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That would be Sir Dumbass.

And consider that the core audience for the 21.5 are consumers who barely do more that online shop and read email and the 'necessity' of user upgradeable ram diminishes

Then why sell them an iMac at all? The iPad is perfect for them. Even the 21" is way too much machine for someone who just wants a computer to check their email.

But for people who could actually use the iMac, not being able to upgrade the ram is a bit of a buzzkill.

...by the way, you can upgrade it on the 27", right?
 
It'll stop when Apple releases a normal desktop where people can install any HD, SSD or RAM. While PC owners have thousands of options, Mac users have half a dozen and they all are severely overpriced.

Nope. Cause the folks will be whining about this or that isn't supported, doesn't work as well, how Apple won't service that part etc
 
But, thin wins with Apple.

Thin seems to win with consumers.

Apple release a product that's thin and shiny - it sells out.

Then they release the next one that's thinner and shinier - it sells out quicker.

Consumers are telling Apple they want things that are thin, so Apple are following.
 
I'm sure someone else has posted a similar opinion, but I wish they had gotten rid of the chin, rather than going thin.

Maybe there was a technical reason they couldn't do that, but I think overall it would have been a cooler design. Sitting in front of the thing, you'd never notice the thickness, but you can sure see the chin.
 
Don't be silly, there's no bottleneck. Modern 5400 HDDs have almost no difference from 7200s in terms of speed. Trust me.

True story.

There is a HDD bottleneck in general, but it tends to hit at around the same speed for most descent drives regardless of RPM value these days, not to mention the fact that there are countless other factors to consider that have as much or more of an affect on overall perceived drive speed.

The bottom line any way you swing it is that any HDD is going to be just plain slow compared to SSD. Since moving to SSD for my system drive, I've found that it's just not worth my time to nitpick HDDs; they're all slow. The 5400 RPM thing would've bothered me a few years ago, but at this point, it means nothing. In the end, it'll still probably average 80 MB/s read/write for most tasks, just like most descent 7200 RPM drives, even if they hit 110-120 MB/s on a speed test.

That said, I'm still somewhat surprised that Fusion drives aren't a standard component at this point. I expected something like the Fusion Drive from this generation, but I expected the bottom-end stock 21.5" to retain the 500 GB HDD and add a 128 GB SSD for the system and apps. Given that prices of SSDs have come down so much and that they offer such an obvious performance increase, it seemed like a reasonable option given that these machines start at $1299, especially considering the optical drive was dropped.

That an SSD-based disk option is not even offered as an upgrade in the base model is unfortunate. It's not surprising, but I was hoping they'd come out swinging with the SSDs this time around. That you can't get an SSD-only configuration without shelling out $1300 extra on a 27" model is downright absurd. Pricing grievances alone are one thing, but the lack of basic SSD options in general is just bizarre to me in general.

I love a lot of things about this iMac upgrade and overall it does look great from a design and likely performance perspective, but the more I learn, the more frustrating it becomes in some ways. It seems like Apple could still turn a very significant profit while offering configurations that would make more people happy as opposed to frustrated. To paint it broadly, it just feels like Apple is ignoring the seemingly quite-populated middle section of the market, and in essence then, annoying a lot of the users who are the types that are still interested in premium desktops. Plenty of people will be more than fine with the base 21.5" model, and that's fine. But a lot of other people need a bit more power or speed in certain areas without the need (let alone budget) to go "ALL IN" one might say.

And truly, I don't think I'm talking crazy here. To be clear, I just think it's a little nuts that in 2012, almost 2013, I can't upgrade to say a 256 GB SSD for $250-300. Most would say that's still overpriced, but that's my whole point. What's nuts to me isn't the price so much as just the utter and complete lack of middle-ground options.
 
Not all pros are doing high end graphics or video.

Then get a mini or air with a screen made by a decent manufacturer (not LG). Or no screen, if you are not doing work that requires a big screen.

Not sure what market the iMac is aimed at. That's all. The mini and an external screen is best value, iMac is ridiculously over priced. Unreal.



.
 
:eek:

Damn those prices are insane!! I really hope its not to hard to change the ram in the 21.5 model yourself.
 
I want the 3.4GHz i7, the 3TB Fusion Drive, the 768GB of Flash, and 32GB of RAM.

Oh yeah, and the nifty graphics card too.

Damn, I know it's going to be expensive.
 
True story.

There is a HDD bottleneck in general, but it tends to hit at around the same speed for most descent drives regardless of RPM value these days, not to mention the fact that there are countless other factors to consider that have as much or more of an affect on overall perceived drive speed.

