Camera: people's perception

[Lau]

My previous phone was a Sony Ericsson that had a much higher megapixel count (I forget exactly what it was but it took huge photos), had flash, took video, etc. All very impressive for a phone, but the iPhone takes much nicer looking photos than it did. They were technically better on the SE but were lacking something. An iPhone photo is a bit like a Polaroid – not as good quality as a sharp 35mm picture but has a certain appealing look to it.

I thought I'd use my Sony Ericsson phone camera much more than I did – actually, even the best phone camera still isn't a patch on my proper camera. I'd still rather use a real camera for decent shots and so, for me, having a phone camera that takes interesting shots with a nice quality to them is more important than technical specs.

What's also interesting is that it takes universally good shots with no settings whatsoever – other phones I've had have had tons of settings to fiddle with to get a good shot, whereas the iPhone one just seems to work.

 

[TonyHoyle]

They were technically better on the SE but were lacking something. An iPhone photo is a bit like a Polaroid – not as good quality as a sharp 35mm picture but has a certain appealing look to it.

I'd be surprised at that unless there's *huge* variation in the iphone cameras, or your SE was plain broken.

I find the iphone image unacceptable even for casual snapshots... and I'm no expert, I'd just like to decorate a facebook page occasionally. Just taking one now with the iphone fixed to a single spot (to eliminate shake) the result is blurry and horribly pixelated - competely unacceptable even for online use.

 

[strangefate]

It's funny that despite what the thread starter posted, some people still said "get a dedicated camera".

This go around, the iPhone is subsidized as we all know, so let's call it the $500+ phone it is. A $500+ phone should have a better camera than the iPhone has. See: Sony and Nokia.

I don't agree with the minimum 5MP, but rather a minimum 3MP. I thought this way when the first iPhone was unveiled: 2MP was good but is at that point just before a phone becomes a real camera and it was pretty disappointing.

It has now become commonplace for phones even lower than the iPhone's class to have better than a 2MP camera (and it is good quality for 2MP, and I understand megapixels aren't everything)

Has anyone else made a 4x6 print from their iPhone? It doesn't look that great.

One more megapixel, Apple. Just one would have been nice.

 

[Lau]

I'd be surprised at that unless there's *huge* variation in the iphone cameras, or your SE was plain broken.

I find the iphone image unacceptable even for casual snapshots... and I'm no expert, I'd just like to decorate a facebook page occasionally. Just taking one now with the iphone fixed to a single spot (to eliminate shake) the result is blurry and horribly pixelated - competely unacceptable even for online use.

I suppose a lot of it is matter of opinion if it's about the feel of the images.

I just remember being disappointed with the SE shots – they just seemed flat and dull (although I was impressed by the technical specs behind them) but although I'm underwhelmed by the technical specs of the iPhone camera, I've been pleased with the look of a lot more of the shots from my iPhone.

Having said that, as I said before, I pretty much carry my proper camera with me everywhere, so having a phone camera that takes interesting but smaller shots is more important to me, as is not sacrificing the cost/slimness/etc of the phone. If I didn't always carry a camera, maybe I would feel differently. For me, though, no phone camera lives up to the quality I'd want in most photos, which is why I carry a separate camera everywhere.

I know other similar priced phones have 'better' cameras, as strangefate points out above, but they aren't having to cost for a multitouch screen and so on. Presumably Apple know what they're doing, and have balanced specs vs price vs other features. If the camera was what was putting everyone off buying, they would have put a better one in. As it happens, people seem to want a cheaper phone – hence the price reduction and the same camera.

 

[The Phazer]

I know other similar priced phones have 'better' cameras, as strangefate points out above, but they aren't having to cost for a multitouch screen and so on. Presumably Apple know what they're doing, and have balanced specs vs price vs other features. If the camera was what was putting everyone off buying, they would have put a better one in. As it happens, people seem to want a cheaper phone – hence the price reduction and the same camera.

Much cheaper phones have far superior cameras too.

Ultimately the main thing phone cameras are used for is taking quick snapshots on nights out when people are too drunk to be wanting to carry round an SLR. This means it's either indoors or dark.

The iPhone is one of the worst camera phones in the market for performance in low light. That's why it needs fixing.

I really do think Apple made the classic falacy of listening too much to message boards when planning the 3G and not enough to potential customers. Because when I talk to people about why they didn't buy an iPhone I get the same answers over and over again. Rubbish camera, no proper bluetooth, no MMS. Over and over and over again. Nobody ever mentioned lack of 3G or GPS.

