Business case for keeping a Mac [HELP!]

Discussion in 'Design and Graphics' started by advancedOption, Feb 1, 2009.

  1. advancedOption macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2009
    #1
    We have a new CIO at work... :mad: So it's my turn to jump through the hoops to try and keep my mac.

    I design web sites and graphics/diagrams for the web.

    It's hard for me to articulate why I prefer designing on a Mac (I used to use a PC for freelancing for years).

    To me the main problem (and the one I can articulate in a business case) of moving from OSX to XP is actually productivity. Between Spaces, Expose, Finder, spotlight, automator, and being able to do testing in both platforms, I estimate I'm 30-40% quicker on an Mac than a PC. To me, that's reason enough to keep the mac. But the CIO is determined that they have to go. So I want to beef up the business case.

    Designers have always talked about font rendering and colour accuracy, but those mostly apply to print. There are implications for web-design, but they're far less documented.

    I could mention Coda and TextMate (both OS X only) but there are essentially equivelant apps on PC that he will bring up (and he won't care that they're inferior).

    I don't think he cares about money either, as the mac pro isn't cheap, and wasting licenses for Creative Suite and other apps don't seem to worry him.

    Has anyone had to go through this process before? Has anyone got any tips, advice, or points for the business case?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    I went through this process at my last job, and lost... I don't want to loose my mac again :(
     
  2. kornyboy macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Location:
    Knoxville, TN (USA)
    #2
    Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

    I would just mention all of the things that you just described and hope for the best. In my experience, people that are bent on using PCs are not very easy to reason with on why you use a Mac. Many times it boils down to people that have never even touch a Mac in their life so they don't know anything else but that's a different soap box for a different day. Good luck.
     
  3. aluminumapple macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2009
    #3
    what kornyboy said is very true, you can't reason with someone who has used pc in their whole life, and has not touched a mac once. i suggest you trying to let your boss use the mac at least for a few minutes or show him what the benefits are and how it benefits you to work better within using a mac. You most likely will need to show him your point of view that is the only thing i could say.

    by the way if his Really bent on not having a mac, show him the bootcamp feature. you might have to use Xp but hey not on a Pc right mate?
     
  4. chameleon81 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    May 16, 2006
    #4
    What is his counter argument? Why does he try to change the way YOU work?

    I would understand if he changes the whole system in the company but from what you have written it seems he only wants to change your system. ( which does not make sense for me )
     
  5. tominated macrumors 68000

    tominated

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2006
    Location:
    Queensland, Australia
    #5
    if they have used a pc all their life, DON'T LET THEM USE THE MAC. They will be confused and probably think that because it's not like windows it will hinder productivity. apart from that i kinda agree with kornyboy
     
  6. opeter macrumors 65816

    opeter

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2007
    Location:
    Slovenia, EU
    #6
    My friend in his studio just converted all his old Macs to Vista PCs (using almost for print only). They had problems with their new Yamaha printers and plotters, since they doesn't have MacOS drivers.

    The PCs works like a charm.
     
  7. AlexisV macrumors 68000

    AlexisV

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2007
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    #7
    The PCs might work like a charm, but the people using them might not be so happy!

    Does he want to go to Windows XP? Does he know it's a relic OS that is going to be killed off in the near future when Windows 7 comes out.

    Have you pointed out that it will harder to recruit staff if he expects them to be using XP? If I wanted to hire the best staff, I'd want to give them the best equipment. If I saw an ad that said I'd be using XP, I'd skip right on by.
     
  8. opeter macrumors 65816

    opeter

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2007
    Location:
    Slovenia, EU
    #8
    Actually the people were forced, to use macs and PCs (3 Macs, 5 PCs) in a mixed environment for 7 years. They are also happy now, that they can finally switch to something more modern, because on the Macs, they runned MacOS 9.2.2.
     
  9. lucidmedia macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Location:
    Wellington, New Zealand
    #9
    I would be interested to hear about the implications for web design as well.

    Little of what traditionally made macs strong for print design carries over to web design. I have been designing/developing for the web on the mac for about 14 years now and have always (subtly) felt that web design on a mac was more of a liability than a benefit. Never stopped me from doing it tho... :)

    Most of the web designers and developers at my studio voluntarily moved from the mac to the PC quite a while ago.

    That way they have:
    1. Easier access to testing (they see what 90% of their users are seeing)
    2. Fewer color/gamma issues (in a web context)
    3. A faster/more optimized flash player
    4. More open source tools available

    Is the CIO's motivation for this switch workflow based? or is he (or she) looking at the costs for your IT department to support two platforms, etc. etc.?

    p.s. I would consider moving this to the web development forum...
     
  10. pooky macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2003
    #10
    Tell him, "If the mac goes, I go."

    When he comes to your cube/office to take the mac, grab it and fight him for it. Scream "Noooooo" at the top of your lungs. Make as public a spectacle of it as you can. When he finally gets it from you, climb onto a desk, and shout to the whole office, "Enough of this! This is compu-facism. I'm out of here! Who's coming with me?" Then storm out of the building, followed by a legion of your coworkers.