The bottom line any way you swing it is that any HDD is going to be just plain slow compared to SSD. Since moving to SSD for my system drive, I've found that it's just not worth my time to nitpick HDDs; they're all slow. The 5400 RPM thing would've bothered me a few years ago, but at this point, it means nothing. In the end, it'll still probably average 80 MB/s read/write for most tasks, just like most descent 7200 RPM drives, even if they hit 110-120 MB/s on a speed test.

That said, I'm still somewhat surprised that Fusion drives aren't a standard component at this point. I expected something like the Fusion Drive from this generation, but I expected the bottom-end stock 21.5" to retain the 500 GB HDD and add a 128 GB SSD for the system and apps. Given that prices of SSDs have come down so much and that they offer such an obvious performance increase, it seemed like a reasonable option given that these machines start at $1299, especially considering the optical drive was dropped.

That an SSD-based disk option is not even offered as an upgrade in the base model is unfortunate. It's not surprising, but I was hoping they'd come out swinging with the SSDs this time around. That you can't get an SSD-only configuration without shelling out $1300 extra on a 27" model is downright absurd. Pricing grievances alone are one thing, but the lack of basic SSD options in general is just bizarre to me in general.

I love a lot of things about this iMac upgrade and overall it does look great from a design and likely performance perspective, but the more I learn, the more frustrating it becomes in some ways. It seems like Apple could still turn a very significant profit while offering configurations that would make more people happy as opposed to frustrated. To paint it broadly, it just feels like Apple is ignoring the seemingly quite-populated middle section of the market, and in essence then, annoying a lot of the users who are the types that are still interested in premium desktops. Plenty of people will be more than fine with the base 21.5" model, and that's fine. But a lot of other people need a bit more power or speed in certain areas without the need (let alone budget) to go "ALL IN" one might say.

And truly, I don't think I'm talking crazy here. To be clear, I just think it's a little nuts that in 2012, almost 2013, I can't upgrade to say a 256 GB SSD for $250-300. Most would say that's still overpriced, but that's my whole point. What's nuts to me isn't the price so much as just the utter and complete lack of middle-ground options.

I totally agree with you, man! The 5400 itself is not the bottleneck at all. No Fusion Drive in standard configurations is the true bottleneck and dissapointment. Indeed, I also expected something like that as the standard equipment. That and the lack of vRAM are the only things to complain about in new iMacs. Other than that, they are amazing. We'll see if Apple will offer more SSD options across the line in future, as they did with the rMBP line-up this summer.

----------

I want the 3.4GHz i7, the 3TB Fusion Drive, the 768GB of Flash, and 32GB of RAM.

Oh yeah, and the nifty graphics card too.

Damn, I know it's going to be expensive.

No way you'll be able to get 3TB FD AND 768Gb in one package. And you don't actually need to. However, it's physically possible to have 768Gb SSD and 3TB HDD. But to achieve that, you'll have to DIY install HDD/SSD into it.
 
$1,300 for a 768GB SSD?????? :confused::eek::confused::eek::confused::eek:

Really Apple?? C'mon now...that's just greedy...At least offer a 256GB SSD as an option, then I would have definitely bought it with the SSD built right in. Now it's either 1TB Fusion drive or holding off to see if MacSales can swap out the drive for a 240GB SSD for $295.
 
$1,300 for a 768GB SSD?????? :confused::eek::confused::eek::confused::eek:

Really Apple?? C'mon now...that's just greedy...At least offer a 256GB SSD as an option, then I would have definitely bought it with the SSD built right in. Now it's either 1TB Fusion drive or holding off to see if MacSales can swap out the drive for a 240GB SSD for $295.


lol.....

Thats allot of $$$
 
$1,300 for a 768GB SSD?????? :confused::eek::confused::eek::confused::eek:

Really Apple?? C'mon now...that's just greedy...At least offer a 256GB SSD as an option, then I would have definitely bought it with the SSD built right in. Now it's either 1TB Fusion drive or holding off to see if MacSales can swap out the drive for a 240GB SSD for $295.

I'm not surprised about SSD pricing, since every 256GB of flash storage Apple sells in macbooks costs 500$. But the lack of 256/512GB SSD options is sad. Hopefully they'll end up with offering these options in future ;)
 
Dear My Most Beautiful and Wonderful Wife,

You are the best thing that has ever happened to me.

