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Calender and Contact sync only via icloud - are they crazy
- Thread starter md11
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Thanks for posting that. The more traction this gets the greater the odds are Apple will address the issue.
I agree, why the author did not include contacts in the petition I don't know but it should be included.
I just checked EFF and could not find anything about this issue. I guess it's time to email them too.
Electronic Frontier Foundation
https://www.eff.org
I noticed there are more threads showing up on MacRumors and other sites about this. I really liked Mavericks during the short time I spent playing with it so I hope Apple sees the light.
The paranoid side of me has to wonder why Apple decided to remove SyncServices from Mavericks. Was it because they just want to have more users in the cloud, or did they give into pressure from those that want more access to "our" personal data?
Jon...
Just sent an email off to EFF informing them of the issue since I could not find anything about it on their site.
Hopefully they decide to look into it and put pressure on Apple.
Jon...
Hopefully they decide to look into it and put pressure on Apple.
Jon...
Here is the EFF Contact page...
https://www.eff.org/about/contact
I used the info@eff.org address since that seemed like the best choice.
If you have GPG Tools installed you can even send encrypted email to that address.
Jon...
You can't please everyone i guess. iPhone being tied to iTunes was one of its biggest negatives in most peoples eyes. Now it's free of iTunes and people are still upset. I guess the old features could have been still left available, but apple is known for dropping legacy support quicker than normal to make sure stuff is modern and efficient.
Except that Apple shoots all Mac users the middle finger because USB sync is still available for Windows users.
I remember those discussions about the iPhone being tied to iTunes. Although it never bothered me personally, I understand the reason people did not like it.
As you pointed out, I think it boils down to the fact that the choice has been removed. If Apple had not removed SyncServices from Mavericks this thread would not exist.
Combine that with the fact that a lot of people have become more aware regarding the snooping that has been going on for years, and a lot more people are thinking about the privacy of their personal data.
I'm glad more people are thinking about privacy but disappointed it took whistle blowers like Snowden and others to make it happen.
Sorry, didn't mean to ramble.
Jon
Hey! Perhaps the crazy decision to get rid of USB sync will now get more publicity: there's a big article by Lex Friedman on Macworld:
"And boy oh boy, dont get me started on iCloud. I dont use iCloud to sync my calendar, my contacts, or my email. I put my trust inof all companiesGoogle. While Google has sync down cold, Apples track record is terrible."
"Ive heard too many friends (including numerous Macworld staffers) complain of borked bookmarks, duplicated contacts, missing events, and worse because they relied on iCloud."
"Theres it just works and then theres iCloud. Sometimes it works great. Maybe it always works great for you. For me, sometimes it works a treat, and other times a reminder wont sync until hours after Id scheduled it to, you know, remind me about something."
"I trust that Apple wants iCloud to work, but I dont have faith that my data will sync properly. Apple wants me to believe that the truth is in the cloud, but my confidence is shaken."
http://www.macworld.com/article/2064275/cant-trust-this-inconsistencies-shake-faith-in-apple.html
"And boy oh boy, dont get me started on iCloud. I dont use iCloud to sync my calendar, my contacts, or my email. I put my trust inof all companiesGoogle. While Google has sync down cold, Apples track record is terrible."
"Ive heard too many friends (including numerous Macworld staffers) complain of borked bookmarks, duplicated contacts, missing events, and worse because they relied on iCloud."
"Theres it just works and then theres iCloud. Sometimes it works great. Maybe it always works great for you. For me, sometimes it works a treat, and other times a reminder wont sync until hours after Id scheduled it to, you know, remind me about something."
"I trust that Apple wants iCloud to work, but I dont have faith that my data will sync properly. Apple wants me to believe that the truth is in the cloud, but my confidence is shaken."
http://www.macworld.com/article/2064275/cant-trust-this-inconsistencies-shake-faith-in-apple.html
Before I start this "Me, too!" rant, I'll say something nice about the iCloud-only sync - it's cool to update your calendar on one device and have it magically appear on your others. That said...
...whoever made this clear "policy change" should be drawn and quartered. What the **** were they thinking? I personally mostly don't care about the privacy issues, although I agree Apple's track record isn't the best. My problem is operating outside of the network infrastructure. iCloud = required Internet access.
Apple (and Google, for that matter) have become arrogant in assuming everyone has 100% access to a big pipe, 24/7. That may be daily life for you guys and gals in Cupertino and Mountain View, but for those of us living and working in Flyover USA, 't'ain't so. When conducting my business away from the office, it can be hours - sometimes days - without public network access. That means that Calendar and Contact sync is offline.
What's worse, however...
...disconnect your Mac from iCloud in preferences, and poof! - all your calendar entries vanish, until you reconnect with the mothership. There is no local retention of your personal data, you are now completely dependent on the cloud.
