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Buy a 17" Powerbook Right Now. You'll Love It

Guys, please don't feed the trolls:D

It's obvious Rezet doesn't get the Mac imperitive, it's never really been about speed or price, it IS about productivity and style, both of which Apple has in spades right now.

Dell will spend the next 5 years trying to do what Apple has done this year.
 
But that troll does have SOME valid points. With $3300 you can get... Let's see. A nice used car. A damn good saxamaphone. There really aren't that many things in life that costs $3300, and when you think about it, it really is kinda overpriced. Hell, $3300 would take off quite a bit in my college tuition fees. I'm just glad the money didn't come all from my pocket.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 17", and one would have to pry it from my cold, dead body to take it. But the fact remains that it IS relatively expensive. Perhaps the only other gripe I have with it is the low resolution ... 1440 x 900 for such a ginormous screen seems almost blasphemous for its potential. Note that the 15.4" dell (to give an example) has better dot-pitch resolution --- even the current 15" pb does.
 
Rezet is the same Troll disguised as PurpleX over at the TreoCentral.com.
He's been bashing the newly introduced Treo 600 (Palm OS) in favor of the Windows Pocket PC's. The truth is, I suspect he doesn't even own any Apple computer nor Treo PDA's at all!

Don't waste your time replying to his arguments.
 
Originally posted by macrat
Rezet is the same Troll disguised as PurpleX over at the TreoCentral.com.
He's been bashing the newly introduced Treo 600 (Palm OS) in favor of the Windows Pocket PC's. The truth is, I suspect he doesn't even own any Apple computer nor Treo PDA's at all!

Don't waste your time replying to his arguments.
Click to expand...

Macrat, don't accuse me of anything with out proof, that you dont have. I've never been to that website, nor do I give a damn about pocket Pcs. SInce I see you are a newbie here, I'll give you advice, for constructive criticism of mac's hardware, you wont get banned. But for personal attacks especially accusations without proof, you will get it faster. So shush!
 
honestly i can see rezet's point of view. i'm a recent switcher, who purchased a 17" pb recently (typing this post on it) and feel that have gotten my money's worth with this machine.

the hardware specs on the machine are outdated (you can't really say anything about that), however, i haven't experienced any slowdown or problems with it. i think the machine is plenty fast, as i do music production and photoshopping, etc..., so i'm not the usual e-mail, aim type of guy. you can't really look at the hardware specs alone as most users don't even notice a difference at all.

the advantage i do find about the pb, is honestly os x. as cliche as that may sound it's the truth for me. the fact that it's bsd based is a dream and the fact that i can access the terminal to do tasks is very new to me as windows didn't really offer it. the look is sleek, as with the powerbook itself and i can't say i'm happier with a machine.

i didn't buy this machine because apple is "cool," but a lot of "hip" people seem to because it is the new fad and whatnot. there are a lot of mac elitists who are too eager to praise apple and it's pretty ridiculous. same goes with pc people who bash apple all the time. people have biases and opinions, so be it. it's not even an important topic. if you have the money to purchase a 17" powerbook, do so if you wish, i'm happy with my purchase and am going to be an apple enthusiast for some time.
 
Hey guys!! We are here for contructed crit.... just listen to others stand back and relax. I think the 17" PB is GREAT!! We are in Digital retouch. Since the arrival of the 17" PB gone are the days of Lugging G4 PM up and down studios. These babies save our lives as an assistant. I love them. Dont think they are too big or heavy and the screen is the perfect sizes. currently I am a 15"ownly not really tempted to get a new 17" but have been using them and find them superb. Not as bad as I imagine.

What I figure is either you go with Macs or PCs because shelling out on 2 sets of Software doesnt make sense. I mean why jump to PCs because they are offering a better offer at the moment, then switch back to macs when macs are having a goo day. Switching Software must be super expensive... and a pain in the arse!! what I work on and at my work place is just mac based, period. We dont give a monkeys what happens else where cause we dont (business sense). We only care about whats new from Apple...
 