Love,

Your Dedicated Husband

P.S. I'm about to spend $2,877 plus tax on a new iMac, but I only spent about $900 on you for Christmas...

Hmmm.. I would try that tactic as well but I played that card already .
I emailed her telling her I was going to buy a 68 Firebird. She thought I was joking and replied "go ahead". It showed up at our house two weeks later..
she was only mad for awhile :D
 
Thin seems to win with consumers.

Apple release a product that's thin and shiny - it sells out.

Then they release the next one that's thinner and shinier - it sells out quicker.

Consumers are telling Apple they want things that are thin, so Apple are following.

I do think it's more than a little different with desktops and mobile devices. I get plenty of benefit as a user from a thinner phone that I keep in my pocket or a thinner and lighter iPad and laptop which I might carry in a bag every day to and from work, school, etc.

But an iMac sits on a desk, and even if it was a little thicker than the current model, it'd still look incredibly impressive. When using the thing, I really get no benefit from a thinner iMac, and again, iMacs are not things that one packs away and carries around far more often than not. While it's very "cool" that the iMacs look the way they do, it's so far from important that they be that thin that it's almost ridiculous that they are, especially considering that it's only thin on the edges. I generally see a lot of positive points to Apple's product decisions while many others see negatives, but with this new iMac, this rush to be thin feels backwards and misguided. It's one of the first recent Apple products that absolutely feels like form over function as opposed to the usual form balanced with function.
 
I do think it's more than a little different with desktops and mobile devices. I get plenty of benefit as a user from a thinner phone that I keep in my pocket or a thinner and lighter iPad and laptop which I might carry in a bag every day to and from work, school, etc.

But an iMac sits on a desk, and even if it was a little thicker than the current model, it'd still look incredibly impressive. When using the thing, I really get no benefit from a thinner iMac, and again, iMacs are not things that one packs away and carries around far more often than not. While it's very "cool" that the iMacs look the way they do, it's so far from important that they be that thin that it's almost ridiculous that they are, especially considering that it's only thin on the edges. I generally see a lot of positive points to Apple's product decisions while many others see negatives, but with this new iMac, this rush to be thin feels backwards and misguided. It's one of the first recent Apple products that absolutely feels like form over function as opposed to the usual form balanced with function.

The new iMac doesn't function well? :confused:
 
+The screen comes calibrated
+Silent design (hopefully)
+Clean all-in-one solution
+Fast (if upgraded...)

-Upgrades are expensive
-The screen is glossy
-Need the Fusion Drive to offer decent performance (SSD being the norm for me)
-No HDMI port (to connect to the TV)

That's a nice machine and I am confident it will suit many many people, but for the same amount I would rather pay for a stand alone monitor and build a computer on my own.
Should the unit come with Fusion and offer better GPU as a base configuration, I would be a great deal. Spending 2500$ to make it run as I would like it is simply too much to ask.

That's a shame, I would have loved one of those.
 
You're gonna love Windows 8.

Just kidding. No you aren't. :)



Lilo777 has zero interest in Macs. Agitating Mac users is his thing.

I wouldn't use Windows 8 bro.

----------

+The screen comes calibrated
+Silent design (hopefully)
+Clean all-in-one solution
+Fast (if upgraded...)

-Upgrades are expensive
-The screen is glossy
-Need the Fusion Drive to offer decent performance (SSD being the norm for me)
-No HDMI port (to connect to the TV)

That's a nice machine and I am confident it will suit many many people, but for the same amount I would rather pay for a stand alone monitor and build a computer on my own.
Should the unit come with Fusion and offer better GPU as a base configuration, I would be a great deal. Spending 2500$ to make it run as I would like it is simply too much to ask.

That's a shame, I would have loved one of those.

I am thinking exactly the same as you are. Though the glossy doesn't bother me, I actually prefer it
 
True story.

There is a HDD bottleneck in general, but it tends to hit at around the same speed for most descent drives regardless of RPM value these days, not to mention the fact that there are countless other factors to consider that have as much or more of an affect on overall perceived drive speed.

The bottom line any way you swing it is that any HDD is going to be just plain slow compared to SSD. Since moving to SSD for my system drive, I've found that it's just not worth my time to nitpick HDDs; they're all slow. The 5400 RPM thing would've bothered me a few years ago, but at this point, it means nothing. In the end, it'll still probably average 80 MB/s read/write for most tasks, just like most descent 7200 RPM drives, even if they hit 110-120 MB/s on a speed test.

