Can A 2002 G4 Power Mac Run OS9? (Yes, Solved)

Discussion in 'PowerPC Macs' started by part12studios, May 17, 2016.

  1. part12studios macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 19, 2014
    #1
    Hi everyone,

    I was looking on CL and found a good G4 tower from 2002 (1.25ghz) to run some classic power mac software for music engineering.. and yes I know it's 2016 :)

    There were some pre intel (possibly OSX) programs that I'd like to run on classic hardware (part nostalgia, part minimalism, part it's $60, part I'm a geek)

    So some googling shows that OSX came out around 2001.. This is a 2002 to so almost certainly the OS on it will be some early version of OSX. Restore disk is included.. but I know that apple is in(famous) for making OS versions very specific for hardware so maybe it's simply not possible to install an older OS and have drivers for the newer hardware.

    That said.. MAYBE since it's still a powermac.. not intel based.. OS9/powermac software would still run in OSX or is the OS itself too radical a departure from OS9 and earlier?
     
  2. bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    Kentucky
    #3
    A dual 1.25ghz is going to be a Mirrored Drive Door model(MDD). The MDD models WITHOUT Firewire 800 can run OS 9 natively, with the caveat that there is a special OS 9.2.2 build for them. Aside from platform support, the standard Radeon 9000 video card will give issues in particular if the drivers are not installed.

    If you want to install OS 9, you need to either track down a set of original restore disks(you have to run the complete set, which installs OS X 10.2 and then dumps in the correct system folder) or install the Mac OS 9 Lives Universal Installer. The latter can be found on Macintosh Garden, and I think the the former(a set of four or five disks from memory) is on there as well.
     
  3. part12studios, May 17, 2016
    Last edited: May 17, 2016

    part12studios thread starter macrumors newbie

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    May 19, 2014
    #4
    this is the unit.. they don't show the front but it looks like it's the same based on spec comparison

    https://southcoast.craigslist.org/sys/5556851043.html

    i understand there was a boot "classic" mode but would that be sketchy? I'm trying to use usb / firewire hardware with the machine so obviously drivers / software compatibility would be important.
    --- Post Merged, May 17, 2016 ---
    yea it's the FW800 version.. i just checked.

    but i did find this one.. a lot slower.. but.. OS9 https://providence.craigslist.org/syd/5575356351.html and $50..

    @bunnspecial but you're saying that the FW800 version could run dedicated OS9 with that OS9 lives installer? I could certainly track down the software and go that route. nothing on the HD i would care about saving.
     
  4. MikeatOSX macrumors regular

    MikeatOSX

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    Austria
  5. eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

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    #6
    You can go about this two ways…

    Booting into OS9 which will require an MDD with FW400 or an older G4.

    Using OS9 as Classic inside OS X.

    The second option is doable only up to OS X 10.4.11 Tiger. Apple removed all support for running OS9 inside OS X with Leopard, OS X 10.5.x.
     
  6. Dronecatcher macrumors 68000

    Dronecatcher

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    Lincolnshire, UK
    #7
    The MDD is the better deal but alas, it can't boot into OS9 - only run it within Tiger which can introduce compatibility issues.
    There might be a possibility to flash the ROM to dupe it and/or employ some firmware trickery:

    https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/24358-fw800-now-running-os-9/

    I'd do your research before you commit....or simply buy both :)
     
  7. LightBulbFun macrumors 6502a

    LightBulbFun

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    Nov 17, 2013
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    London UK
    #8
    I would not recommend Doing the ROM downgrade as it Breaks the Wifi APX slot. it does however let my USB Ports run in USB 2 mode... (theres another way to run OS9.2.2 on unsupported systems even iBook G4s and the like) https://www.thinkclassic.org/viewtopic.php?id=46 this is well worth a Read heh, the Macintosh Garden has a OS9.2.2 install image for such systems as well
     
  8. MysticCow macrumors 6502a

    MysticCow

    Joined:
    May 27, 2013
    #9
    Running OS 9 through the Classic layer will, paradoxically, be FASTER on a dual processor G4 than running it natively. The Classic layer will get that second processor up and running all the time instead of just the times where programs call on the second processor.
     
  9. catzilla macrumors 6502

    catzilla

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    Dec 15, 2013
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    Rhode Island
    #10
    It might be worth a ride to this place: https://boston.craigslist.org/sob/syd/5555819170.html
    They had a bunch of old machines and let you boot them up, they are some what flexible on the prices.
     
