BREAKING: Microsoft Proposes Yahoo! Takeover at $31 per Share (44 Billion $ Takeover)

[hulugu]

I see where I was wrong. 87% is 87% no matter if its 87/100 or 174/200. Because along with the increase of new users, both parties experience new users.

However, Microsoft [the big company] is in the most favorable position. Apple [the little company], gets, what, maybe 75% of its users from people who go to Mac OS X to "escape" Windows.

Now, even with how much Vista was criticized, outsold all of Mac OS X (been out 7 years) in 8 months. What happens if Windows 7 is good? Thats what I think Apple has to worry about - another successful Windows. If that happens, Apple's main supply line for new users is suddenly cut when Windows suddenly satisfies its users needs. It has to come sometime.

In the case of Apple, no matter how good their OS "just works", Windows satisfies the large majority of users. So they see no reason to change.

Well, this makes the assumption that new users will stay with Windows even if Windows 7 is awesome. This assumes that OSX doesn't become equally as awesome. This also assumes that Microsoft has woken up and is capable of coding an awesome operating system. And, this assumes that users continue to be satisfied with Windows.

I've been thinking about Microsoft and inertia. Windows has been a mile-long freight train winding through the countryside. But sometime ago, they ran out of coal, and thus the train has been coasting on its own inertia, driven forward by the shear force of it's initial movement. But, gradually, the train is slowing. Until someone fires that engine again, Microsoft will eventually grind to a halt and once that happens, it will take an amazing amount of energy and luck to get it started again.
So, Windows 7 better be really, really good.

 

[Syrus28]

Well, this makes the assumption that new users will stay with Windows even if Windows 7 is awesome. This assumes that OSX doesn't become equally as awesome. This also assumes that Microsoft has woken up and is capable of coding an awesome operating system. And, this assumes that users continue to be satisfied with Windows.

Well many people already take Mac OS X as superior, and look where that has gotten them. 8% market share. It will take a lot more than just being better. It has to be a combination of being better, and Windows being significantly, and I mean really significantly, worse.

I've been thinking about Microsoft and inertia. Windows has been a mile-long freight train winding through the countryside. But sometime ago, they ran out of coal, and thus the train has been coasting on its own inertia, driven forward by the shear force of it's initial movement. But, gradually, the train is slowing. Until someone fires that engine again, Microsoft will eventually grind to a halt and once that happens, it will take an amazing amount of energy and luck to get it started again.
So, Windows 7 better be really, really good.

With all this figurative speech, you forget that Microsoft still just had its best quarter ever, making 3x as many profits, and grew faster than Apple. Also, Microsoft was able to churn out a highly criticized Windows version called Vista and put it against the so called "Most Advanced OS in the world" and completely burn it's total market share in 8 months. All I'm saying is, Apple better be ready. Microsoft isn't stupid.

 

[hulugu]

Well many people already take Mac OS X as superior, and look where that has gotten them. 8% market share. It will take a lot more than just being better. It has to be a combination of being better, and Windows being significantly, and I mean really significantly, worse.


With all this figurative speech, you forget that Microsoft still just had its best quarter ever, making 3x as many profits, and grew faster than Apple. Also, Microsoft was able to churn out a highly criticized Windows version called Vista and put it against the so called "Most Advanced OS in the world" and completely burn it's total market share in 8 months. All I'm saying is, Apple better be ready. Microsoft isn't stupid.

I'm not forgetting how indomitable Microsoft really is. Florid prose aside, you can't compare Microsoft to Apple, you should be comparing Microsoft of 2007 to Microsoft of 2001. According to the NDP group, sales of Vista were 56% less than Windows XP during the same release period. Of course, the PC market is 56% larger than it was and according to Microsoft more than 80% of people get their operating system when they buy a new computer, but nonetheless this is a change.

Apple is small and it's not Microsoft's only competitor.

 

[Syrus28]

I'm not forgetting how indomitable Microsoft really is. Florid prose aside, you can't compare Microsoft to Apple, you should be comparing Microsoft of 2007 to Microsoft of 2001. According to the NDP group, sales of Vista were 56% less than Windows XP during the same release period. Of course, the PC market is 56% larger than it was and according to Microsoft more than 80% of people get their operating system when they buy a new computer, but nonetheless this is a change. Apple is small and it's not Microsoft's only competitor.

According to the NDP, software sales as a whole has been rather flat from 2000-2006. In the year, 2007 software sales generated a 15% increase from last year, from $2.9 Billion to $3.3 Billion. Vista and Office 2007 are credited for 80% of this growth. And while Vista sales are down from the initial debut of XP, Windows [Vista] sales are up 40% from 2006.

