Build a NAS from inexpensive components

[robbieduncan]

Hi! I'm not sure why nas4free is being censored, I'll ask an admin to take a look... (admin note: this has now been fixed)

I doubt you are going to achieve some of your goals with some of your constraints. In particular low power consumption and silence are unlikely when you are talking about using 6 or more HDDS...

 

[Cubytus]

I suspect you can get it running without a monitor, but it's easier with! I don't have a monitor (other than screen on iMac and MacBooks) but found a "friendly" retailer with a no-quibble returns policy who kindly lent me one for a few days

There's always that solution, even if it's not a durable one in in case software needs to be reinstalled later on. But I do get your point

FreeNAS does work better with more RAM, and you can put 16GB in the HP Microservers even though they say 8GB max. RAM is still relatively cheap, so you can max out for around £100. Not that it helps you, but HP have a £50 cash back offer in the UK at the minute (http://www.ebuyer.com/daily-deals?utm_source=b2c_monday1&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=b2c_monday1) so you could pick one up for £129

No help from any UK-based promotion. Besides, I don't get the point of talking about upgrades when the server itself is still a project. This particular model is available for $400. I think I can get the same performance for less money out of a combo. But what combo?

I'm certainly an amateur when it comes to this stuff, and ownCloud is working wonderfully for me. I've migrated everything from various cloud services (Dropbox, Skydrive, Google Drive) onto ownCloud with no problems at all. Still using iCloud for Mail, Cal and Contacts as that looked like a leap too far when it just works across all my iDevices

I wish I could do the same, but never got any significant help on OC forums. Maybe if you are using a non-encrypted, perfectly vanilla ownCloud setup, there are no visible problems.

I doubt you are going to achieve some of your goals with some of your constraints. In particular low power consumption and silence are unlikely when you are talking about using 6 or more HDDS...

Instead of saying this is impossible, why not suggest something that will get closer to these goals?

 

[robbieduncan]

Instead of saying this is impossible, why not suggest something that will get closer to these goals?

OK

Modern drives will use less power and create less noise per Gb as well as having higher transfer speeds due to greater data density. I would suggest buying 2 or 3 WD Red drives. With fewer drives you also have a better chance of sound proofing the case

 

[maflynn]

Instead of saying this is impossible, why not suggest something that will get closer to these goals?

I didn't take it he was stating it was impossible but rather recommending you perhaps adjust your expectations.

Anything is possible but at a cost, and you mentioned that budget is a major constraint.

I like one of there other recommendations of putting the NAS in another room, this is an excellent solution to your noise requirement.

You mentioned you don't want Synology but you hadn't gone into why a prebuilt NAS is not something you wish to invest in, care to elaborate or is it because of the cost (which you did mention regarding synology)?

I have a small Qnap NAS and it offers all of the services you listed (there then lots of bays) so I think that would be an excellent fit

 

[balamw]

When I was looking at this some time back, I ended up buying an HP MediaSmart EX490 Windows Home Server, because it was basically available at a slight premium over any of the 4 bay JBOD enclosures I was looking at. $499 instead of $350.

I populated it with 4 WD Green HDDs (forth reasons robbieduncan raises, power efficiency, capacity, noise) and it did its job well until it became incompatible with Time Machine. (Replaced for TM by a 2TB WD MyBook Live).

I also built a white box Windows 7 PC with no drives (Hackintosh compatible) for ~$300 with no major noise or performance considerations.

So, I simply don't see how you imagine finding a solution in the < $300 range that will perform significantly better than say buying a 3TB WD MyCloud. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236621 and even throw in an external 3TB HDD to back that up.

Personally, the question of what OS and software will power this thing is not separable form the hardware as you may get a nice piece of hardware and have it run poorly due to the software choices.

B

 

[Cubytus]

OK

Modern drives will use less power and create less noise per Gb as well as having higher transfer speeds due to greater data density. I would suggest buying 2 or 3 WD Red drives. With fewer drives you also have a better chance of sound proofing the case

This is considered in the future, and also the main reason I want a motherboard with 6Gbps SATA. Of course my first-generation SATA ones won't max it out, but again, I consider larger drives a future upgrade, when those 250GB, 500GB will be full. It's not the case at the moment, and not including them in this build will definitely cut costs. In any case, a base system is required before considering upgrades.

About the noise, I thought about aggressive power management of the drives, but I guess this is more a software issue than a hardware one.