  10. jbarley macrumors 68030

    jbarley

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    Vancouver Island
    #11
    Looks like my kinda joint, wish we had a similar establishment.:(
     
  11. G4fanboy macrumors regular

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    Andalucia Spain
    #12
    There is a method to install OS9 on a FW-800 MDD, Erik. And now it doesn't need a firmware downgrade. Thanks to iMic the author of LeopardAssist we can even boot a FW800 via an special and unique install CD.

    Go MacOS9Lives! for the latest and more capable OS9 install disk in the world.
     
  12. eyoungren, May 18, 2016
    Last edited: May 18, 2016

    eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

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    #13
    Hmm…yeah I know. But for the average user this is not something they are going to be aware of. OP's status lists him as a newbie so I made my comment with that in mind.

    Even if OP has been around Macs since before Apple became a business I have no way to know that - unless they mention it. Tossing that in to the mix only serves to confuse people if they have no idea what I (we) are talking about. And I'd rather someone who may not be completely familiar with Macs buy the right kind of Mac for their purpose then have them buy the wrong Mac and try and make it work while getting confused and frustrated.

    For us, this is something relatively simple. But we aren't average. The whole PowerPC community is no longer average because the average people moved on to Intel and the tinkerers (us) stayed behind. You have to consider that when new people come in asking questions.
     
  13. bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    Kentucky
    #14
    I tend to take this outlook also, which is why I'm always careful to qualify my statements if there are hacks or or other ways around it.

    The OS 9 hacks on the FW800 are relatively recent discoveries(and I give the OS 9 Lives folks a lot of credit for discovering and making those workable solutions) but at the same time I think it's best to not get into nit-picking detail.
     
  14. eyoungren, May 18, 2016
    Last edited: May 18, 2016

    eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

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    #15
    Exactly.

    Once you know or can realistically guess at the experience level of the member you can go from there. Getting into the details when someone has no idea what you're talking about can send them running off with a bad taste in their mouth.

    I do the same in the jailbreak forums. People ask if they can downgrade. In general the answer is no, but it is possible if you have the right phone, the right iOS, are jailbroken already and can follow involved instructions.

    But that's not the average user that comes in to the jailbreak forum. So for them the answer is no, you can't.
     
  15. G4fanboy, May 18, 2016
    Last edited: May 18, 2016

    G4fanboy macrumors regular

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    Andalucia Spain
    #16
    You only have to download the Universal Install from http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2143.msg11047.html#msg11047 called also

    Mac OS 9.2.2 Universal Install - Unsupported G4s with Modified iMic ROM

    To explain it as I remember. Apple made OS9 for MDD as a restore disk once you had OSX installed. We improved that making a disk for all bootable Macs even when apple didn't do a disk for those first MDD. That is the other universal install for all the official supported machines. http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2109.0.html called also

    Mac OS 9.2.2 Universal Install - ISO CD Image for all G3s & G4s - Most Popular

    Then we improved that disk containing the latest extensions with the Modified iMic ROM that allowed to install OS9 on iBooks G4, MDD FW800 and even in some ALU PowerBooks. We are having test for the first Xserve and Minis.

    All the hacking involved for booting deeply unsupported machines past the MDD with open firmware tricks is not needed for MDD 800. Just burn the first link and your machine will install OS9 as if it were a Quicksilver.

    Please folks, saying that FW 800 OS9 is hard today is just like saying PPC hasn't an optimized video player because CorePlayer was hacked only 2 months ago. No more misinformation. Even for newcomers with 0 skills, they can install OS9 on MDD using the first link. Assuming they know how to install Mac OS.
     
  16. eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

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    #17
    OK. So it's easy.

    Are there any downsides? Short-term? Long term? What if you want to remove OS9 completely?
     
  17. G4fanboy, May 18, 2016
    Last edited: May 18, 2016

    G4fanboy macrumors regular

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    Andalucia Spain
    #18
    It is just an MacOS, if you want to wipe it later you can. But you shouldn't ;)

    You just need a Firewire800 to Fw400 cable if you are already using FW400 drives/hardware on OSX. If you haven't FW drives/hardware you are OK.

    Model Specific Hardware Notes:
    1. Apple Power Macintosh G4 1.25 DP (FW 800)
    (Identifiers: M8570, M8840LL/A, Firewire 800, PowerMac3,6)
    Firewire 800 ports are seen as FW400 ports. FW400 ports are Not recognized, all other hardware functions as normal

    2. Apple Power Macintosh G4 1.42 DP (FW 800) (Identifiers: M8570, M8840LL/A, Firewire 800, PowerMac3,6)
    Firewire 800 ports are seen as FW400 ports. FW400 ports are Not recognized, all other hardware functions as normal

    3. Apple PowerBook G4 867 12" (Al) (Identifiers: A1010, M8760LL/A, PowerBook6,1)
    Sound comes thru headphones, but not speakers
     
  18. bobesch macrumors 6502a

    bobesch

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    Oct 21, 2015
    Location:
    Kiel, Germany
    #19
    Time for holidays, a big van and the adventure may start?!

