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xb2003

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 18, 2016
386
180
MO
I bought one of the new XPS 13s and, while there is a lot to love about that machine, I'm fed up with Windows 10. I'm a musician and am in love with Logic, Mainstage, and just how well my audio interfaces work with my "Hackintosh," and I want a MacBook. I'm looking for an i7, >=8GB ram, and >=256GB SSD. I took a journey to the Apple Store today, and I think I want the size of the 15. The portability of my XPS is cool, but the screen seems small. I'm probably going to keep my gaming computer, so I don't think I need the dedicated GPU.

Here are my concerns: 1. The realitive "outdatedness" of the current 15" Pros, and 2. "Staingate."

We don't know how long until Apple updates the Pros, and what they will be like when they do.. Which scares me. I don't think that the ~5% CPU upgrade would be worth having to buy a bunch of adapters and docks because the new Pro only has USB C/TB3 ports. I'd rather have have the current MBP with a port configuration that suits me and hardware that is a little older. But... I'm wondering how well this 2 year old hardware would hold up for 4 or 5 years to come.

I just started reading about the "staingate" thing, and that's enough to make me hold off.

Any thoughts or comments on their experiences?
 

j1104638

Suspended
Dec 26, 2015
310
263
Wait if you can. Don't if you can't. The current rMBP is ok. It's just quite outdated both due to release schedule and due to the components Apple used.
Major things to consider
- Skylake has some hardware video encoders you'd like to have if you encode a lot
- Skylake iGPU is huge performance bump
- SSD will most likely be NVMe - better latencies and power efficiency
- Shift to USB-C connections for everything - if you buy current one you might end up not being able to fully use bleeding edge devices as they're created for USB-C
- Thunderbolt 3 is a huge performance bump and enables you to use external GPU (aka top-tier gaming rMBP)
- Speculations about 14" and 16" instead of 13" and 15"
- Speculations about huge performance bump for dGPU (highly unlikely before June or even later)
- Speculations about 4k-5k inner display
- Speculations about 5k Thunderbolt Display - it's likely you won't be able to connect it to current MBPs
- Speculations about full redesign

All in all next release might include a lot of major changes. Whether they will be implemented is up to Apple. I'd wait.
 
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T5BRICK

macrumors G3
Aug 3, 2006
8,313
2,387
Oregon
Here are my concerns: 1. The realitive "outdatedness" of the current 15" Pros

If you need a computer now, buy one now. If you can wait, then wait. The Skylake based rMBP may or may not be coming out soon, but it's only going to be 5-10% faster than the current model. You can find current model refurbished units for a discount.

2. "Staingate."

A small number of very vocal users can cause a lot of ruckus. Apple is replacing affected displays. I honestly wouldn't worry about it.
 

Ovedius

macrumors 6502
Aug 2, 2012
438
402
Norway
I would not worry about (...ugh, that word, -gate) Staingate.
If this happens to you, Apple should now fix it as stated here: https://www.macrumors.com/2015/10/17/apple-mbp-ar-coating-quality-program-staingate/

The 15" is still using Haswell CPUs unlike the 13" which has the slightly improved Broadwell CPU.
So when Skylake finally arrives in Macbooks it is reasonable to expect a nice all round performance increase in the 15"; more power, better battery life, better GPU.
Especially with regards to the integrated GPU, it will be quite a lot more powerful than what's currently in the 15".

So, since you already have a nice little computer in the XPS, wait for now.
Or don't.
Decisions decisions!
 

rpetunderclass

macrumors regular
Dec 9, 2014
136
35
I would say wait, a lot of rumors of some refreshed designs in March. Getting ready to sell my late 2013, already starting to slow down.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,706
I'd hold off, as Intel just released the new Skylake chipsets that will be used in the MBPs. Many people are expecting new machines in March which is next month.
 
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Dgrohl

macrumors member
Jan 15, 2016
46
13
I'd hold off, as Intel just released the new Skylake chipsets that will be used in the MBPs. Many people are expecting new machines in March which is next month.
But the latests rumors says that the March event is not for the new MacBook line up, and if it happens, It'll be just for the 13" rMBP. At least I've read that
 

Samuelsan2001

macrumors 604
Oct 24, 2013
7,729
2,153
But the latests rumors says that the March event is not for the new MacBook line up, and if it happens, It'll be just for the 13" rMBP. At least I've read that

Sort of there is speculation that t for the 15 inch they'll wait for AMD's new and far more power efficient GPU's for the high end 15 inch, may be as long as June.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,706
But the latests rumors says that the March event is not for the new MacBook line up, and if it happens, It'll be just for the 13" rMBP. At least I've read that
True, and in prior cases of these, Apple released an update a week before or after the event. Even if its not March, the release is due shortly, so the OP is best served waiting.
 