That said, I'm still somewhat surprised that Fusion drives aren't a standard component at this point. I expected something like the Fusion Drive from this generation, but I expected the bottom-end stock 21.5" to retain the 500 GB HDD and add a 128 GB SSD for the system and apps. Given that prices of SSDs have come down so much and that they offer such an obvious performance increase, it seemed like a reasonable option given that these machines start at $1299, especially considering the optical drive was dropped.

That an SSD-based disk option is not even offered as an upgrade in the base model is unfortunate. It's not surprising, but I was hoping they'd come out swinging with the SSDs this time around. That you can't get an SSD-only configuration without shelling out $1300 extra on a 27" model is downright absurd. Pricing grievances alone are one thing, but the lack of basic SSD options in general is just bizarre to me in general.

I love a lot of things about this iMac upgrade and overall it does look great from a design and likely performance perspective, but the more I learn, the more frustrating it becomes in some ways. It seems like Apple could still turn a very significant profit while offering configurations that would make more people happy as opposed to frustrated. To paint it broadly, it just feels like Apple is ignoring the seemingly quite-populated middle section of the market, and in essence then, annoying a lot of the users who are the types that are still interested in premium desktops. Plenty of people will be more than fine with the base 21.5" model, and that's fine. But a lot of other people need a bit more power or speed in certain areas without the need (let alone budget) to go "ALL IN" one might say.

And truly, I don't think I'm talking crazy here. To be clear, I just think it's a little nuts that in 2012, almost 2013, I can't upgrade to say a 256 GB SSD for $250-300. Most would say that's still overpriced, but that's my whole point. What's nuts to me isn't the price so much as just the utter and complete lack of middle-ground options.

I wish that I knew more about this, because I keep wondering if I can run photoshop cs6 efficiently (for painting, layer work but no photo or vid or RAW) on the base model 5400rpmwith 16gb ram. This is all that I would use the machine for, but feel pressured to purchase the Fusion drive.
And I know the Fusion would make sense, but I guess I'm feeling stubborn:D
 
Totally different technology. Intel is a caching solution, Apple’s is a tiering solution, something you don’t typically find outside of enterprise level solutions.

Actually, the Intel technology is the more efficient and better solution IMO. Here's my understanding of the two technologies:

Intel's Smart Response cache works at the firmware level and caches data at the block layer on the SSD. Frequently used blocks are mirrored on the SSD.

Apple's technology works at the OS level, and the end drive is the total size of both drives added together. The OS decides what files are being accessed most frequently and moves them over to the SSD as appropriate. You have the benefit of having the extra 128 GB of space available to you at the expense of $250.

When you consider the end result, everything in a computer ends up getting stored in blocks on a secondary storage device like a HDD or SSD. When a CPU needs to request data, it first looks to RAM for the data, and then if the data isn't in RAM, the computer must fetch it from the secondary storage. If the block is a frequently accessed block (or in a file that is frequently accessed), then it is going to fetch it from the SSD in both scenarios.

Apple's solution is actually less efficient because it will store an entire logical file on the SSD, even if only parts of the file are what is accessed frequently.
 
I want the 3.4GHz i7, the 3TB Fusion Drive, the 768GB of Flash, and 32GB of RAM.

Oh yeah, and the nifty graphics card too.

Damn, I know it's going to be expensive.

The fusion drive uses the space dedicated for the flash module. You either get the 128GB SSD+3 TB HDD, or the 768 GB flash module.
 
The new iMac doesn't function well? :confused:

No, no, hardly what I meant. As said before, I'm sure any configuration will be pretty great in a lot of ways. All I meant here was that this push to be as thin as possible, especially just on the edges, seems to me to be based around a design that is more focused on the form than the function. I'm definitely not suggesting that it won't still function quite well. I am just of the mind that I'd rather retain the current form factor and get more functionality out of it. I'm sure the push to be thinner is a significant cost to the manufacturing process, and it ultimately yields little to no real world benefit. I'd much rather see a stock 128 GB SSD drive across the line, no optical drive and the same form factor as the last generation. That to me is form balanced with function. It's still an absolutely stunning, brilliant and beautiful design, and it'd be all the more functional with SSD (and user-replaceable RAM for the 21.5").

Adding cost to the iMac just to make it thin on the edges just seems like a huge waste. Again, it really serves no purpose. It's not even as important as say an LED TV that got thinner so it sticks out less on a wall. This thing is still going to sit on a desk on it's stand and the user is going to be positioned in a way that the thinness is simply not noticeable.

So again, what's the point?
 
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