Originally posted by HasanDaddy
I hope you guys don't mind me getting involved ---

For $3,300, this is what I can do on a Mac -

1. Edit videos over FCP, the BEST video editing software in the world!

2. Catalog photos on iPhoto and easily post them on the web

3. Catalong my tunes on iTunes and easily buy music from the Music Store

4. Burn an AWESOME DVD with professional iDVD backrounds

5. Plug my computer into the Television, through S-VIDEO, and admire my filmmaking over the Big Screen!

6. Have an AWESOME wireless internet DISTANCE (thank you Airport Extreme)

7. Create my own music over SoundTrack

....and more

For $2,200, this is what I could do with a PeeCee:

1. I could attempt to edit videos.... first I would have to purchase a $1,000+ software, if not more..... and take forever to learn an awkward, PC, interface of video editing

2. I can't even catalog photos on a PeeCee --- I could keep them in a folder though, and make the thumbnails look like pics, and pretend that its iPhoto Beta

3. Catalog music on a PeeCee??? I haven't even figured out how to encode a CD on those things! And there is no music store - I'll have to fiddle with Gnuttella

4. Burn a CD? First I'll have to buy Toast or something..... but that doesn't even have the professional themes of iTunes.... plus, Apple's DVD-R's are the most universal, according to DV.com....

5. I don't know of any PC laptop that I can plug into my TV, through a simple S-Video cable....

6. Yes we have wireless on these computers..... but their distance doesn't seem to be very good

7. I can't create ANY unlicensed music on WinDoZe!!!

So yes --- for $2200, you do get a faster computer, but you lose out on -

1. Better applications/software

2. More options and more inputs (S-Video)

Lastly --- sure its fast..... but I can see myself wasting time trying to get the PC to work right, then I would waiting for my Mac to render a video.......

In my opinion, Macs make my productivity MUCH MORE faster --- and with processor speeds in mind, that makes all my work much faster
Click to expand...

This is crap, dude. I have used many, many pcs to do all of the things you listed. You think a pc can't catalog a few photos?? (The good news for macs is that there is good software is built-in. The bad news is that you'll still be spending a few hundred to $1000 for the 'pro' versions.) The list goes on.. There are even many pc laptops with s-video output.

The real difference is not that the mac does things that a pc can't, or that it does them 'faster'.. It's that it does them without windows. Windows is what makes a crappy pc crappy. Windows is what crashes your software, resets your active desktop, drains your system resources, screws up your networking, screws up your files, screws up your life. Believe me, I've owned a lot of pcs and a lot of macs. My girlfriend still owns a pc (those she'd switch if she had that cash). That beast of a sony vaio belongs in a lake of fire for all of the frustration it causes her.

So I agree that the mac laptop is better, just don't lie about what a pc can do. People who use pcs will know that you're lying.
 
The 17" uses outdated hardware. There is no way to claim otherwise. However, OSX runs so clean and fast compared to Windows that it more than makes up for the difference in hardware power.

Something to chew on:
When on my iBook 700 doing nothing (no apps loading, not typing, like I'm reading a web page) the CPU is around 1-2%. On the Athlon 1.6 GHz (which SHOULD be a faster processor), under the same conditions (except I am using Windows), the CPU usage hovers around 15-20%, wich spikes into the 90% range every few seconds.
 
It's not "outdated." It's just old. For all intents and purposes all of the PowerBooks are 9 months old, even though the 12- and 17-inch models use a faster system bus. The 867 and 1 GHz processors were introduced with the Titanium PowerBooks on November 6, 2002. So those processors have been around that long.

As far as the 17-inch PowerBook, you can now get it for $2,999 at the Apple Store for Education. But why get the 17-inch PB for $2,999 when you can get a Dual 2 GHz G5 + a Mitsubishi Diamond Plus 17-inch Flat CRT for $2,874 at the Apple Store for Education? Seems to me the price is still too high for the 17-inch PB given what it offers.
 
I agree with the original post.

I own the 17"PB, and it is amazing. I love the machine, the speed, the elegance. It always gets a reaction and a lot of questions where ever I take it.

I travel all the time. 100,000+ mile per year. I've got a good bag for it, and will gladly take lugging the extra couple of pounds through the occassional trek through the airport for the extra screen which I get to enjoy all the time.