I didn't take it he was stating it was impossible but rather recommending you perhaps adjust your expectations.

I did expect to adjust them, but which ones? Noise makes one.

I like one of there other recommendations of putting the NAS in another room, this is an excellent solution to your noise requirement.

Yes and no. Yes, because I remember having had an older UPS with a very noisy fan that ended up in a closet. However, I could still hear it (no temp-adjusted fan), and dust accumulating in it because of the confined environment is likely to be a major drawback. And no, because there is simply no other room, and I doubt the kitchen would be a good environment for a server. Also, there is no soundproofing in 50's era constructions.

You mentioned you don't want Synology but you hadn't gone into why a prebuilt NAS is not something you wish to invest in, care to elaborate or is it because of the cost (which you did mention regarding synology)?

Exactly. Cost is the only factor for not wanting a prebuilt NAS, and additionally, it may not be able to accept unassorted drives.

I have a small Qnap NAS and it offers all of the services you listed (there then lots of bays) so I think that would be an excellent fit

What model is this?

When I was looking at this some time back, I ended up buying an HP MediaSmart EX490 Windows Home Server, because it was basically available at a slight premium over any of the 4 bay JBOD enclosures I was looking at. $499 instead of $350.

$150 on top of $350 is not what I consider a slight premium. And I don't want to pay the Windows Tax.

I populated it with 4 WD Green HDDs (forth reasons robbieduncan raises, power efficiency, capacity, noise) and it did its job well until it became incompatible with Time Machine. (Replaced for TM by a 2TB WD MyBook Live).

This is unclear for me. Why would those excellent drives be incompatible with Time Machine? Did you use Windows as your NAS OS?

I also built a white box Windows 7 PC with no drives (Hackintosh compatible) for ~$300 with no major noise or performance considerations.

From this experience with a machine that probably had higher performance requirements than my projected NAS has, I assume this wouldn't be a big deal to build a similarly-priced NAS. Please detail. I do consider Mac OS X as an excellent OS that would give everything needed without complicated configuration. However, I am wary of running it on a non-Apple machine, rolling dice with each update.

Personally, the question of what OS and software will power this thing is not separable form the hardware as you may get a nice piece of hardware and have it run poorly due to the software choices.

Right. I do consider NAS4Free, openMediaVault, or Zentyal. Only I can't really know how they would perform until the machine is built.

 

[balamw]

From this experience with a machine that probably had higher performance requirements than my projected NAS has, I assume this wouldn't be a big deal to build a similarly-priced NAS. Please detail.

Actually, performance was not a driver. I aimed for about the cheapest box I could build to be able to run Snow Leopard, Windows and Ubuntu on.

Here's how I planned that box in ~late 2009. I went to look at the socket 775 Gigabit motherboards supported by Kakewalk. I got the cheapest one that would support 4GB of RAM and had integrated video.

I got a cheap case with included power supply. Not quiet, not small.

• Case/PS $60
• GIGABYTE GA-G41M-ES2L $60
• Intel Pentium Dual-Core E5400 $75
• RAM 2x2GB $80
• Arctic Silver $15

The E5400 was specced because it could be used to upgrade in the EX490 with the stock fan, unlike a higher power Core 2 Duo or Quad.

I also bought a cheap blu ray drive (reader only) and a floppy drive since part of my goal for the machine was archiving older media as ISO or floppy images to the NAS.

Later, it became apparent that the video performance of the Intel integrated video sucked, so I added a $60 passively cooled Nvidia 9500 video card to improve performance.

Performance wise, at this point it's only about as fast as my 2008 MacBook Unibody. Useable, but my MBAs run circles around them. (The MB has 8GB of RAM now).

Note that the case and motherboard will only handle 4 SATA devices. Unlike the EX490 tools and adapters are required to add or remove drives. Any adapters/cables etc... cost extra.

The EX490 is an awesome little box for that kind of use, but it's really underpowered to get the performance you really want. I wish I had spent the extra $ for the EX 495.

Side note. The problem with the EX490 and Time Machine was a software issue. Lion broke HP's connector and by that point Microsoft had abandoned WHS altogether. I've considered running some version of Linux on it, but have never had the time to implement it.

So I got the MyBook Live, which has been far less finicky for half the cost of the PC or the EX490.

