Bruce Willis Considering Lawsuit Against Apple Over iTunes Store Music Transferability [Updated]

[hellodon]

Not for nothin, but Bruce Willis should have read the terms before buying digital music.

This is why I still buy CD's and rip them myself...whether I throw them away or store them after that, I'm still better off and in most cases the week something comes out, it's cheaper to buy on CD.

Good luck McClane

 

[roasted]

WTF serious how about just leave yea kid some money to buy the songs or just ya iTunes password. or even better give her the song and leave her $29 to get iTunes match.

Sssshhh. Quiet.

That whole karma thing can be a real bummer. Go get 'em Bruce!

 

[ncaissie]

Couldn't he just give the account to his kids?

The problem with leaving your account is that you can only use one account so all of her/his current stuff would have to be removed or she/he would have to carry two devices.
Not practical.

 

[davidinva]

Original article was in a British tabloid. According to TechCrunch, Bruce Willis has denied the story.

http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/03/bruce-willis-itunes-music-library/

 

[KdParker]

The problem with leaving your account is that you can only use one account so all of her/his current stuff would have to be removed or she/he would have to carry two devices.
Not practical.

But you can use 5 devices on one account. Between iPhone, iPad, ML,..etc most people do have the 2 devices.

 

[BFizzzle]

I think he is DAMN right! If you can leave your CDs, DVDs, Blu-Rays, books to your family when you die, you should be able to leave digital contents too!

leave her your itunes account info?? Then you can login to that and download purchases again..



i do agree, i wish they would be able to actually own what you purchased!

 

[VenusianSky]

Willis has discovered that, like anyone who has bought music online, he does not actually own the tracks but is instead 'borrowing' them under a licence.

This should have been the telltale sign that the story was fake.

Anyone that buys music on CD, vinyl, cassette from anywhere doesn't actually own the music. They never have. The record companies typically own the music.

 

[Bug-Creator]

This should have been the telltale sign that the story was fake.

Anyone that buys music on CD, vinyl, cassette from anywhere doesn't actually own the music. They never have. The record companies typically own the music.

Well, but you still own that copy of the music ....

 

[VenusianSky]

Well, but you still own that copy of the music ....

Technically, it is that you are "licensing" the music for personal use. Owning means you could sell it to somone else. If the story was true, he should be able to transfer the licenses of his music to his children.

 

[blucable]

I love apple products and stuff, but something I have never done in my whole life is purchase mp3 from them. I always go to walmart or best buy and get my hard copy of my own music, then there I put it anywhere I want whatever times I want and give it to whoever I want.

 

[manu chao]

Nobody's talking about uploading the song anywhere. I'm talking about being able to give away or sell a CD for example if I wanted to.

How do you sell a digital audio download? If you sell a software license (which nowadays is most often just a digital download), you essentially sell the serial number. And once you've sold it, you can't use the serial number anymore. But when you e-mail somebody a digital audio download you can still use it yourself.

When you buy a CD, you own the physical piece but you don't own the right to do with it what you want. You are not allowed to play in on the radio, use it in movie or commercial, or play it in a club or a bar.

When you buy car, you can do with it what you want, eg, run a taxi service or use it in a movie or a commercial. The difference is that music is intellectual property and while you can buy intellectual property (eg, transferring ownership from one record label to another), most people just buy the right to use the intellectual property in a limited set of circumstances.

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I love apple products and stuff, but something I have never done in my whole life is purchase mp3 from them. I always go to walmart or best buy and get my hard copy of my own music, then there I put it anywhere I want whatever times I want and give it to whoever I want.

You can give your music purchased from Apple to anybody you want as well. It is just file. I really don't understand why people still insinuate that music comes with any DRM. It doesn't, and hasn't for years.

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Well, but you still own that copy of the music ....

No, you don't own the copy, ie, the actual data, you own the physical media it is on and you own the license to play for personal use.

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The problem with leaving your account is that you can only use one account so all of her/his current stuff would have to be removed or she/he would have to carry two devices.
Not practical.

What a nonsense, you can have media from as many accounts as you want in your iTunes library or on your iPods, iPhones and iPads. I have stuff from two different accounts in my library and there are no problems whatsoever.

 

[GadgetDon]

You can give your music purchased from Apple to anybody you want as well. It is just file. I really don't understand why people still insinuate that music comes with any DRM. It doesn't, and hasn't for years.

You can give the file to anyone you want and they can use it. But that doesn't mean you have transferred ownership (particularly because you can just download it again through the purchased section). There should be a way of transferring all the assets legally and officially from one account to another.