Sure, it's not right for everyone, and a Mac is a personal choice. But in my experience, most people, including those in this thread, who say it is too big, don't actually own one.
 
The 17" Powerbook uses outdated hardware
Click to expand...

Very funny. How outdated is Firewire 800? It can achieve 3200 Mbps with the proper length cable and is backward compatible to the original Firewire spec.

How outdated is Gigabit ethernet?

How outdated is a notebook that lasts 5 hours of battery on a 17" LCD without adding an external pad battery?

Only one other notebook offers a 17" LCD with 16 x 10 ratio and weighs 2 additional pounds and still doesn't offer the previous capabilities.

Bluetooth - built-in
IEEE 802.11g - built-in

On other points, both Firewire ports offer the ability to power external firewire devices without the 4 pin nonsense Firewire that Sony puts in their notebooks.

Superdrive is built-in though yes other companies offer built-in Superdrives in their notebooks. Still none is as easy to use as Apple's iDVD.

A Powerbook can run both Windows XP with emulation and Mac OS X. Also you can run XWindows without having to reboot.

A Windows PC, you may be able to run XP, but you can't run higher than Mac OS 8.1.

Ah yes, outdated hardware. If a PC notebook offered that many features in a package than is under 7 lbs, I'd go for it. But it doesn't at less than $3000.

And regardless of what you say, the 1 Ghz G4 is still faster than any PC processor out there. Just look at the MTOPs rating here:

http://forgetcomputers.com/~jdroz/09.html

Not to mention the Powerbook's software is able to get the job done quicker because it is easier to use.
 
Originally posted by gopher
And regardless of what you say, the 1 Ghz G4 is still faster than any PC processor out there.
Click to expand...

You just invalidated everything you said by making that statement.

The 1GHz G4 faster than a 3GHz P4? lmfao! Now that's funny.

I love the 17" Powerbook, but it's nowhere near the speed of a 3GHz Wintel laptop. Perhaps when the G5 laptops come out they might produce something faster, but right now, the G4 is slow.

That discussion has been had 100 times before and even Mac users (who've used a 3GHz Wintel laptop) admit that it's much faster than the 1GHz G4.

I was agreeing with everything you said up until that statement. If I were to choose, I would still buy a 17" PB over any Wintel laptop out there, but I certainly wouldn't be under the illusion that the 1GHz G4 would be faster than a Wintel 3GHz.
 
Originally posted by Source
You just invalidated everything you said by making that statement.

The 1GHz G4 faster than a 3GHz P4? lmfao! Now that's funny.

I love the 17" Powerbook, but it's nowhere near the speed of a 3GHz Wintel laptop. Perhaps when the G5 laptops come out they might produce something faster, but right now, the G4 is slow.

That discussion has been had 100 times before and even Mac users (who've used a 3GHz Wintel laptop) admit that it's much faster than the 1GHz G4.

I was agreeing with everything you said up until that statement. If I were to choose, I would still buy a 17" PB over any Wintel laptop out there, but I certainly wouldn't be under the illusion that the 1GHz G4 would be faster than a Wintel 3GHz.
Click to expand...
That statement is true, and I'll stand by it. The benchmarks show that in everything except Adobe Premier it is faster.
 
Last night I had the opportunity to play around with my friends Inspiron 5100 and can't say I would ever buy one myself. Although I wasn't running resource demanding programs, his 2.4 Ghz P4 didn't seem any faster than the 1.3 I have on my desktop. On top of that, the thing weighed over 8 lbs., was very bulky, and had a battery life of 2 hours.

It may have a fast benchmark, but I don't plan on playing Quake 3.
 
Actually PC hardware is the winning factor between Mac and PC.

You can build a machine to your exact specifications with a PC.

Also, i don't really understand why people is saying the Apple Cinema Display range are so good, not even Apple is stating the specification for these displays, are they hiding the real response times for them?

I can buy Samsung 24" LCD which got much higher specifications than the Apple Cinema Display range, not to say the much lower response times.

I get the thinking that Apple users set the design as number one priority and performance second.