    It's the only plan that's guaranteed to work.
     
  11. LeviG macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Location:
    Norfolk, UK
    #11
    only reason I can think of a specific reason to stick with macs for web design is that (intel) macs are the only legal system that can truely cross platform test. You can run windows from within os-x or via bootcamp for testing on the 90% userbase or you can use os-x to test for safari etc.

    And unless theres a business reason (tax deduction/rental of system) why would any business director get rid of a perfectly functional computer in the current economic climate if its able to do the work thats required of it.
     
  12. Consultant macrumors G5

    Consultant

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2007
    #12
    Mac is required for cross platform test.

    Although smaller market share, the user base is high end,
    more likely to spend money on worthwhile products.

    An older article. Current market share is higher.


    http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/9EF16A95-278E-40ED-9E00-FBEBD75207FB.html
     
  13. ChrisA macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Location:
    Redondo Beach, California
    #13
    Tell him you will be more productive on your preferred platform, Start working on a resume and if you find you no longer like your job, leave,
     
  14. SwiftLives macrumors 65816

    SwiftLives

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2001
    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    #14
    Do some fishing and find out why he wants to switch. I suspect it's because he doesn't want to support Macs.

    All you can do is state your case. You work 30-40% faster on a Mac because the OS is geared more toward your workflow (having multiple programs open at once and switching between them). Also, more and more Mac users are out there, and websites will need to be cross-platform/browser. Having a legal way to test that in invaluable.

    Or do what I did. I showed up with my Mac one day, plugged it in, and started working...in an All XP environment of 3,000 people. I don't, however, ask or expect IT to help me with any computer/OS specific problems. So I do have to troubleshoot it myself.

    Good luck.
     
  15. Eidorian macrumors Penryn

    Eidorian

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    #15
    Talk about your workflow and productivity over on OS X. It's the biggest reason I use it.
     
  16. gnasher729 macrumors P6

    gnasher729

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    #16
    Let's start with the importance of the Macintosh as a web platform. In the USA, about 16 percent of laptops are Macs. More than 70 percent of laptops that cost more than $1000 are Macs. The percentage is higher if your company doesn't aim at the extreme gamer market. Now I realise that some companies don't like doing business with people who pay way too much for a fashion item like a MacBook. On the other hand, some companies love doing business with people paying $1000 for a computer. And having websites designed so they work on these $1000 computers will help. Now that I'd call a business case.

    And then, you say you are 30 to 40 percent more productive using a Macintosh. Now I suppose that is when you are fully trained on XP and all changed software, but that training doesn't come for free. Well, I'd call that a business case. So what is his business case for reducing your productivity by 30 percent?

    And does he know that Apple unit sales grow 10 percent last year, while the rest of the industry saw their unit sales decrease by about 9 percent?
     
  17. Trip.Tucker Guest

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    #17
    Excellent point. It was definitely one of the biggest selling points when we introduced Mac's into our business and after our pilot group success, convincing business leads has been a piece of cake. Aside from a bunch of Citrix servers, we are just about non Windows.
     
  18. advancedOption thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2009
    #18
    Wow, what a response... thanks!

    I'll try and respond to everyone.

    kornyboy — He's never used a mac, and doesn't understand them at all.


    aluminumapple — The current threat is, I'll keep the hardware, but the they'll force it to boot into XP... and essentially disable OSX. If I saw my Mac Pro, with a 23" ACD, with the XP loading screen on it... I think I'd die a little inside.


    chameleon81 — I emailed him back asking for his Business case for getting rid of them (very carefully worded email) this is his response:

    No one ever suggested moving the whole orginisation to them.

    There are 2 other Macs, outside design. The previous CIO was very Mac friendly (but terrible at his job), and I don't think those two people will be able to keep their iMacs. But the Lead Designer has always had a Mac. I'm hoping that point will sway him. I think he's trying to clean up the mess made by the previous CIO... which unfortunatly in his eyes, includes my mac.


    tominated — He's had a look, and he's really impressed. He's actually quite a visual person, so OSX really appeals. But all only numbers matter to him, and to him, Macs cost too much, to buy, and to support.


    AlexisV — The rest of office is all XP, so XP to them is standard. The desktop support guys only know how to support XP. The staff recruitment is a good point, however, I haven't been able to convince them in the past to move the two designers that report to me to Macs. They remain on PCs. They're talented too. They'd both rather be on a Mac, but, weren't going to walk away from the job opportunity because of the PCs. The PCs do have ACDs attached... so they're not all bad... :)


    lucidmedia — With parallels I get the best of both worlds. Designing on the mac (Creative workflow) is superior, especially to XP. It's hard to define why. But as for testing, I use both OSX and XP through parallels to check everything. Because I do more design, I definetly want to stick with the Mac.

    I'm also a manager, so I'm not only running CS apps, so, in any given moment, I usually have around 12–15 applications running. OSX, for me, is vastly superior for that kind of juggling.