Now Office 2007... Thats another story. Sales of Office 2007 are up 100% compared with sales of Office 2003 in its initial months. That led Office to account for 17 percent (by dollar volume) of all software sold at retail stores last year. So yes its a change. A change in the right direction.

 

[hulugu]

According to the NDP, software sales as a whole has been rather flat from 2000-2006. In the year, 2007 software sales generated a 15% increase from last year, from $2.9 Billion to $3.3 Billion. Vista and Office 2007 are credited for 80% of this growth. And while Vista sales are down from the initial debut of XP, Windows [Vista] sales are up 40% from 2006.

Now Office 2007... Thats another story. Sales of Office 2007 are up 100% compared with sales of Office 2003 in its initial months. That led Office to account for 17 percent (by dollar volume) of all software sold at retail stores last year. So yes its a change. A change in the right direction.

Interesting. I stand corrected.

 

[Syrus28]

Interesting. I stand corrected.

Believe me. I was suprised too

Here's the link

 

[robanga]

There can be no doubt that this industry is still largely being driven by the folks in Redmond. Their success in 2007, even with all of the problems and bad press that Vista has faced, is remarkable. I guess that comes with having such a large share of the market. Any upgrade, even one with issues generates a lot of money.

A lot of the initial resistance I saw in people I work with and around to Office 2007, has evaporated and they are upgrading left and right. It won't be long before IT departments force the upgrade.

Vista is not even close to being universally loved, but one can not argue with the numbers above.

Apple is hot now though, and will no doubt gain share. Can you imagine 15% share in OS on the desk? That would be awesome.

 

[surferfromuk]

Indeed it doesn't. It was my over-reaction.


Why would their sales decline by 20% 3 years in a row after a record quarter? Maybe Im not getting this. Can you please explain


No matter your opinion (which it is, an opinion) Microsoft is/has still doing better than Apple recently, if you look at the numbers


I don't understand your post. What sign is there are Windows/Office sales "decreasing" at all, let alone 20-30%. Windows Vista sold 100 million copies in 8 months. MS Office 2007 "sales rose 98 percent and shipments increased 61 percent" than its previous version.

OK?


If that's droves, Vista is selling like candy. Vista went from 0% to 10% market share in 8 months!

Microsoft owning 90% of the worlds desktop is like one company making 90% of the worlds food (junk food at that) - and your argument is that because 'people are still eating' Microsoft's 'food' that they are an incredible success.

The short of it is - people need to 'eat' and until 2 years ago most people didn't even know Apple sold computers and Apple wasn't in a position to 'feed the world'.

That's changing and people are considering 'a healthier diet'.

Now, unless you really have been sent here from Microsoft to wage war on Apple fans, please do not tell me that you think Vista is a superior O/S to OSX?

Which means that Microsoft's' continuing market share dominance is not based upon being the superior product but merely by ignorance and complacency in the purchasing public and maybe a few dirty shenanigans by Microsoft ( as is their standard operating procedure)

Now I'm not saying Apples is perfect or going to take over the world or that Microsoft is going to have a 20% decline in sales but for the first time in my living memory I've finally seen and 'chink' in Microsoft's armor AND they have to support an incredbile amount of operating costs which makes them vulnerable to collapse in weak market conditions - especially if they go spend $40B on a failing search engine company whose assets could simply walk out of the door - that is worth a speculative fantasy which is what I did.

Too bad that Steve Balmer doesn't like that reality and sent you here to 'fight your corner'.

In short, we can dream can't we - of a world free from Microsoft's desktop tyranny, incompetence and bully boy business tactics ?

If Steve Jobs had not been kicked out of Apple in 85 we'd have seen OSX Leopard in 1995 and we'd be on OSX 20 by now - that's the difference - the world lost out cos Microsoft got given the whole thing on a plate - for free.

 

[Unspeaked]

Microsoft owning 90% of the worlds desktop is like one company making 90% of the worlds food (junk food at that) - and your argument is that because 'people are still eating' Microsoft's 'food' that they are an incredible success.

But how often is the market leader also considered the "best?"

Walmart is the retail leader, McDonalds is the restaurant leader, Ford is the automotive leader (in the US), Carrie Underwood is the music sales leader.

By nature, for something to be "Number 1" it needs to be vapid and appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Now, unless you really have been sent here from Microsoft to wage war on Apple fans, please do not tell me that you think Vista is a superior O/S to OSX?