Design is not helping you to be more productive, performance does, and today a dual Xeon 3.06GHz machine with SCSI RAID is the workhorse to buy.

Correct me if i am wrong but i think i am telling some truth into it.

No doubt Apple got real nice design and the G5 is nice but you don't get the freedom as you get with a PC you built yourself.

If you are a non-technical person, go for Apple or PC, doesn't matter to you......;)


Not to mention the freedom to run almost any OS you want on your x86 hardware.

Actually you can make a screaming dual Xeon with FreeBSD better and faster than a Mac with MacOSX.

Don't mention Windows XP or any other alternative as i can agree with most of you that Windows is NOT freedom and it's boring to use, but Windows XP is the best OS Microsoft released compared to their older releases.

However, that doesn't make Microsoft any good.

You guys still use Microsoft software on your Macs, why?

If you have a Mac and run MacOSX, then you shouldn't install Microsoft Office or whatever, i don't get it:eek:
 
Originally posted by Rezet
1.6 centrino is around 2.6 P4. Even on laptops it will smoke any current G4. Give me a break.
Second PBook pushes out 75 fps in q3, it even says on apple website. so get quiet there with your 170.
http://www.apple.com/powerbook/graphics.html

And PC dies 1-2 years LOL, you really dont know crap then. I know people who are still using 166mhz p1 laptops ok?
And, C'mon tell me that Pbook is faster for games than centrino. I dare you to say and prove that. Damn crappy Unreal Tournament requires G4 733 and runs like **** on on 733.
While if you have 850Mhz Athlon, you can smoke people in that game no problem.
PC laptops > Mac laptops
From speed factor.
And if you just refuse to realize and see that. We don't even need to continue that conversation. Feel they way you want. Im standing behing everything I said.
Period.
Click to expand...
Dude, I hate to tell you this, but even though the Centrino at 1.6 smokes the PowerBook at 1.0 ghz, the integrated graphics chipset shares it's graphics memory with main system memory and will blow chunks on games compared to the ATI Radeon 9000 or GeForce 440 MX that is in the PowerBooks...

For raw processing power, sure, the Centrino kicks ass, but this system is not designed to be a gaming machine. It's designed to run MS Office and other 2D applications at a high rate of speed and still give you 6 hours of battery life. The PowerBooks are designed to be well-rounded notebooks, and Apple doesn't skimp on third-rate components like Gateway seems to do. At least compare Apples to well... Dells or something with a decent GPU chipset.

Oh, and chill out just a little bit... you'll live longer if you don't give yourself a brain aneurism at such a young age... ;)
 
Originally posted by HasanDaddy
For $3,300, this is what I can do on a Mac -
<snip>
For $2,200, this is what I could do with a PeeCee:
<snip>
Click to expand...
Bad examples. You can do all of those tasks on a PC or a Mac. Just because you are more comfortable with one platform doesn't mean that other people work the same way.
 
Originally posted by Likvid

I can buy Samsung 24" LCD which got much higher specifications than the Apple Cinema Display range, not to say the much lower response times. [/B]
Click to expand...

Yeah right. 24" LCD is NOT a notebook. This thread is discussing notebooks, not LCD machines. Oh and as for the Samsung, does it have Colorsync compatibility? Does it come with 1920 x 1200 resolution at $2000 for the consumer with a digital display adapter? Let's see here:

http://www.nextag.com/Samsung_24IN_LCD_27MM~2978087z0znzzz1zzsamsung_lcdzmainz2-htm

$2599
($2521 cash price at Infinity Micro)
1 inch more on the LCD costs $500 more? Come on now!

Same resolution as Apple's display yet over a wider area. Oh and yes, Apple actually uses Samsung to make their displays.
 
Originally posted by gopher
That statement is true, and I'll stand by it. The benchmarks show that in everything except Adobe Premier it is faster.
Click to expand...

Gopher, no it's not true.

I've seen benchmarks at xlr8yourmac.com where they tested a 800MHz G4 Powerbook vs an 800MHz P3 latop, where the G4 was marginally better than the P3 - Which is great! When it comes to MHz to MHz tests, the G4 wins. But a 3GHz Pentium smokes a 1GHz G4 and I'd love to see these Benchmarks of yours to prove otherwise.