    Do other people find XP incredibly unstable with more than 2 adobe CS applications running?


    pooky — fantastic plan B.


    LeviG — Exactly. So it now looks like the hardware will stay, but get XP forced upon it. But that also means throwing away $4,000 worth of software licenses. I think he sees any money spent on the change as worth it, for the savings down the road.


    Consultant — Unfortunatly it's a non-commercial website, so that angle won't hold up. But the testing alone, is reason enough to keep it. However, I believe the threat is having an iMac setup off the network for testing. So everytime I needed to test something, I'd have to walk across the office and use the iMac, and then pop back to my machine and make a change... and then pop back... and then blow my brains out.


    ChrisA — I actually really like my job, switching to PC wouldn't force me out the door. I wouldn't remain here as long though. I know that threatening to quit is often a good way to make a point, or get what you want. But I think it makes people some unreasonable. I'd rather battle it with reasoned debate... and hopefully he'll respect that, and be reasonable himself.


    SwiftLives — So the fishing did show it's about support. The previous CIO, I believe, signed an expensive support arrangement with an apple certified support company. We only used them once or twice when my old G5 was switched to the Mac Pro soon after I got the job. The previous Lead Designer supported the G5 herself. I'm going to offer that I support it myself, and mention, if they take it away, I'll likely end up working on my personal MBP.

    However, the new CIO has grand plans for our crusty old network. Unfortunatly all our files will be moved into some EDRMS. He doesn't want to have to pay for it to be Mac compatible. We're hoping to keep the websites out of the EDRMS, and leave it for coporate to use.


    Eidorian — I think the productivity focus is a good idea. They can put a dollar value next to that. My boss can see that, without it, he'll have to pick the 30% of my work, that I will no longer be able to do. I'm not cheap, my salary is quite nice, and if they'll be getting 30% less out of me per week; thats a big waste of money.

    gnasher729 — I'm actually lightning on a PC... I'm considerably quicker than both my designers who use PCs. I'm hoping that makes the productivity calculations seem more reasonable. It would be hard to take them seriously, if I had never used a PC.


    Thanks everyone.

    I think it's clear, if I focus on productivity and testing, there can't be a reasonable reason for removing it. I think he might start over exagerating the cost of supporting it to try and make the loss of productivity. But I'd rather he becomes unreasonable and starts exagerating costs so I can punch holes in his business case.

    I'll keep you all posted about how it goes.
     
  19. bbeers macrumors regular

    bbeers

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2007
    Location:
    Maryland
    #19
    If it mainly comes down to cost of supporting the mac, I would offer to support the mac myself. Let him cancel the certified mac support, and let you take care of the machine. The only time you really need support is when there is hardware issues, and hopefully you have applecare on that thing to cover those.

    Best of Luck
     
  20. Aea macrumors 6502a

    Aea

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Location:
    Denver, Colorado
    #20
    He's asking somebody to switch OS's, in a best care scenario your productivity will be severely hampered from a computer to a computer move and even more by a OS move, there will be an invisible cost that will become quite evident when productivity slows down for a month or two. Probably outweighs the cost of even getting a brand new iMac or something like that in case your machine breaks.
     
  21. Trip.Tucker Guest

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    #21
    Yamaha printers and plotters? Please. Your friends' issue wasn't the Mac systems.
     
  22. jerryrock macrumors 6502

    jerryrock

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2007
    Location:
    Amsterdam, NY
    #22
    There has not been one documented case of a Mac with a virus.
     
  23. Mechcozmo macrumors 603

    Mechcozmo

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2004
    #23
    You say he likes numbers?
    Linkety
    And, a bit older, but perhaps still interesting, as things have only gotten better...
    Linkety
     
  24. junker macrumors 6502

    junker

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2006
    Location:
    An obtuse corner of the Triangle
    #24
    Point this out to him:

    Over 900,000 viruses, trojans, worms etc on windows OS's.

    Just under 20 for all mac OS's. (And these we're all in Classic -not OSX)

    That alone is a big time saver for the IT dept. in trying to fix your computer.
     
  25. RebootD macrumors 6502a

    RebootD

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2009
    Location:
    NW Indiana
    #25
    Last resort is hit the guy where it counts: Money.

    Most companies only understand the language of profit/loss/more with less/underbudget and don't care if you have to work 100hrs/week to get your job done so you have to put it in terms they care about. How much money will you SAVE them by sticking with the mac platform.

    Think of things like fonts, software, hardware etc that would have to be upgraded/purchased on top of the new machines. What about the printers/suppliers/clients you work with and possibly losing customers etc because of cross platform issues. (even if it's more of a lie now) Then if you can get project A done in 8 hours now but the learning curve of a PC will make that jump to 12 hrs they just lost 4 productive hours per project. This lets you say you can save the company 4 x number of projects a month and therefore get more done in less time/expense in man hours to the company.

    I'm also very tired and I don't know if I'm making sense so forgive my logic above! If none of this works realize you have to decide if you want to continue employment there and put up with this new mindset or start doing as others said and get that resume ready for when the economy stops sinking like the Titanic.
     

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