I find it disturbing that I can sync entertainment content between my Mac and iOS devices all day without iCloud. But productivity content? No can do. Has Apple declared war on Macs for business use? Sure sounds like it. Looks to me like an opportunity for a developer to build an OS X/iOS suite for (formerly) simple stuff.
...whoever made this clear "policy change" should be drawn and quartered. What the **** were they thinking? I personally mostly don't care about the privacy issues, although I agree Apple's track record isn't the best. My problem is operating outside of the network infrastructure. iCloud = required Internet access.
Apple (and Google, for that matter) have become arrogant in assuming everyone has 100% access to a big pipe, 24/7. That may be daily life for you guys and gals in Cupertino and Mountain View, but for those of us living and working in Flyover USA, 't'ain't so. When conducting my business away from the office, it can be hours - sometimes days - without public network access. That means that Calendar and Contact sync is offline.
What's worse, however...
...disconnect your Mac from iCloud in preferences, and poof! - all your calendar entries vanish, until you reconnect with the mothership. There is no local retention of your personal data, you are now completely dependent on the cloud.
I find it disturbing that I can sync entertainment content between my Mac and iOS devices all day without iCloud. But productivity content? No can do. Has Apple declared war on Macs for business use? Sure sounds like it. Looks to me like an opportunity for a developer to build an OS X/iOS suite for (formerly) simple stuff.
This is basically my complaint also. Come on Apple, you are cutting out some of the folks who have supported you, with money if nothing else, and throwing them under the bus.
Privacy isn't the only concern
The main concern I have is not about privacy. Because I'm pretty sure our privacy was lost a LONG time ago.
My concern is the fact that Apple takes away so many choices when it comes to the cloud. Turn off the cloud and you loose a lot of info on your computer. If the cloud has a hiccup and looses your data, guess what gets synced to your computer? Yep, all your contacts go away, or your notes, or your calendar. And yes it has happened to me, TWICE. If Apple were to allow the computer on my desk to be the "Master", then I wouldn't have near the problem I have with the cloud now. But Apple makes the cloud the master and when it looses the data, it goes away from your computer.
The main concern I have is not about privacy. Because I'm pretty sure our privacy was lost a LONG time ago.
My concern is the fact that Apple takes away so many choices when it comes to the cloud. Turn off the cloud and you loose a lot of info on your computer. If the cloud has a hiccup and looses your data, guess what gets synced to your computer? Yep, all your contacts go away, or your notes, or your calendar. And yes it has happened to me, TWICE. If Apple were to allow the computer on my desk to be the "Master", then I wouldn't have near the problem I have with the cloud now. But Apple makes the cloud the master and when it looses the data, it goes away from your computer.
The cloud is the future. there is always a lot of resistance with change but eventually everyone falls in line when they see that things are being done differently.
for example when Apple decided to remove floppy disk drives I'm sure people had the same reaction
and more recently when they slowly removed the CD drives from laptops and Mini's..... it was an uproar at first, now you're hard pressed to find someone complaining about it.
cloud syncing is the future get on board.... Or get left behind.
for example when Apple decided to remove floppy disk drives I'm sure people had the same reaction
and more recently when they slowly removed the CD drives from laptops and Mini's..... it was an uproar at first, now you're hard pressed to find someone complaining about it.
cloud syncing is the future get on board.... Or get left behind.
The cloud is the future. there is always a lot of resistance with change but eventually everyone falls in line when they see that things are being done differently.
for example when Apple decided to remove floppy disk drives I'm sure people had the same reaction
and more recently when they slowly removed the CD drives from laptops and Mini's..... it was an uproar at first, now you're hard pressed to find someone complaining about it.
cloud syncing is the future get on board.... Or get left behind.
if you've followed the discussion elsewhere, then you know there are people who for legal reasons aren't allowed to put their contact list in the cloud. IOW, some companies require their employees to NOT use the cloud for contacts, eg defense companies, lawyers, etc.
Also, did you read the Macworld article? Apple's implementation is less than stellar (demonstrated over a number of years) and even the Macworld staffers, a well-known Apple cheering section, are complaining about cloud sync (among many other things in the article.)
We're just asking Apple to give us a choice between USB and cloud sync.
PS: space travel is also our future, but that doesn't mean it's ready yet.
Here's yet another article about how dis-functional iCloud is: Under the title "iCloud is broken..."
"Heres a good example. I use iCloud to sync up Calendar, Contacts, Keychain, Email accounts, bookmarks and more between Macs, iPhone, and iPad."
"Invariably, something goes wonky at least once a week leaving me with duplicates to delete or something not working today when it did yesterday."
http://mac360.com/2013/11/icloud-is...eds-to-do-to-make-it-work-and-make-it-better/
To add insult to injury, Sync Services is still available for Windows, including Windows 8, so you could sync using VM like Parallels, etc.
