Brand New MacBook Pro, Dead Pixel.

[gpeden]

Hi guys,

The very possibility that this could happen is why I purchased form a store with a 15 day no hassle return policy. In fact, I paid retail instead of saving a couple of hundred with an employee purchase program. I considered it to be "stuck pixel insurance" That said, next time I would buy refurbished from my employee purchase plan, uh, maybe.

Cheers!

Glen

 

[MowingDevil]

As someone who has been planning on buying his first Apple computer (Macbook Pro) these stories are bothersome. I thought Apple had great customer service. This is not an example of that. There should be no cost for an exchange in this situation.

On top of it, I'm being told by many on MR that I "need" to buy the Applecare package which is over $300. I thought Apple computers "just worked." I can buy a $700 Dell that will be in perfect condition out of the box and I will not need to buy some stupid extra warranty. Ug.

You don't "need" to buy anything including a Mac. AppleCare is a nice OPTION imo because laptops are more vulnerable to accidents just by the nature of being portable. Does Dell offer an extended warranty? I'm sure its free too.

I'm sure you'll be more happy w/ a $700, go for it and save your money.

 

[troy14]

I find this interesting.

Anyone who knows anything about LCD's should realize that dead pixels are inevitable.

But, many companys / stores will have a policy about dead pixels. I don't believe Apple has a description or list on what is acceptable or not acceptable.

That being said, demanding a replacement for 1 dead pixel I think is very dramatic and unneccessary.

 

[MowingDevil]

I hate to buck the trend but the nature of LCD manufacture means that the occasional dead pixel is inevitable and acceptable.

There is an ISO standard 13406-2 which categorises LCD panels into 4 classes (Class 1 to Class 4). Class 1 is for very demanding applications where no dead pixels are acceptable. These are therefore very expensive. Consumer electronics usually use Class 2 panels which tolerate around 1-5 dead pixels (depending on the exact nature of the fault).

This document by Hyundai is an interesting read - LINK (PDF)

My point is, if you want perfect displays, Apple would have to use Class 1 displays and your already expensive MacBook Pro gets a lot more expensive.

I know how you all feel though, but these strictly aren't faults - they're within tolerance given the class of the display. The fact people are getting them replaced by Apple is more a courtesy rather than a right. Apple are using Class 2 displays just like every other computer company which means the occasional dead pixel is inevitable.

Most logical post on stuck pixels ever! +1
Some people w/ their righteous indignation over 1 stuck pixel demanding an exchange as their due is getting a bit much. No one wants a dead pixel but everyone looses their nut about how comparative price per feature comparisons w/ other brands. You can't have it both ways.

As a whole us computer consumers are a whacky bunch, I highly doubt John Deere customers buying $80,000 machines are this picky...I wonder about BMW customers? I guess its because we're the artsy ones here on Macs. Are PC users this anal?

Do you guys HONESTLY think it is fair to ask Apple to replace your unit when it has a flaw affecting 1/1296000 of the pixels on the display?

I have a dead pixel on my iMac and it doesn't bother me. It's green and reasonably close to the middle of the display. The only time it is noticeable is if I am looking at a black screen and even then it's hard to see.

Its absurd unless its a bright distracting one right in the center of the screen. My iMac has a blue one on it but I only really notice it when its turning off and going black. I don't mind it all, my previous View Sonic had a blue one too so the funny thing is when I saw my iMac's i just thought that was a fact of life w/ flat screens. So far I'm lucky as my MBP doesn't appear to have one. Nothing I can see, is there a best way to test the screen aside from just looking around squinting?

So, I left with a "perfect" MBP and a free sleeve. -Very satisfied customer. To celebrate I went and had a Beer.

And, for the record, in 2005 I purchased an HDTV from dell. It arrived with one red stuck pixel. I called dell and they told me they consider 7 or less stuck or dead pixel to be acceptable. To this day, it still glows red.

Ah, yes a nice cold beer is a great way to celebrate indeed!

I had a very similar experience w/ Apple's customer service lately. I'm almost embarrassed at all the free stuff they offered me. I never asked either, they insisted. More importantly was the respect they treated me with, I could tell they actually cared.

