Buyer Beware: Retina MBP Burn-In Extraordinaire

[eeptman]

My 23" Cinema Display at work has been displaying retained images for years (probably since new and I may not have noticed the first year or more). When moving a white window aside, I can actually read the retained small text of the white window on a dark grey window behind it. The ghost image takes about 5-minutes to fade.
It bothered me a bit at first, but only psychologically. I doubt it's ever effected the quality of my photo editing or video color grading. It's never gotten better or worse and I'd also assume it's just a by-product of the technology. I suppose it would depend on just how high a contrast there is between the dark grey background and the less-dark-grey ghost.
This thread has got me curious about my HP 23" IPS display as well, which I've never bothered to analyze for ghosts. Maybe I'll check it tonight.
Anyway, I'm not going to return my rMBP (still on backorder) if it's an issue I have to go looking for, but I would if it is an issue so severe that it's constantly looking for me.

The new rMBP they replace for me has none of this issue at all. Setting 50% brightness is even able to result the burn-in image on my previous rMBP.

I simply demonstrated the whole progress to Genius at Apple Store yesterday. The panel kind of has some defect. I encourage you return the machine or ask for replacing once you find out any burn-in images.

 

[therealseebs]

can some explain the long term impact that this image retention can cause?

are people who are testing leaving the image on screen for time in excess of 30 mins?

is this a defect or normal for these types of screens?

is apple replacing the units because its a defect or just to people within their return period?

Long-term impact: None whatsoever.

Dunno how long people are testing for, on my other displays I can usually spot some of this within a minute or five, but it's not as though I pay much attention.

I've been told it's normal, I've never seen a display I didn't see it on. Problem is, it's sort of subtle, and people can get very worked up about it or just not happen to be able to see it because they're in a place with bright lighting, so it's hard for me to trust reports; you gotta judge for yourself whether you're finding it a problem.

No idea why Apple's replacing units, but I think in general they'll swap anything once.

 

[PVisitors]

Just a few questions to those experienced this issue;

Was your model from the Apple store/bought online?
What date did you order/pick it up from the store?
Did your replacement model (or those who have received it) have the same issue?
Is the ghosting noticeable when you have mid brightness and not a solid grey wallpaper?
Assuming you went to the Apple store, do they have a stock of 'replacement' MBPRs which they don't sell? Or is back to waiting 3-4 weeks? If so, do you get to keep your old MBPR until your replacement arrives in stock?

Hoping that by the time my MBPR ships the (hopefully) bad batch of displays will all be used up for the initial rush of the first 2 days. When I get it I'm going to give it 2-3 days normal use and then try the test. If I see nothing wrong during the first 3 days of normal usage but I get the 'ghosting' I might be tempted to not bother replacing it. If I can't replicate it while using the laptop normally, is it really a major issue? If I do notice it while using it normally I think I am tempted to return it and buy a 8gb 13" Macbook Air, and then buy the later generations which hopefully by then will all be using Retina when I graduate.

 

[brutusfly]

The new rMBP they replace for me has none of this issue at all. Setting 50% brightness is even able to result the burn-in image on my previous rMBP.

Very valuable info. That frames the issue properly—an owner who has experienced a clear difference. Thanks.

 

[eeptman]

Just a few questions to those experienced this issue;

Was your model from the Apple store/bought online?
What date did you order/pick it up from the store?
Did your replacement model (or those who have received it) have the same issue?
Is the ghosting noticeable when you have mid brightness and not a solid grey wallpaper?
Assuming you went to the Apple store, do they have a stock of 'replacement' MBPRs which they don't sell? Or is back to waiting 3-4 weeks? If so, do you get to keep your old MBPR until your replacement arrives in stock?