Totally ridiculous!
"Heres a good example. I use iCloud to sync up Calendar, Contacts, Keychain, Email accounts, bookmarks and more between Macs, iPhone, and iPad."
"Invariably, something goes wonky at least once a week leaving me with duplicates to delete or something not working today when it did yesterday."
http://mac360.com/2013/11/icloud-is...eds-to-do-to-make-it-work-and-make-it-better/
To add insult to injury, Sync Services is still available for Windows, including Windows 8, so you could sync using VM like Parallels, etc.
Totally ridiculous!
Ugh, USB syncing would just never happen often enough for it to be practical for me. I almost never connect my computer to my iPhone.
Well to be fair if we are talking security, syncing to a usb is also not allowed, especially if we are talking U.S. Government. But I know what you are saying.
It's so hilarious how things always get blown up and over exaggerated just to increase hit count. I do exactly that, multiple macs, ipad, iphone, etc with every possible sync option turned on and nothing has ever borked up. Not denying there can be problems, but if it was as bad as people here try to make it sound like it is, that would be totally impossible.
Did you read the Macworld article?
When the Macworld cheering section ("never say anything bad about Apple") publishes a pretty harsh criticism, you know it's bad...
Here's how I got around it
How to back up Calendars and Contacts via USB when running Mavericks
Ive been waiting for someone to create an app to do this but to no avail. There are many reasons why people dont want to be forced to use iCloud to back up Calendars and Contacts. Finally I got tired of waiting. Heres how I somewhat inelegantly got around the problem. I figure if I back them up when going out of town or whenever I feel the need, this should work fine till a better solution comes along.
1) Using Disk Utility, create a partition of about a dozen GB or so. You can do this without erasing any data provided theres room on your drive. I did it on a separate computer from the one I use all the time because I dont have the free space.
2) Install Snow Leopard and update it to 10.6.8. Then install Mountain Lion 10.8 over that. Update to the latest version of Mountain Lion (10.8.5)
3) Go ahead and update to the latest version of iTunes. Sync services will still work as long as youre running Mountain Lion and youll have the Info button available to sync your calendar and contacts.
4) Important: Connect your phone to your Mac thats running Mavericks. Run iTunes and back up the phone.
5) Now you have to take your Calendar and Address Book folders from your Mavericks drive or partition and copy them into the same locations on the Mountain Lion partition. I just put them on a flash drive to transfer to my other computer that Im using for this procedure.
6) Go to your user home folder. If Library isnt showing (its sometimes invisible, sometimes not. Im not sure why it varies), hold down the option key as you click the Go menu item in Finder, and Library will show there so you can select it. Make it easy on yourself for future updates by putting an alias of Library on your Mountain Lions desktop.
7) Copy the Calendar folder thats in Users/~/Library.
8) Open Users/~/Library/Application Support. Inside it youll find an AddressBook folder. Copy that.
9) Now copy those two folders into the corresponding locations in the Mountain Lion library folder. When you run the Calendar it'll initially show up blank, but then a progress bar will appear saying "updating calendars" and when it's done it'll be all there.
10) Now you can plug in your phone or iPad, boot iTunes, and select the Info tab and use as you used to. Select the options to replace the calendar and contacts next time you sync. Then go ahead and sync it. Itll warn you when you go to sync it that its already synced with another computer and that itll erase whats on it. Thats why you did a backup immediately before.
11) Now your calendar and contacts on your iPhone should be up to date and synced with your copies on your Mavericks computer. Eject the phone, connect it again to your Mavericks volume, turn on iTunes, and select Restore Backup. It should be just like before, only your Calendar and Contacts should be synced.
Of course all these hoops wont have to be jumped through every time. From now on you should just be able to backup the iphone in Mav, copy the Calendar and Addressbook folders to the Mountain Lion partition and then sync there, then switch back to Mav and restore backup. It wont mess with your now-up-to-date Calendar or Contacts because Mavericks doesnt affect them!
The first time I did this I backed up my playlists and music and such and it was a little cumbersome getting it all to work without losing bits and having to restore them. But once I got through that first hurdle it works perfectly. I suspect I could have avoided the problem by copying my iTunes folder to the Mountain Lion partition before proceeding with the first sync, but I didnt think of it. But now it works fine, syncing as it should in both directions (putting new stuff from the iPhone into Cal & Contacts on the Mini, and vice-versa). Hopefully Apple will soon see the error if its ways and this wont be necessary in the future. For now, though, its a welcome workaround.
How to back up Calendars and Contacts via USB when running Mavericks
Ive been waiting for someone to create an app to do this but to no avail. There are many reasons why people dont want to be forced to use iCloud to back up Calendars and Contacts. Finally I got tired of waiting. Heres how I somewhat inelegantly got around the problem. I figure if I back them up when going out of town or whenever I feel the need, this should work fine till a better solution comes along.