Funny thing is, the way some people on here post they talk abo Dell like they're the Holy Grail of computing and put Apple to shame. Flawless computers w/ no dead pixels, more features and better customer service w/ free extended warranties for 1/4 the price of Apple's products. Dell must be perfect, why would anyone ever buy anything else?!?

 

[miamialley]

You don't "need" to buy anything including a Mac. AppleCare is a nice OPTION imo because laptops are more vulnerable to accidents just by the nature of being portable. Does Dell offer an extended warranty? I'm sure its free too.

I'm sure you'll be more happy w/ a $700, go for it and save your money.

Your sarcasm and eye roll are both obnoxious and unnecessary.

Ug. In another thread I was being told I should basically expect to have problems with my Mac that I won't be able to repair on my own because Macs are "complicated to repair" and apparently prone to failure beyond the standard warranty. I've always been able to repair those "$700 Dells" and any other PC on my own and found it ridiculous I would be told I should buy a warranty for an Apple computer of things. If I've never found a needed to buy an extended warranty for a PC, I shouldn't "need" to buy one for an Apple.

The attitudes on MR sometimes are less than appealing.

 

[MowingDevil]

Your sarcasm and eye roll are both obnoxious and unnecessary.

Ug. In another thread I was being told I should basically expect to have problems with my Mac that I won't be able to repair on my own because Macs are "complicated to repair" and apparently prone to failure beyond the standard warranty. I've always been able to repair those "$700 Dells" and any other PC on my own and found it ridiculous I would be told I should buy a warranty for an Apple computer of things. If I've never found a needed to buy an extended warranty for a PC, I shouldn't "need" to buy one for an Apple.

The attitudes on MR sometimes are less than appealing.

You know whats obnoxious and unnecessary, posts about how $700 Dells are superior to $2500 Macs. Then whining because an extended warranty is offered as an OPTION. If you feel comfortable doing the work yourself go ahead and do it. Myself I prefer not to so I get the extended warranty for portables only and would even if it was a PC. It has everything to do w/ the nature of moving the machine around so much and nothing to do w/ the brand. Less than appealing = PC users who 'experiment' w/ Macs and then bitch and moan about it.

To each their own but don't expect much sympathy on a Mac forum if you're going to gripe and make such absurd claims.

 

[pkoury]

AppleCare for much less than retail: http://www.lacomputercompany.com/

Personally I think they way Apple is trying to be perceived in the 'Pro' marketplace should dictate how they handle dead pixels in displays. As I told the rep on the phone, I could totally understand a dead pixel in an iMac or in a MacBook. But for the premium price of the computer there is no reason whatsoever that the display should have any imperfections. Now if she understands that (and works at Apple) I don't see why some people here are arguing the fact.

Yes they did send me a free hard drive as well. I was very pleased with how they dealt with the situation.

 

[miamialley]

You know whats obnoxious and unnecessary, posts about how $700 Dells are superior to $2500 Macs. Then whining because an extended warranty is offered as an OPTION. If you feel comfortable doing the work yourself go ahead and do it. Myself I prefer not to so I get the extended warranty for portables only and would even if it was a PC. It has everything to do w/ the nature of moving the machine around so much and nothing to do w/ the brand. Less than appealing = PC users who 'experiment' w/ Macs and then bitch and moan about it.

To each their own but don't expect much sympathy on a Mac forum if you're going to gripe and make such absurd claims.

Nowhere did I say $700 Dells are superior to $2500 Macs.

I wasn't whining b/c the extended warranty is offered as an "option." I was responding to others telling me I need to buy it specifically with an Apple computer. I already stated this.

 

[miamialley]

AppleCare for much less than retail: http://www.lacomputercompany.com/

Personally I think they way Apple is trying to be perceived in the 'Pro' marketplace should dictate how they handle dead pixels in displays. As I told the rep on the phone, I could totally understand a dead pixel in an iMac or in a MacBook. But for the premium price of the computer there is no reason whatsoever that the display should have any imperfections. Now if she understands that (and works at Apple) I don't see why some people here are arguing the fact.

Yes they did send me a free hard drive as well. I was very pleased with how they dealt with the situation.