Hoping that by the time my MBPR ships the (hopefully) bad batch of displays will all be used up for the initial rush of the first 2 days. When I get it I'm going to give it 2-3 days normal use and then try the test. If I see nothing wrong during the first 3 days of normal usage but I get the 'ghosting' I might be tempted to not bother replacing it. If I can't replicate it while using the laptop normally, is it really a major issue? If I do notice it while using it normally I think I am tempted to return it and buy a 8gb 13" Macbook Air, and then buy the later generations which hopefully by then will all be using Retina when I graduate.

I picked up mine (base model rMBP) from Apple Store around nine days ago.

They probably will check if there is any unit in stock for replacement first. Otherwise, you have to wait for weeks at the meantime.

The image persistence, in my case, is hardly been seen in most of usages with colorful wallpapers. The solid dark gray color background could help you identify this issue.

Check it by yourself once you get your machine. If you are not satisfied, just return it.

 

[stockinvestor]

SELL YOUR APPLE STOCKS! I AM TAKING APPLE TO COURT!

 

[DJAKO]

So I just noticed my rMBP has this ghosting issue. I ordered it online with the 16GB upgrade. I setup a genius appointment for tomorrow, but does this mean I will have to wait the 3-4 weeks if they plan to replace it?

I should obviously get a brand new one correct, rather than them replacing the screen?

Any chance they will let me keep my current one until the new unit arrives?

 

[Andrmgic]

I see it on mine too..

Unfortunately the nearest apple store to me is about 3 hours away so that's not going to happen anytime soon.

Once people actually start getting stock of these units more regularly, I'll take it into the local apple authorized repair shop and see what they say.

update -

Best Buy emailed me and told me that the 2.6 Ghz 512GB model that I reserved was ready for pickup.. so I went in and exchanged my 2.3 256GB for the new one.. and so far, the new one does not appear to have the image persistence issue.

Definitely looks like a bad batch in the initial production run.

 

[jsnuff1]

The new rMBP they replace for me has none of this issue at all. Setting 50% brightness is even able to result the burn-in image on my previous rMBP.

I simply demonstrated the whole progress to Genius at Apple Store yesterday. The panel kind of has some defect. I encourage you return the machine or ask for replacing once you find out any burn-in images.

Whats the best way to reproduce this?

I see it on mine but it goes away after a while. Is there a certain window/color combination i should use that makes the burn in more noticeable? I had a really bad vertical rectangle on the right portion of my screen today that was about 2/5ths the width of the screen, but not sure what caused it.

 

[M5RahuL]

Whats the best way to reproduce this?

I see it on mine but it goes away after a while. Is there a certain window/color combination i should use that makes the burn in more noticeable? I had a really bad vertical rectangle on the right portion of my screen today that was about 2/5ths the width of the screen, but not sure what caused it.

1) Take a screen shot [ Launchpad >> Utilities >> Grab ]

Or,

2) Make a genius appointment
Charge your laptop to 100%
Open Safari and leave it on any page with static images
Set Wallpaper to Dark Grey [ Wallpaper >> Solid Colors >> Dark Grey ]
Set brightness to max and disable hard drive and display sleep
Drive to the Apple store with the screen on and safari open on that website
Minimize Safari AFTER you have explained your case and the Genius is ready to see proof
Show Genius the Image Retention Image, on your desktop


Hope that helps!

 

[heresjohnny]

1) Take a screen shot [ Launchpad >> Utilities >> Grab ]

Ummmm.... Maybe try taking a picture of the screen instead. If a screenshot is capturing this ghosting, then it's a problem before it hits the panel.

 

[salthustle]

Just noticed i am getting this ghosting issue as well, i called up Apple and they want to take it for repair... sigh.

How can it be repaired when they still cant meet demand for these?! I have 2 deadlines coming up but cant have my laptop thats barely two weeks old breaking on me. They wouldn't even acknowledge it as an issue that others are having on the phone so i'm glad i found the forum discussing this, as it is clearly quiet a big one.