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maxsix

Suspended
Jun 28, 2015
3,100
3,731
Western Hemisphere
I bought one of the new XPS 13s and, while there is a lot to love about that machine, I'm fed up with Windows 10. I'm a musician and am in love with Logic, Mainstage, and just how well my audio interfaces work with my "Hackintosh," and I want a MacBook. I'm looking for an i7, >=8GB ram, and >=256GB SSD. I took a journey to the Apple Store today, and I think I want the size of the 15. The portability of my XPS is cool, but the screen seems small. I'm probably going to keep my gaming computer, so I don't think I need the dedicated GPU.

Here are my concerns: 1. The realitive "outdatedness" of the current 15" Pros, and 2. "Staingate."

We don't know how long until Apple updates the Pros, and what they will be like when they do.. Which scares me. I don't think that the ~5% CPU upgrade would be worth having to buy a bunch of adapters and docks because the new Pro only has USB C/TB3 ports. I'd rather have have the current MBP with a port configuration that suits me and hardware that is a little older. But... I'm wondering how well this 2 year old hardware would hold up for 4 or 5 years to come.

I just started reading about the "staingate" thing, and that's enough to make me hold off.

Any thoughts or comments on their experiences?
There's never a bad time to buy a MacBook Pro.

I've been buying them for years, upgrading at each refresh, they're simply the best... D
 

zhenya

macrumors 604
Jan 6, 2005
6,929
3,677
If you need a computer now, buy it now. If you can afford to wait, now is the best time in years to wait it out until Apple updates the lineup and it is almost certain that the update will be a big one. This will show it's value partly in the short-term (as they are likely to be a new design that is thinner and lighter with similar or slightly better battery life) and partly in the long term as things like usb-c and thunderbolt become mainstream. Several years from now a MBP sold today is going to be much more dated than one bought a few months from now.
 

Queen6

macrumors G4
Personally I am waiting, as the next update will be major, if it`s not then the Windows OEM`s will offer more for the the same price points. I also think the 15" won't appear until June as Apple needs to do something with the current mediocre dGPU, assuming they don't drop it altogether, which would not surprise me.

Q-6
 

David58117

macrumors 65816
Jan 24, 2013
1,237
523
I bought a 15" recently, deciding not to wait for the update, I'm also a musician..

I really don't think the CPU update will be that much of an improvement,,and even then - the quad core i7/16GB ram is already so much overkill for music production.

It seems more like the update will be about the iGPU, which I absolutely don't care for.

I'm fine with the battery life..getting past the 4-5 hours of prehaswell CPUs pretty much made battery life a non-issue for me. An extra hour isn't going to be the difference between leaving a charger at home and taking it, at least for me. And mostly when I work in Logic Pro X it's plugged in.

I also really like the design of the 15" retinas...the 15" non-retinas were beasts and heavy, but I think now they're a good blend of portability and still feeling sturdy.

...I'm also not sure I want to test out a redesign, and after what happened with the 2012 mac minis, I'm kind of nervous what Apple could take away..
 

xb2003

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 18, 2016
386
180
MO
I bought a 15" recently, deciding not to wait for the update, I'm also a musician..

I really don't think the CPU update will be that much of an improvement,,and even then - the quad core i7/16GB ram is already so much overkill for music production.

It seems more like the update will be about the iGPU, which I absolutely don't care for.

I'm fine with the battery life..getting past the 4-5 hours of prehaswell CPUs pretty much made battery life a non-issue for me. An extra hour isn't going to be the difference between leaving a charger at home and taking it, at least for me. And mostly when I work in Logic Pro X it's plugged in.

I also really like the design of the 15" retinas...the 15" non-retinas were beasts and heavy, but I think now they're a good blend of portability and still feeling sturdy.

...I'm also not sure I want to test out a redesign, and after what happened with the 2012 mac minis, I'm kind of nervous what Apple could take away..

This sums up exactly why I'm probably going to go ahead and buy one. I don't want to test a new model. I don't care that much about GPU performance, I have a PS4 and a gaming PC. I really, really like the current design. And I don't want to have to spend $100 or more on adapters if they take thunderbolt 2 and USB A off the MacBook.
 
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Dgrohl

macrumors member
Jan 15, 2016
46
13
Probably, I'll buy one soon too. I think it's still a great machine and I reckon that we won't see the new 15" until june. For me, the dGPU is almost mandatary since I will use Unity, Blender, Maya, but also I will use xcode and android studio.
 

xb2003

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 18, 2016
386
180
MO
It's kind of a crappy deal.. I would really like a 500GB hard drive. But it's like you do that upgrade, and it's within a few bucks of getting an upgraded cpu... So you put that one there too and then you are just a few buck away from dGPU. Apple really either wants you to have all three or none of the three.
 

David58117

macrumors 65816
Jan 24, 2013
1,237
523
It's kind of a crappy deal.. I would really like a 500GB hard drive. But it's like you do that upgrade, and it's within a few bucks of getting an upgraded cpu... So you put that one there too and then you are just a few buck away from dGPU. Apple really either wants you to have all three or none of the three.

bhphotovideo has the 2014 512GB version for $1,899.