B

 

[Cubytus]

In my case, performance needs to be only one one front: LAN transmission of files. Video performance is unimportant as it is likely to run a console OS. CPU may be more solicited than I think because of full-disk encryption, h264 video compression of low-resolution recordings (a Core2Duo can do that without breaking a sweat), and probably there won't be any Intel network chip at first.

Although I don't qualify BluRay as "old media" and already have gotten rid of any remaining diskettes, the MyBook Live can't sustain the speed required, and doesn't have any encryption. It seems rather complicated to turn it on, from what I could read. This particular MyBook Live I have will serve as an offsite SFTP server for surveillance purposes, and while its lack of speed is a problem on the LAN, it has plenty enough for Internet. It doesn't count in my setup since it won't reside at home.

But thanks for the insight.

 

[balamw]

Sounds like you will be taxing the CPU and drives more than you think.

Hardware assisted H.264 encoding and encryption support with a dedicated GPU (even though no monitor will be attached) sounds like it could be useful.

Another reason you may stress the CPU unnecessarily is the software RAID of small/slow drives. There's a reason they make specific AV drives for PVR and surveillance applications.

You might consider picking up some used server grade hardware someone is getting rid of instead of DIY on the cheap.

JMO,

B

 

[robbieduncan]

Is your LAN up to the task? Are you running a decent gigabit switch? Are the end nodes gigabit? My NAS (Synology RS812+) is connected via two gigabit links to my switch with link aggregation to get good performance...

 

[Cubytus]

Hardware assisted H.264 encoding and encryption support with a dedicated GPU (even though no monitor will be attached) sounds like it could be useful.

Really? While a lowly Raspberry Pi can do this job without breaking a sweat? I have a hard time getting your comment here.

You might consider picking up some used server grade hardware someone is getting rid of instead of DIY on the cheap.

I'm not out on a chase for some impossible to find used components. This is a home system that can be used for home-based tasks with reasonable performance.

Is your LAN up to the task? Are you running a decent gigabit switch? Are the end nodes gigabit? My NAS (Synology RS812+) is connected via two gigabit links to my switch with link aggregation to get good performance...

It's a 5 ports gigabit, and while 5 ports doesn't allow for link aggregation since all are required by a different device, I'll put that on the "todo" list.

So, what about the NAS skeleton?

 

[robbieduncan]

I'm not out on a chase for some impossible to find used components. This is a home system that can be used for home-based tasks with reasonable performance.

Everything ends up on eBay eventually. I thought I'd never get one of these without paying full RRP online as they are pretty unusual but I got one on eBay for about 50% after a few months of monitoring it.

 

[Cubytus]

Everything ends up on eBay eventually. I thought I'd never get one of these without paying full RRP online as they are pretty unusual but I got one on eBay for about 50% after a few months of monitoring it.

Oh, that looks nice. However I don't find it very useful at the moment, and anyway, MBPs cannot go any faster than Gigabit. It's unlikely that two machines will require full gigabit speed to the NAS.

But we are still talking about options. What skeleton should be built to put all hard drives online? I am unsure *any* MoBo/CPU/RAM combo would do an equal job.

 

[bristolgadget]

Maybe i'm missing something here but can't you try and find a low cost/Ebay Mid 2011 or Late 2012 preferably Mac Mini.

Nearly everything you ask for would be achieved with a lot more compatibility and flexibility of solution.

 

[Cubytus]

Maybe i'm missing something here but can't you try and find a low cost/Ebay Mid 2011 or Late 2012 preferably Mac Mini.

Nearly everything you ask for would be achieved with a lot more compatibility and flexibility of solution.

but how would I add the missing SATA ports? And actually enclose the drives? Remember there won't be any monitor to start configuration, or even start Vnc-style remote control.

 

[bigcat]

I've been using OpenMediaVault (for about two years now I believe) and it has been completely stable and fast for me. I have it configured in RAID5. Couple of months ago it reported one of my drives failed, and I was able to replace it with another drive without losing any data. I tested the drive in another system and it had indeed failed.

I haven't upgraded to their latest software version because some of the plugins I use have not been updated yet (last time I checked).

A lot of the functionality is provided via plugins. I've used the DNLA, VPN, Torrent, AppleFS/TimeMachine, and others successfully. All our laptops are MBPs and they all time machine to OMV.

I believe this is developed by the original FreeNAS developer.