My problem is i'm now just past the 14 day mark, and i only just realised it as an issue has not got any better, it is now really bad! It looked like this after having mail open for just 5 minutes....

On the phone i was told they wont provide a loaner till this faulty one is repaired/replace. Not good enough! This fault could cost me clients! Can i get them to replace this one, and keep it till the replacement is in stock so i can work still?

Should i be going to a store and demanding a replacement rather than talking on the phone and being left machineless for easily 5 plus working days to 4 weeks?!

Whats Apples line on this production issue? For the kind of money the retina costs i am not happy at all!

 

[stevelam]

Just noticed i am getting this ghosting issue as well, i called up Apple and they want to take it for repair... sigh.

How can it be repaired when they still cant meet demand for these?! I have 2 deadlines coming up but cant have my laptop thats barely two weeks old breaking on me. They wouldn't even acknowledge it as an issue that others are having on the phone so i'm glad i found the forum discussing this, as it is clearly quiet a big one.

My problem is i'm now just past the 14 day mark, and i only just realised it as an issue, but it is really bad! It looked like this after having mail open for just 5 minutes....

Image

On the phone i was told they wont provide a loaner till this faulty one is repaired/replace. Not good enough! This fault could cost me clients! Can i get them to replace this one, and keep it till the replacement is in stock so i can work still?

Should i be going to a store and demanding a replacement rather than talking on the phone and being left machineless for easily 5 plus working days to 4 weeks?!

Whats Apples line on this production issue? For the kind of money the retina costs i am not happy at all!

That's the chance you take for trying to be on the bleeding edge and with first production machines.

 

[salthustle]

That's the chance you take for trying to be on the bleeding edge and with first production machines.

A product thats this expensive shouldn't ship with such obvious defects. The issue here is with apple, not the fact i've bought the machine. I'm expecting them to make this right and so far the customer support has been *****!

 

[aaagat111]

A product thats this expensive shouldn't ship with such obvious defects. The issue here is with apple, not the fact i've bought the machine. I'm expecting them to make this right and so far the customer support has been *****!

Firstly it's not an obvious defect. If it truly was obvious, Apple wouldn't have shipped it. While the issue may be affecting your machine, that doesn't mean it is a universal problem, or better yet was clearly known internally.

You and all the other early adopters on this and related threads have to understand that no matter the price, when you choose to adopt new technology of any type there inevitably will be defects/issues. Apple, along with every other company idealistically would choose to release 100% stable products, but this is just not realistic. Apple tries to work out as many kinks and issues as possible, and put products under rigorous stress and environment tests, but no matter how much they test internally, when they release it to the public very specific and sometimes low probability issues surface - it's just how the development process works.

When you decide to upgrade to the newest operating system that was released yesterday or to buy new retina screen technology that is not in any of their other computer models yet, you have to accept the possibility of this type of issue arising, and know its that much more likely to arise when you buy gen 1 (like the rMBP), then a gen 3 or 4 hardware refresh (the cMBP that was more or less refreshed).

Obviously you should be given proper customer support and yes, they are at fault here. However all too often it seems people are out of touch with what they are getting themselves into by purchasing this type of product and many times their complaints accurately reflect this.

 

[salthustle]

Firstly it's not an obvious defect. If it truly was obvious, Apple wouldn't have shipped it. While the issue may be affecting your machine, that doesn't mean it is a universal problem, or better yet was clearly known internally.

You and all the other early adopters on this and related threads have to understand that no matter the price, when you choose to adopt new technology of any type there inevitably will be defects/issues. Apple, along with every other company idealistically would choose to release 100% stable products, but this is just not realistic. Apple tries to work out as many kinks and issues as possible, and put products under rigorous stress and environment tests, but no matter how much they test internally, when they release it to the public very specific and sometimes low probability issues surface - it's just how the development process works.