Phazer

 

[adamerr]

Rubbish camera, no proper bluetooth, no MMS. Over and over and over again

i agree only with the bluetooth part.
honestly, file transfer isnt that hard to add into a phone.

 

[alFR]

Just taking one now with the iphone fixed to a single spot (to eliminate shake) the result is blurry and horribly pixelated - competely unacceptable even for online use.

Mine's nowhere near that bad. Maybe yours is broken?

 

[reboad]

Good camera would be a big plus on the iPhone.

At the moment I have an se w850i with a 2mpxl camera, which I think is actually worse than the iphone's, to take the moments. Sure wouldn't hurt to have a better one with you, since this guy can take pics only when the sun is out, which is kinda a problem with the iphone too. When I'm actually out to take pictures I bring my dSLR, and since I can't put it in my pocket it's with me only at those moments.

 

[calculus]

Ultimately the main thing phone cameras are used for is taking quick snapshots on nights out when people are too drunk to be wanting to carry round an SLR. This means it's either indoors or dark.

I use my iPhone camera a lot. I have never used it in the way that you describe.

I really do think Apple made the classic falacy of listening too much to message boards when planning the 3G and not enough to potential customers. Because when I talk to people about why they didn't buy an iPhone I get the same answers over and over again. Rubbish camera, no proper bluetooth, no MMS. Over and over and over again. Nobody ever mentioned lack of 3G or GPS.

Phazer

Actually I think that you may have made the 'classic falacy' of assuming that you and you friends are representative of the wider iPhone market.

I could be wrong of course...

 

[The Phazer]

Mine's nowhere near that bad. Maybe yours is broken?

It will depend on how much light there is. Because there's no manual exposure control the shutter speed slows down significantly to let more light in if it's dark, and hence any pictures become very blurry.

The poor low light performance exaccerbates this.

Phazer

 

[The Phazer]

I use my iPhone camera a lot. I have never used it in the way that you describe.

Actually I think that you may have made the 'classic falacy' of assuming that you and you friends are representative of the wider iPhone market.

I could be wrong of course...

The amount of MMS messages sent in the UK (more are sent on a Friday and Saturday night than the rest of the week put together) strongly suggests you are.

There's a reason every other manufacturer in the market got a flash in their phones years ago.

Phazer

 

[adamerr]

The amount of MMS messages sent in the UK (more are sent on a Friday and Saturday night than the rest of the week put together) strongly suggests you are.

There's a reason every other manufacturer in the market got a flash in their phones years ago.

Phazer

um.
why are you using MMS to represent the need for flash in an iPhone.
no offence intended, but there are plenty of things you can send with MMS besides pictures, and anyway, people may have these pictures already stored in their phone and are sending them at night afte rthey have been requested to.
you have to considered the variables.

 

[needthephone]

Totally and utterly disagree.

I take a alot of photos and would never use a mobile phone, no matter how many Mp's-its not about MP's with phones. They are useless cameras, period.

Not just saying this as I am an iphone fan but honestly its the last feature I looked for, in fact I wouldn't care if it didn't have a camera at all (unless they could put an SLR into it without effecting the dimensions)

With that tiny weenzy little bit of glass there is no real point,. The more Mp
s the more noise and there is only so much you can squeeze out of a tiny lens. As for flash. I have one on my Nokia 6280 and its a white led which puts out no flash.

 

[WhySoSerious]

I agree with the person who said the iPhone camera is good enough for those unplanned surprise photo desires. Who the heck needs to print out a poster on photopaper of a picture they weren't planning, and had to take in a matter of moments rather than take a minute to pull your real camera out of a bag and set it up? I for one don't want to pay $100 more for an iPhone with a 5 megapixel camera; I've got a nice, thin and portable but high quality, 5 megapixel digital camera that works when I want to take "real" pictures.

and i suppose you carry that awesome 5mp camera with you everywhere, just like you do your cell phone, huh?

oh, you don't? well what happens when you want to take a quality pic or capture something that unexpecidly happens around you? Oh, i know......you'll get in your car, drive through traffic for 30 minutes till you get home, grab your 5mp camera, drive 30 minutes back to the scene, and take the.....whoops, opportunity passed.

yeah, i don't see that happening.

just think of all the news-worthy events that happen around people on a daily basis, in a spur of the moment situation! how many have cameras? almost none. if you look over CNN or MSNBC, you see tons of stories where "such-n-such person captured this on his/her cell phone moments ago!".

don't kid yourself......you don't pack your dedicated camera around NEAR as much as your cell phone.......NO ONE does, not even a professional photographer.