1) Using Disk Utility, create a partition of about a dozen GB or so. You can do this without erasing any data provided theres room on your drive. I did it on a separate computer from the one I use all the time because I dont have the free space.
2) Install Snow Leopard and update it to 10.6.8. Then install Mountain Lion 10.8 over that. Update to the latest version of Mountain Lion (10.8.5)
3) Go ahead and update to the latest version of iTunes. Sync services will still work as long as youre running Mountain Lion and youll have the Info button available to sync your calendar and contacts.
4) Important: Connect your phone to your Mac thats running Mavericks. Run iTunes and back up the phone.
5) Now you have to take your Calendar and Address Book folders from your Mavericks drive or partition and copy them into the same locations on the Mountain Lion partition. I just put them on a flash drive to transfer to my other computer that Im using for this procedure.
6) Go to your user home folder. If Library isnt showing (its sometimes invisible, sometimes not. Im not sure why it varies), hold down the option key as you click the Go menu item in Finder, and Library will show there so you can select it. Make it easy on yourself for future updates by putting an alias of Library on your Mountain Lions desktop.
7) Copy the Calendar folder thats in Users/~/Library.
8) Open Users/~/Library/Application Support. Inside it youll find an AddressBook folder. Copy that.
9) Now copy those two folders into the corresponding locations in the Mountain Lion library folder. When you run the Calendar it'll initially show up blank, but then a progress bar will appear saying "updating calendars" and when it's done it'll be all there.
10) Now you can plug in your phone or iPad, boot iTunes, and select the Info tab and use as you used to. Select the options to replace the calendar and contacts next time you sync. Then go ahead and sync it. Itll warn you when you go to sync it that its already synced with another computer and that itll erase whats on it. Thats why you did a backup immediately before.
11) Now your calendar and contacts on your iPhone should be up to date and synced with your copies on your Mavericks computer. Eject the phone, connect it again to your Mavericks volume, turn on iTunes, and select Restore Backup. It should be just like before, only your Calendar and Contacts should be synced.
Of course all these hoops wont have to be jumped through every time. From now on you should just be able to backup the iphone in Mav, copy the Calendar and Addressbook folders to the Mountain Lion partition and then sync there, then switch back to Mav and restore backup. It wont mess with your now-up-to-date Calendar or Contacts because Mavericks doesnt affect them!
The first time I did this I backed up my playlists and music and such and it was a little cumbersome getting it all to work without losing bits and having to restore them. But once I got through that first hurdle it works perfectly. I suspect I could have avoided the problem by copying my iTunes folder to the Mountain Lion partition before proceeding with the first sync, but I didnt think of it. But now it works fine, syncing as it should in both directions (putting new stuff from the iPhone into Cal & Contacts on the Mini, and vice-versa). Hopefully Apple will soon see the error if its ways and this wont be necessary in the future. For now, though, its a welcome workaround.
I bailed
I decided because I use Outlook so I have two issues with syncing with my i-devices, I reverted back to ML.
It was painful to an extent. Time Machine failed to restore things properly, tried it twice, mainly applications and some data. This is to be expected going back and after running Mavericks for over a month.
I ended up dumping manually most of my apps from my old drive, Also had to manually move application data from the library folder (from the root and also from my profile directory, this is how I fixed Adobe apps that failed to move over) Also had to re-install Ilife to get iPhoto working again, then had to restore my iPhoto library from a backup previous to the update.
The other unusual thing is all of my doc icons or apps were still pointing to the old mavericks drive. i have a macpro so the old Mavericks drive was still online. I ended up physically pulling that drive out of the machine (only after copying it in its entirety to a folder on my data drive). Only then did some of my doc icons go missing, so had to repopulate that.
I think after about 4 hours I am back in business with ML. I plan on staying it for a while. Free isn't always better!
I decided because I use Outlook so I have two issues with syncing with my i-devices, I reverted back to ML.
It was painful to an extent. Time Machine failed to restore things properly, tried it twice, mainly applications and some data. This is to be expected going back and after running Mavericks for over a month.
I ended up dumping manually most of my apps from my old drive, Also had to manually move application data from the library folder (from the root and also from my profile directory, this is how I fixed Adobe apps that failed to move over) Also had to re-install Ilife to get iPhoto working again, then had to restore my iPhoto library from a backup previous to the update.
The other unusual thing is all of my doc icons or apps were still pointing to the old mavericks drive. i have a macpro so the old Mavericks drive was still online. I ended up physically pulling that drive out of the machine (only after copying it in its entirety to a folder on my data drive). Only then did some of my doc icons go missing, so had to repopulate that.
I think after about 4 hours I am back in business with ML. I plan on staying it for a while. Free isn't always better!