When you decide to upgrade to the newest operating system that was released yesterday or to buy new retina screen technology that is not in any of their other computer models yet, you have to accept the possibility of this type of issue arising, and know its that much more likely to arise when you buy gen 1 (like the rMBP), then a gen 3 or 4 hardware refresh (the cMBP that was more or less refreshed).

Obviously you should be given proper customer support and yes, they are at fault here. However all too often it seems people are out of touch with what they are getting themselves into by purchasing this type of product and many times their complaints accurately reflect this.

Thanks but i completely understand cutting edge technology will always have problems to work through... It is how they are worked through that is the problem here.

For the price of these products, having a flippant customer advisor tell me that i will have to send it off for assesment - up to 5 working days, then repair (when it is a non repairable issue), and then if it needs replacing wait up to an additional 5 weeks - all whilst without a machine to work on (to the detriment of my business) is what is not acceptable.

Speaking to a senior apple advisor today for over an hour has finally got me somewhere closer to a more acceptable resolution. They have found it to be a non user specific issue and are awaiting authorisation from the engineering department to provide me with an advanced replacement. Even that means i have to wait for up to 4 days for a response though and then have no guarantees that the issue is any closer to being solved.

I actually went to a store when i noticed this issue within the 14 days return policy and the advisor i saw waived it off as "excess glue that still needs burning off. It will get better in a few days". It has however got severely worse and i'm now out of the return and refund limit. C'mon Apple sort it out!

 

[Mojo1]

My Two Cents...

For the price of these products, having a flippant customer advisor tell me that i will have to send it off for assesment - up to 5 working days, then repair (when it is a non repairable issue), and then if it needs replacing wait up to an additional 5 weeks - all whilst without a machine to work on (to the detriment of my business) is what is not acceptable.

While I sympathize with your situation, savvy Mac users generally realize that buying a Revision A. Apple product can be risky. I routinely advise people to wait until the dust settles when they are considering buying a new Mac with major hardware/OS changes. And I often get criticized by myriad Apple minions who must have the Latest and Greatest thing...

If your business truly depends on your Mac then you took quite a risk buying a Retina MBP seeing as how there is plenty of info on Macrumors and elsewhere regarding hardware problems and software incompatibility issues.

Putting aside the Retina MBP issue, I think that it is crazy to have a business that depends on a computer with only one computer available in case something goes wrong. I also depend on my computers in my business, which means that I always have at least two Macs on hand for my use, as well as multiple on-site and off-site data backups. If the worse should happen I can also afford to immediately purchase a new Mac so that I can keep working while things get sorted out.

In the future I suggest that you forgo giving-in to the usual Apple Hysteria that accompanies new product introductions and that you obtain a backup Mac should your primary computer suffer a hardware failure or be lost/stolen.

 

[salthustle]

While I sympathize with your situation, savvy Mac users generally realize that buying a Revision A. Apple product can be risky. I routinely advise people to wait until the dust settles when they are considering buying a new Mac with major hardware/OS changes. And I often get criticized by myriad Apple minions who must have the Latest and Greatest thing...

If your business truly depends on your Mac then you took quite a risk buying a Retina MBP seeing as how there is plenty of info on Macrumors and elsewhere regarding hardware problems and software incompatibility issues.

Putting aside the Retina MBP issue, I think that it is crazy to have a business that depends on a computer with only one computer available in case something goes wrong. I also depend on my computers in my business, which means that I always have at least two Macs on hand for my use, as well as multiple on-site and off-site data backups. If the worse should happen I can also afford to immediately purchase a new Mac so that I can keep working while things get sorted out.

In the future I suggest that you forgo giving-in to the usual Apple Hysteria that accompanies new product introductions and that you obtain a backup Mac should your primary computer suffer a hardware failure or be lost/stolen.

Have all the above on site off site back ups etc etc but as a startup business the additional computers are all things that follow as the business grows. No one in the current economic climate has startup funds to double up on every machine! In fact the rMBP is one we got as a replacement for the previous ones that got stolen. The portability being the main reason for the upgrade as i'm constantly out in the field or different offices etc...