 

[adamerr]

and i suppose you carry that awesome 5mp camera with you everywhere, just like you do your cell phone, huh?

oh, you don't? well what happens when you want to take a quality pic or capture something that unexpecidly happens around you? Oh, i know......you'll get in your car, drive through traffic for 30 minutes till you get home, grab your 5mp camera, drive 30 minutes back to the scene, and take the.....whoops, opportunity passed.

yeah, i don't see that happening.

just think of all the news-worthy events that happen around people on a daily basis, in a spur of the moment situation! how many have cameras? almost none. if you look over CNN or MSNBC, you see tons of stories where "such-n-such person captured this on his/her cell phone moments ago!".

don't kid yourself......you don't pack your dedicated camera around NEAR as much as your cell phone.......NO ONE does, not even a professional photographer.

love the attempt at sarcasm.
didnt pull it off though, sorry.
2MP is fine to take spur of the moment photos.
go and buy a nokia N95 if you want a high quality camera..
i think you are forgetting that the iPhone is designed to be a multimedia phone... not a camera phone.......

 

[WhySoSerious]

It's funny that despite what the thread starter posted, some people still said "get a dedicated camera".

.

yeah, you caught that too? LOL

looks like a lot of people either:

A. can't read and interpret correctly
or
B. want to talk about themselves and go off on their own topic

 

[WhySoSerious]

Presumably Apple know what they're doing, and have balanced specs vs price vs other features. If the camera was what was putting everyone off buying, they would have put a better one in. As it happens, people seem to want a cheaper phone – hence the price reduction and the same camera.

that's a very poor way to view things if you are a consumer and and producer of goods.

who doesn't want cheaper goods? don't you want to buy a Mercedes at a cheaper cost? don't you want to buy a new house at a cheaper cost? don't you want to buy gas at a cheaper cost? don't you want to buy movie tickets at a cheaper cost? don't you want an iphone data plan at a cheaper cost?

i could go on forever and ever! everyone wants a cheaper this and cheaper that...the iphone is no exception. so does that mean since people want a cheaper iphone, that apple should make their product cheaper? or exxon should water down their gas to make it cheaper? or ATT make the iphone plan cheaper but take away unlimited data usage to achieve it? or Mercedes take all their gadgets and airbags out to make it cheaper?

come on now......what you say makes NO sense. no bussiness model of anyones should be to make a cheap product so customers can get what they always want at a cheap price. in effect, it could be more harmful than good.

 

[needthephone]

The thing is I don't WANT to take photos all the time. Only when I need to take them. What's the big fascination.

Honestly I wouldn't care if a phone didn't have a camera. It's at the bottom of my feature set. That's what I think. You don't agree and you want a great camera on your iphone, so I'm disappointed for you. Get another phone then but show me one that's a decent camera then and not just marketing spin.. You did ask what different people wanted after all, I'm just telling you that I don't need a camera on my phone. ...You need light with a camera, a decent glass area not a pathetic few mm square.

 

[WhySoSerious]

go and buy a nokia N95 if you want a high quality camera..
i think you are forgetting that the iPhone is designed to be a multimedia phone... not a camera phone.......

you should read the OP...because it clearly states that i'm not looking for a dedicated camera. that's not the point at all.

 

[needthephone]

The thing about these converged devices they are trying to be all things to all men.

I honestly believe that a camera on a mobile phone is only useful for taking snaps of your mates in a bar. Its physically not possible to have a decent lens unless the phone becomes huge,

 

[WhySoSerious]

The thing about these converged devices they are trying to be all things to all men.

I honestly believe that a camera on a mobile phone is only useful for taking snaps of your mates in a bar. Its physically not possible to have a decent lens unless the phone becomes huge,

i agree somewhat.

first of all, a cell camera has proven it's more than just for bar pictures. people use it to capture history...news worthy events....not just bar pics. this isn't 1998 anymore....technology has advanced quite a bit and people use video capture to add to the mass media news on a daily basis. in fact, i think one of the last major school shootings was captured live ONLY by a cell phone. hmmm.....guess it wasn't an iphone because it was done with video.

second, a cell phone isn't designed to be the best camera out there or even replace dedicated camera's. BUT, what's the problem with including the BEST camera hardware available for cell phone into the iphone? are you saying 2mp is the best cell phone camera equipment out there on the market? if not, then why can't a $500+ phone put it in?