I agree. I'm not sure why some people just throw their hands up and say "oh well." I'd still like to see the raw numbers of Late Pro owners who experience the dead pixel issue.

 

[NATO]

I agree. I'm not sure why some people just throw their hands up and say "oh well." I'd still like to see the raw numbers of Late Pro owners who experience the dead pixel issue.

Did you not read the post I left yesterday? Apple are using Class 2 displays on all their product line (same as eeeeevery other computer company). Now yes, the MacBook Pro's are very expensive machines, but they would be a LOT more expensive if Apple were to use Class 1 (ie, dead-pixel free) displays. Apple simply sources LCD panels from manufacturers and asks for Class 2 displays. Those manufacturers will send them panels which meet that specification, some of which will have some dead pixels or stuck pixels (but are within spec according to the class of the panel)

Apple have built the price of the display into the price of the overall product. If you want to demand absolute perfection you're going to need to put your hand in your pocket because the cost of Apple changing to Class 1 displays on the MacBook Pro will be substantial.

We're not saying 'Oh well' just because we like dead pixels (I hate them), but if you've any experience whatsoever with the electronics industry you will know that the consumer level LCD panels are allowed to have a number of dead pixels before the panel can be classed as faulty. It's more about being realistic than anything else.

Saying that, some display manufacturers are offering very good 'zero pixel defect' policies on their displays which is probably more for good customer service / PR, as I'm sure they're incurring a cost. That would be a step in the right direction for Apple. I guess it's like Google offering 7GB+ of storage for Gmail - they advertise such a huge storage space because they realise few people will ever use it. Same with LCD makers - by advertising a 'zero pixel defect' policy they keep everyone happy, hoping that few people will take them up on it (as each return costs them money).

Interesting support document by Apple - Link - Unfortunately they don't state their policy on how many pixel constitutes a fault, seems to be at their discretion.

 

[SWLinPHX]

AppleCare for much less than retail: http://www.lacomputercompany.com/

The account executive at MacMall where I ordered mine gave me the AppleCare for $299, at a $50 discount. I now see I can get it for $250 (which is enough in my opinion). Is the AppleCare refundable if I don't get another $50 off? I bought over $3100.00 in stuff on this order and I want to get the best price on it. I told him I was gonna wait and get the AppleCare before the year was up but he said how some people forget (wasn't really worried about that) and also he gave me that discount. I wonder if I can refer him to that link to get the other $50 off.

By the way, are we allowed to discuss where we buy our Macs? How many from Apple retail store, other retail store, Apple online or other online. Are we allowed to name resellers directly?

 

[hi-there]

had my unibody MacBook Pro for 2 days. No dead/bright pixels. Let's hope it stays that way.

 

[koobcamuk]

Do you guys HONESTLY think it is fair to ask Apple to replace your unit when it has a flaw affecting 1/1296000 of the pixels on the display?

I have a dead pixel on my iMac and it doesn't bother me. It's green and reasonably close to the middle of the display. The only time it is noticeable is if I am looking at a black screen and even then it's hard to see.

At MicroDirect (uk shop) they wont take back a monitor if it is under the threshold. I think it's 9 dead pixels on a 24" monitor (mine). I got lucky. 1 dead pixel? Get over it.

 

[Mackan]

I think what is most disturbing is that the quality of service you get is random. One guy gets his machine replaced for free, another doesn't. Annoys the hell out of me.

 

[clyde2801]

No pixel issues on mine, thank God.

No dead pixels on my iMac (white c2d, my LCD monitors, or anywhere else).

I think a whole lot of the replacement decision depends on where it is and what you do. If its hidden by the menu bar most of the time, big whoop.

If it's a black one in the middle of the screen that you're using to write the next great american novel, I could see how that would be annoying.

 

[MowingDevil]

Nowhere did I say $700 Dells are superior to $2500 Macs.

I wasn't whining b/c the extended warranty is offered as an "option." I was responding to others telling me I need to buy it specifically with an Apple computer. I already stated this.

Please don't make me roll my eyes again...

As someone who has been planning on buying his first Apple computer (Macbook Pro) these stories are bothersome. I thought Apple had great customer service. This is not an example of that. There should be no cost for an exchange in this situation.