 

[tbrinkma]

So last week I bought a twenty song playlist from iTunes, and it was added to my new MBP and iPhone. All good until I tried to burn it to a disc so I could play it in my truck. Oops, the error message says that can't be done. WTF? So I can't even use my own purchased music???

Check the total length of the songs. It's entirely possible that a 20 song playlist won't fit on a 'normal' 64-minute CD (or even an 'extended length' 80-minute CD). It may be as simple as burning it to two discs. (Or, burning it as MP3s if your car stereo handles them.)

 

[Bezetos]

All the music on the iTunes Store is iTunes Plus now, and it's been that way for years. The only DRM-ed music is stuff that was purchased before that change.

Precisely, so everything you bought over ~3 years ago is still DRM protected - in some cases, that's a lot of songs.

However I appreciate the shift.

 

[tbrinkma]

You didn't purchase music, you just purchased DIGITAL rights to the music. Burning it to a disc would make that PHYSICAL, thus the error message. You own nothing, well, but a bunch of 0's and 1's.
/
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No. The music would still be digital on a CD. The CD isn't, but that's not the music, that's the medium.

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Precisely, so everything you bought over ~3 years ago is still DRM protected - in some cases, that's a lot of songs.

However I appreciate the shift.

And, you've had the opportunity since then to upgrade it to DRM-free tracks. And now you can do it in one big lump for less than $30. That's not bad, considering that you knew what you were buying back when it *was* mucked up with DRM, and you bought it anyway.

 

[ncaissie]

But you can use 5 devices on one account. Between iPhone, iPad, ML,..etc most people do have the 2 devices.

5 Devices on one account is not the same as more than one account on one device. They can't have his account and their own account linked to one ipod, ipad or iphone.
I have an ipad and I can’t log in with my wife’s account without removing everything I purchased. (It sucks because we spent $50+ on GPS software we can’t transfer to her iPad without giving her my account. ) It doesn’t work well with iMessage and stuff.

 

[Snowy_River]

If you purchased it, you should be able to - as the article originally said - leave it to your next of kin. I'm talking about using the CD in any way I want for private purposes.

And, in point of fact, you can leave them to your next of kin. Sure, the ToS are fuzzy on the question of transfer because the industry would like everyone to have to buy them over again. But it's never been tested in a court of law (to the best of my knowledge), and it's likely an area that wouldn't stand up. Really, the way it would be likely to be tested is if someone gave their library to a child and it was contested by the RIAA, or something like that. That's not likely to happen, for any number of reasons.

Have a look on ebay - many people are legally selling DVDs and CDs.
Are you saying that they are breaking the law??

Well, perhaps it would depend on who you ask. And even more so it would depend on the whole situation. I'd be willing to bet you that most CDs that are sold today are sold after they have been ripped, and the ripped songs are not deleted when the CD is sold. In that case, yes, they are breaking the law. There are probably those in the entertainment industry that would try to argue that the sale of the CD, ripped or not, is illegal, but they won't push it to court because they wouldn't be likely to win.

When VCRs first started coming out, the television industry tried very hard to get the technology blocked, arguing that consumers were violating the broadcast license terms. The courts denied their case, but it's a good example of how the industry sees terms of use and what's really enforceable.

The reality is that all we really need to concern ourselves with is what's enforceable. Not what's technically enforceable, as the technology is getting better all the time, but what's legally enforceable. I doubt that any court would uphold a challenge to having a music library passed on to one's progeny.

I'm sure the record industry would have loved to have the technology to make a vinyl album or a CD only play on one turntable or CD player. To suggest that's reasonable is insanity. So why should that be OK for digital media?

And here's where you're totally losing me. Digital songs don't play on only one device. I can play my iTunes songs on my computer, my iPod, my iPad, my dumb phone. If I copy them onto a USB stick, I can play them on my car stereo (also works to just plug in my iPod), my parents TV, and almost any other compatible device. So, again, just what is it that you're on about?

 

[manu chao]

I think you're being argumentative for the sake of argument.

It's simple. If you pay for something, you own it.

No - I cant play it (a CD) in a pub, but I can play it on any any device I have in my own privacy. I can play in in my lounge room, in my bedroom, in the bath, out in the shed. In the garage. I can even have a party and play it at loud volume. next you're going to tell me that people over next door better not listen because they'll (or I'll) be in violation of copyright.

And you can do all of the above with any music purchased from Apple or other online vendors.

Furthermore (with my CD) I can sell it on ebay. I can give it to my kid. I can give it to charity. I can leave it in my will. I can give to to Bruce Willis.