Unless, that is, everything that you've been stating as "the truth" was merely "a lie".
 
Originally posted by Source
Gopher, no it's not true.

I've seen benchmarks at xlr8yourmac.com where they tested a 800MHz G4 Powerbook vs an 800MHz P3 latop, where the G4 was marginally better than the P3 - Which is great! When it comes to MHz to MHz tests, the G4 wins. But a 3GHz Pentium smokes a 1GHz G4 and I'd love to see these Benchmarks of yours to prove otherwise.

Unless, that is, everything that you've been stating as "the truth" was merely "a lie".
Click to expand...

Oh no, if a processor can handle that kind of floating point calculation, all the developer has to do is optimize for the processor. In those cases where benchmarks are not accurately portraying what the processor is doing, the developer needs to optimize their program better. If we are going to honestly consider what is a faster processor, faster, we need to look at where having a faster processor is of greatest advantage. If your floating point calculations are faster, then that is of great advantage. The 1 Ghz G4 is clearly faster in floating point calculations. A lot of slowdown you experience is either due to a mismatch in terms of how fast the program writes data to chip hardware vs. hard disks, or how long the process is stuck in the processor and unable to return to where it is needed, and that is by the program in memory. Both the shorter pipelines and fewer pipelines of the G4 give it a much greater advantage over any Pentium IV. Not to mention the fact that floating point calculations can be calculated a lot faster on a G4. If you find software that isn't optimized for the Mac, write the developer your dismay at their lack of programming effort to optimize for the Mac. Premier clearly was on the back burner for Adobe a long time ago when it came to Mac development as they let its optimization slide when compared to PCs. And now they are no longer developing Premier for the Mac thanks to Final Cut Express's undercutting Premier's price. Thus I would say that any lack of speed noticed on the Mac is due to developer's lack of optimization, and not due to the processor being "old hardware" as some people are trying to claim. The G4 is quite capable of outmuscling all Pentiums, even at 1 Ghz as the MTOP rating clearly shows. Are developers optimizing their code enough for the Mac? In some cases yes, and in some cases no. That is my whole argument is that the hardware is by no means outdated. Mac users have not demanded enough of the developers for them to listen all the time when their code does not meet the speed standards that Mac users want. We have to stop thinking in terms of Mhz, and start looking at the actual advantages the G4 and G5 give us, and demand from developers better code if we are to get code that is as up to date as our hardware.
 
gopher:

Actually you are wrong, LG makes Apple's Cinema Displays and not Samsung.

Why are Apple not showing the specs for their displays?

If the response times are so great, why hide it for the customer?

If i buy the 23" Apple Display i want to know the real specifications, this is not a smart move from Apple for an eventual switcher.
 
Originally posted by gopher
Oh no, if a processor can handle that kind of floating point calculation...
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but:

1. Where are the links to the benchmarks you spoke of?

2. If a developer doesn't optimize their software for Mac, that's still a problem and still makes a Mac slower than a PC with that piece of software. Even with optimized software, a 1GHz Mac will be a lot slower than a 3GHz PC.

3. If Macs are still faster than PCs even with their 1GHz G4s vs the 3GHz Pentiums, why did Apple bother to make the change to IBM and the G5s?
 
This is interesting, i would love to see the difference in time it takes to compile the kernel on identical installed Linux notebooks, the G4 1GHz and the Centrino 1.6GHz.

Anyone here who can make this test, that way we know exactly how much slower the G4 is and we can make our descision based on that.
 
Originally posted by Source
I'm sorry, but:

1. Where are the links to the benchmarks you spoke of?

2. If a developer doesn't optimize their software for Mac, that's still a problem and still makes a Mac slower than a PC with that piece of software. Even with optimized software, a 1GHz Mac will be a lot slower than a 3GHz PC.

3. If Macs are still faster than PCs even with their 1GHz G4s vs the 3GHz Pentiums, why did Apple bother to make the change to IBM and the G5s?
Click to expand...

I gave those benchmarks earlier in the thread:

http://forgetcomputers.com/~jdroz/09.html
 
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