On top of it, I'm being told by many on MR that I "need" to buy the Applecare package which is over $300. I thought Apple computers "just worked." I can buy a $700 Dell that will be in perfect condition out of the box and I will not need to buy some stupid extra warranty. Ug.

Am I connecting dots that aren't here? It sure sounds like you're saying that imo. For the record, I highly doubt all Dell's are "perfect condition out of the box." I don't know where you get this from but it would take an engineering miracle. Are there any Dell boards? I bet you they're flooded with complaints too. I'll also tell you now, any people who tell you that you "need" to get AppleCare are village idiots. I've been using Macs for 12 years and never once have I ever had a problem, never had to get a replacement, never had to get a single repair....ever! I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but just don't put too much stock on Chicken Little types running around saying the sky is falling. Now I purchased AppleCare with my new machine only because its a laptop and I've never owned one before. My reasoning is they take more abuse being carted around and I just wanted to know I'm covered for an extra 2 years. Well worth the money just for piece of mind imo. You can do all your own upgrades without voiding the warranty, AppleCare is just to extend it if you want. Trust me you don't need to get it, these are quality machines - just get it if you want it. Like they say, with most computer parts 'if its going to fail it will happen in the first year' so you're covered w/ the included warranty already.

As for Apple's customer service, in all my experience its second to none. Best company I've ever had the pleasure of dealing with. As far as I'm concerned they set the bar.

 

[miamialley]

Please don't make me roll my eyes again...



Am I connecting dots that aren't here? It sure sounds like you're saying that imo. For the record, I highly doubt all Dell's are "perfect condition out of the box." I don't know where you get this from but it would take an engineering miracle. Are there any Dell boards? I bet you they're flooded with complaints too. I'll also tell you now, any people who tell you that you "need" to get AppleCare are village idiots. I've been using Macs for 12 years and never once have I ever had a problem, never had to get a replacement, never had to get a single repair....ever! I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but just don't put too much stock on Chicken Little types running around saying the sky is falling. Now I purchased AppleCare with my new machine only because its a laptop and I've never owned one before. My reasoning is they take more abuse being carted around and I just wanted to know I'm covered for an extra 2 years. Well worth the money just for piece of mind imo. You can do all your own upgrades without voiding the warranty, AppleCare is just to extend it if you want. Trust me you don't need to get it, these are quality machines - just get it if you want it. Like they say, with most computer parts 'if its going to fail it will happen in the first year' so you're covered w/ the included warranty already.

As for Apple's customer service, in all my experience its second to none. Best company I've ever had the pleasure of dealing with. As far as I'm concerned they set the bar.

By 'perfect condition (Dells)' I meant that if it had some defect they'd give me a new one without some big hassle. I know manufacturing errors happen and that's fine, just give me the machine I should have.

I've taken PC notebooks back out of the box and had no problem with an immediate exchange. So when people are on this board saying Apple won't replace their out of the box macbooks because they aren't defective 'enough' (evidently) that alarms me. I expect even better customer service from Apple because that's what so many people claim that is one of Apple's strong points.

I thought it seemed ridiculous to be told Applecare is a must. Unfamiliar with Apple as I am, I can't speak to it. My primary point is that going from PC to Apple I should expect (I think) a better machine. That's my hope anyway.

 

[miamialley]

Did you not read the post I left yesterday? Apple are using Class 2 displays on all their product line (same as eeeeevery other computer company). Now yes, the MacBook Pro's are very expensive machines, but they would be a LOT more expensive if Apple were to use Class 1 (ie, dead-pixel free) displays. Apple simply sources LCD panels from manufacturers and asks for Class 2 displays. Those manufacturers will send them panels which meet that specification, some of which will have some dead pixels or stuck pixels (but are within spec according to the class of the panel)

Apple have built the price of the display into the price of the overall product. If you want to demand absolute perfection you're going to need to put your hand in your pocket because the cost of Apple changing to Class 1 displays on the MacBook Pro will be substantial.

We're not saying 'Oh well' just because we like dead pixels (I hate them), but if you've any experience whatsoever with the electronics industry you will know that the consumer level LCD panels are allowed to have a number of dead pixels before the panel can be classed as faulty. It's more about being realistic than anything else.