 

[Cubytus]

That's good for the software, but my question is about hardware first. This installation cannot be virtualized prior to building, unfortunately, at least without buying external components.

 

[paulrbeers]

That's why I expect to use RAID0 on those ones
.

This whole thread lost me at this.... Talking about a NAS and going RAID0.... What?!?!

 

[Cubytus]

What's the big deal?

Performance goes first for this application. The drives linked in RAID0 won't be used for mission-critical data, and the backup drive that will also be hosted in the NAS will be regularly tested for bad sectors and other SMART data. If it fails, it will be replaced. Granted, there's a small possibility that I link that one with another, identical unit in RAID1 in case of failure to stay protected while the failed one is being replaced (which won't be the case without RAID1). If I can finally get a remote backup software that actually works, I guess my backup chain would be solid enough.

 

[balamw]

Really? While a lowly Raspberry Pi can do this job without breaking a sweat? I have a hard time getting your comment here.

I love my RasPi, but mine seems to be far more sweat prone than yours. To the extent that it doesn't have a regular role in my computing arsenal.

The point is that you have a laundry list of features that on their own may not be particularly taxing, but put together make this a bit trickier, particularly for the budget you've set for yourself.

e.g. $500 will buy you a much better compromise than $300 will and it will scale to handle any additional tasks you may want to throw at it.

That said. You can pick up this HP Microserver for $250 after rebate and this 4 bay JBOD enclosure for $50 after rebate.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16859107921
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816111177

There's your $300 budget with bays for 8 drives.

Your turn to say why that would not work for you or how you could do better.

B

 

[Cubytus]

I never said it wouldn't work. I am just very wary of manufacturers known to use non-standard components in their machine that would preclude upgradeability down the road or replacing failed parts. That includes the eSATa port multiplier. If there's one component that really doesn't have any guaranteed compatibility, this is one. Some mobos support it, some others don't, and it is almost never listed on manufacturer's specs. And only 150W power supply on a machine that will run many HDDs seems a bit on the low side. What's the SATA speed? With such a low limit as 8GB RAM, I doubt it boasting SATA 6Gbps. Strange that every spec is listed but SATA port speed.

I don't call that a "laundry list", which is derogatory, but a "requirements" list. Nothing unusual in having requirements to be met. I am actually *asking* how this same amount could be employed for a more standard and powerful machine, not saying I can do better. True that this HP seems to meet silence requirements. I also feel uncomfortable seeing there is no other choice on Newegg for low-cost servers, aside from crappy Atom.

I don't have a Pi. They're hard to find, and the only use I found for it in theory is a "smart" video camera, and apparently no one has made an image that would start a SSH server first, so it absolutely needs a monitor and wired keyboard and mouse to configure it. But at least I know it is reputed to support hardware h264 compression.

 

[bristolgadget]

but how would I add the missing SATA ports? And actually enclose the drives? Remember there won't be any monitor to start configuration, or even start Vnc-style remote control.

Do you need to connect them via sata? Stick some of the drives in usb 3.0 cheapo enclosures and plug them in the back of the mini. use the firewire 800 one as well, software raid 'em in disk utility and encrypt them.

If you are considering using a striped raid 0, be careful when using drives of different speeds/manufacturers. You may have to set it to concatenated so only one drive at a time is written to, this will make the volume more stable.

configure the mini before hand for the the main setup.allow remote management or remote login if you want it.

setup any programs and create some scripts/executables that will start/run/configure the programs you want .

go to users, set the login options for your login to auto login, then set the login items and select the programs/script you have creates.

Connect and configure your UPS and connect via USB (i assume it has).

you should then be able to 'wake on access' the mac mini, it powers up, auto logs in, starts a few programs/scripts, runs the programs you want , operates as Time Machine server with a proper GIG port, run a mail server if you need it, operate a torrent client, connect to the mini via VNC/remote desktop/SFTP.

If it detects a ups notification, it can shut everything down gracefully and then wait for the wake on lan call to start again.

am i still missing something ?

 

[Cubytus]

Do you need to connect them via sata? Stick some of the drives in usb 3.0 cheapo enclosures

Is that a trolling attempt? Because I won't fall in such a crude trap. Two words for the NAS: reliable and speedy.

If you are considering using a striped raid 0, be careful when using drives of different speeds/manufacturers. You may have to set it to concatenated so only one drive at a time is written to, this will make the volume more stable.