I went with the 512 GB version initially, but really - if anything is going to eventually fail, it will be the dGPU. I really don't want a dGPU in my laptop if I can help it.

So I returned it for the 256 GB version. I put about 180GB of audio libraries on it, which works for me.
 
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xb2003

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 18, 2016
386
180
MO
Keep in mind that a more powerful iGPU is beneficial to more than just games.

Such as? I'm sure that video and picture editing are examples, but I've never edited either of these in my life.

I'm sure it will help overall performance, especially in the longer(ish) run, as it seems like they love adding it cool graphical effects to everyday stuff. I miss XP from that standpoint, it was ugly as hell.

How much improvement are we looking at from Skylake iGPU? I've read everything from -5% to up to 50%, but I haven't researched it that much..
 

modernaccord

macrumors 6502a
Apr 20, 2015
620
198
Seattle, WA region
I broke down and bought a 15" rmbp today. I have been working on an iPad Pro exclusively since its release in November, but my business needed a good way to organize tax forms and inventory spreadsheets. If it weren't for the IRS though, I would have waited it out for the Skylake Mac. I may cut my losses and buy a Skylake one when it comes out and flip the one I bought yesterday.
 

Amethysa

macrumors newbie
Dec 14, 2015
8
2
I purchased a used Macbook Pro 15/512gb/2.5ghz with m370x a couple of days ago for $1849.95 from B&H and it is in pristine condition - they definitely undervalued the device as it only had 3 charge cycles on it. So, in the event that the new Macbook Pro comes out I can flip this device for a profit. Go to AppleInsider for the best deals available, currently there is a 15" 2014 750m for $1799 or buy an open box at Best Buy for about $200 dollars cheaper. If you aren't satisfied with the product you can always return it. I know some do a 30-90 day return window which will cover the speculated March release period, if you really want that new MBP.

I've been waiting since October ever since hearing about a November, then December, then January release rumour and I held out, which is definitely not worth it.

Buy what you need now, not what rumours speculate because only you lose in the situation. Gambling what you need and the anticipation of a improved product will only disappoint you. There will always be something new coming out which will impede you to get what you need now, if you decide to play the waiting game.
 

xb2003

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 18, 2016
386
180
MO
So a couple of things.

I just looked at my moms MacBook Air and it says it has 440 (A!) charge cycles. She has had the thing 2 years and plugs and unplugs the thing 10x a day(I try and explain why this is bad but..). To save me the trouble of a simple google search, what is a charge cycle defined as?

Where do you guys go to sell a computer? eBay and craigslist?

I'm not afraid to buy refurbished, I just haven't come across any deals. Especially considering most places will have to charge tax, and Amazon doesn't in my state. 8% of $2000 is pretty significant..
 

Amethysa

macrumors newbie
Dec 14, 2015
8
2
So a couple of things.

I just looked at my moms MacBook Air and it says it has 440 (A!) charge cycles. She has had the thing 2 years and plugs and unplugs the thing 10x a day(I try and explain why this is bad but..). To save me the trouble of a simple google search, what is a charge cycle defined as?

Where do you guys go to sell a computer? eBay and craigslist?

I'm not afraid to buy refurbished, I just haven't come across any deals. Especially considering most places will have to charge tax, and Amazon doesn't in my state. 8% of $2000 is pretty significant..

The charge cycle is the number of full charge cycles that accrues to 100%, so one day of unplugging and using up 40% then recharging up to 100% then the next day of using 60% would be one full charge cycle. Some users have up to 900 charge cycles with 84% battery health which is good. The number of charge cycle isn't important but rather the health of the battery, you can find this out if you download an app called 'battery' for free.

Depends on what route you go in terms of selling your device. You could go to a company such as sellyourmac.com to find the value of your device in a few mins and make a selling transaction, however you would get slightly less than if you sold it via eBay or other similar vendors.

What state do you live in and what specs are you looking for? I could help you find some good deals minus the sales tax.
 

xb2003

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 18, 2016
386
180
MO
The charge cycle is the number of full charge cycles that accrues to 100%, so one day of unplugging and using up 40% then recharging up to 100% then the next day of using 60% would be one full charge cycle. Some users have up to 900 charge cycles with 84% battery health which is good. The number of charge cycle isn't important but rather the health of the battery, you can find this out if you download an app called 'battery' for free.

Depends on what route you go in terms of selling your device. You could go to a company such as sellyourmac.com to find the value of your device in a few mins and make a selling transaction, however you would get slightly less than if you sold it via eBay or other similar vendors.

What state do you live in and what specs are you looking for? I could help you find some good deals minus the sales tax.

I'm in MO and I'm looking for a 15 that's a good deal.. It would be nice to have a 512 GB but I don't really want to spend over $2000. The 1850 from prime for the Base 15 is my favorite so far. You don't need to do the work for me. I've been looking for different places to buy one used, I just usually don't see much.

I probably shouldn't say this, but BH has a 2014 with 512gb and nvidia for $1900. That's pretty tempting.
 
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