Saying that, some display manufacturers are offering very good 'zero pixel defect' policies on their displays which is probably more for good customer service / PR, as I'm sure they're incurring a cost. That would be a step in the right direction for Apple. I guess it's like Google offering 7GB+ of storage for Gmail - they advertise such a huge storage space because they realise few people will ever use it. Same with LCD makers - by advertising a 'zero pixel defect' policy they keep everyone happy, hoping that few people will take them up on it (as each return costs them money).

Interesting support document by Apple - Link - Unfortunately they don't state their policy on how many pixel constitutes a fault, seems to be at their discretion.

Not even one dead pixel should be acceptable. I don't think it unreasonable at all.

 

[miamialley]

I think what is most disturbing is that the quality of service you get is random. One guy gets his machine replaced for free, another doesn't. Annoys the hell out of me.

Exactly! Makes no sense. One guys gets a return no questions asked, the other guy gets **** for even asking for a return for the same issue.

 

[bcaslis]

AppleCare for much less than retail: http://www.lacomputercompany.com/

Personally I think they way Apple is trying to be perceived in the 'Pro' marketplace should dictate how they handle dead pixels in displays. As I told the rep on the phone, I could totally understand a dead pixel in an iMac or in a MacBook. But for the premium price of the computer there is no reason whatsoever that the display should have any imperfections. Now if she understands that (and works at Apple) I don't see why some people here are arguing the fact.

Yes they did send me a free hard drive as well. I was very pleased with how they dealt with the situation.

How do they offer the AppleCare so cheap? Are they legitimate, have you used them?

 

[MowingDevil]

Whatchew talkin' 'bout Willis?!?!?

By 'perfect condition (Dells)' I meant that if it had some defect they'd give me a new one without some big hassle. I know manufacturing errors happen and that's fine, just give me the machine I should have.

I've taken PC notebooks back out of the box and had no problem with an immediate exchange. So when people are on this board saying Apple won't replace their out of the box macbooks because they aren't defective 'enough' (evidently) that alarms me. I expect even better customer service from Apple because that's what so many people claim that is one of Apple's strong points.

I thought it seemed ridiculous to be told Applecare is a must. Unfamiliar with Apple as I am, I can't speak to it. My primary point is that going from PC to Apple I should expect (I think) a better machine. That's my hope anyway.

Firstly, lets get this straight....by "perfect condition right out of the box" you are trying to sell me that you meant they'd do an exchange for any type of flaw regardless of how small for free? Are we in the same dimension right now? In *my* world "perfect right out of the box" means you buy computer+open box=perfect. There is no exchange needed. Your rationale makes me think of Twilight Zone or Sliders. Seriously.

Secondly, Apple has the BEST customer service out there, bar none! If you buy a computer and it is defective do you honestly believe they won't fix or replace it? I think you've been getting poor advice or reading some extremely negative posts. Take it with a grain of salt, some people are just completely unreasonable and hyper obsessive compulsive. Some posters would return a perfectly good computer because an F key is out by .001 mm and they saw it by using a magnifying glass at table level view. Others say to return a computer because its missing a screen cleaning cloth. Others say to return it if there's dust under the glass by the bezel that can ONLY be seen by shining a black light on it even if it can't be seen at ALL under normal viewing conditions. THIS is the type crap that Apple has to put up with. Anytime I've experienced or heard of REASONABLE issues Apple has always come through and looked after the customer. I had a computer stolen BEFORE it even arrived at my house and Apple replaced it immediately w/o making me jump through hoops and do the red-tape dance. On top of that they sent me a free bluetooth wireless mouse for my troubles. THAT is good customer service.

Thirdly, I'll say it again; you don't *need* AppleCare whatsoever. Your new computer comes with a FULL one year warranty PLUS you have 14 days to return you computer no questions asked. Anyone who says they couldn't return their Mac because it wasn't defective enough aren't telling you the whole story. If you do buy a Mac you will be getting a better computer, these forums can scare the crap out of a person if you believe all the hysteria. I've had a few Macs over the past decade and never one problem. I just purchased a brand spanking new MBP and guess what? It doesn't have a single defect, its perfect and I love it! Before it arrived the threads here were giving me anxiety, I was expecting all kinds of problems. The bottom line is the majority of posters commenting are the minority who are unhappy or have encountered problems...my guess is the majority of the people happy w/ their products don't feel the need to post about it.