    (Over the years I've been frequently on the road across the country to visit my family and there had been plenty of 'occasions' along the way. Good fun. But to be honest - the distances here are nothing compared to the continent of North America)
     
  19. bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    May 3, 2014
    Location:
    Kentucky
    #20
    There's a saying I've heard more than once that I think is probably very true.

    In America, 200 years is considered "old" for a building
    In Europe, 200 miles is considered a "long" drive

    I have the great pleasure of interacting with a lot of international students who come to my work, and I've talked to more than one who wanted to drive to Los Angeles for a "weekend trip" without realizing that it would probably take that long just to get there.

    On the other hand, I think nothing of making a day trip to Indianapolis or Cincinnati. I've made deals on Macs in both of these locations(and a little past), and have done nothing more than leave work an hour or two early to make the trip in the evening. I actually am planning to drive to Cincinnati in the next couple of days to buy a couple of iMac G3s, and also need to go to the Urbana, IL area one evening next week to pick up a transmission for my MG :)
     
  20. eyoungren macrumors P6

    eyoungren

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    Aug 31, 2011
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    Phoenix • 85037
    #21
    It's funny how locale can change things.

    I lived in Southern California for 20 years. A 45 minute to hour trip is nothing. Everyone does it all the time. No big deal. From home to work my commute every day was an hour and 40 minutes (50 mins. each way). My wife went 30 minutes to her job in the other direction. Some times it was me dropping her off at work (30 mins.) then driving to work (30 mins. + 50 mins.) then leaving to pick her up from work (our house being passed twice each time) only to come back home.

    You do that in SoCal.

    I move here to Phoenix and the locals are bitching about a 20 minute drive and how absolutely horrible traffic is!

    Really? Try driving the 91 or the Garden Grove Freeway (22) at 4pm on a Friday. Then we'll talk!
     
  21. bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    Kentucky
    #22
    Indeed I think there's a lot of truth to that. I spent a year commuting an hour(as long as traffic cooperated) in each direction daily and although it did wear on me some(esp. when I was working long days) it wasn't terrible.

    In Frankort, KY-where I grew up-there's a very distinct east and west end of town, with downtown really being dead after work hours. The main way to get between the east and west side is via the "East-west connector", which a nice 4 lane highway with three stoplights along its length and minimal other entrances/exits. The traffic is rarely very heavy(probably only in the morning and evening commuting hours) but even then doesn't back up unless there's an accident or other problem. It's about 7 miles long and has a 55mph speed limit the whole way, so depending on how you hit the lights the trip can range from right at 8 minutes to 15 minutes. I don't know how many folks I've heard saying they don't want to go to Walmart or wherever else because it's "all the way across town." In Louisville, I'm absolutely thrilled if my morning or evening commute takes 10 minutes-it can happen, but only if the shortest routes are clear and I hit them just right. Otherwise, I'm easily looking at 30 minutes and 45 minutes or an hour is not unheard of(esp. if there's an event downtown).
     
  22. G4fanboy macrumors regular

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    Mar 9, 2013
    Location:
    Andalucia Spain
    #23
    Back to topic, I asked MacOS9Lives! to clear out the names and now the iMic modded ROM is called "Mac OS 9.2.2 Easy Install for Unsupported G4s - ISO CD Image"
     
  23. part12studios thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 19, 2014
    #24
    Hi everyone, sorry I went quiet on this but I was waiting for things to line up.. soooo.. yea that was a bit of a tangent.. but @G4fanboy do you know where I can get that ISO CD Image? I now have a G4 Sawtooth mac 450mhz with 706mb ram. unit has two hard drives.. 20gb and 120gb.. my plan is to make the 20gb drive the OS drive and the 120gb to be used for recording digital audio with Digital Performer..

    Both of the drives have OSX on them and are bootable.. Digital Performer 3 requires OS9 so there is no debate for me, I need OS9 and it seems the OS9Lives site is good, but the one forum thread I found that made reference to some 350mb ISO was "no longer public" so I'm trying to figure out where to find it. My account is pending approval over there so I can't post my request for more info over there.
     
  24. G4fanboy macrumors regular

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    Mar 9, 2013
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    Andalucia Spain
    #25
    All accounts are pending approval until you post something introducing yourself. Once you posted you can access DP 3 and all the downloads.

    Downloads not working have to be reported to moderators. They usually get fixed them within 2 or 3 days.
     

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