 

[Lau]

WhySoSerious, I think you're getting frustrated because people aren't all agreeing with you. The people who are posting other viewpoints have read your first post, and they're just putting across their viewpoint.

I would rather have a reduction in cost and/or better (other) features in a phone than a higher quality camera, because I personally carry a 12MP little Canon with me everywhere I go which takes incredible photos. If I have my phone, I have my Canon as well.

everyone wants a cheaper this and cheaper that...the iphone is no exception. so does that mean since people want a cheaper iphone, that apple should make their product cheaper?

You can't have a 10MP camera, a HD video camera, touchscreen, satellite navigation, sandwich maker, etc, etc jammed into a mobile phone without it being hugely expensive and/or huge, right? People aren't going to buy it if it costs £1000. So there has to be a compromise. Apple's compromise is to make it the price it is, concentrate on making it a great multimedia device, and include a 2MP camera. I'm saying I personally agree with this decision. I am, in fact, saying I prefer this, as I don't use a mobile phone camera as my exclusive camera. It's been handy at times for emailing a photo to someone, and has worked just fine the way it is, and I've taken some photos with it that I'm pleased with. I would resent having to pay more for an iPhone with a higher MP camera, because I wouldn't use its capabilities. That's my opinion. It differs from yours, that's all.

 

[179202]

"Best Possible Equipment" is called "Actual Digital Camera". No cellphone camera will ever be able to replace an actual digital camera. I'm not an expert either; but I do know enough that your spec desires for your purpose desires does not mesh. When the moment hits, you don't want it to go away while your cellphone starts up the camera, charges the flash, and focuses the lens. The iPhone's camera is fine for on-the-spur snapshots. Anything beyond that and you really should be considering a dedicated camera; most companies make very pocketable cameras.

No, 'best possible equipment in my cell phone' means 'best possible equipment in my cellphone'. I'm a photographer and I don't carry a camera with me everywhere I go. The Sony k800i was great for spur of the moment pics on a night out, 3.2 MP, flash, settings adjust (colour correction, black and white etc). But the phone just isn't as good as the iPhone, hence why I use the iPhone.
BUT! that doesn't mean to say I wouldn't want a better camera on a phone. The iphone camera is awful. Truly truly awful. Pictures taken on it only look good on the phone itself, anyone who thinks otherwise is blind or kidding themselves. For me, this is one HUGE flaw in an otherwise perfect phone. If apple had upgraded the cam for 3G, i'd be there in a flash, but no...they simply add the functionality to get email at last 4 seconds quicker. I'm happy I can even get it on my darn phone!

Here's hoping that the next iPhone has a darn good camera. I'm tired of telling friends to go back and huddle up for a pic cos the bloody iPhone blurred it due to its crap camera!

Dan x

 

[179202]

love the attempt at sarcasm.
didnt pull it off though, sorry.
2MP is fine to take spur of the moment photos.
go and buy a nokia N95 if you want a high quality camera..
i think you are forgetting that the iPhone is designed to be a multimedia phone... not a camera phone.......

multimedia...what a word.

Multimedia: A combination of multiple media types, including text, graphics, animation, audio and video.

kind of points out that it should show and take good photos and videos. It's a multimedia phone right? The camera is the last place the iPhone needs to shape up on to be many peoples perfect phones. You know you have a problem with your phones camera when you have to make excuses for it, or say 'well, I wouldn't want a good camera on it because...'. That's just retarded.

i don;'t think the arguement here is what the iPhone was designed to be, only a vent at the awful-ness of the iPhone camera.
Anyone with a brain cell can see the $5 phone in the bargain bin has a better camera.

 

[The Phazer]

um.
why are you using MMS to represent the need for flash in an iPhone.

Indeed. There's also vide...oh, wait.

no offence intended, but there are plenty of things you can send with MMS besides pictures, and anyway, people may have these pictures already stored in their phone and are sending them at night afte rthey have been requested to.
you have to considered the variables.

You're having to stretch the RDF to rediculous lengths here.

Phazer