 

[MowingDevil]

Not even one dead pixel should be acceptable. I don't think it unreasonable at all.

I looked up "unreasonable" in Wikipedia and it linked directly to your post.

 

[SWLinPHX]

How do they offer the AppleCare so cheap? Are they legitimate, have you used them?

As I mentioned earlier, AppleCare is a purchase that resellers have some "wiggle room" to discount as they wish, as my sales rep did by $50, but I bought over $3100.00 from him.

As far as Apple vs. other computer companies, I have always believed they make a superior product. But no matter how great they are, any company that has a monopoly on selling a product knows you have nowhere else to go to get the same thing, so there is always a little less incentive to be completely lenient with customers without competition.

When I first got a Mac in '96, I too thought it was strange that Apple did not take (or allow its resellers to take) returns for the most part and had a lock on prices. But I soon learned with a Mac, it is more like you "adopt" it. They will work with you until it's right, but you can't just use it a month then return it for a refund because you changed your mind or because there is a problem. They will guarantee to fix or replace it under warranty, but refunds should never be expected from Apple or Apple resellers.

 

[clyde2801]

difference between having and not having applecare

If I don't have extended applecare, I'll spend two years praying every day that my machine won't break.

If I do have it, I spend two years praying every day that it will...

 

[miamialley]

Firstly, lets get this straight....by "perfect condition right out of the box" you are trying to sell me that you meant they'd do an exchange for any type of flaw regardless of how small for free? Are we in the same dimension right now? In *my* world "perfect right out of the box" means you buy computer+open box=perfect. There is no exchange needed. Your rationale makes me think of Twilight Zone or Sliders. Seriously.

Secondly, Apple has the BEST customer service out there, bar none! If you buy a computer and it is defective do you honestly believe they won't fix or replace it? I think you've been getting poor advice or reading some extremely negative posts. Take it with a grain of salt, some people are just completely unreasonable and hyper obsessive compulsive. Some posters would return a perfectly good computer because an F key is out by .001 mm and they saw it by using a magnifying glass at table level view. Others say to return a computer because its missing a screen cleaning cloth. Others say to return it if there's dust under the glass by the bezel that can ONLY be seen by shining a black light on it even if it can't be seen at ALL under normal viewing conditions. THIS is the type crap that Apple has to put up with. Anytime I've experienced or heard of REASONABLE issues Apple has always come through and looked after the customer. I had a computer stolen BEFORE it even arrived at my house and Apple replaced it immediately w/o making me jump through hoops and do the red-tape dance. On top of that they sent me a free bluetooth wireless mouse for my troubles. THAT is good customer service.

Thirdly, I'll say it again; you don't *need* AppleCare whatsoever. Your new computer comes with a FULL one year warranty PLUS you have 14 days to return you computer no questions asked. Anyone who says they couldn't return their Mac because it wasn't defective enough aren't telling you the whole story. If you do buy a Mac you will be getting a better computer, these forums can scare the crap out of a person if you believe all the hysteria. I've had a few Macs over the past decade and never one problem. I just purchased a brand spanking new MBP and guess what? It doesn't have a single defect, its perfect and I love it! Before it arrived the threads here were giving me anxiety, I was expecting all kinds of problems. The bottom line is the majority of posters commenting are the minority who are unhappy or have encountered problems...my guess is the majority of the people happy w/ their products don't feel the need to post about it.

1. No, not regardless of how small, but a dead pixel, yes. Anything I would deem inappropriate for an exchange (I know some people, as you describe, are unreasonable as to what they consider cause for a return). And my intention was to say Dell would provide a computer out of the box which I would deem acceptable. (even if I had to exchange one)

2. Apple's customer service is what I've always heard about. Those on this board explaining this "is the worst customer service they've seen with a new Apple line" begs an Apple newbie to ask what's going on. Telling someone to go home with a dead pixel is not okay to me.

3. I hope you're right that this issue (defects out of the box) is not widespread. Glad yours is fine.