And how would you propose should selling a download on eBay work? Burn it on a CD and send the CD? Guess what, a lot of people could make a good living buying one download and selling as many copies of it as they want.

It is the same way with downloaded software, you cannot just sell downloaded software, the only thing you can actually sell is your license to use it which is linked to a serial number. Thus, if you wanted to able to sell downloads, each would need to come with 'license key', then you could sell that license key. Would you prefer that?

Sure, in principle a solution might be that you create such a license key on demand from within iTunes, then sell that key and once somebody else uses that key to download the song, you can no longer re-download it yourself. Of course, nobody would want the return of DRM (ie, deleting the song from your devices as soon as somebody else has activated the corresponding license key).

As you can see, making a downloaded song saleable either makes it incredibly easy for people to get their music for free (buy it and then sell it again but keep using it) or it re-introduces DRM we all don't like. Sure, it is already like this with CDs but the transaction costs of selling CDs are clearly higher than selling just a license key.

 

[ncaissie]

What a nonsense, you can have media from as many accounts as you want in your iTunes library or on your iPods, iPhones and iPads. I have stuff from two different accounts in my library and there are no problems whatsoever.

That's news to me. That may be true for music or media pirated but I don't believe it for apps and purchased movies and TV shows. If so that's awesome. I will try it tonight, I'll put my games on my wife’s itunes.

 

[GadgetDon]

That's news to me. That may be true for music or media pirated but I don't believe it for apps and purchased movies and TV shows. If so that's awesome. I will try it tonight, I'll put my games on my wife’s itunes.

It won't work with anything with DRM, which means, anything but music.

You may be able to get it to work on the computer, but definitely not devices.

 

[manu chao]

5 Devices on one account is not the same as more than one account on one device. They can't have his account and their own account linked to one ipod, ipad or iphone.

Of course you can. I have two accounts myself and have media (music, movies, apps, ebooks) from both accounts on my iPhone and iPad.

I have an ipad and I can’t log in with my wife’s account without removing everything I purchased.

What a nonsense. I just deleted one app from my iPhone purchased with account A, went to the store and downloaded it again. Then, I deleted another app, purchased from account B, logged into account B, and re-downloaded the app again. Nothing else was deleted during that process.

The only thing that is linked to a specific account is the (personal) stuff stored in the account's iCloud, eg, your address book data will only sync with one account.

 

[GadgetDon]

Of course you can. I have two accounts myself and have media (music, movies, apps, ebooks) from both accounts on my iPhone and iPad.


What a nonsense. I just deleted one app from my iPhone purchased with account A, went to the store and downloaded it again. Then, I deleted another app, purchased from account B, logged into account B, and re-downloaded the app again. Nothing else was deleted during that process.

The only thing that is linked to a specific account is the (personal) stuff stored in the account's iCloud, eg, your address book data will only sync with one account.

Interesting, not what I'd come to expect. Curious if it works with movies/tv shows.

 

[TheRainKing]

It is not about being able to afford or not.

Totally irrelevant. But thanks for your contribution.

He's rich so his daughters should have to re-buy all the music again huh?

How many countless threads have I seen on here about how people sharing iTunes accounts for music/apps - quite a few. Maybe they should also buy all their music and movies again for every person in the house.

Love the double standards.

That's not the point though is it..

It's not about being able to afford anything, it's all about making a point against Apple and their Big Boss antics.

I can't believe they're saying that whatever you BUY from the App store you never own but only licence it.

Fark me, I can go and buy any CD album out there and guess what... I ACTUALLY OWN IT, and I can give those CD's away to whoever I desire!!!

Apple are living in a dream world and their dictatorship regime seriously needs to end.

Like I keep saying, thank god for the JB community and at least there are legal people out there who also think that Apple cross too many lines!

Having thought about it properly, I agree with all of you and Bruce Willis.

 

[manu chao]

That's news to me. That may be true for music or media pirated but I don't believe it for apps and purchased movies and TV shows. If so that's awesome. I will try it tonight, I'll put my games on my wife’s itunes.

It 100% works with movies and apps. I have bought apps and movies from two different accounts and they happily co-exist on my iPad and iPhone. The only thing where things might get a bit iffy is with transferring rented movies, I have seen some strange things happening with rented movies but I could not nail it down to using separate accounts, it might have just general glitches of the rental system. And I rarely co-currently rent movies with different accounts.

It might be that you have to log, on the iPad, into the account which rented the movie, before transferring a rented one from a computer. But I never actually seen it not work without doing this, so this might be just some voodoo, that I am imagining to be necessary.

 

[nickharris1992]

I think even apple should know not to mess with Bruce Willis