don't feel right about taking off today."
I thought that was the best line of the story. :D
 

fitinferno

macrumors 6502
Apr 7, 2005
371
0
London, UK
RalfyRojas said:
Have you heard of the Raelian movement?

The founder of this sect, who appears to be complete loon, believes that such technology is feasibly and will be ready in our lifetimes. If you want his anecdote on how an encounter with a couple of martians shaped his religious views then Go here. Go to the videos section... his view is that cloning, along with memory transplantation is the answer to immortality. Crazier things have been said, I just wish he had a better way to peddle his ideas than with that sci-fi story of his encounter with E.T.'s.

That guy has seriously watched WAY too much Stargate...
 

emw

macrumors G4
Aug 2, 2004
11,172
0
redeye_be said:
I would strongly sugest to only make it possible by download.
Anyone who's accidentally wiped their PDA or address book due to a poorly setup preferences pane in iSync would agree with you.

"Be down in a minute, hon. Just need to backup my brain."

* Clicks "clean install" button by mistake. Formats brain. *

* Lays on floor drooling until wife reinitializes and restores from previous backup *
 

feakbeak

macrumors 6502a
Oct 16, 2003
925
1
Michigan
emw said:
Anyone who's accidentally wiped their PDA or address book due to a poorly setup preferences pane in iSync would agree with you.

"Be down in a minute, hon. Just need to backup my brain."

* Clicks "clean install" button by mistake. Formats brain. *

* Lays on floor drooling until wife reinitializes and restores from previous backup *
I would be in trouble - I'm single and live alone. I'd have to wait there on the floor drooling for a couple days until the neighbors or friends/family came to investigate. :eek:
 

emw

macrumors G4
Aug 2, 2004
11,172
0
feakbeak said:
I would be in trouble - I'm single and live alone. I'd have to wait there on the floor drooling for a couple days until the neighbors or friends/family came to investigate. :eek:
LOL. Just hope this is all driven by a Mac. Could you imagine a Windows-based system controlling this? People would be walking down the street and suddenly just reboot. Instead of Medic-alert bracelets you'd have to carry backups of your brain around for emergency re-installs. :D
 

savar

macrumors 68000
Jun 6, 2003
1,950
0
District of Columbia
technocoy said:
yes there are lots of things that were predicted and never happened, but that doesn't mean they aren't possible. we could very easily be flying around today had the interest an focus in travel been on that. if you had shown a photo and a desrcription of your mac and os x 50 years ago, they would have laughed you off the planet...

Laughed off the planet? Hardly. For one thing, a photo is altogether different than rampant speculation, but putting that aside for the moment, the development of the modern computer was pretty clear in the fifties. If you were standing in 1955 describing a 2005 machine, I'm sure some would be surprised or doubtful, but there would also be many who concede that its possible.

Change 50 years to something like 300 years, and then you might be correct.

One problem with making predictions 45 years out is that science is really facing some big hurdles now, hurdles that delve down into the fundamental workings of the universe. Nobody can be 100% sure that these riddles are even solvable. Its entirely possible that chip fab processes will never go below 10nm, simply because of quantum physics. Then again, maybe in 5 years a research will make a huge breakthrough and we'll actually be way *ahead* of our current trajectory.

Maybe in 20 years we'll have advanced nanotech. This is a big "if". It could be that we simply can't make nanotech feasible for most applications. But if we can, then it will change the world completely. By the way, IMO, the only way to "download" a brain in any reasonable amount of time is to have nanomachines that can visit each neuron, experiment on it, and return back estimates of its connectivity, threshold values, and activation function. If that's what this crackpot even means by "download" a brain. Its not like the brain has a serial port and a bootstrap program to download all of its "code".

But also, even if our brains can be downloaded into a computer world, what does that have to do with immortality? Its not like having a copy of your brain is a copy of you...its just a different person that remarkably thinks and acts exactly like you! Until they begin to be exposed to different stimuli and slowly develop differently.

Finally, to say that computers in 2050 will be as powerful as the human brain, he must be using a very vague definition of power. Anybody who knows much about neurology or computer science knows that the brain and a CPU are two entirely different types of computer. The brain has very slow switching times and massive parallelism, where as CPUs have extremely fast switching times and minimal parallelism. Comparing the two is an inane exercise, and adapting one machine to solve the problems that other one is good at seems to be a waste.

I'm not an AI expert, but I do know that real intelligence is still far, far off in the future. Hopefully by 2050 we have robots that can fend for themselves and figure out what we want them to do without us having to explicitly program them...but smart as a human? Nope, not in 2050. And neither will we have flying cities either. :)
 
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