If i'm not offered a replacement by Apple i will just utilise UK law and the Sale of Goods act to demand a full refund. Apple might offer a 14 day return but the product is faulty and under UK law i am entitled to a full refund still - will claim that, get a MBP refresh and wait till these issues are ironed out.

 

[Slivortal]

That's the chance you take for trying to be on the bleeding edge and with first production machines.

To be fair, the first lines of most of Apple's product have some degree of manufacturing defects (not limited to Rev A models).

 

[Queen6]

Thanks but i completely understand cutting edge technology will always have problems to work through... It is how they are worked through that is the problem here.

For the price of these products, having a flippant customer advisor tell me that i will have to send it off for assesment - up to 5 working days, then repair (when it is a non repairable issue), and then if it needs replacing wait up to an additional 5 weeks - all whilst without a machine to work on (to the detriment of my business) is what is not acceptable.

Speaking to a senior apple advisor today for over an hour has finally got me somewhere closer to a more acceptable resolution. They have found it to be a non user specific issue and are awaiting authorisation from the engineering department to provide me with an advanced replacement. Even that means i have to wait for up to 4 days for a response though and then have no guarantees that the issue is any closer to being solved.

I actually went to a store when i noticed this issue within the 14 days return policy and the advisor i saw waived it off as "excess glue that still needs burning off. It will get better in a few days". It has however got severely worse and i'm now out of the return and refund limit. C'mon Apple sort it out!

I agree with previous statements the rMBP is one of Apple`s most cutting edge products; all new designs suffer issue in the early stages, in my industry we do our absolute level best to ensure all potential failure mechanisms are engineered out, however on implementation to the field issues can and do arise, it is simply not possible for any company to foresee and control all events and circumstance at the early stages of a new technology/production process regardless or their resources.

This brings me to another point, if you are heavily relient on this machine, the Retina was a very poor choice, without any form of backup; new design, new technology, new software, a complete new production process etc. The MBP is far more mature, has no present day software compatibility issues, a well matured production process, in short tried and proven in the public domain. I dont rely on my Mac`s for my sole income, yet i have a backup system in the event of my primary going down. I too took the path of the Retina, however it will be my secondary system until software catches up and I am comfortable with the Retina as a package. It`s also one of the driving factors why i did no go for a BTO as i fully inspected the machine in the shop, had there been issue replacement would have been a non issue.

Apple will do their best to rectify the situation, however as can be seen across this board and several others there is a high demand, undoubtedly a bottleneck in the supply chain, likely the display and all this is exasperated by those that just want to take a Retina for a free ride for a week or two or just want a Retina immediately while waiting on their BTO, and the few that are returning machines for OCD non reasons all placing strain on the system and delaying those that do have genuine justification for replacement, so you will have to be a little patient and accept that you also have a level of accountability.

 

[salthustle]

I agree with previous statements the rMBP is one of Apple`s most cutting edge products; all new designs suffer issue in the early stages, in my industry we do our absolute level best to ensure all potential failure mechanisms are engineered out, however on implementation to the field issues can and do arise, it is simply not possible for any company to foresee and control all events and circumstance at the early stages of a new technology/production process regardless or their resources.

This brings me to another point, if you are heavily relient on this machine, the Retina was a very poor choice, without any form of backup; new design, new technology, new software, a complete new production process etc. The MBP is far more mature, has no present day software compatibility issues, a well matured production process, in short tried and proven in the public domain. I dont rely on my Mac`s for my sole income, yet i have a backup system in the event of my primary going down. I too took the path of the Retina, however it will be my secondary system until software catches up and I am comfortable with the Retina as a package. It`s also one of the driving factors why i did no go for a BTO as i fully inspected the machine in the shop, had there been issue replacement would have been a non issue.