I'll take that into account, even as these drives I want to link are identical.

configure the mini before hand for the the main setup.allow remote management or remote login if you want it.

I don't think you got what I wrote: I said "no monitor". I didn't say that I will soon part with a monitor I own. There is no monitor, no intention to buy anything that resembles ones. So there is no way to configure it if it is not already. Maybe a server edition Mac Mini would do that out of the box, but it surely doesn't come cheap, even used.

am i still missing something ?

That I don't know at all how to write a script on a Mac? Why would I have scripts anyway when I can setup programs properly over a remote connection?

That there are only two SATA ports inside a Mac Mini AFAIK? Not even SATA 6Gbps, at least so I expect on used models?
That they will leave HDDs naked?

As much as I do love the Mac, the Mini is not adapted at all for this application.

 

[bristolgadget]

Is that a trolling attempt? Because I won't fall in such a crude trap. Two words for the NAS: reliable and speedy.

i'm not a troll, just a macrumours newbie. Reliable, speedy and cost effective is very very rare in the NAS / Storage area.

I don't think you got what I wrote: I said "no monitor".

so what are you writing this on at the moment ? laptop/tablet/phone only ?

That I don't know at all how to write a script on a Mac? Why would I have scripts anyway when I can setup programs properly over a remote connection?

how do you start these programs when you have a failure and a restart ? startup scripting should be necessary on any system...

That there are only two SATA ports inside a Mac Mini AFAIK? Not even SATA 6Gbps, at least so I expect on used models?

yes there are only 2 but you could break one of the sata ports out and attach it to a port multiplier.

That they will leave HDDs naked?

yeah unless you get an enclosure for your drives but that would break on of your requirements.

As much as I do love the Mac, the Mini is not adapted at all for this application.

probably not.

it sounds like you want a little 6 stack NAS that runs a full blown version of linux or equivalent but the issue you have there is 6 drives stacked on on another in an enclosure will get HOT so will need a fan, noisy or otherwise. there not much you can do about that one. something has to give. my suggesting the separate encloses for the drives and connecting via USB 3.0 would allow them to be separated and make the fan unnecessary.

no problem though, good luck with it.

 

[Cubytus]

i'm not a troll, just a macrumours newbie. Reliable, speedy and cost effective is very very rare in the NAS / Storage area.

It's one major requirement stated in the first post: the NAS must be able to saturate gigabit port while using full disk encryption.

so what are you writing this on at the moment ? laptop/tablet/phone only ?

Laptop / tablet, depending where I am.

how do you start these programs when you have a failure and a restart ? startup scripting should be necessary on any system...

Huh, in automatically launched items at startup? Although I do have issues with that function, the firewall never seems to recall I already allowed a particular program to receive network connections.

yes there are only 2 but you could break one of the sata ports out and attach it to a port multiplier.

A port multiplier is among the least supported hardware pieces on any platform. How would I know if OS X is designed to support such a hack? Still no 6Gbps speed, so the point is pretty much nil without these info.

yeah unless you get an enclosure for your drives but that would break on of your requirements.

Enclosures are not bad by themselves, and in fact pretty good eSATA enclosure seem to exist, but adding 5 of these to the NAS will raise the price point again. Averaging $25, it would be $125 for, basically, cases. Could be solved putting the Mini in some generic PC cases with enough room for the drives, but the port multiplier appears a very risky option.

probably not.

it sounds like you want a little 6 stack NAS that runs a full blown version of linux or equivalent but the issue you have there is 6 drives stacked on on another in an enclosure will get HOT so will need a fan, noisy or otherwise. there not much you can do about that one. something has to give. my suggesting the separate encloses for the drives and connecting via USB 3.0 would allow them to be separated and make the fan unnecessary.

no problem though, good luck with it.

It would run a NAS-specialized distro, or maybe a full-blown one if I can't have all necessary features from a NAS OS.

USB is out of question unless absolutely necessary. Its performance is notoriously bad, it doesn't support SMART data transmission, adds enormous overheads on file access (I can't imagine what will be achieved with encryption), probably doesn't support RAID0 linking, and USB 3.0 probably isn't present at all on used Mac Minis.

Even if I could hypothetically find a $300 Mac Mini preconfigured for headless use, I would have to spit $125 more for enclosures and trade a 3 and 6Gbps link on these drives for 0.48Gbps. Quiet machine, but nowhere near performant.