Which means that Microsoft's' continuing market share dominance is not based upon being the superior product but merely by ignorance and complacency in the purchasing public and maybe a few dirty shenanigans by Microsoft ( as is their standard operating procedure)

Now I'm not saying Apples is perfect or going to take over the world or that Microsoft is going to have a 20% decline in sales but for the first time in my living memory I've finally seen and 'chink' in Microsoft's armor AND they have to support an incredbile amount of operating costs which makes them vulnerable to collapse in weak market conditions - especially if they go spend $40B on a failing search engine company whose assets could simply walk out of the door - that is worth a speculative fantasy which is what I did.

Too bad that Steve Balmer doesn't like that reality and sent you here to 'fight your corner'.

In short, we can dream can't we - of a world free from Microsoft's desktop tyranny, incompetence and bully boy business tactics ?

The trouble with this argument is that you're looking at Microsoft as Apple's competitor.

In a sense, they are. But Apple's real competitors are Dell, Sony, HP and company.

As much as Mac users hate to admit it sometimes - because we're all so in love with the operating system and user interface - Apple is a hardware company above all else. OS X, iLife, the iTunes Music Store and other goodies are just there to drive sales of MacPros, iMacs, MacBook and iPods. That's their bread and butter.

 

[diamond.g]

The trouble with this argument is that you're looking at Microsoft as Apple's competitor.

In a sense, they are. But Apple's real competitors are Dell, Sony, HP and company.

As much as Mac users hate to admit it sometimes - because we're all so in love with the operating system and user interface - Apple is a hardware company above all else. OS X, iLife, the iTunes Music Store and other goodies are just there to drive sales of MacPros, iMacs, MacBook and iPods. That's their bread and butter.

Which is why I was confused. How can Apple sell more OS X based systems than all of the PC manufacturers combined?

Until that happens MS will always have more of the market (percentage or otherwise) than Apple. AFAIK the only way for OS X to take over would be to decouple it from the hardware. Apple has tried that once and it nearly killed them, I don't see things being much different this time around either.

 

[gifford]

Which is why I was confused. How can Apple sell more OS X based systems than all of the PC manufacturers combined?

Until that happens MS will always have more of the market (percentage or otherwise) than Apple. AFAIK the only way for OS X to take over would be to decouple it from the hardware. Apple has tried that once and it nearly killed them, I don't see things being much different this time around either.

Give apple 3 years and OSX will be installed on more devices than all MSFT's OS offerings combined.
This, for some of you microsoft lovers , may be hard to understand as it requires foresight.

To quote my previous post as to reasons why...

I'm talking about the fact that in the not too distant future microsofts OS monopoly will have disappeared. Many many more phones are sold than computers, but phones will BECOME the computers of the future.

It will not be very long before Windows OS is overtaken by numerous other smartphone OS's, OSX being one of them , Android another.

Infact in terms of installed operating systems I can only guess that windows is already in second place to Symbian, though I see little future in this OS and it's popularity will dwindle as it was designed for an age of exceptionally low processor speeds which we are thankfully through.

Now the real game begins, it's possible to run a full operating system on a mobile, and I do not believe msft has the ability to succeed in this market.
And if they fail, the stranglehold they once had will be gone forever, the future is in the hands of Apple and Google.
Unix will eventually power everything, and what can be given away free will be given away free. To survive in the future you will either have make money from advertising, or from selling hardware, which is why google and apple are so well placed.

 

[diamond.g]

Give apple 3 years and OSX will be installed on more devices than all MSFT's OS offerings combined.
This, for some of you microsoft lovers , may be hard to understand as it requires foresight.

To quote my previous post as to reasons why...

Not a MSFT lover by any means, I am just trying to understand where some of this MS is dead rhetoric was coming from.

If you are saying devices in general you may want to know that windows can be found in more devices than os x as well.

Overall I would be stoked to actually get an xMac. As soon as Apple makes one they will get all those people that like to upgrade their own hardware, but are tired of Windows and bored with Linux. Otherwise why else is the OS86 thing so big?

 

[Unspeaked]

Give apple 3 years and OSX will be installed on more devices than all MSFT's OS offerings combined.

That is crazy, and a perfect example of the things Mac users say that make us look like we live in a bubble (or reality distortion field, if you will).

 

[Syrus28]

Microsoft owning 90% of the worlds desktop is like one company making 90% of the worlds food (junk food at that) - and your argument is that because 'people are still eating' Microsoft's 'food' that they are an incredible success.

Anyway you look at it, Windows is a enormous success. Your confusing success with being the best. Any way you look at it, Wal-Mart, Ford, or even Carrie Underwood are all an enormous success. Never did I say they were "the best".

That's changing and people are considering 'a healthier diet'.