Apple will do their best to rectify the situation, however as can be seen across this board and several others there is a high demand, undoubtedly a bottleneck in the supply chain, likely the display and all this is exasperated by those that just want to take a Retina for a free ride for a week or two or just want a Retina immediately while waiting on their BTO, and the few that are returning machines for OCD non reasons all placing strain on the system and delaying those that do have genuine justification for replacement, so you will have to be a little patient and accept that you also have a level of accountability.

I have backup machines in office. But this is the one I'm taking out on location, to clients etc now. Like i said above I'm going to just get a full refund and go to the MBP for now, haven't got time for all this hassle.

 

[Queen6]

I have backup machines in office. But this is the one I'm taking out on location, to clients etc now. Like i said above I'm going to just get a full refund and go to the MBP for now, haven't got time for all this hassle.

For your present situation this by far is the best recourse, and most importantly least disruption to your work - good luck with the business

 

[terraphantm]

I've been using IPS displays for years.

I have never, ever, seen one that did not have fairly severe "burn-in", but it's temporary; lasts a longish time (you can still see it a day later), but goes away over long-term use.

Same for my Retina iPad, a little noticeable on the iPad 2, same on my 26" NEC display which is by far the nicest display I've ever had.

So I am not surprised or worried about it.

I too have been using IPS displays for years. None that I owned have ever had any burnin, and I've looked closely. My NEC 20WMGX2 is often run for 12+ hours without a screensaver. In the almost 8 years I've had that monitor, I never once saw anything resembling image retention.

I have a 24" iMac at work, and that thing can retain an image in just half an hour. Kinda annoying actually; I would not have put up with it if it were my own computer.

 

[deerfaced]

Just noticed i am getting this ghosting issue as well, i called up Apple and they want to take it for repair... sigh.

How can it be repaired when they still cant meet demand for these?! I have 2 deadlines coming up but cant have my laptop thats barely two weeks old breaking on me. They wouldn't even acknowledge it as an issue that others are having on the phone so i'm glad i found the forum discussing this, as it is clearly quiet a big one.

My problem is i'm now just past the 14 day mark, and i only just realised it as an issue has not got any better, it is now really bad! It looked like this after having mail open for just 5 minutes....

On the phone i was told they wont provide a loaner till this faulty one is repaired/replace. Not good enough! This fault could cost me clients! Can i get them to replace this one, and keep it till the replacement is in stock so i can work still?

Should i be going to a store and demanding a replacement rather than talking on the phone and being left machineless for easily 5 plus working days to 4 weeks?!

Whats Apples line on this production issue? For the kind of money the retina costs i am not happy at all!

You can sign a waiver with apple to allow you to keep your current laptop while they send you the replacement. (exactly what I've done for exactly the same ghosting problems)

Call applecare back, ask to sign a waiver so you can keep it, and while your replacement is built/ordered/delivered, you can keep yours.

You have 5-10 days to send the old one back before they charge your card for the new one.

Hope that helps.

I'm also glad that it seems that people who are receiving replacement laptops aren't seeing the same issues.

Mine suffers from ghosting, and is very apparent after a couple of minutes (I got it after reading the first page of this thread)

I can see it easily by scrolling left to the dashboard (or whatever its called with the calculator/weather etc)

 

[salthustle]

You can sign a waiver with apple to allow you to keep your current laptop while they send you the replacement. (exactly what I've done for exactly the same ghosting problems)

Call applecare back, ask to sign a waiver so you can keep it, and while your replacement is built/ordered/delivered, you can keep yours.

You have 5-10 days to send the old one back before they charge your card for the new one.

Hope that helps.

I'm also glad that it seems that people who are receiving replacement laptops aren't seeing the same issues.

Mine suffers from ghosting, and is very apparent after a couple of minutes (I got it after reading the first page of this thread)

I can see it easily by scrolling left to the dashboard (or whatever its called with the calculator/weather etc)

thanks will do that tomorrow.