Now, unless you really have been sent here from Microsoft to wage war on Apple fans, please do not tell me that you think Vista is a superior O/S to OSX?

Yes, because its impossible to think Vista is better than Leopard right? Apple fanboyism at its best. Besides that, I do not think Vista is better than Mac. However, I don't hold Mac OS X on some pedestal of greatness that all other OS's fail to compare. Thats the difference between me and you.

Which means that Microsoft's' continuing market share dominance is not based upon being the superior product but merely by ignorance and complacency in the purchasing public and maybe a few dirty shenanigans by Microsoft ( as is their standard operating procedure)

Windows doesn't have to be the superior product. It is, however, able to satisfy the large majority users, or else the majority of people would be looking for an alternative. Especially considering Apple brand recognition is at its highest. But why don't they? Because not everyone buy $1000 computers or has a need for half the stuff Mac does better than Windows. Or maybe they have some software that is dependent on Windows. Maybe they like to play Computer Games? Whatever the reason, Apple doesnt satisfy their needs. or else they would have the dominant market share.

Now I'm not saying Apples is perfect or going to take over the world or that Microsoft is going to have a 20% decline in sales but for the first time in my living memory I've finally seen and 'chink' in Microsoft's armor AND they have to support an incredbile amount of operating costs which makes them vulnerable to collapse in weak market conditions - especially if they go spend $40B on a failing search engine company whose assets could simply walk out of the door - that is worth a speculative fantasy which is what I did.

Sure, its ok to speculate, but when people start to ignore the numbers right in front of them, and calling for the fall of Microsoft, it just gets annnoying.

Windows sales are up 40% over the previous year, Office 2007 sales are up 100%+ over the sales of Windows 2003 over the same period.

Vista/Office 07 are though to be responsible for 80% of the 15% increase in software sales of 2007 over 2006.

Windows Vista, in 8 months, sold more than Mac OS X has did in 7 years.

The Xbox division just posted it's first profits [$537 million].

The Devices/Entertainment Division as a whole posted 3% profit increase (despite Zune).

Microsoft as a whole just had its best quarter ever. Profits grew at a rate faster than Apple's [79% vs ~50%].

So while you may think you see a 'chink' in Microsoft's armor, it just shows how ignorant you are. Or at least explain more. Shows some examples of such weakness instead of "forecasting" your own opinion on how Microsoft is falling, because the numbers just don't show it.

Too bad that Steve Balmer doesn't like that reality and sent you here to 'fight your corner'.

Pssh... As long as he would pay me...

In short, we can dream can't we - of a world free from Microsoft's desktop tyranny, incompetence and bully boy business tactics ?

If Steve Jobs had not been kicked out of Apple in 85 we'd have seen OSX Leopard in 1995 and we'd be on OSX 20 by now - that's the difference - the world lost out cos Microsoft got given the whole thing on a plate - for free.

Whatever you say buddy

 

[a456]

This buyout which relies on MS taking out a loan in order not to use up all of their cash reserves would be great - for Apple. Yahoo lags so far behind Google and MSN Live Search lags so far behind Yahoo. MS will end up cash strapped, losing money on its gadgets like the XBOX and Zune, and desperately trying to find the money they need to put together a half decent (and I really mean "half" decent) Windows 7. Meanwhile they will be still way behind Google.

Ballmer said the other day that MS needed to spend more on advertising Vista - well there will be no advertising budget with the way MS are throwing away cash at the moment. Steve Jobs must be pissing himself laughing at all the mistakes MS keep making.

 

[BongoBanger]

gifford, your argument falls down for the same reasons posted in other topics - the OSX used in the iPhone and iPod Touch is not the same as the OSX used in Macs (i.e. Tiger and Leopard), it's an item specific variant. Therefore if you're comparing OSX as an operating system you have to accept it has these variants and compare it to every variant of Windows, not just Vista. This would include all previous Windows operating systems, the Xbox, Xbox 360, Windows Mobile, the Zune (LOL), etc otherwise it's not a fair comparison. Vista is MS's latest iteration of a PC operating system just as Leopard is Apple's. That's what should be compared directly.

As for market share, I'd point out that sites like marketshare.hitlist.com (which show Macs claiming between 5 and 7% of web traffic) and w3schools.com (which shows 3 to 4%) are only based on browser activity and even then only on a subset of sites. What's of more relevance is PC unit sales volume where Apple has improved but remains a niche product largely centred on the North American market.

Thus reports of Microsoft's imminent demise are greatly exagerated.

 

[Lord Sam]

If this happens, it'll put Microsoft in more of a position to actually do things, instead of lounging about, letting it's huge "Empire" collapse on itself.